58 replies to this topic

[Bjorn Kjer]

Having found no thread on this one , except for the info on the Danny Collins thread , I look for anything on the first years , especially in Europe, untill 63 when the Sting Ray arrived.

Of course Cunningham with 2 cars and CAMORADI was at LM in 1960 and Scirocco in 62 . But did they race elsewhere ? Also did others race them ? The Roy Winkelmans team car did not seem to race more than once ?

[bradbury west]

IIRC, Sir Gawaine Baillie raced one in the UK 1958 or 59. I will check Autosports.
Roger Lund

[David McKinney]

1959, finishing third in class in the Autosport Championship for production sportscars, and also contesting the few GT races that were starting to be run in the UK

[David McKinney]

A few GIs raced them in minor German events in 1958 and 1959, giving Wolfgang Seidel and his Ferrari 250GT something to beat.
In the first year they were second and third behind Seidel in a race at Pferdsfeld, drivers’ names (and meeting date) unknown.
Sam Simpson then made FTD in the Wolfsfeld hillclimb at Bitburg on 16/11, with another Corvette second in class.
In 1959 Paul Simpson (same bloke?) was second to Seidel at Pferdsfeld on 8/3, at a meeting organised by an American club. Another American, Habersted, was placed in other German races during the year.

[fines]

It's Wolsfeld, David, only one "f" and no connection to wolves, though Pferdsfeld ("horse field") is correct!

[David McKinney]

Thanks Michael
Slip of the finger
(I knew a Bitburger would correct me if I was wrong )

[Bjorn Kjer]

Thank you for your replys.

[Jerry Entin]

Bjorn: Allen Markelson, a New York stockbroker, ran a Buck Baker prepared silver Corvette in the 1961 Tourist Trophy. I believe the combination was called the moving chicane.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

[Jerry Entin]

Bjorn:
For any Corvette enthusiast, there will be a very nice meeting to be held at the Peterson Museum

CORVETTE RACING HISTORY CELEBRATION
Tribute Dinner for Corvette Racing
at the Petersen Museum Oct 23 in Los Angeles.

Featuring a 2:00pm Panel moderated by Tim Considine
with some of the greats in Corvette history, among them:
John Fitch
Bob Bondurant
Tony DeLorenzo
Dick Guldstrand
Jim Jeffords
Bill Krause
and Corvette Racing program manager Doug Fehan
There'll also be a display of historic racing Corvettes:
from Fitch's 1960 Cunningham Le Mans car
to a current Le Mans C6.R, straight from Laguna Seca

CALL 323-930-CARS FOR TICKETS NOW!

[Bjorn Kjer]

Oh , and thanks Jerry , that would be the one I mentioned on the Danny Collins thread , instead it was Markelson smoking .......... I ought to jet over !

[Sharman]

Quote

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Bjorn: Allen Markelson, a New York stockbroker, ran a Buck Baker prepared silver Corvette in the 1961 Tourist Trophy. I believe the combination was called the moving chicane.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

Jerry
I believe that he blew an engine in practice and "stole" a replacement from a private Corvette he found somewhere in the area. He based himself at a local garage in Chichester and when we were there for the TT weekend a couple of years later the mechanics were still laughing about the way he was fending off the bemused owner with his cheque book whilst urging these same mechanics to "get that goddam engine out".
John

[Jerry Entin]

John: I have heard a story about Max Balchowsky taking a wheel and tire off a shooting brake in the parking lot and leaving a note saying " Will return after the races". I have to admit I never heard of anyone taking an engine.

[bradbury west]

Quote

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Bjorn: Allen Markelson, a New York stockbroker, ran a Buck Baker prepared silver Corvette in the 1961 Tourist Trophy. I believe the combination was called the moving chicane. all research Willem Oosthoek.

There is a photograph of this sad looking beast in Robert Barker's Motor Racing at Goodwood, page 183, captioned that it retired after 42 laps. It carries body damage to the missing o/s headlights area and is minus the front bumper/fender.
Roger Lund

[r.atlos]

Quote

Originally posted by David McKinney
A few GIs raced them in minor German events in 1958 and 1959, giving Wolfgang Seidel and his Ferrari 250GT something to beat.
In the first year they were second and third behind Seidel in a race at Pferdsfeld, drivers’ names (and meeting date) unknown.
Sam Simpson then made FTD in the Wolfsfeld hillclimb at Bitburg on 16/11, with another Corvette second in class.
In 1959 Paul Simpson (same bloke?) was second to Seidel at Pferdsfeld on 8/3, at a meeting organised by an American club. Another American, Habersted, was placed in other German races during the year.

Dates of those meetings organized by HMSC (Hesse Motor Sport Club, later to "migrate" into a German club) and ATMA (??, American Touring and Motorsport Association or something along those lines ?) are, indeed, a bit patchy.

Records from the German motoring press start with a HMSC race on June 29, 1958 (won by Seidel and his 250GT #0879GT, no other participants given). Confusion surrounds this one as it carried for some reason the "subtitle" of Wiesbaden-Erbenheim, although that has clearly been another airfield. (Pferdsfeld is, in fact, located some 30 kms from Bad Kreuznach.)

Then we have an ATMA race on March 08, 1959 what was already the "4. Pferdsfelder Flugplatzrennen"; thus, we may have missed some earlier dates. Result for "big" GTs have been as follows:

1) Wolfgang Seidel (Düsseldorf) - Ferrari 250GT #0879GT - race number 193
2) Paul Simpson (Darmstadt) - Chevrolet Corvette
3) Paul Shafter (?) - Austin Healey 100

For May 31, 1959 I have the "1. Internationales Flugplatzrennen Pferdsfeld", unfortunately without details as to results and organizer (but a high probability that it has been a HMSC event).

On March 06, 1960, we have the "5th" one (thus another ATMA event); it seems the HMSC had moved to the Nürburgring Südschleife later that year (Oct. 16, 1960).

For 1961, the 6th ATMA race on March 19 is now perfectly in line with our counting scheme while the 3rd "International" race on May 7 indicates that there must have been another HMSC event in 1960 - unless they counted their Südschleife race as the 2nd one.

A race scheduled for May 6, 1962 has been cancelled and that was it for the Pferdsfeld airfield. The HMSC moved on to Mainz-Finthen from 1964 on while ATMA somehow vanished as an organization.

[Martin Roessler]

Quote

Originally posted by r.atlos
Dates of those meetings organized by HMSC (Hesse Motor Sport Club, later to "migrate" into a German club) and ATMA (??, American Touring and Motorsport Association or something along those lines ?) are, indeed, a bit patchy.

Records from the German motoring press start with a HMSC race on June 29, 1958 (won by Seidel and his 250GT #0879GT, no other participants given). Confusion surrounds this one as it carried for some reason the "subtitle" of Wiesbaden-Erbenheim, although that has clearly been another airfield. (Pferdsfeld is, in fact, located some 30 kms from Bad Kreuznach.)

Indeed confusing because I have the program of that race and there is no mention of Seidel driving a 250GT.
The frontcover reads:

1st Wiesbaden National
Benefit Races
1.Wiesbadener Nationales
Flugplatzrennen
Sunday/Sonntag
29.6.1958
a national open event

There is no mention of the exact location but Wiesbaden Erbenheim was (not sure if it still is) an american Air Base


GT & Sport over 2001 cc

#200 Helm Gloeckler,Frankfurt BMW 507
#201 James Arthur,Wiesbaden A/Healey
#202 Leonard Kiefer,Frankfurt 300SL
#203 Redeen Williams,Bitburg A/Healey 106
#204 Karl Braun,Essen 300SL
#205 Sam Simpson,Darmstadt Corvette
#206 Bob Tappenning,Wiesbaden A/Healey 106
#207 James Walker,Wiesbaden A/Healey 106
#208Grady Clinkscales,Wiesbaden A/Healey 106
#209 Wolfgang Seidel,Duesseldorf BMW 507
#210 Dr.Bernartz 300SL

There are notes written to almost every race in the program,sometimes statistics and also comments how the cars performed.
In this particular race the owner of the program wrote (in german) :
"BMW & 300SL not cornering well (too long)"
"Austin Healeys very quick and most of all very agile"
Wolfgang Seidel -----> "crashed into the spectators with 170km/h,1 dead 5 injured"

There were no comments about the only Corvette in the race so i assume it didn't race at all.... i'm sure the guy would have had something to say about the car.
Sam Simpson is also listed as a member of the race management and a member of the HMSC

hope that helps
regards Marty

[bradbury west]

Quote

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Allen Markelson, a New York stockbroker, ran a Buck Baker prepared silver Corvette in the 1961 Tourist Trophy. I believe the combination was called the moving chicane. all research Willem Oosthoek.

Looking through Robert Barker's Goodwood book, it seems that poor Markelson struggled on worn tyres, his spares-the race tyres- being held up at the airport . His car then started to belch clouds of smoke and steam, finally being blackflagged for losing oil.
Roger Lund

[Loren Lundberg]

The Camoradi Corvette was invited to the Targa Floria, but was not shipped in time. It did arrive in time and start the Nurburgring 1000 KM until it got airborne and broke a front wheel bearing to DNF as #71.
After Le Mans, it was driven to Karlskoga Sweden and raced in the Kanonloppet (sp?) and crashed in a Swedish National Forst on its way to Modena. The engine, transmission FI and steering wheel were removed and stuffed in the team station wagon and the balance, as "last year's race car" was donated to the investigating officer. The car's invitation to the Tourist Trophy race in England went begging.

[Duncan Fox]

Loren , how have you progressed with the engine search here in N.Z? About 18 months ago I had a confirmed report of an early f.i. unit thats been here( and I was aware of) for years (like at least the early 70s') but the owner was in the U.S. when I attempted contact. I always have your search in mind when at swap meets and talking to the older car guys.
Im sure the Forum guys would like to hear the full Camoradi Corvette story it is one of the better ones!

[Bjorn Kjer]

Thanks to all for some interesting and most NOT known to me informations !

Loren , sure we would like to here some more on the CAMORADI one .

[Loren Lundberg]

Duncan, it's been a while...ever finish the McClaren?
After the crash in Sweden (car was driven to and from Modena), Wallace & Gamble salvaged the engine,
FI, transmission and steering wheel, stuffed them into the Teams 1959 For stationwagon (the very wagon that Gamble & Lilley used for orientation laps at Nurburgring) and returned to Modena.
Hans Tanner was journalist/racing, etc in and around Modena. Someone had sent a Maserati 250F to Modena for Tanner to update; Tanner bought the Corvette motor and hired Gamble and Wallasce to install it.
(Background - the other Camoradi car had cracked the fuel line out by the fuel filter at Sebring; they borrowed one from a specatator's car...did he know? Answer is unclear. This became the c

[Loren Lundberg]

Duncan, it's been a while...ever finish the McClaren?
After the crash in Sweden (car was driven to and from Modena), Wallace & Gamble salvaged the engine,
FI, transmission and steering wheel, stuffed them into the Teams 1959 For stationwagon (the very wagon that Gamble & Lilley used for orientation laps at Nurburgring) and returned to Modena.
Hans Tanner was journalist/racing, etc in and around Modena. Someone had sent a Maserati 250F to Modena for Tanner to update; Tanner bought the Corvette motor and hired Gamble and Wallasce to install it.
(Background - the other Camoradi car had cracked the fuel line out by the fuel filter at Sebring; they borrowed one from a specatator's car...did he know? Answer is unclear. This became the car that burned to the ground at Lilley's because a mechanic tried to start it, Post-Sebring, Cunningham's car reverted back to the 57/ filter mount whcih was an attachment to a stud on the Intake Manifold; Lilley's answer was to bend a piece of aluminum so the end would fit into the groove on top of the FI plenum, put in a set screw and put a radiator clamp around the filter and over the end of his strap,)
A picture of the Chevy-engined 250F appears in an April 1961 photo in a Today's Motor Sports article that referred to the car as uncontrolable due to lack of sufficient traction. In any case, a picture with the hood removed shows the "LILLEY ANTI-VIBRATION STRAP" in place. It ends up owned by John Mansell.
I contacted The Racing Driver's club in NZ, VCC of NZ, Auto News mag of NZ, Duncan Fox yourself, P & A Rinaldo, Rob Oswald, Geoffrey Penn (all Kiwis), etc. Later, Gamble provided the address for John Ohlsem, who had been the mechanic with Wallace on the Corvette - Ohlsen later worked with Shelby on the Cobra and was the gentlemen who hammered out the first coupe body.
Mansell drove the car in its 250F livery in some races, never without problems; later it would kill Mansell in a crash. The 250 F remains were purchased by people who wanted to restore the 250F; the motor was purchased by Rod Coppins.
Coppins initially had the motor in a 1938 Chevy coupe later sold to a Ron Sylvester (sp?), who is now deceased but I believe his son stil has the car.
Form there the engine went into a Ford (?) Zephyr with no good results until the next season when 8 straight exhaust headers were routed straight up through the hood, letting the engine breathe.
I ran some ads in NZ Classic Car and Beaded Wheels, seking info, engine and FI. Those ad resulted in contacts with a number of people, copies of old articles about the sedan bodies it had been in, etc.
My understanding is that after its car racing (too many 327s) was over, it transferred in BOAT racing and then into a pleasure boat. It was boat that struck an underwater object and sank, 20 or so kilometers off shore.

[David McKinney]

Quote

Originally posted by Loren Lundberg
Mansell drove the car in its 250F livery in some races, never without problems; later it would kill Mansell in a crash. The 250 F remains were purchased by people who wanted to restore the 250F; the motor was purchased by Rod Coppins.
Coppins initially had the motor in a 1938 Chevy coupe later sold to a Ron Sylvester (sp?), who is now deceased but I believe his son stil has the car.
Form there the engine went into a Ford (?) Zephyr with no good results until the next season when 8 straight exhaust headers were routed straight up through the hood, letting the engine breathe.
I ran some ads in NZ Classic Car and Beaded Wheels, seking info, engine and FI. Those ad resulted in contacts with a number of people, copies of old articles about the sedan bodies it had been in, etc.
My understanding is that after its car racing (too many 327s) was over, it transferred in BOAT racing and then into a pleasure boat. It was boat that struck an underwater object and sank, 20 or so kilometers off shore.

My NZ compatriots seem to have led you slightly astray, Loren ;)
Mansel (one 'l') was killed in a Cooper-Maserati, not this car, which was always raced in NZ as a Tec-Mec. Coppins bought it complete, and raced it in 1962 and 1963 with both single-seater (250F) bodywork and the body from an old Ferrari sportscar.
As I understand it, he transferred the engine to his Chevy coupé (1964) which then went to Ron Silvester. Coppins then raced the Zephyr-Corvette (1965) with the 'smoke-stack' exhaust pipes with a lot of success, less so the second season (1966)
So the engine can't have been in Silvester's Chevy and Coppins's Zephyr at the same time
I don't know which is correct, but I've been away from NZ for more than 20 years - maybe someone there can clarify the picture
There was, incidentally, a rumour - clearly discredited - that the Tec-Mec engine was an ex-Scarab unit

[Duncan Fox]

Loren , the good news is that although the block may be lost , I think the injection is still around. Most of the boats racing here were flat bottom hydros , and none of them had injection, they all had 2 x 4's set ups many of which I have over the years collected up and moved on . Its time to chase this injection again. I cannot find any reports of an F.I. unit in use here in N.Z.late 60's thru early 80s' other than the TecMec and a nice 65 set-up which I traded for a tired Mk 1 Ford Cortina station wagon in need of a lot of t.l.c. around 1975 (I still have the smile on my face and the unit if you need one.) What would be the chances of posting the NCRS Restorer story or another version of it? Duncan

[Jerry Entin]

Obviously the Camoradi Corvette did nor crash by itself in the middle of nowhere in Sweden. It happened after Bobby Wallace accidently fell asleep at the wheel.
all research Willem Oosthoek.

[thunder427]

Like David Mckinney,been away from NZ since 1970,but I am sure that Johnny Mansell 'rolled' the TecMec at a very ,very rainy Wigram Trophy Race,tossing it into a drainage ditch that ran along Wigrams back straight..................remember seeing photo's of at least two cars upside down in the ditch ,,OR,,, did the Tecmec spin and crash into the Timeing car parked on the 'inside' of the track on the back straight...things are a little 'Blurry' these days, but there is some 'Truth' here if somebody can refine the facts..photo's would be in the archives of the Christchurch Press or the Christchurch Star or the Star/Sun sports paper that came out on a Saturday night...................

[Milan Fistonic]

Quote

Originally posted by thunder427
Like David Mckinney,been away from NZ since 1970,but I am sure that Johnny Mansell 'rolled' the TecMec at a very ,very rainy Wigram Trophy Race,tossing it into a drainage ditch that ran along Wigrams back straight..................remember seeing photo's of at least two cars upside down in the ditch ,,OR,,, did the Tecmec spin and crash into the Timeing car parked on the 'inside' of the track on the back straight...things are a little 'Blurry' these days, but there is some 'Truth' here if somebody can refine the facts..photo's would be in the archives of the Christchurch Press or the Christchurch Star or the Star/Sun sports paper that came out on a Saturday night...................

That was at the very wet 1961 meeting.

During practice Mansel spun at Bomb Bay Corner and ended upside down in a ditch. As he was getting out of his car Bob Smith in the Super Squalo Ferrari joined him in the ditch closely followed by Bob Blackburn in a Maserati 4CLT.

It was during the race that Frank Shuter driving Pat Hoare's old Ferrari lost control on the main straight and hit a timing official's car. Thankfully the only injury was a minor blow to the back of the head suffered by Mansel.

[thunder427]

Milan Fistonic; thank you for clarifying 1961 Wigram details, I was actually there that year as my Father was involved with organising the Lap scoring and Timeing team of volnteers,no Eletronics in those days,I actually got to sit at the 'Start/Finish and assist the Flag Marshal,....Bjorn there is reference to the Tecmec in 'race results/Dunedin /Terotonga/Wiamate in the respective results , one with 'Fuel Injection/DNF,Google 'New Zealand Motor Racing' site 1960/61........................regards

[Milan Fistonic]

As David wrote, Mansel was not killed in the Tec Mec, but the car was involved in a fatal crash.

In March 1963 Coppins lost control of the car during a wet race at Pukekohe and in the resulting crash a marshal and a St John Ambulance officer died.

[thunder427]

Milan; If I remember 'rightly' the Tecmec had a very long nose cone,have I got the 'right' car ???????????????????

[Vettefinderjim]

bradbury west, on Oct 7 2008, 14:54, said:

Looking through Robert Barker's Goodwood book, it seems that poor Markelson struggled on worn tyres, his spares-the race tyres- being held up at the airport . His car then started to belch clouds of smoke and steam, finally being blackflagged for losing oil.
Roger Lund

I talked to Allen Markelson today Sept 29, 2009 and he set me straight on his 61 Corvette. He bought the car from DON ALLEN CHEVROLET in New York City in the spring of 1961. It was originally a silver with black interior, 283/315 hp fuel injection CAR WITH RPO#687 H.D. Brakes and Suspension. The car also was one of 25 made that year with the special extra large 24 gallon gas tank.

The car was shipped immediately to Charlotte to Buck Baker for preparing the car for FIA Racing at GOODWOOD. It was repainted white with blue stripes, the American Racing colors. After a trial race at Bridgehampton, Frank Dommianni replaced the RPO 687 Special factory brake lining with a new set supplied by Boeing Aircraft that they used on their air craft of the day. Boeing also supplied special Goodyear tires that wore like iron.

The car raced at GOODWOOD, the 1000 km at PARIS, and MONZA. In each race Markelson would complete about 1/2 the total laps, when the fan belt would come off and the engine would then overheat and result in a DNF. The engine never blew up, just overheat. At GOODWOOD, The #7 cylinder went dead but the engine continued until excessive oil forced the the blsack flag to be used to stop the smoking car.

More history is being gathered as it is very possible that a car here in the East Coast begging to be restored may be this very car that tried hard to beat Europes finest.

Allen plans to fly west to the Fabulous 50's Concour d'Provenance in Rancho Palos Verdes on Sunday October 25, 2009.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Thanks Jim for these interesting infos.

[Vettefinderjim]

Bjørn Kjer, on Sep 29 2009, 23:43, said:

Thanks Jim for these interesting infos.

I looked for mor info on history last night Bjorn and came up with this.

PER THE FIA GT CUP RESULTS http://www.wspr-raci...tcup1961.html#9 The car raced at GOODWOOD, car #8 on Aug 19,1961, DNF 42 laps, the 1000 km at PARIS Oct. 22, 1961 did not practice and was REJECTED FROM THE RACE, and MONZA on Sept 9, 1961, DNS.

In each race Markelson SAID TO ME he would complete about 1/2 the total laps, when the fan belt would come off and the engine would then overheat and result in a DNF. The engine never blew up, just overheat. At GOODWOOD, The #7 cylinder went dead but the engine continued until excessive oil forced the CAR WAS BLACK FLAGED to be used to stop the smoking car.

The crew from Buck Baker came with him to Europe, and after every race "REPLACED" the pistons with new ones they had in supply with them.

I have heard from others that Allen was hard to deal with. Does anyone have any more history on these races to confirm the above WSPR-RACING website information?

[RA Historian]

Vettefinderjim, on Sep 30 2009, 11:56, said:

I have heard from others that Allen was hard to deal with.

I seem to recall an episode involving Markelson at an eastern US race where he had to be forcibly removed from the premises by the police after some type of unauthorized on track happening. I may very well be wrong, and if so I apologize to Markelson, but I seem to recall reading something somewhere quite a while ago.
Tom

[Jerry Entin]

This comes from Willem Oosthoek:
The 1961 Bridgehampton National had to be stopped because Markelson and his Corvette joined the big iron in the feature race. In a previous race he had already been black flagged for oil loss, but he ignored the order to come in. When the officials noticed his production car among the modifieds, they knew flag signals would be useless. They stopped the race after the opening lap and Markelson was removed from the track by some state troupers.

[Jerry Entin]

But wait, there is more.......


Allen did not make himself popular with the SCCA officials that day. He told me once that, when he drove the Corvette back to New York on the Long island Expressway, he had to stop because the car behaved strangely.. The lugs on two wheels had been loosened, obviously in the hope they would fall off on the ride home.

above from Willem Oosthoek

[Jager]

I know this is an old thread, but figured it was the best place to put the link below which has some great video footage of the Corvettes being prepared for Le Mans in 1960 :

[arttidesco]

Jager, on Apr 26 2011, 12:22, said:

I know this is an old thread, but figured it was the best place to put the link below which has some great video footage of the Corvettes being prepared for Le Mans in 1960 :

Fab footage, Mark Schottinger has a new fan too !

[Vettefinderjim]

Jager, on Apr 26 2011, 04:22, said:

I know this is an old thread, but figured it was the best place to put the link below which has some great video footage of the Corvettes being prepared for Le Mans in 1960 :

This great tape was from the personel collection of Frank Burell. Frank was the GM engineer that was Zora Duntov's assistant and worked directly with team manager John Fitch in Daytona 1956 and Sebring 56. From that day forward, Frank worked on all the GM Engineering Corvette race cars thru 57. After the AMA Ban on racing, Zora (seen in the black shirt and exiting the passenger seat) worked closely with many privateer racers like Briggs Cunninghan, Lucky Casner and the CAMORADI team.

Early in the footage when arriving at the garage, you can see the 37 gallon gas tank in front of the Corvette. These special tanks were used in the three Cunningham, # 1, #2 and #3 cars, and the one # 4 CAMORADI car.

The Cunningham # 1 car is the only one of the four cars that have not been found. #2 was found in 1981 in a Irwindale, California junkyard for $300. I was lucky to be involved in that discovery. #3 was found in 1993 in private party hands driven on the streets of St. Louis. In 2000, Chip Miller purchased the car and the Miller family reunited it with LeMans last summer. See this clip for more up to date details on this great history.

[vettexan]

Interesting thread and discussion on the Corvettes that raced at LeMans in 1960. I'm sure most of you have heard about he upcoming premiere of 'The Quest' in Carlisle, PA. on May 6th. (SOME of you are in it!) I think I can say it is the most comprehensive history
of that race and the Corvettes that raced there the first time 50 years ago...that has ever been done. Not only is it a great story of loss of a dream and the fulfillment of a father's wish by a son, (Lance Miller) but the narrative gathers information on
the lost history and re-discovery of these cars from many who were directly involved in re-creating their discovery, restoration and ultimate elevation to racing icons. The film shares thoughts and remembrances of such people as
Jim Gessner, Jeff Reade, Bill Norris, Mike Pillsbury, Kevin Mackay and others...who fill in blanks previously incomplete.

The history that Jim Gessner (who, BTW, is featured prominently in our documentary) refers to in this thread is covered in some detail in the film

If you can't make the Premiere, watch for DVDs in early summer....screenings of the film at major car events & museums around the country in the future...and possible national cable channel airings.

Regarding the Burell footage...John Fitch tells me that Briggs Cunningham had the home movies shot during those days leading up to the 1960 LeMans Race in France. We had acquired some of the footage several months ago and it is included
in 'The Quest'. The man who posted it on Vimeo says he received the original film, unexpectedly and mysteriously, in a delivery a while back. He had agreed to send us the original footage for our examination, but for whatever reason, that never
happened. Regardless, it's a great piece of history, chronicling a great time in Corvette Racing history.

Michael Brown
Producer/Director
'THE QUEST'

[Jerry Entin]

One of the 1960 Cunningham Le Mans Corvettes ended up in Florida later that year, where it was raced by Don Gist and Lee Lilley. Assuming the #1 car was too heavily damaged after Bill Kimberly's crash to survive, was the Gist/Lilley car Cunningham's #2 or #3?

all research: Willem Oosthoek

[Loren Lundberg]

Jerry Entin, on Apr 28 2011, 22:01, said:

One of the 1960 Cunningham Le Mans Corvettes ended up in Florida later that year, where it was raced by Don Gist and Lee Lilley. Assuming the #1 car was too heavily damaged after Bill Kimberly's crash to survive, was the Gist/Lilley car Cunningham's #2 or #3?

all research: Willem Oosthoek

Gist originally ran the car at a pair of Florida SCCA races, without significant results. It WAS #3. He did team with Lilley to take the car to Nassau in December. DG overslept the day of the race and Lilley started the car with a resulting DNF as I recall. I initially reported to Chip that I had a story that indicated Gist owned the car. Ran an ad in National Dragster seeking Gist; 2 years later the phone rang and Gist reported that Jerry Stahl had remembered the ad and passed it on.

Essence was that Gist decided shifting while going in a straight line was easier. There are a couple of interesting pictures of the car in 1/4 mile trim, including one of the INITIAL FI unit - a 7300 - NOT the later 7320 it had raced in Le Mans (race motor had also returned
to MI).

I also asked Don about his parts source while drag racing; "I got them through my neighbor in West Palm Beach - Harley Earle".

Edited by Loren Lundberg, 20 May 2011 - 22:18.

[Vettefinderjim]

Jerry Entin, on Apr 28 2011, 15:01, said:

One of the 1960 Cunningham Le Mans Corvettes ended up in Florida later that year, where it was raced by Don Gist and Lee Lilley. Assuming the #1 car was too heavily damaged after Bill Kimberly's crash to survive, was the Gist/Lilley car Cunningham's #2 or #3?

all research: Willem Oosthoek

My best guess Jerry is the car in Florida was the Gist/Lilley ? Cunningham #1 car. We have photos of all the Cunningham cars at the post-race inspection, and damaged yes, but all were repairable. The #1 car was not driven or raced at Sebring, but was driven by Cunningham and Kimberly at LeMans, and the last time this car was identified in the US was in 1972 in Florida. Rumors today say it may be in Texas.

Now I have a photo of Don Gist drag racing a 60 Corvette at the Half Moon Bay Dragstrip in Northern California. The car has its hardtop in place lined up on the starting line, and the car has no painted marks on it. The shrubs behind the photo looks like Half Moon Bay as I remember it when I attended those races in 1967. It is a black and white photo, and very difficult to see any "LeMans details", even the rollbar.

I also have additional 3 photos of that car with Don in a NHRA T-shirt, top is off the car, hood open, roll bar exposed and the fuel injection unit showing in the engine compartment. On the front driver fender it says "Owned and Driven by DON GIST MOTORS". On the door is painted 283/290HP and D/SP for the drag racing class. On the rear fender is painted 1125 DIXIE ,followed by probably the town, the letters of which can not be read due to poor photo pixel quality. The road where these photos were taken is a rural two lane road with white rock on tar paving, no center lane typical of Florida roads of the 60's.

I only know of Lilley being involved with the CAMORADI #4 car with Jeffords, Gamble, and Wuesthoff listed as a drivers at Sebring. However Gamble and Lilley drove the car at Lemans, as Jeffords ran the Birdcage. This # 4 car is in Phoenix, AZ. and is featured in the 'QUEST' movie. The #4 CAMORADI car got the short stick in the final result ratings 30 days AFTER the race. In a letter to me January 6, 2008 from Fred Gamble, (living in Hawaii today) he said "The FIA said the car did not complete the INDEX OF PERFORMANCE miles as required".

Well in real miles, the # 3 Cunningham class winner went 2348 miles, the Aston Martin DBR1 went 2347 miles, and Fred and Lee covered 2306 miles which was only 42 miles back of 8th place # 3 Cunningham. The car had a long delay pit stop due to a fuel injection pump cable that was wound backwards in manfacturing and unraveled. It took way too a long stop to discover the problem. Zora Duntov was finally asked Why??? and he said apologically, "factory mistake on a bad batch." They lost 6 laps, and maybe 50 miles, but once we got back underway, the car performed better than the Cunningham cars

There was a # 3 CAMORADI Corvette at 1960 SEBRING driven by Jeffords and Wuesthoff listed, but actually driven by Gamble and Lucky Casner. Lucky over reved the engine and bent a valve. We nursed the car for a while, but it finally was a DNF. A lean fuel injection sytem cause by a whelch plug leak on the fuel meter caused the valve and overheat problem. The car unfortunately burned to the ground the day AFTER 1960 Sebring race due to a massive fuel injection leak that a tech did not know about when moving the car in the pits.

We discoved all the LeMans Corvette vin and chassis numbers in 1989. The three Cunningham vin numbers we originally got from Zora Duntov in 1982 after the # 2 car was discovered in a Irwindale, California junk yard. The # 4 CAMORADI numbers came from LeMans FIA records. That is how we discovered and confirmed the history of the #2 and # 3 Cunningham cars, and found the # 4 CAMORADI car in Sweden in 1994. The missing #1 Cunningham car is out there hiding, and one day soon, it will be found

Edited by Vettefinderjim, 29 April 2011 - 04:09.

[Vettefinderjim]

Loren Lundberg, on Apr 28 2011, 15:29, said:

Gist originally ran the car at a pair of Florida SCCA races, without significant results. It WAS #3. He did team with Lilley to take the car to Nassau in December. DG overslept the day of the race and Lilley started the car with a resulting DNF as I recall. I initially reported to Chip that I had a story that indicated Gist owned the car. Ran an ad in National Dragster seeking Gist; 2 years later the phone rang and Gist reported that Jerry Stahl had remembered the ad and passed it on.

Essence was that Gist decided shifting while going in a straight line was easier. There are a couple of interesting pictures of the car in 1/4 mile trim, including one of the INITIAL FI unit - a 7300 - NOT the later 7320 it had raced in Le Mans (race motor had also returned
to MI).

I also asked Don about his parts source while drag racing; "I got them through my neighbor in West Pal Beach - Harley Earl".

Thanks Loren......that clears up the mystery of Don Gist. How do we explain the Half Moon Bay Drag race?

[Jerry Entin]

It seems as though the marque specialists can't agree whether Don Gist's Corvette was the Cunningham Le Mans #1 or #3 Corvette. I agree that #3 would have been the more logical choice, although Gist did not appear with his car until October 9, 1960 at Kissimmee, followed by an appearance at Master Field one week later. So plenty of time to repair #1 if it was actually that car.

As far as the Camoradi Sebring entries are concerned, some corrections are in order. Fred Gamble started the race in the #3 Corvette, with Jim Jeffords in #4. Within the first hour #4 ran into trouble, and Jeffords and Bill Wuesthoff took over the healthy #3 from Gamble, who continued at a much relaxed pace with the ailing #4. However, both cars finished, the #3 [Gamble/Jeffords/Wuesthoff] in 26th overall [157 laps completed] and #4 [Jeffords/Gamble] in 32th [143 laps completed]. According to Gamble, he ran the race solo after switching cars with Jeffords. Lucky Casner never took the wheel in either Corvette.

Also, before Sebring one of the Camoradi Corvettes appeared at Daytona, in the March 6, 1960, Regional at the Speedway. According to Gamble it was a dry run for Sebring to try out the brakes. Gamble ran four races that Sunday under #98, finishing:

Race 6: 3rd overall
Race 8: 4th overall
Race 10: 4th overall
Race 12 [feature]: DNF

Was the Daytona entry the #3 or #4 Corvette at Sebring?


all research: Willem Oosthoek

[Vettefinderjim]

Jerry Entin, on Apr 29 2011, 16:03, said:

It seems as though the marque specialists can't agree whether Don Gist's Corvette was the Cunningham Le Mans #1 or #3 Corvette. I agree that #3 would have been the more logical choice, although Gist did not appear with his car until October 9, 1960 at Kissimmee, followed by an appearance at Master Field one week later. So plenty of time to repair #1 if it was actually that car.

As far as the Camoradi Sebring entries are concerned, some corrections are in order. Fred Gamble started the race in the #3 Corvette, with Jim Jeffords in #4. Within the first hour #4 ran into trouble, and Jeffords and Bill Wuesthoff took over the healthy #3 from Gamble, who continued at a much relaxed pace with the ailing #4. However, both cars finished, the #3 [Gamble/Jeffords/Wuesthoff] in 26th overall [157 laps completed] and #4 [Jeffords/Gamble] in 32th [143 laps completed]. According to Gamble, he ran the race solo after switching cars with Jeffords. Lucky Casner never took the wheel in either Corvette.

Also, before Sebring one of the Camoradi Corvettes appeared at Daytona, in the March 6, 1960, Regional at the Speedway. According to Gamble it was a dry run for Sebring to try out the brakes. Gamble ran four races that Sunday under #98, finishing:

Race 6: 3rd overall
Race 8: 4th overall
Race 10: 4th overall
Race 12 [feature]: DNF

Was the Daytona entry the #3 or #4 Corvette at Sebring?


all research: Willem Oosthoek

Hi Jerry,
Thanks for clearing this up. I have the 45 minute FRED GAMBLE DVD story, but yesterday when I made my entry, I went from memory when I should have looked at the DVD first, and then inspected the records. My apologies, I know better. I did not know about the October 9, 1960 race at Kissimmee, followed by an appearance at Master Field one week later. Were they Drag stripes? Do you have any more history and photos?

I know all three owners of the discovered cars, #2 and 3 Cunninghams LeMans, and # 4 CAMORADI LeMans. I am happy to visit with you about each of these cars histories as I know. Every day we find out new history, which is great.

There is a lot of new information coming forward on the ownership history of the # 2 car which I am not at liberty to discuss at this time. An owner of the car from the spring of 1961, who later brought the car to California will be at the "QUEST" Movie Premier in Carlisle, PA on May 6, 2011. After that meeting, I will have more clarity on the history. The one thing I do know is Bill Frick worked for Briggs Cunningham and he was responsible for cleaning up the three Cunningham cars and selling them to the general public after the light restorations. I will be happy to visit with you via phone or in person.

[Vettefinderjim]

Jerry Entin, on Apr 29 2011, 16:03, said:

It seems as though the marque specialists can't agree whether Don Gist's Corvette was the Cunningham Le Mans #1 or #3 Corvette. I agree that #3 would have been the more logical choice, although Gist did not appear with his car until October 9, 1960 at Kissimmee, followed by an appearance at Master Field one week later. So plenty of time to repair #1 if it was actually that car.

Also, before Sebring one of the Camoradi Corvettes appeared at Daytona, in the March 6, 1960, Regional at the Speedway. According to Gamble it was a dry run for Sebring to try out the brakes. Gamble ran four races that Sunday under #98, finishing:

Race 6: 3rd overall
Race 8: 4th overall
Race 10: 4th overall
Race 12 [feature]: DNF

Was the Daytona entry the #3 or #4 Corvette at Sebring?


all research: Willem Oosthoek

Loren Lundberg needs to answer this question. He owns the #4 car.

[Jerry Entin]

Jim:
None of the 1960 appearances by the Gist Corvette took place on a drag strip.

The October 9, 1960 Kissimmee Cowboy Classic Sports Car Races took place on the 2.8-mile road and runway course of Kissimmee Municipal Airport. This inaugural event was organized by the Central Florida Region of the SCCA. In the entry list Gist is listed as a Lake Worth, Florida, resident.

Gist raced under #78 and shows up in photos on row 2 of the starting grid, behind Ross Durant [500TRC], Joe Sheppard [550RS] and Joe Hoppen [550RS]. Apart from a reference to "the rumble of Don Gist's Le Mans Corvette", the entry is not mentioned in the reports or results.

The Master Field event at Opa Locka near Miami, one week later, was named the Jaycee Prix Sports Car Races, organized by the SCCA's Florida Region under Roy Schechter. The track was 3.2 miles long. Gist won the Novice Races on Saturday and Sunday, and finished BP2 in the Feature.

Incidentally, you mentioned earlier the word Dixie appearing on the Gist Corvette. The Master Field sponsoring Jaycees had their clubhouse at 12100 West Dixie Highway in Miami, which may [or may not] provide an explanation.

An internet search for 1125 North Dixie Highway at Lake Worth [Don Gist's residence at the time] shows that the address still exists. Gist Motors has been replaced by an appliance store today.


all research: Willem Oosthoek

Edited by Jerry Entin, 30 April 2011 - 22:02.

[Jerry Entin]

Don Gist in another Corvette he owned
This isn't the ex Cunningham car. He may have drag raced this particular Corvette. It says D/sp on the side of it and it is a 1959 Fuel injected Corvette. It appears to be a stock Corvette with roll bar added and not any factory race type car.


photo: Ernie Schorb

Edited by Jerry Entin, 01 May 2011 - 09:43.

[Jerry Entin]

Don Gist drag racing Corvette
In 1962 Don Gist was the NHRA record holder in his drag racing set up Corvette. He turned an elapsed time of 11.98 at the Half Moon Bay drag strip in Northern California. This car appears to be an early 60's Corvette.

This seems strange that someone from Lake Worth, Florida would travel all the way to Northern California to drag race his car. Maybe he had relatives or friends in Northern California. There was no prize money in the A/sp drag racing in the early 60's. You just won a trophy.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 01 May 2011 - 09:41.

[Vettefinderjim]

Jerry Entin, on May 1 2011, 02:17, said:

Don Gist in another Corvette he owned
This isn't the ex Cunningham car. He may have drag raced this particular Corvette. It says D/sp on the side of it and it is a 1959 Fuel injected Corvette. It appears to be a stock Corvette with roll bar added and not any factory race type car.


photo: Ernie Schorb

This is the photo I have, and one other at the same location. How do you know this is NOT the ex-Cunningham car?