Jump to content


Photo

BMW 2009


  • Please log in to reply
3248 replies to this topic

#3201 Chris0815

Chris0815
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 03 November 2009 - 15:31

There are Total Pit Times. These times include times which depend also on driver skills.

Barteks wrote about the times which depend on the BMW pit-team only. And Robert stayed 3 seconds more than Nick in pit-stop. I'm curious, why?... To place Nick before Robert in this race, hmm...? :mad:


Any proof for that? Are those times published anywhere? Because I can't remember having seen the pitstops and times in tv. At least not Nick's.
Besides, it's quite unlikely that Nick lost 2, 5 seconds on Robert on his way through the pit.

Advertisement

#3202 evo.x

evo.x
  • Member

  • 180 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 03 November 2009 - 16:58

There are Total Pit Times. These times include times which depend also on driver skills.

Barteks wrote about the times which depend on the BMW pit-team only. And Robert stayed 3 seconds more than Nick in pit-stop. I'm curious, why?... To place Nick before Robert in this race, hmm...? :mad:



would you please stop this BS...
as much as I like Robert as a driver - he himself said that it was second stint that costed him the race. wrong tyre pressures? maybe. dunno. this is racing - sometimes tires are wrong, sometimes engines blow, sometimes there is no fuel in your tank - DEAL WITH IT!

Edited by evo.x, 03 November 2009 - 16:59.


#3203 bankoq

bankoq
  • Member

  • 2,078 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 17:54

http://www.f1matrix...._eng/17/pc.html

Kubica had 7.3s advantage, and Heidfled pitted 3 laps later. Normaly in 9/10 cases that's enough to get ahead with 2-3s advantage. Kubica should have get ahead of both Heidfeld & Trulli with comfortable advantage. But his outlap and other laps of 2nd stint are very, very slow: 1:33.2, 1:36, 1:33.9, 1:33.4 - judging by first laps of the race (same compound) he should get to mid 1:32 IMMEDIATELY.

Also take a look at Robert's first stint closing laps, these are all very low 1:41. Now take a look at last laps of his second stint - that's high 1:41. And have in mind the track conditions were better! Judging by the times of his second stint he should have been 0.5-1s faster every lap. Something has been really ****ed up by the team, until you believe Kubica suddenly lost all his talent, which is... :lol:

Those strange off days are one of the trademarks of BMW (apart from other failures). It happened to both drivers. Remember Valencia 2008? Kubica finished on podium, and Nick was only 9th and had no clue why the car didn't work for him. This team have never learned anything on its mistakes - apart from fixing gearbox problems after 2007.

Edited by bankoq, 03 November 2009 - 17:57.


#3204 thuGG

thuGG
  • Member

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 18:50

Well, I agree with you, many times it was that the driver did a really good stint, got to pit stop, and then WTF, the pace is slower but nobody knows why. Both drivers had this problems, Robert more often. Maybe it's the tires problem, you put exactly the same tires, same pressures, but the ambient temp is different and the level of grip is different, so the tires work differently. Here is Adrian Newey interview where he states that practically nobody understands the tires at the moment (at the end of the video):
http://www.motorspor.../videos/f1/2091

It may be that one set of tires is slightly different than the other. Actually I remember that I red an interview with someone (driver probably) when he stated that sometimes tire sets are different despite its the same type of tire, I don't remember if I red it on F1Racing or somewhere on the internet.

Edited by thuGG, 03 November 2009 - 18:57.


#3205 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 19:54

would you please stop this BS...
as much as I like Robert as a driver - he himself said that it was second stint that costed him the race. wrong tyre pressures? maybe. dunno. this is racing - sometimes tires are wrong, sometimes engines blow, sometimes there is no fuel in your tank - DEAL WITH IT!

It is women's intuition. :)
When Kubica said about his second stint: "It was weired, very weired".... then I'm becoming suspicious... and I think that it was something in that..., something which was done intentionally by BMW team.

#3206 Chris0815

Chris0815
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 03 November 2009 - 20:14

It is women's intuition. :)
When Kubica said about his second stint: "It was weired, very weired".... then I'm becoming suspicious... and I think that it was something in that..., something which was done intentionally by BMW team.


You totally convinced me. It wasn't that Kubica was stuck behind Trulli his whole second stint (as was Nick in his first one). It was that devilish BMW-Sauber-Team that wants by all means prevent Robert from having success.

Come on. Don't be ridiculous.

Edited by Chris0815, 03 November 2009 - 20:18.


#3207 HMV

HMV
  • Member

  • 488 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 03 November 2009 - 20:27

You totally convinced me. It wasn't that Kubica was stuck behind Trulli his whole second stint (as was Nick in his first one). It was that devilish BMW-Sauber-Team that wants by all means prevent Robert from having success.

Come on. Don't be ridiculous.


I'd actually prefer BMW sabotage Kubica. That would mean they at least knew what they're doing. As it was, they didn't most of the time and all the supposed put-your-tinfoil-hat-on-accidents were goddamn goof ups on the teams part (like Nick running out of fuel - total idiocy).

And even if the tires were a b*tch for everyone, like thuGG implies, BMW somehow managed to get the to be b*tchy more often than everybody else. Or they simply put them the other way round.

While I'll miss BMW, I won't miss that particular type of comedy the served us so often.

#3208 Bogs

Bogs
  • Member

  • 339 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 20:48

I'd actually prefer BMW sabotage Kubica. That would mean they at least knew what they're doing. As it was, they didn't most of the time and all the supposed put-your-tinfoil-hat-on-accidents were goddamn goof ups on the teams part (like Nick running out of fuel - total idiocy).

And even if the tires were a b*tch for everyone, like thuGG implies, BMW somehow managed to get the to be b*tchy more often than everybody else. Or they simply put them the other way round.

While I'll miss BMW, I won't miss that particular type of comedy the served us so often.


Toyota out of F1. That means that Sauber should be in!


#3209 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 21:17

You totally convinced me. It wasn't that Kubica was stuck behind Trulli his whole second stint (as was Nick in his first one). It was that devilish BMW-Sauber-Team that wants by all means prevent Robert from having success.

But the question is: in which way Kubica was behind Trulli and Heidfeld after their pit stops? Kubica pitted on lap 16, Trulli 2 laps later (on lap 18) and Heidfeld on lap 19.
As Bankoq wrote, before his pit-stop Kubica had huge advantage, so Kubica should have get ahead of them with comfortable advantage.

Come on. Don't be ridiculous.

Ridiculous?

Like in this thread: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=104156 , Chris0815? :p

Edited by Megan, 03 November 2009 - 21:22.


#3210 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,857 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 03 November 2009 - 21:51

But the question is: in which way Kubica was behind Trulli and Heidfeld after their pit stops? Kubica pitted on lap 16, Trulli 2 laps later (on lap 18) and Heidfeld on lap 19.
As Bankoq wrote, before his pit-stop Kubica had huge advantage, so Kubica should have get ahead of them with comfortable advantage.

Think about what you are saying... You must know that for 3 laps (16 to 19) Robert was much heavier than Nick, and Nick was the lightest and quickest when he did not have Trulli in front.
Fuel corrected, Nick outqualified Robert this time.
I don't know why they gave Robert such a short first stint, or if he asked for it.
He had the least fuel of anyone on the grid.

#3211 bankoq

bankoq
  • Member

  • 2,078 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 22:05

It's all irrelevant. The point is Kubica had 7.3s advantage, which was comfortably more than enough to keep his position, even if he was 2s slower than Heidfeld. If you look at both drivers stints Robert should get to mid 1:32 immediately after leaving pit-stop, but he did high 1:33 which is very, very bizzare. Of course you can believe that just for those several minutes Kubica forgot how to drive fast.

It should be 7 points for BMW in Abu Dhabi.

Such strange situations happened to both drivers (e.g. Valencia 2008) which is good indication how uncompetent BMW was. I don't know what happened, maybe the set of tires was defective or they didn't put them on properly.

BTW I don't think Heidfeld outqualified Kubica fuel corrected as 10kg mean ~0.3-0.4s, and Robert beat Nick by 0.351s in qualy. They were pretty equal this time IMHO.

Edited by bankoq, 03 November 2009 - 22:08.


#3212 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,857 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 03 November 2009 - 22:15

I'm going by published fuel corrected numbers.
Argue with the BBC. ...It's a long track.

BBC fuel adjusted:

1 Lewis Hamilton (lap 17)
2 Sebastian Vettel +0.496secs (lap 19)
3 Mark Webber +0.721 (lap 18)
4 Jarno Trulli +0.854 (lap 18)
5 Rubens Barrichello +0.971 (lap 16)
6 Jenson Button +1.001 (lap 17)
7 Nick Heidfeld +1.186 (lap 19)
8 Robert Kubica +1.196 (lap 15)
9 Nico Rosberg +1.388 (lap 19)
10 Sebastien Buemi +1.651 (lap 18)




Edited by metz, 03 November 2009 - 22:31.


#3213 Lukin83

Lukin83
  • Member

  • 754 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 03 November 2009 - 22:34

That link should be posted any time anyone compares Robert to Nick ;)
http://www.bmw-saube...#/news/~508/|0/

Edited by Lukin83, 03 November 2009 - 22:35.


#3214 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,857 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 03 November 2009 - 22:47

That link should be posted any time anyone compares Robert to Nick ;)
http://www.bmw-saube...#/news/~508/|0/

:up: Completely agree.
They were the closest matched teamates on the grid.
The puzzle is, why Robert is recognized for this as one of the top 5 drivers, and Nick has trouble making the top 10, and no seat for next year.

#3215 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 22:53

Think about what you are saying... You must know that for 3 laps (16 to 19) Robert was much heavier than Nick, and Nick was the lightest and quickest when he did not have Trulli in front.

The difference between quickest (lightest car) and slowest (heaviest car) time was 2s at best. For three laps it is 6s. The advantage Robert had over Nick was 7.3s, which was enough to keep Robert position.






#3216 bankoq

bankoq
  • Member

  • 2,078 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 22:56

Nick can end up in McLaren, Toyota, Renault or Sauber. I don't think he will have any problem to find a seat in established team.

#3217 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:00

The puzzle is, why Robert is recognized for this as one of the top 5 drivers, and Nick has trouble making the top 10, and no seat for next year.

Maybe because it is much easier to be a German driver in the German team?...

Edited by Megan, 03 November 2009 - 23:00.


#3218 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,857 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:16

The difference between quickest (lightest car) and slowest (heaviest car) time was 2s at best. For three laps it is 6s. The advantage Robert had over Nick was 7.3s, which was enough to keep Robert position.

Did you forget about lap 19, where Robert lost an extra 3 seconds?

#3219 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:18

Maybe because it is much easier to be a German driver in the German team?...


You can't be serious, honestly.




Advertisement

#3220 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:39

You can't be serious, honestly.

You must be very naive to belive that the nationality does not matter in this case.




#3221 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:40

You must be very naive to belive that the nationality does not matter in this case.


Hang on, if I'm that naive Robert Kubica must be too.

Which, of course, he isn't.

So following your logic Ferrari would favour Fisichella, Renault would favour Grosjean, Toyota would favour Kobayashi, Red Bull would favour Vettel, McLaren would favour Hamilton, Brawn would favour Button etc etc...?

Edited by potmotr, 03 November 2009 - 23:42.


#3222 Brawn BGP 001

Brawn BGP 001
  • Member

  • 5,948 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:45

Hang on, if I'm that naive Robert Kubica must be too.

Which, of course, he isn't.

So following your logic Ferrari would favour Fisichella, Renault would favour Grosjean, Toyota would favour Kobayashi, Red Bull would favour Vettel, McLaren would favour Hamilton, Brawn would favour Button etc etc...?

Never knew Vettel was Austrian. :p

#3223 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:52

Never knew Vettel was Austrian. :p


As near as makes no difference when you are dealing with a team owned by German-speaking Austrians!

#3224 Lukin83

Lukin83
  • Member

  • 754 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 03 November 2009 - 23:54

The puzzle is, why Robert is recognized for this as one of the top 5 drivers, and Nick has trouble making the top 10, and no seat for next year.


My theory: Nick has a reputation of a driver who will deliver crucial points, won't crash a car, help his teammate but won't necessarily deliver the highest possible results. Meanwhile Robert is more like a 'on the edge guy', who has the pure pace, shines when in fight for the win but is not that much interested in driving an one-stopper and bringing it home.
Top teams prefer drivers alike to Kubica because their agenda is to be in the battle for the top spots, not to invisibly score 4-5 points every race.

#3225 FlatOverCrest

FlatOverCrest
  • Member

  • 2,823 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 04 November 2009 - 00:06

Rumblings coming out of Japan that Toyota are about to announce the pull out from F1 with immediate effect???

Thus place on the grid for BMW/Sauber/Quadbak....

I am digging further more leaks now... currently being discussed on the Toyota thread..

#3226 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 04 November 2009 - 00:18

Top teams prefer drivers alike to Kubica because their agenda is to be in the battle for the top spots, not to invisibly score 4-5 points every race.


There's room for both of those drivers.

Nick probably won't win a world championship, but he's hugely dependable.

That's why I think Nick and Robert were one of the best combos ever.

But returning to Megan's allegation, I think there is no way at all BMW would try and disadvantage Robert on purpose.

It makes no sense.

#3227 Lukin83

Lukin83
  • Member

  • 754 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 04 November 2009 - 00:30

There's room for both of those drivers.


I agree. BMW pair was great because it contained the best of both worlds. Besides, Nick is clearly the best of his kind IMHO. He should be on radars of both McLaren and Brawn.

edit: I had quoted wrong part of potmotr's post, fixed now

Edited by Lukin83, 04 November 2009 - 11:50.


#3228 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,857 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:04

It's also very clear to me that no other two drivers on the grid would be able to squeeze 36 points out of that disasterous package this year.
They stuck with it while others would have thrown in the towel after the fist two races.

#3229 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,857 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:16

Nick probably won't win a world championship,....

....and THERE I disagree with you.

If Massa or Jenson (two drivers I rate less than Robert or Nick) can win it, why not Nick?
Give him the friggin car!
Unless he pulls a Fisi (who has now disappointed twice in a good car) or a HHF, we just don't know.

Edited by metz, 04 November 2009 - 02:17.


#3230 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:28

Metz, I've LOVE to see Nick in a decent car.

I really think he could do it, but probably he won't sadly.

That said, I'd love to see him in a McLaren.

#3231 Chris0815

Chris0815
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:19

But the question is: in which way Kubica was behind Trulli and Heidfeld after their pit stops? Kubica pitted on lap 16, Trulli 2 laps later (on lap 18) and Heidfeld on lap 19.
As Bankoq wrote, before his pit-stop Kubica had huge advantage, so Kubica should have get ahead of them with comfortable advantage.


The gap was 7,350 secs in their last completed lap before Robert's pitstop.

Robert lost 0,2 secs on his inlap in comparison to Nick's inlap

He was 2 secs slower on his outlap in comparison to Nicks outlap, but he spent only 0, 5 secs more in the pitlane. The reason is that he came into traffic and had to fight with Kovalainen (-0,796) in that lap, what cost him obviously 1,5 secs.

He was still behind Kova(- 1,489) in Lap 18, driving a 1:43,247

In lap 19 he had Trulli coming out of the pitlane right in front of him and got in another fight, driving a very slow 1:46, 056 (-0,781 secs to Trulli). That was also Nick's inlap.

In lap 20 (Nick's outlap) Robert (still close behind Trulli, -0,811 secs) had a 1:43,994.

in the 3 Laps between their pitstops, Nick drove these laptimes:
Lap 16: 1:41,262 (-2 secs compared to Robert's lap 18)
Lap 17: 1:41,478 (-4,5 secs compared to Robert's lap 19)
Lap 18: 1:41,178 (-2,8 secs compared to Robert's lap 20)

So, let's do the math:

0,2 secs on inlap
+ 2 secs on outlap
+ an aggregated 9,3 secs on the laps between their pitstops

That's about 11,5 secs Robert lost to Nick.

If you take the 7,3 lead he had before the pitstops into account that makes a difference of about 4,2 secs.

And surprise, surprise, after lap 20 Nick was 4,278 secs ahead of Robert.

Sources:
http://www.f1matrix.it/gp_2009_eng/
http://www.f1matrix...._eng/17/pc.html
http://www.formula1....op_summary.html


Sorry for being that fussy about that topic, but I believe in hard facts (what these calculations are) and i can't stand wild, baseless assertions or accusations.

:|

Edited by Chris0815, 04 November 2009 - 10:33.


#3232 thuGG

thuGG
  • Member

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:56

Chris0815, good post. Traffic is a b*tch;)

#3233 Alonzo

Alonzo
  • Member

  • 658 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 04 November 2009 - 11:41

Nick can end up in McLaren, Toyota, Renault or Sauber. I don't think he will have any problem to find a seat in established team.

From those mentioned, only Mclaren is really confirmed to be on the grid next year :p

If Massa or Jenson (two drivers I rate less than Robert or Nick) can win it, why not Nick?

Button is average but Massa proved to be better than Kimi and Hamilton imo.

#3234 barteks

barteks
  • Member

  • 2,329 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 04 November 2009 - 14:19

Nick can end up in McLaren, Toyota, Renault or Sauber. I don't think he will have any problem to find a seat in established team.

My bet is on Sauber.

#3235 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,857 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 November 2009 - 14:34

Flash!

With the departure of Toyota, Sauber is likely back on the grid. Nick will stay with the team.

Autosport reports the following: Renault is also holding an extraordinary board meeting to discuss its future plans today. Although the indications are that the French company is committed to F1, Toyota's decision to pull out could give Renault an opportunity to follow suit if it wished.

If Renault indeed does pull the plug, we should see Robert returning to the Sauber team and we will STILL have the best 2 drivers on the grid.... :up: :up:

#3236 shonguiz

shonguiz
  • Member

  • 3,714 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 04 November 2009 - 15:31

If toyota is bought then nothing has changed for Quadback.

#3237 wingwalker

wingwalker
  • Member

  • 7,238 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 04 November 2009 - 15:39

If toyota is bought then nothing has changed for Quadback.



There are to two takes on this situation, one is that Sauber has the 13th spot as Toyota are out and the potential Toyota buyer would be 14th in line, the other one is that thanks to Toyota singing CA an ex-Toyota team would be ahead of Sauber if a buyer is found. Someone should get Autosport guys (Noble?) on it.

#3238 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 04 November 2009 - 15:43

If Renault indeed does pull the plug, we should see Robert returning to the Sauber team and we will STILL have the best 2 drivers on the grid.... :up: :up:


That would be awesome!

However, if Renault does pull the pin in the days ahead I'd expect to see McLaren swoop on Kubica.

Just a feeling...

#3239 Rob

Rob
  • Member

  • 9,223 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 04 November 2009 - 15:45

Metz, I've LOVE to see Nick in a decent car.

I really think he could do it, but probably he won't sadly.


Nick can win a world championship if someone gives him the car. In his rookie season, he nearly beat seasoned veteran Montoya to the F3000 title. His utter dominance the following year just embellishes his reputation.

Advertisement

#3240 thuGG

thuGG
  • Member

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 04 November 2009 - 15:45

But McLaren has Kimi on the table I don't think they'd prefer Robert over Kimi. Kubica is a lot cheaper though.

#3241 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 04 November 2009 - 15:47

Nick can win a world championship if someone gives him the car. In his rookie season, he nearly beat seasoned veteran Montoya to the F3000 title. His utter dominance the following year just embellishes his reputation.


I don't doubt his ability at all.

Not sure he could quite deal with Hamilton but I'd love to see him have the opportunity.


#3242 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 04 November 2009 - 16:46

Sorry for being that fussy about that topic, but I believe in hard facts (what these calculations are) and i can't stand wild, baseless assertions or accusations.


Something is wrong with your logic. You mixed the effect with the reason.
The question was: "Why Kubica's car was so slow after first pit stop?", and not: "Was Kubica's car slow after the first pit stop?". Can you see the difference?

Kubica in the interview said nothing about traffic after his pit stop - he said about strange problems with the car. Also BMW in their comment about the race said nothing about traffic - they usually do that.




#3243 Chris0815

Chris0815
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 04 November 2009 - 18:10

Something is wrong with your logic. You mixed the effect with the reason.
The question was: "Why Kubica's car was so slow after first pit stop?", and not: "Was Kubica's car slow after the first pit stop?". Can you see the difference?


Actually i wasn't talking about slow cars at all. I just explained the reason why he couldn't defend his position after the first round of pitstops. He might have had problems with his car or tyres. That's what he said. We have no reason not to believe him. But it was not the reason why he lost positions. And during his second stint he was actually at no time more than 2,6 seconds behind Trulli. So he was at least not much slower than him and might have even been able to go faster.
And that his pitcrew took a little nap of 3 or so seconds when he pitted like it was mentioned earlier is pure imagination. There is no proof at all for this. And all data we have says that it was not the case.


Kubica in the interview said nothing about traffic after his pit stop - he said about strange problems with the car. Also BMW in their comment about the race said nothing about traffic - they usually do that.


From the official BMW-Sauber website:

Mario Theissen: "Robert was unlucky three times during the race: After each pitstop he came back on the track behind a slower car, and due to the collision with Buemi he lost one position."

Source: http://www.bmw-saube...witch_de#/news/

Don't get me wrong. It's not my intention to discredit Kubica, his speed or his driving skills. I just want to point out that there is absolutely no reason to suspect BMW of intentionally placing Nick in front of Robert. This can't be proofed and there is not even a reason to assume it. It's not news that drivers of every team complain about sudden loss of grip after pitstops at times.

And that is my last statement concerning this topic. :)

Edited by Chris0815, 04 November 2009 - 18:27.


#3244 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 04 November 2009 - 20:47

Hopefully they'll be back on the grid following Toyota's departure.

#3245 Megan

Megan
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 04 November 2009 - 22:09

Actually i wasn't talking about slow cars at all. I just explained the reason why he couldn't defend his position after the first round of pitstops. He might have had problems with his car or tyres. That's what he said. We have no reason not to believe him. But it was not the reason why he lost positions. And during his second stint he was actually at no time more than 2,6 seconds behind Trulli. So he was at least not much slower than him and might have even been able to go faster.

You explained in which way Kubica not defend his position, not the reason why.
His car after first pit stop was very slow, slower than other cars. Therefore he lost positions.
And why Kubica's car was so slow? He said he had no grip at all.
So why he had no grip at all? We can only guess - I think BMW team made something wrong with his car (tyres) during this pit stop.

From the official BMW-Sauber website:

Mario Theissen: "Robert was unlucky three times during the race: After each pitstop he came back on the track behind a slower car"

This is simply not true. It was shown on TV that there were not cars in front of Kubica after his pit stops.

From the official F1 website Live Timing Commentary:
"Lap 40/55 - Kubica makes his second stop to take on the softer tyre for his final stint. He rejoins in clean air in P9."

I just want to point out that there is absolutely no reason to suspect BMW of intentionally placing Nick in front of Robert. .

Placing Nick before Robert (in WDC classification) BMW can offer to sell the team with the leader team driver included. It may be the reason that they did it.




#3246 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,995 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 04 November 2009 - 22:39

Something is wrong with your logic. You mixed the effect with the reason.


Megan, you've not come up with a shread of evidence to support your theory.

I reckon you should give it a rest.


#3247 kNt

kNt
  • Member

  • 1,695 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 04 November 2009 - 23:16

Getting out behind a guy that is slower and then beeing overtaken from the guy one place more behind is not really believable.

#3248 Lukin83

Lukin83
  • Member

  • 754 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 05 November 2009 - 00:00

But McLaren has Kimi on the table I don't think they'd prefer Robert over Kimi. Kubica is a lot cheaper though.


Some sites claim that Kubica's manager is already talking with McLaren. It's German to Polish to English translation though, so don't take it as anything reliable...


#3249 HP

HP
  • Member

  • 19,631 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 22 November 2009 - 15:25

Haven't seen another thread for this, so I hope it's news, even though not good one.

Doesn't look good for BMW/Sauber

In German
http://www.tagesanze.../story/28588303

In short:

According to the report above, BMW, Sauber and Bank Rothschild fell into the clutches of a convicted financial fraud Russel King. He is said to the person behind Qadbak. He also is said behind the Bahrain Capital International company, which claimed to finance the deal. But doesn't have any money.

So far neither BMW nor Sauber nor Bank Rothschild have commented on this.