448 replies to this topic

[Ocelot]

I wonder if other series are benefitting from the downturn in others. This isn't just a random thought but based on a chat I had recently with a guy who mediated in a dispute between Honda and Conquest Racing in IRL. He said he was talking with Honda after the mediation and they said they are reasonably optimistic about the size of the IRL grid this year. I find it interesting that Honda can justify staying in IRL despite pulling out of F1...

[Ross Stonefeld]

They win every race, and the teams pay them for that priviledge.

[Ocelot]

Sure - isn't that the same logic by which Bridgestone are in F1? But, if so, isn't that also the same reason why Goodyear left F1? I just wonder whether suplying every car gives enough marketing benefit in a downturn. What I don't know is whether the teams cover all Honda's costs. If they do then you've got the answer.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think they cover current costs. The engines were already built, they've been detuned as they are sole supplier, so the teams are paying them a maintenance and rebuild lease and Honda gets some ad space on every car and driver.

I reckon it's fairly close to break even for them, even though they'd prefer to have an engine war going. Honda USA seems to survive on it's own regardless of what the rest of the company is doing globally.

[Ocelot]

Honda USA seems to survive on it's own regardless of what the rest of the company is doing globally.

Indeed it does. Honda should have got it to fund the F1 team....

[Andrew Kitson]

Mike Lawrence yet again on great form. Love the 'strapped for cash' line!
http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=36974

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Love the 'strapped for cash' line!

How true.

(I'm worried, though, by the thought of the poor drivers possibly being called upon to "excavate their bowels".)

[Andrew Kitson]

Oh dear, more trouble for Donington? If true of course.
http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=36997

[simon drabble]

a friendly fiver says that all ends in tears....

[David McKinney]

Original story here
http://www.telegraph...ngton-Park.html

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by simon drabble
a friendly fiver says that all ends in tears....

Was it ever a serious runner???

[simon drabble]

as serious as the GP being held in London! Whilst I genuinely believe that we are somewhere near the bottom the recovery will be U shaped and as such motor racing sponsorship/financing is way down the list of priorities...
Much more interestingly will be a look at BRDC accounts next year.. Moto GP is a poor consolation prize and with Silverstone losing money I bet they wish they had looked more seriously at Wilkinshaw's real estate offer back then.

[RTH]

I don't see it happening either.

The recovery might just be L shaped Simon. I see house prices going a lot lower yet especially in London and the South-East and until they find a resting place activity generally is likely to be very nervous, could all take a long time.

Gordon's financial adviser Ed Balls , this week told a Labour party meeting ,the recession will be the worst for 100 years and likely go on for 15 years !!

Motor sport generally needs to wake up to the new situation and drastically cut everyone's costs, not least the spectator.Lavish facilities are not needed by the paying public, it's more about organiser's egos.
Silverstone have saddled themselves with a venue that costs a great deal just to open. They need to return to more voluntary manning and minimal basics.

[john ruston]

Will they take Bernie's offer at BRDC?.There must be some reason for him to orchestrate the difficulties that Silverstone/BRDC are in.The final downfall of BRDC! Must be the plan as Donnington could and never was going anywhere.

[kayemod]

Whipping boy Max's comments over the last week or so are interesting. I hope I'm not reading too much into them, but when he said that the FIA would do what it could to safeguard races like the British GP, wasn't he saying in effect that Bernie's ever escalating charges must be curtailed or even slashed in the current economic climate, in order to safeguard F1's 'crown jewels' ? Donington was a non-starter, even a bad joke, right from the initial announcements, but does anyone feel like joining me in slipping a few quid on a Silverstone race in 2011? Never thought I'd be siding with Max, but if he stays in power, maybe racing's future is safer in his hands than Bernie's. Also, there's not much doubt which of those two reptiles is going to live longest, always assuming of course that Max's heart is strong enough to cope with his leisure activities...

[Andrew Kitson]

On the domestic front I hear entry registrations are suprisingly good in some areas. The Lotus Elise Trophy is sold out. Also good interest with HSCC entries I hear. More overseas competitors here due to strong euro, weak pound to balance things out?

[john ruston]

The odd series is doing well and the only hope is domestic races being well supported due to people not travelling overseas.A few of the usual overseas meetings dominated by Brits are noticing a sharp decline in entries for this season.Spa 6 hrs meeting will be the main barometer although I notice that the Mayor of Moscow is doing the MM in a Talbot so all is not lost!James Martin will have a mate

[john ruston]

People are still buying good old cars even if new car sales have vanished.One major distributor had the opinion that half the main dealers would vanish before July.Mr Balls is extremely well named and as far as establishment institutions are concerned I have joined Mr Hinton in my opinion of BBC after Carol Thacher fiasco!It needs a change and then the economy will improve as 3/4 million unemployed will get everyone's attention.Selling the family silver and destroying British industry was never a good idea.It was not only the unions and Thacher but also the Weinstock type asset strippers.

[simon drabble]

Indeed Silverstone is now far from the jewel in the BRDC crown. If I were a member I would be glad of its limited liaibility. Those men in blazers might look down their nose at the likes of Bernie but to be honest he is probably their potential white knight. At this rate the Club will go the way of its largest tennant....

[RTH]

Extensively reported over on ten-tenths that Grand Prix Racewear have gone out of business and all their shops are now closed.

[alansart]

Originally posted by RTH
Extensively reported over on ten-tenths that Grand Prix Racewear have gone out of business and all their shops are now closed.

Martin Hines has acquired the assets.

[Andrew Kitson]

'Honda' F1 team close to being rescued:
http://www.grandprix...ns/ns21178.html

[Barry Boor]

Speaking only for myself but to me this is GREAT NEWS!

I hated the idea that Button may be without a drive and though I do not think for one minute that the package is going to be competitive, being there is so much better than not being there.

I just hope it all comes together.

(Good to see a Senna back in F.1 too,)

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Speaking only for myself but to me this is GREAT NEWS!

I hated the idea that Button may be without a drive and though I do not think for one minute that the package is going to be competitive, being there is so much better than not being there.

I just hope it all comes together.

(Good to see a Senna back in F.1 too,)

There is also to be an announcement of Feb 24th about the proposed USF1 Grand Prix team that is planning to enter F1 in 2010. They plan to operate from a base in Charlotte. Peter Windsor is one of the guys behind it who will reveal the plans on Speed TV on the 24th. Now the US needs a race back, if they are to have their own team!
Maybe these proposed cost cutting measures are working?

[john ruston]

Williams can wave goodbye to RBS cash after today's Express article and the Honda deal is 50/50.

Reality will dawn on many and perhaps whipping boy is correct in his view of future.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by john ruston
Reality will dawn on many and perhaps whipping boy is correct in his view of future.

Ah, but there are a few reasons to be optimistic. I read a survey in one of last week's papers, the article explained that the results were set out in a way, "That had been broken down by age and sex". Not sure why, but that phrase conjured up images of Bernie and Max, and in that order. Surely this suggests that they can't be staying around indefinitely to screw up the sport.

[Ocelot]

Williams can wave goodbye to RBS cash after today's Express article

Not seen an article in today's paper but the following one, which mentioned F1 (and Williams) was on the cover of yesterday's Express:
http://www.express.c...n-bail-out-cash

[Ross Stonefeld]

Since they aren't nationalised I think both bonuses and sponsorships will continue. "We have contracts" afterall...


http://business.time...icle5734138.ece

[Ocelot]

Since they aren't nationalised I think both bonuses and sponsorships will continue. "We have contracts" afterall...

Definitely not one I would bet on. ING is pulling out and its losses were far less than RBS and it isn't at all in public hands. RBS' F1 sponsorship is now getting front cover newspaper coverage so I'd say that the pressure is likely to get so great that it will have no choice but to cancel. It may also end up nationalised leading to the same conclusion.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think ING are pulling out at the end of their contract? And RBS seem much more belligerent.

[Ocelot]

And RBS seem much more belligerent.

Let's see how long they can keep it up as the pressure grows

[Der Pate]

Maybe without that sponsor-money and the millions of the car-manufaturers F1 will change for good...to the roots of the sport...as long as there are cars on the street, there will be a F1...

[ianselva]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I think ING are pulling out at the end of their contract? And RBS seem much more belligerent.

It has just been announced that Renault are having redundancy talks with 65 employees in their test team and Aero departments.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by ianselva

It has just been announced that Renault are having redundancy talks with 65 employees in their test team and Aero departments.

If they're considering 65 redundancies, it's a graphic illustration of how overstaffed (or overstuffed) F1 teams are these days.

Remind me how many people designed, built and ran the Connew? Fewer than five IIRC ....;)

[Ocelot]

It has just been announced that Renault are having redundancy talks with 65 employees in their test team and Aero departments.

This could well come as a huge shock for some people here. On another thread it was remarked (with seeming surprise) that all teams, except for Force India, are overstaffed. My view (which is now supported by the imminent redundancies...) was that being overstaffed is fine if it goes unnoticed. It gets noticed when the company gets into difficulty and it starts to struggle with its costs. Clearly this is exactly what is likely to happen due to the departure of ING.

[fines]

Pretty soon we historians will suffer, too - they are going to declare all odd years to be redundant... how would that affect F1 statistics?

[ianselva]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

If they're considering 65 redundancies, it's a graphic illustration of how overstaffed (or overstuffed) F1 teams are these days.

Remind me how many people designed, built and ran the Connew? Fewer than five IIRC ....;)

Its not that they are overstaffed , its that they have a windtunnel running 24 x 7 and so need more aero engineers to keep thinking of new aero bits to test.

[Barry Boor]

Remind me how many people designed, built and ran the Connew?

Well, to be fair, there were probably around 8-10 all told. Including Pinky & Perky! But only three full-time......

But then, look where we didn't get to...

[bradbury west]

But just consider the style in which you did not do it
Roger Lund

[Doug Nye]

McLaren are said to be making 19 test team members redundant thanks to Strapped-for-Cash Mosley's in-season testing ban.

DCN

[Ross Stonefeld]

Surely we can have a more intelligent discussion than that.

[Andrew Kitson]

Wow...on the positive side for a change, it would be great if this story from Joe Saward comes off. Adrian Reynard and Virgin in F1?
http://www.grandprix...ns/ns21187.html

[Barry Boor]

Wouldn't it just!

[kayemod]

Originally posted by fines
Pretty soon we historians will suffer, too - they are going to declare all odd years to be redundant...

Great idea, so that's 1939 and 1945 dealt with. (Don't mention the... !!!)

[Ocelot]

Since they aren't nationalised I think both bonuses and sponsorships will continue. "We have contracts" afterall...

RBS' bonuses have hit the wall after the media pressure. What next?
http://news.bbc.co.u...ess/7895235.stm

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Ocelot


RBS' bonuses have hit the wall after the media pressure. What next?
http://news.bbc.co.u...ess/7895235.stm

The item that interested me most in those RBS sponsorship disclosures, was the fact that Sir Jackie was being paid around four million £££ per annum, no doubt 'plus expenses' for what appears to be some not terribly demanding PR duties, the fact that he's apparently best mates with the disgraced Sir Fred is probably not coincidental. Two blokes who actually won races last year probably didn't earn anywhere near that much. No doubt that he's a good ambassador for the sport, but that's certainly a nice little earner for him.

[john ruston]

Seems Honda went to Virgin and did not get positive response!

[Macca]

Originally posted by kayemod


Great idea, so that's 1939 and 1945 dealt with. (Don't mention the... !!!)

..........European Championship points system?

;)

Paul M

[COUGAR508]

Originally posted by Ocelot


RBS' bonuses have hit the wall after the media pressure. What next?
http://news.bbc.co.u...ess/7895235.stm

Well, the F1 sponsorships have been mentioned sporadically in the recent adverse media coverage of RBS. Now that the issue of bonuses has been dealt with, I wonder whether the media will back off, or will they dig deeper into other examples of extravagance?