27 replies to this topic

[petestenning]

The last F2 race held at Crystal Palace Bank Holiday Monday 29th May 1972, before it closed according to the programme shows what a breading ground it was for drivers.
Looking at the entries for two heats and a final this is what it shows;-

Graham Hill -World Champion and a formula one driver , who also won Indianapolis and Le Mans, the only man to do so
Carlos Reutemann- F1 driver of note
Jean-Pierre Beltoise- Monaco winner for BRM
Wilson Fittipaldi-F1 driver
Niki Lauda=F1 World Champion
Patrick Depailler=F1 driver
John Surtees- F1 World Champion and MotorCycle World Champion
Tom Walkinshaw-F1 Team Owner- Europeans touring car Champion
John Watson-Works McLaren Driver and British GP winner
Bob Wollek-World Class Sports car driver
Henri Pescarolo -along with Hill Le Mans winner in a Matra and long time sports car driver
Jochen Mass- F1 driver -GTCC driver -Le Mans driver
Francois Cevert- Matra F1 driver with Jackie Stewart
David Purley-FI driver
Timo Brambilla-F1 driver
Carlos Pace-Works F1 Brabham driver
Mike Hailwood- Motor Cycle world Champion and Surtees F1 driver
Vic Elford-Long time Porsche sports car driver
Jody Scheckter-Ferrari F1 World Champion

So we have 4 who were world F1 champions , 2 who were Motor cycle world Champions, 4 ? Le Mans Winners
One Indy 500 Winner, 16 ? Elford ? F1 drivers

[sterling49]

Originally posted by petestenning
The last F2 race held at Crystal Palace Bank Holiday Monday 29th May 1972, before it closed according to the programme shows what a breading ground it was for drivers.
Looking at the entries for two heats and a final this is what it shows;-


So we have 4 who were world F1 champions , 2 who were Motor cycle world Champions, 4 ? Le Mans Winners
One Indy 500 Winner, 16 ? Elford ? F1 drivers

Pete, I think you will find that Quick Vic drove a Cooper F1 car (not sure if a Maser or B.R.M though?) and I believe a McLaren also. Finished 5th in Monaco GP in the Cooper?

[Smudger]

I'm so sorry I missed that race. I was away at college, having haunted Crystal Palace from 1963-69. Does anyone else remember Graham Hill losing a wheel and spinning through one of the side arches of the bridge? Then getting out of the car and signing autographs for the crowd - who were, of course, protected by some oak paling fencing...

[flat-16]

Originally posted by Smudger
I'm so sorry I missed that race. I was away at college, having haunted Crystal Palace from 1963-69. Does anyone else remember Graham Hill losing a wheel and spinning through one of the side arches of the bridge? Then getting out of the car and signing autographs for the crowd - who were, of course, protected by some oak paling fencing...

Do I remember correctly, in that a certain TNF member took possession of the wheel?




Justin

[Gary C]

'that a certain TNF member took possession of the wheel?'
Oh yes indeedy.

[petestenning]

A couple of othe points here regarding F1 driver , i have a vague recollection thet these two may have raced F1 as well'-
Andrea De Adamich
Silvio Moser


And does the georgous McLaren M21 that Scheckter drove still exist or race?. I was not at Palace but i did see the car at Oulton while spannering with a Saloon car at the same meeting.

Pete

[Andrew Kitson]

I was at that meeting. The F2 final was one of the finest motor races I've ever seen. A fantastic duel between Jody and Mike Hailwood. I'm sure that F2 McLaren is in the Donington collection.

I recall watching from South Tower. David Purley pulled up on the inside on the grass in his 722, got out of the car and was fiddling around in the engine bay. Two marshals approached to push the car, but knowing he would be disqualified if he received outside assistance, he judo kicked them both to the ground in his red mist! He got the car going again but it was misfiring. I think the only supporting races to the 2x F2 heats + final were two RAC saloon races, baby classes in one and the big bangers in the other.

Still miss the Palace very much, but even if it came back, it could never ever be the same again in this nanny state.

[alansart]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
I'm sure that F2 McLaren is in the Donington collection.

Yes it is.



I was at Crystal Palace for the last F2 race occupying my normal spot at North Tower. Happy days

It was a great little circuit and a real shame it's gone.

[jatwarks]

Yep, I was there too. The meeting was the only other one that I made a point of attending every year (along with the GP). I used to cycle to the track from West London (as I did to Brands & Silverstone in those energetic days).

Usually I was out along the back straight. The drivers would screech to a halt to perform a practice start on the way to the grid.

Am I right in thinking that Ronnie Peterson was there too, or was it another year that he led from pole, only to coast into the pits at the end of the first lap with a dead engine, before the rest caught him ?

Can you imagine a circuit today with earth banks, faced with railway sleepers, just a few feet from the track edge ?

From (unreliable) memory, didn't De Adamich drive a Surtees in F1 ?

I think Moser raced F1 too, but can't remember any details.

Jim.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by jatwarks
From (unreliable) memory, didn't De Adamich drive a Surtees in F1 ?

Yes, he broke his leg(s)? in Jody's F1 pile-up in the '73 British GP.

[alansart]

Originally posted by jatwarks


I think Moser raced F1 too, but can't remember any details.

Jim.

Moser was in 20 GP's between 1966 and 1971.

[alansart]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

Yes, he broke his leg(s)? in Jody's F1 pile-up in the '73 British GP.

In a Brabham.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by alansart


In a Brabham.

Oh yes of course, Brabham. Surtees had all three of his cars wiped out IIRC.
I also saw De Adamich in a Surtees TS9B in the '72 Brands GP. I think he crashed early on?

Gregor tells me he has movie film of this '72 F2 Palace meeting. Would love to see it!

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by petestenning
A couple of othe points here regarding F1 driver , i have a vague recollection thet these two may have raced F1 as well'-
Andrea De Adamich
Silvio Moser

Pete

Quite so: see

Andrea de Adamich (36 races)

and
Silvio Moser (19 races)

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

Yes, he broke his leg(s)? in Jody's F1 pile-up in the '73 British GP.

He did not do himself (or his car) any good when he hit the concrete marshalls post on the entry to Paddock in '69 (?) when a works Ferrari driver.

[alansart]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

Oh yes of course, Brabham. Surtees had all three of his cars wiped out IIRC.

Scheckter wasn't very popular with Surtees afterwards!

[Milan Fistonic]

I've been sorting out my Autosports and had this one out.

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

THIS WAS MY FIRST VIST TO THE PALACE , COMPLETLEY TAKEN BY IT , MADE IT BACK FOR THE FINAL EVENT IN SEPTEMBER, STILL MISS IT.

[petestenning]

The list gets bigger i see Beuttler also drove a March F1 car.
Tom Belso-Williams 74
Jose Dolhem -Surtees 74
Brett Lunger-Hesketh 75
Dave Morgan-Surtees 75

And also interetsingly the one and only F1 Grand Prix for Graham Mcrae, allthough not at Palace was at that Grand prix at Silverstone


Pete

[alansart]

The race also hit the papers next day with photos of Dick Barker jumping from his burning Brabham.

[Odseybod]

When I worked for a (very) large ad agency in the late '80s, they held a team-building exercise at the Crystal Palace athletics stadium - a sort of school sports day for (alledged) grown-ups. Not being very excited by the properetc of watching my more energetic colleagues falling over hurdles, I snuck out and wandered round a lap of the old circuit instead, which was stil possible (at least, in those days - don't know if it still is).

Gosh, even at walking pace it was narrow - even narrower than I remembered from watxching various races there. I hadn't quite realised what very large 'credentials' those who raced there had, particularly behind the wheel of rapid F2 cars or the wide Camaeros. As someone suggested, Elfin Safety would be deeply disturbed if they ever caught sight of it and were told what went on there.

[Barry Boor]

Do I remember correctly, in that a certain TNF member took possession of the wheel?

[petestenning]

Another thing that strikes you about this race is the number of different Chassis;-

Brabhams , March , Lotus and Surtees of the larger manufaturers plus the not so mass manufacturers.

Like John Watsons Tui BH2, and the PygmeeMDB17 which were no shows, Chevron B18C & B20, and GRD 272 'S and last but not least that McLaren M21. Chevron would normally be a major manufacturer but with only 2 cars entered is in the later catergory.

Unlike the present day allmost one make racing.



Pete

[Paul Parker]

I attended many races at the Palace including the F2 events and the final meeting for historics in Sepember '72 and they were invariably fantastic.

This included being trackside at North Tower in I think 1971 when I noticed an sudden eruption of pigeons out one of the many rhododendron bushes infield, followed milliseconds later by Dennis Leech's spinning Ford Mustang smashing right through the centre of the foliage.

Or watching Brian Muir in the handsome dark blue Wiggins Teape Chevy Camaro from behind a large tree infield as he thundered past only feet away.

This was proper motor racing in the true sense and perhaps the most unlikely spectacle was watching the huge Ford Galaxies there in 1963.

Happy days indeed.

[fines]

Originally posted by petestenning
Another thing that strikes you about this race is the number of different Chassis

Yes, what a shameful disgrace!

Thankfully, they changed that, and today we have a nice and orderly procession of cookie-cutter identicars. You can still differentiate them by the sponsor's colours, so what's the use of this wasteful variety?

My oh my, they did everything wrong in the old days, didn't they?

[RAP]

I hope no one will be offended by me mentioning this, but if you want all the facts and figures relating to Crystal Palace with entries, results etc of every race held there (not just the F2 ones) this is the book you need -
http://www.formulaon...CP brochure.pdf

[Rob29]

Originally posted by RAP
I hope no one will be offended by me mentioning this, but if you want all the facts and figures relating to Crystal Palace with entries, results etc of every race held there (not just the F2 ones) this is the book you need -
http://www.formulaon...CP brochure.pdf

Amazing I do not seem to have heard of these books before.Already have 2 books on the 'Palace,not sure I can afford a third at that price.

[RAP]

Originally posted by Rob29
Amazing I do not seem to have heard of these books before.Already have 2 books on the 'Palace,not sure I can afford a third at that price.

Rob
It all depends on what you want. Collins' book is basically pictures. Parfitts' book provides an excellent overall history. "A Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace" could be seen as a (very) detailed Appendix to Parfitt and is therefore for those who want all the detail. For example it records the results of over 20 meetings on the velodrome between 1899 & 1906 (mainly motorcycle and tricycle) aswell as the full entry lists, grids, results and descriptions (with lap charts for the major races) for the car races on the road course between 1937 and 1972. Bike racing is also covered. Obviously its not cheap, but you won't find the depth of information anywhere else if that's what interests you.

RAP