43 replies to this topic

[skid solo]

I saw earlier in this Forum the most unlikely world champions, one of which was named as John Watson! As I am old enough to have watched him and my memory just good enough to remember.. he never was world champ, I thought a more useful category to put him in is greatest driver never to win the world championship. Unfortunately for him there were greater drivers who never did.

My nomination is Gilles Villeneuve who I believe would have taken the championship in 1982 if not for his desperate attempt to out qualify his team mate Didier Pironi on worn qualifying tyres at Zolder. RIP Gilles

[Risil]

A.J. Foyt, no question.

[Rob]

Wolfgang von Trips.

[as65p]

Lewis?

[howardt]

Stirling Moss. This thread should be in Nostalgia.

[ensign14]

If we restrict it to drivers that took part in the World Championship, Stirling Moss.

I would have been fascinated to have seen AJ in F1. 100% record au Mans.

[Imperial]

World Championship: Stirling Moss

F1 Grand Prix: Juan Pablo Montoya



This should be on Nostalgia though.

[Risil]

Originally posted by ensign14
If we restrict it to drivers that took part in the World Championship, Stirling Moss.

Didn't Tex take part in the last 'World Championship' Indy 500, though? Unless the OP wants to bring Formula One into this, or maybe add the premod of 'European', I'm afraid A.J.'s in the game.;)

[ensign14]

True, although to AJ he was taking part in the Indy 500 which happened to be in the World Championship (1958-1960), rather than taking part in the World Champioship. (One of the ironies that involving Indy was meant to bring Indy and F1 closer together, which only really happened from 1961...)

[scheivlak]

Must be the 3rd or 4th version of this poll at least.

The right answer is of course Stirling Moss.

[secessionman]

Stirling Moss surely wins this accolade without question but there were some great drivers in my formative years of watching the sport that would have made great champions, Gilles Villeneuve, Ronnie Peterson, Clay Regazzoni, Patrick Depailler, Jacques Laffite. You then have the likes of Cevert and Pryce who perished before their F1 career really began.

Considering there were 10 different World Champions between 1970-1982 I find it astonishing that none of these drivers ever won a title, and even though there have been far fewer World Champions pro rata since then, I am struggling to think of anyone since who warrants a mention, maybe Berger or Montoya.

[Risil]

Originally posted by secessionman

Considering there were 10 different World Champions between 1970-1982 I find it astonishing that none of these drivers ever won a title, and even though there have been far fewer World Champions pro rata since then, I am struggling to think of anyone since who warrants a mention, maybe Berger or Montoya.

I think a lot of it's down to the small number of drivers who monopolised the best drives, and the increasing inability of newer teams to break through into the front rank. Hence the only drivers who gave the impression of being capable of World Championships were the ones who were winning regularly.

[howardt]

Another contender for this prize : Chris Amon
- he was a very serious challenger in 1968. 3 pole positions, led I don't know how many laps, but always suffered bizarre mechanical failures in a Mark Webber style.

Regarding Amon's famous bad luck in F1, Mario Andretti once said: "if he became an undertaker, people would stop dying".

From Wikipedia :
Despite never winning a championship Formula One Grand Prix, Amon won eight non-championship GPs, the Silverstone International Trophy, the 1000km Monza, the Daytona 24 Hours, the Tasman Series and the 24 Heures du Mans. Many of these races attracted some of Amon's otherwise more successful fellow F1 drivers, all of whom he was able to beat.

[MichaelPM]

Jean Alesi deserves a mention I think.

[BMW_F1]

Juan Pablo Montoya

[minigeff]

Originally posted by howardt
Stirling Moss. This thread should be in Nostalgia.

agreed 100%.

why was this thread started when its an obvious answer?

[santori]

Heinz-Harald Frentzen. I can prove it with science.

[otoelpiloto]

lewis hamilton one of the greatest ever...but a choker at the end

[secessionman]

Originally posted by otoelpiloto
lewis hamilton one of the greatest ever...but a choker at the end

I'm certainly no Hamilton fan but it doesn't half annoy me how you cannot read any thread on this board anymore that does not degenerate into one of the following :

Hamilton v Alonso
Hamilton v Massa
Hamilton v The Fia
Hamilton v Hamilton

Please can I urge the mods to start removing petty fanboy comments from threads in which they have no place.

[otoelpiloto]

Originally posted by secessionman


I'm certainly no Hamilton fan but it doesn't half annoy me how you cannot read any thread on this board anymore that does not degenerate into one of the following :

Hamilton v Alonso
Hamilton v Massa
Hamilton v The Fia
Hamilton v Hamilton

Please can I urge the mods to start removing petty fanboy comments from threads in which they have no place.

that's my opinion and you won't force me to change my opinion just because don't want to read nothing against hamilton. I just answer the question, if you don't like my response, just feel free to use your ignore list

[renzobalbo]

Jacques Lafitte and JP Montoya

[Andy35]

Me of course.

I'm not prepared to forgoe the beer and pies though. I could have been a Godsend to Bernie as well, what with my filmstar looks and Oscar Wilde wit and repartee. Instead he got boring old Schumacher.

Regards

Andy

[Hacklerf]

Stirling Moss & Gilles Villeneuve for me

[Schuperman]

Originally posted by otoelpiloto
lewis hamilton one of the greatest ever...but a choker at the end

One of the greatest ever? Based on how he matched Alonso in his rookie season, very highly likely.. Age is on his side. He is driving one of the best team and contracted up to 2012. Time will tell.

A choker? A driver that stand the best chance to win the WDC (better than his own teammate) and had some mechanical or whatever gremlins on his car is not a choker.

To the original thread, IMO Stirling Moss and Gilles Villeneuve must be the top contender.

[secessionman]

Originally posted by otoelpiloto
that's my opinion and you won't force me to change my opinion

I actually agree with most of your opinions and preferences, my point being that there is no need to take every thread back to the same topic just for the sake of it.

[RodrigoL]

Satoru Nakajima

[noikeee]

Based on what I've read, I agree with most in naming Stirling Moss as the #1 candidate for this unofficial title, and Gilles Villeneuve as #2.

[Kooper]

AJ Foyt is the greatest driver, period. He won every type of racing he attempted. The man even built his own Indy cars. I read once where he talks about F1 and stated he would have liked to competed in it but refused after learning that leading drivers often took their teammates car (Fangio for example). I don't think he felt he would be given a fair chance as an American.

[skid solo]

why was this thread started when its an obvious answer?
_______________________________________________________

To have a rest from Penalty-gate!

[britishtrident]

Apart from Moss, Chris Amon of course -- he never won a single Championship race mainly because the Ferrari of those days was a dog, but Amon was still rated by his peers as close to Clark in ability. Bruce McLaren also springs to mind. Both suffered from uncompetitive or unreliable cars and racing against not only Clark but other very able contemporaries such as Jack Brabham, Denny Hulme, Graham Hill and John Surtees.

[Risil]

If we're talking about natural talent and speed behind the wheel alone, Carlos Reutemann needs to be very very prominent. But people like him, or Capelli, or Alesi, probably need a separate thread, of drivers who didn't have the temperament, let alone the breaks, to win the world title.

[britishtrident]

Originally posted by Kooper
AJ Foyt is the greatest driver, period. He won every type of racing he attempted. The man even built his own Indy cars. I read once where he talks about F1 and stated he would have liked to competed in it but refused after learning that leading drivers often took their teammates car (Fangio for example). I don't think he felt he would be given a fair chance as an American.

Sounds a bit like a made up interview ...... you might want to read up on the history of the brits (and other F1 drivers including Brabham and Hulme) at the brickyard in the early 1960s. boot was rather on the other foot some of the tactics invented to stop them winning would worthy of the current bunch of F1 stewards, in contrast istr Phill Hill, Dan Gurney and Ritchie Ginther and Mario Andretti were all welcome in F1.

Foyt was a great driver but he didn't drive F1 and remember had been beaten on his home turf by Clark, Stewart & Graham Hill.

[Risil]

Originally posted by britishtrident


Foyt was a great driver but he didn't drive F1 and remember had been beaten on his home turf by Clark, Stewart & Graham Hill.

Ah, the Indy 500, that renowned test of driver ability to the exclusion of all other factors. :

Anyway, during Clark's Indy 500 victory, Foyt was the only other man to have led any laps. Foyt's 'home turf' was arguably not open-wheel, superspeedway racing also.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

Stirling Moss for me.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Moss for me, although I was obviously never around to see him race, from the generation I've grown up with it would probably be someone like Frentzen

[snash]

Originally posted by Hacklerf
Stirling Moss & Gilles Villeneuve for me

Ditto

[Andretti Fan]

Dan Gurney. I know it's probably an urban legend, but the story goes that at Clarks funeral, his dad said that Gurney was the only driver that Clark really feared.

[Frans]

Jos Verstappen of course!

[Lifew12]

Originally posted by howardt

Despite never winning a championship Formula One Grand Prix, Amon won eight non-championship GPs,

A very fine driver by anyone's account, but if you can find eight 'non championship GP's' that he won, you're amending history.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Andretti Fan
Dan Gurney. I know it's probably an urban legend, but the story goes that at Clarks funeral, his dad said that Gurney was the only driver that Clark really feared.

Apparently Jim's dad told Dan Gurney. AFAIK it's not urban myth. Gurney was another versatile one, I think the only one to have won Grands Prix, NASCAR, Champ Car and Le Mans.

[pacwest]

Gilles. x3425668

[skinnylizard]

Originally posted by ensign14

Apparently Jim's dad told Dan Gurney. AFAIK it's not urban myth. Gurney was another versatile one, I think the only one to have won Grands Prix, NASCAR, Champ Car and Le Mans.

Andretti won them all as well.

id vote for Gilles, Moss.

[Collective]

Michel Andretti

I'm kidding, of course.

It has to be Gilles.

[Rob]

Originally posted by skinnylizard
Andretti won them all as well.

Didn't win Le Mans.