29 replies to this topic

[equality]

I was under the impression there are places to overtake cars on this track, notably on the back straight with a tight hairpin after.

But reading Webbers post race comments im beginning to doubt that a bit. He says its more difficult that fuji, a tarck wich i thought was real hard to overtake. How does it come over to you guys? Is this another mistake of bernie or will the race be worth watching?

[Ross Stonefeld]

There is the possibility to overtake, but don't suddenly expect more than we get in a normal weekend.

[kar]

It's possible to overtake, but not easy.

If it stays dry there will be very few changes of position on track.

It's a very aero sensitive circuit and the big straights are preceded by fast corners that you can't keep close enough to the guy in front in.

So no it's not good for overtaking at all.

And it's an awfully ugly desolate souless circuit.

[sa87uk]

well it has got a long back straight and we did see plenty off passes last year but it was wet. the problem is a huge straight isnt always good enough for overtaking in modern f1, there needs to be other variables, rain, wind, fuel loads, tires and the stewards not applying penalties.

[noikeee]

It's hard to pass because the only long straight followed by an hairpin is preceded by that weird turn with banking that the cars exit out of at mid/high speeds, and I bet it's hard to follow closely any car there. There's another 2 unlikely but possible passing points: turn 6 (but the straight is too short and it has a kink), and turn 11 (but the straight comes out of a series of fast corners that disrupt the aero).

Fuji is better for passing in theory, because it has a badass super long straight preceded by a series of slow corners, that ends in an hairpin. Also at the chicane where Massa hit Hamilton. Tbh I was expecting a little more passing action at Fuji.

This is all just based on the simple theory that fast corners ruin the aero and that's the main reason why passing doesn't happen. We've had debates on this previously and some people had different opinions - for example that japanese guy that posts a lot on technical regulations, he is of the opinion that some quick corners are more sensible than others, not just due to speed but depending on its geometry. He sure as hell knows a lot more about aerodynamics than me...

I think Fuji would have been mad if it wasn't for the rev limiter on the engines, the best engines would make a lot of difference in that huge straight, and there'd be more DNFs with smoke coming out of the back of the cars...

[wj_gibson]

I think the Shanghai circuit is just a really horrible place.

[metz]

It's possible to overtake before the last corner.
Just ask DC...;)

[noikeee]

Originally posted by wj_gibson
I think the Shanghai circuit is just a really horrible place.

I think it's very technically challenging and has some of the most badass buildings in the schedule, but Tilke could've come up with something a little less similar to Sepang (compare turns 7-8-9-10 at Shanghai to turns 5-6-7-8 at Sepang!) and it looks bad on TV with all the tarmac runoffs, the wideness of the track tarmac itself, and the elevation changes being for the most part subtle-looking on TV.

IMO it's decent but could be better.

[Enkei]

I think it's one of the nicer modern circuits. I especially like the banking on the back straight and the parabolic turn 1.

[Risil]

Originally posted by Enkei
I think it's one of the nicer modern circuits. I especially like the banking on the back straight and the parabolic turn 1.

Given the fact that it was built on a swamp, with basically an unlimited budget, I don't think Tilke did too bad a job.

[Tomecek]

It's not easy to overtake due to high number of fast corners. Cars cannot follow each other quite closely, but I hope this will change from next year on...

[noikeee]

Originally posted by Risil


Given the fact that it was built on a swamp, with basically an unlimited budget, I don't think Tilke did too bad a job.

Yeah, I don't think it's Tilke's fault that the place seems like a soulless dump...

[pingu666]

can probably overtake into turn 1, that loong back straight ud need to run a different line to the guy infront (like IRL oval)

i think they may have gone with a short first stint for lewis so they can switch to a 3stop possibly

[abc]

One of the worst in terms of overtaking.

[Clatter]

Judging by the last race, then Ferrari have a huge advantage down the straights compared to most teams, so they should be able to pass people if required.

[917k]

Originally posted by abc
One of the worst in terms of overtaking.

Everyone is talking like this is the 1st race here! Look at past races instead of guessing.

The races here, in the past, have generally been very good, with lots of overtaking, more than most circuits I'm sure. There have been a clunker or two, but otherwise better than average. Check overtaking stats.at Forix ort where ever.

[stevewf1]

I've always thought that in "modern F1", there aren't any circuits which are good for overtaking... That's the very definition of modern F1 - isn't it? :

[abc]

Originally posted by 917k



Everyone is talking like this is the 1st race here! Look at past races instead of guessing.

The races here, in the past, have generally been very good, with lots of overtaking, more than most circuits I'm sure. There have been a clunker or two, but otherwise better than average. Check overtaking stats.at Forix ort where ever.

Oh please
If we speak about dry condition, there is no possibility for overtaking. Its really that bad.
I can think of only following circuits worse or about the same in this department:
Malaysia, Barcelona, Monaco, Hungary, Valencia, Singapur

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by Enkei
I think it's one of the nicer modern circuits. I especially like the banking on the back straight and the parabolic turn 1.

I like that corner too, but the left hander before it is pointless. It would have been better had they made it a simply 180º banked corner to test drivers and cars.


About the rest of circuit, it's as good as any other track for overtaking. It's really about the cars.

[equality]

what a shame. another bernie ecclestone track wich is beyond boring.

[volvo Death Spell]

Originally posted by Atreiu



I like that corner too, but the left hander before it is pointless. It would have been better had they made it a simply 180º banked corner to test drivers and cars.


About the rest of circuit, it's as good as any other track for overtaking. It's really about the cars.

I was going to say a similar thing myself, if only they could break away from modern conventions but it won't happen. I don't mind China too much though its quite a good circuit. I'm going back to bed now!

[jk]

Originally posted by stevewf1
I've always thought that in "modern F1", there aren't any circuits which are good for overtaking... That's the very definition of modern F1 - isn't it? :

Interlagos is. That huge front straight always give lots of overtaking into the first chicane. Just look at Michael in his farewell race.

[Lazy Prodigy]

Originally posted by Atreiu



I like that corner too, but the left hander before it is pointless. It would have been better had they made it a simply 180º banked corner to test drivers and cars.


About the rest of circuit, it's as good as any other track for overtaking. It's really about the cars.

[Bernd Rosemeyer]

It's certainly better than Hungaroring, Magny Cours or Barcelona. But it's not excellent with modern cars. I guess would have been good in the early nineties or so.

[fnz]

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
It's certainly better than Hungaroring, Magny Cours or Barcelona. But it's not excellent with modern cars. I guess would have been good in the early nineties or so.

or next season!

[wewantourdarbyback]

It was fine for the first 5 or so laps, but then other than Massa's stunning use of the slipstream against Kimi there was relatively little action

[fnz]

there was a moment when piquet got overtaken if i remember correctly

[JamboGT]

Rosberg made a few passes.

[equality]

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
It's certainly better than Hungaroring, Magny Cours or Barcelona. But it's not excellent with modern cars. I guess would have been good in the early nineties or so.

There are a few nice corners but overall i think it isnt bringing any spectacle. I turned my tv off with 25 laps to go and followed the rest via F1 livetiming. Surely that isnt the idea of watching F1? I thought they wanted to improve the show? Im really beginning to doubt ecclestones brainpower lately.

- singapore was bad

- valencia was bad

- china was bad

- fuji was dull

All new tracks that supposed to be erasing tracks like montreal or silverstone. And indeed, then we have borefests like hungaroring, monaco, barcelona and magny cours. Thats 8 races where you can stay in bed for.

[prxty]

The answer to the question is not. But what track is good for overtaking? Really none in normal situations.
If the majority of the tracks are bad for overtaking you should not blame the tracks but look elsewhere.

I think that the problem are the cars.
Too much aero dependent and too few errors possible (electronic, tyres, ...).