536 replies to this topic

[Devero]

Very interesting

Helsingin Sanomat
October 17, 2008
Shanghai

"Lewis is an aggressive and an uncompromising driver, whose reactions can be fierce. And at times they have been excessive," says Kovalainen.

"I've had to dodge his moves myself a couple of times, and I've made it clear to him that I won't be doing that indefinitely. If nothing changes, we're bound to have a collision between us at some point."


For next season, Kovalainen is also calling out for a different attitude towards him from his team.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that, barring one instance (British GP), I've had a heavier fuel load than Lewis in qualifying."

"If you want to have a shot at the championship, you have to qualify in the front row. Even after a good qualifying performance, I'm starting in 4th, 5th or 6th. That doesn't help your race at all."

[fnz]

and this is how it started.....

[pottiella]

if the widely accepted 'nicest driver in formula one' speaks like this, you have to start to wonder....

Dare I also say, Heikki had gotten very used to the Renault 'spirited' environment; life is going to fizzle out at McLaren.

The difference is, he won't do an Alonso and rebel. He doesn't have the credentials (where alonso could justifiably cry "double world champion") or the temperament (latin a la senna, montoya) to show McLaren up. He knows he's in a great position, both financially and at least with a car to fight at the front.

I doubt there will e much trouble - McLaren PR will take care of that.

[fnz]

Originally posted by pottiella
I doubt there will e much trouble - McLaren PR will take care of that.

If there is realy something boiling, not much PR can do about that.

[Clatter]

Easy to make up excuses, but it's race pace that has let him down, even when running in clear air. The really telling race was Germany. LH came out from his last stop behind HK, and yet went on to win the race, HK didnt advance one place. Same load, same tyres, same people to overtake. It's a shame because I was expecting a bit more from him this year.

[pottiella]

Originally posted by fnz


If there is realy something boiling, not much PR can do about that.

yes they can - they already have once this year. Which race was it that Heikki had to let Lewis pass, because Lewis was right behind and was faster, given the ferraris were behind? I'm sure if I weren't so lazy I could find out!

But anyway, on that occasion, Heikki was not happy with having to let lewis passed - he made a single disgruntled comment that insinuated he was 'urged' to let lewis pass. Within 24hrs of it spreading through the press, Heikki made a second, 'neater' comment of how he did not think there were team orders and that he had to problem playing the team game.

This could easily have been just Heikki clarifying it, but it coincided with Ron Dennis saying pretty much 'Heikki will do the right thing'.

It doesn't take a genius...we've been here a thousand times over the years with Ron Dennis' insinuations nad these scenarios.

If he has enough to buckle his drivers down with (and in Heikki's case, he very much does, as Heikki doesn't have much else to stand on except the opportunity given by McLaren), Ron Dennis and his PR Brigade will make sure Heikki is kept in line.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by pottiella



yes they can - they already have once this year. Which race was it that Heikki had to let Lewis pass, because Lewis was right behind and was faster, given the ferraris were behind? I'm sure if I weren't so lazy I could find out!

But anyway, on that occasion, Heikki was not happy with having to let lewis passed - he made a single disgruntled comment that insinuated he was 'urged' to let lewis pass. Within 24hrs of it spreading through the press, Heikki made a second, 'neater' comment of how he did not think there were team orders and that he had to problem playing the team game.

This could easily have been just Heikki clarifying it, but it coincided with Ron Dennis saying pretty much 'Heikki will do the right thing'.

It doesn't take a genius...we've been here a thousand times over the years with Ron Dennis' insinuations nad these scenarios.

If he has enough to buckle his drivers down with (and in Heikki's case, he very much does, as Heikki doesn't have much else to stand on except the opportunity given by McLaren), Ron Dennis and his PR Brigade will make sure Heikki is kept in line.

He should drive faster then and the problem would never arise. If a driver is being asked to let his faster team mate pass, then he needs to look to himself rather than complain.

[pottiella]

Originally posted by Clatter
Easy to make up excuses, but it's race pace that has let him down, even when running in clear air. The really telling race was Germany. LH came out from his last stop behind HK, and yet went on to win the race, HK didnt advance one place. Same load, same tyres, same people to overtake. It's a shame because I was expecting a bit more from him this year.

with all due respect, I don't think that's the point. Heikki seems more miffed with the situation rather than the results...he's already been critical of himself about results. And how would McLaren know Heikki would be slower in race pace when he's given a heavier fuel load early in the season? There has to be good reasoning to do so...

I take all media reports with a pinch of salt anyway, as they'll look for anything to stir - and I do believe that led to the breakdown of Alonso/Hamilton rather than the team situation in their personal case - and frankly, I don't particularly care anymore what happens at McLaren since the times I recognised Ron Dennis looking right through DC for Mika Hakkinen (when the likes of Lewis and co were bearly old enough to have a girlfriend!)....but the consistency over the decades is fascinating.

[edit] McLaren were my first love in Formula One - their car was/is beautiful! But I was very young and the older I got and the more I followed F1 to understand that it was all face for McLaren given their corporate ways, it put me off. I grew uncomfortable with what seemed to really lie beneath that beautiful shimmering silver face - all because of this sort of thing, well before Lewis Hamilton turned up.

I'd love to find a reason to love them again. I increasingly struggle....

....maybe when Ron retires, and the ever amiable Martin Whitmarsh takes over....

[Nitropower]

What did you expect lil Heikki?
You are not as good as Hamilton tbh.

But you are right the team is not being fair. You should've learned from others' experience. Always heavier and what a coincidence only he looked like having mechanical problems this season in Macca.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by pottiella


with all due respect, I don't think that's the point. Heikki seems more miffed with the situation rather than the results...he's already been critical of himself about results. And how would McLaren know Heikki would be slower in race pace when he's given a heavier fuel load early in the season? There has to be good reasoning to do so...

I take all media reports with a pinch of salt anyway, as they'll look for anything to stir - and I do believe that led to the breakdown of Alonso/Hamilton rather than the team situation in their personal case - and frankly, I don't particularly care anymore what happens at McLaren since the times I recognised Ron Dennis looking right through DC for Mika Hakkinen (when the likes of Lewis and co were bearly old enough to have a girlfriend!)....but the consistency over the decades is fascinating.

The thing is I think he is the architect of his situation. He has shown almost all season that he has been lacking race pace, whereas LH has been wringing everything out of the car. In that situation it makes sense for a team to put their apples in the fastest basket.

[Juan Kerr]

Originally posted by pottiella
if the widely accepted 'nicest driver in formula one' speaks like this, you have to start to wonder....

Dare I also say, Heikki had gotten very used to the Renault 'spirited' environment; life is going to fizzle out at McLaren.

The difference is, he won't do an Alonso and rebel. He doesn't have the credentials (where alonso could justifiably cry "double world champion") or the temperament (latin a la senna, montoya) to show McLaren up. He knows he's in a great position, both financially and at least with a car to fight at the front.

I doubt there will e much trouble - McLaren PR will take care of that.

He's just a bit jealous its only natural.

[SevenTwoSeven]

Interesting. I think its safe to assume (or not maybe!!) he would have got exactly the same treatment (or worse possibly) had he stayed at Renault once the 2 x WDC loyal son from heaven returned, from ironicaly, McLaren, which freed up the seat hes got now. Im sure Alonso wanted a sure fire number 2 in the car alongside him at Renault, rather than one that was seemingly improving in his later races whilst at Renault.

Although i dont understand why they always insist on fueling him heavy, if anything to help with the WCC, its apparent that he hasnt really matched Hamilton in the races, although hes often given him a run for his money during qualifying. Especailly at Silverstone. Where as he says, he wasnt fueled as heavy as normal. Once Hamilton got past, or was let past, Hamilton was in a different leauge that day. Im sure he would have got past regardless.

[DaleCooper]

Originally posted by pottiella


with all due respect, I don't think that's the point. Heikki seems more miffed with the situation rather than the results...he's already been critical of himself about results. And how would McLaren know Heikki would be slower in race pace when he's given a heavier fuel load early in the season? There has to be good reasoning to do so...

I take all media reports with a pinch of salt anyway, as they'll look for anything to stir - and I do believe that led to the breakdown of Alonso/Hamilton rather than the team situation in their personal case - and frankly, I don't particularly care anymore what happens at McLaren since the times I recognised Ron Dennis looking right through DC for Mika Hakkinen (when the likes of Lewis and co were bearly old enough to have a girlfriend!)....but the consistency over the decades is fascinating.

[edit] McLaren were my first love in Formula One - their car was/is beautiful! But I was very young and the older I got and the more I followed F1 to understand that it was all face for McLaren given their corporate ways, it put me off. I grew uncomfortable with what seemed to really lie beneath that beautiful shimmering silver face - all because of this sort of thing, well before Lewis Hamilton turned up.

I'd love to find a reason to love them again. I increasingly struggle....

....maybe when Ron retires, and the ever amiable Martin Whitmarsh takes over....

Hey Fernando is that you ?!?

Man you should be working hard on making Flabio love you more, not dwelling on McChicken.;)


Cooper

[pottiella]

Originally posted by SevenTwoSeven
Interesting. I think its safe to assume (or not maybe!!) he would have got exactly the same treatment (or worse possibly) had he stayed at Renault once the 2 x WDC loyal son from heaven returned.....

Pat Symonds would never have allowed that to happen. I'd bet my house on that. Above all, the team adored (still do) Heikki just as much as Fernando.

There are only two people in F1 who Alonso seems to think has earned the right to give him a slap in public; Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds...both of whom have been quite publically critical of Alonso if he makes a mistake or steps out of line, and Alonso hasn't reacted to except get his head down and back into shape. Pat wouldn't hold back if that were such a demand from Alonso (which I doubt given he never did with Fisichella, nor does with Piquet, and given his relationship with Heikki), and Pat certainly hasn't held back this year about his own opinions, for which Renault Communications have had to distance themselves at times from but not gag Pat.

That's the difference between Renault and McLaren. They've all got their corporate heads - the sport is a business - but its how sincerely they go about it that makes all the difference.

[pRy]

"How to lose your drive" by H. Kovalainen

[pingu666]

he doesnt have the race pace currently, yes he runs heavy but he will have the lighter/shorter stints after, and hes had some bad luck too...

he needs to analysis whats making lewis successful, whats impacting negativly on him, and what canbe done to help him.

[jigc]

can i give this excuse:

if u r more fueled loaded, u used up ur rubber at slow pace.
when ur fuel is low, ur pace is slow as well because ur rubber is not good anymore

[Lazarus II]

Heikki, destiny is calling.....#2

[Clatter]

Originally posted by jigc
can i give this excuse:

if u r more fueled loaded, u used up ur rubber at slow pace.
when ur fuel is low, ur pace is slow as well because ur rubber is not good anymore

OK, that may be true for the first stint, whats your excuse for the rest of the race?

[Zarathustra]

Strategy differences alone don't nearly explain the massive gulf between Lewis' and Heikki's results this season. I do like Heikki but he's just got to drive a bit faster! He just doesn't take points off the Ferraris - I really will hold him responsible if the team don't take home both championships. Lewis has shown the machinery is good enough.

[pingu666]

drivers championship is more out of his hands, but constructors he needs to score points... but thats actully pretty normal, often the number 2's (at this stage of the season) are normaly behind the two fighting for the championship :

[Powersteer]

Kovalainen's race pace is just not like his pre-race speed. We have seen great drivers with heavy fuel loads make for a cracking race which is just not the case with Heiki.

[jondon]

ban mid race refuelling, reinstate low fuel qualifying and the majority of speculation of favouritism of one driver over the other will be diminished (N.B. I said "diminished" rather than "stamped out").
If all drivers qualify on low fuel loads and start the race with just enough fuel to complete the race, the fastest drivers will be towards the front of the grid, and if all drivers start with "full" fuel loads it`s up to their racecraft of saving and spending fuel at critical moments during each and every race.... Add to that the lightning quick tyre changes from the late eighties and early ninties and we will be back to real racing. Driver against driver, team against team, etc. (anyone remember the good old days?)
seems to be quite simple to me at least.....

[Lazy Prodigy]

Well what did he expect? He is not Alonso a double wdc

[Mauseri]

Yesterday Kovalainen complained after the qualifying as if McLaren stuffed up his tyres for second run to make sure Lewis is in front of him.

Even with less fuel qualifying it's possible to order things, ruining tyre pressures for example.

[Atreiu]

Originally posted by micra_k10
Yesterday Kovalainen complained after the qualifying as if McLaren stuffed up his tyres for second run to make sure Lewis is in front of him.

Even with less fuel qualifying it's possible to order things, ruining tyre pressures for example.

That would make sense if the title wasn't on the line and McLaren had no special reason to try to get Kovalainen on the front row.

There are manu things possible and complaining with little or no reason is always one of them.

[Mauseri]

Does this mean that Kova intends to change teams for next year?

[Trident]

About time he spoke out but its too late. He should have made his stand at the beginning of the season. Mclarens hypocrisy is pathetic, I have never seen such one sided treatment in a team. Even Rubens had fuel load parity against Michael.

[P1McLarenMercedes]

If heikki was so ****ed off with the situation at mclaren he wouldn't have taken up the offer mclaren gave him, and hed look for alternative employment. He wants to stay at mclaren for a reason, and, given he resigned, id say he think theyre going to give him a car to win the WC in 09. Its only natural for him to want a bit more of the bargain in fuel strategy for next year, but the reality is 2008 was always going to be a learning/transitional year for heikki. We'll see if he whinges next year.

Case closed.

[mursuka80]

I was wondering when Heikki would say something. I didnt think he had the BALLS to say anything,but you guys have to agree that its not right to make your driver drive with heavy fuel-load 95% of the time.

[mursuka80]

Originally posted by P1McLarenMercedes
If heikki was so ****ed off with the situation at mclaren he wouldn't have taken up the offer mclaren gave him, and hed look for alternative employment. He wants to stay at mclaren for a reason, and, given he resigned, id say he think theyre going to give him a car to win the WC in 09. Its only natural for him to want a bit more of the bargain in fuel strategy for next year, but the reality is 2008 was always going to be a learning/transitional year for heikki. We'll see if he whinges next year.

Case closed.

So heikki shouldnt say anything about the policy that "Lewis first and then you"? Lewis got good strategys last year so why is this in your opinion a learning year?

[pottiella]

I think people are missing the point here a bit. Heikki isn't like most other racing drivers who have a really high opinion of themselves. He's very widely known and liked because he doesn't cause a fuss, he doesn't complain unecessarily, is incredibly rational to know what is justified when it comes to himself rather than making excuses, and most of all doesn't show jealous streaks that most other drivers do. He's always happy for everyone else, and yes he's competitive else he wouldn't be in F1, but its without all the nasty baggage competitiveness can come with (and frankly both lewis and fernando have in them).

lol ultimately, thats why he wont win a championship (unless like massa his teammate falls rapidly from the picture) because nice guys rarely win titles. But the one thing he is a sure bet never to do is cause a stir (which is what McLaren like about him) - unless his patience really is tested.

That's the key to this...strip everything else away, and anyone who knows the reputation Heikki has as a person, its odd for him to be saying these things just because Lewis has beaten him this year comprehensively. It wouldn't be enough for Heikki to start insinuating towards the team for it - its not in his makeup.

[mursuka80]

Originally posted by pottiella
I think people are missing the point here a bit. Heikki isn't like most other racing drivers who have a really high opinion of themselves. He's very widely known and liked because he doesn't cause a fuss, he doesn't complain unecessarily, is incredibly rational to know what is justified when it comes to himself rather than making excuses, and most of all doesn't show jealous streaks that most other drivers do. He's always happy for everyone else, and yes he's competitive else he wouldn't be in F1, but its without all the nasty baggage competitiveness can come with (and frankly both lewis and fernando have in them).

lol ultimately, thats why he wont win a championship (unless like massa his teammate falls rapidly from the picture) because nice guys rarely win titles. But the one thing he is a sure bet never to do is cause a stir (which is what McLaren like about him) - unless his patience really is tested.

That's the key to this...strip everything else away, and anyone who knows the reputation Heikki has as a person, its odd for him to be saying these things just because Lewis has beaten him this year comprehensively. It wouldn't be enough for Heikki to start insinuating towards the team for it - its not in his makeup.

When even Heikki bitches theres something wrong with Team Integrity.

[jigc]

Originally posted by Clatter


OK, that may be true for the first stint, whats your excuse for the rest of the race?

when ur 1st stint is long enough, after u pit, u come out in middle field with no clear air

[Dark Monkey]

Man, is everybody missing the pink elephant in the room?

"I've had to dodge his moves myself a couple of times, and I've made it clear to him that I won't be doing that indefinitely. If nothing changes, we're bound to have a collision between us at some point."

That's the real hard rant, IMHO. And it hasn't anything to do with fuel or pace, but about Kovalainen having to dodge Hamilton on the start at Fuji to avoid an incredibly embarrassing incident, i.e.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by Devero
Very interesting

Helsingin Sanomat
October 17, 2008
Shanghai

"Lewis is an aggressive and an uncompromising driver, whose reactions can be fierce. And at times they have been excessive," says Kovalainen.

"I've had to dodge his moves myself a couple of times, and I've made it clear to him that I won't be doing that indefinitely. If nothing changes, we're bound to have a collision between us at some point."


For next season, Kovalainen is also calling out for a different attitude towards him from his team.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that, barring one instance (British GP), I've had a heavier fuel load than Lewis in qualifying."

"If you want to have a shot at the championship, you have to qualify in the front row. Even after a good qualifying performance, I'm starting in 4th, 5th or 6th. That doesn't help your race at all."

Perhaps if Heikki hadn't been rubbish for most of his debut season he may have been team leader at Renault now and winning several races...

[mursuka80]

Originally posted by Imperial


Perhaps if Heikki hadn't been rubbish for most of his debut season he may have been team leader at Renault now and winning several races...

He was a rookie.Not everybody gets a best car in their debut season.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by mursuka80


He was a rookie.Not everybody gets a best car in their debut season.

The quality of his car is irrelevant as he still wasted the opportunities available to him from that particular car. It speaks volumes that he lost his Renault seat to Nelson Piquet Jnr.

Conversely the very fact that Heikki is driving a Mclaren is what is actually flattering him and to all intents he's again not making the best use of the car that has been made available to him.

[johnap]

As much as a Hamilton fan I am, I fully recognise that he is a clear #1 in McLaren, despite what they're PR fluff says.

[mursuka80]

Originally posted by Imperial


The quality of his car is irrelevant as he still wasted the opportunities available to him from that particular car. It speaks volumes that he lost his Renault seat to Nelson Piquet Jnr.

Conversely the very fact that Heikki is driving a Mclaren is what is actually flattering him and to all intents he's again not making the best use of the car that has been made available to him.

Car that is made for Lewis,strategys favoring Lewis etc. Team Integrity indeed

[snx843]

He needs to be .250-3 seconds per lap faster to moan about anything. I imagine it's boring getting your arse beaten by your team mate each weekend? Seemingly having no answer at all, so naturally you become no2, either psyhcologically or just within everyones minds

[Imperial]

Originally posted by mursuka80


Car that is made for Lewis,strategys favoring Lewis etc. Team Integrity indeed

Well they hired the guy who was clear number 2 at Renault, so why offer him any more of an opportunity than that at Mclaren?

I'm not defending Mclaren, I'm sure only a fool would dispute they haven't been behind Hamilton all season. You don't invest in a guy for more than a decade for someone else to come along and clean up instead (hence the probs with Fernando when he was at the team). But Heikki didn't perform at Renault as he should have done and that, along with his early Mclaren performances (which are still hit and miss) is what's got him into this position, so he shouldn't complain really.

He's like most of the drivers though: The one's that can, do. The one's that can't, blame everyone else.

[manodemono]

My understanding is

1. Kova reiterates what everybody else is saying, " LH has an attitude problem who believes & expects everyone to get out of his way ". Or why are others saying LH is going to get someone killed ?

2. Point 1 is directly proportional to the unequal driver treatment at Mac. The more Mac works around & in favor of LH, the more LH thinks he has a right to run over anything & everything. Kova explains, that in the whole of 2008 he's never been fueled to win any race ( Kova may have been a little naive to think he'd be treated a little better than FA ).

Points 1 & 2 is proof of Alonso's decision to leave the Mac circus. FA knew that 2008 would be a continuation of 2007, only worse, he'd never be allowed to win a race. Last year was bad enough, you will all remember a few incdents

- LH jumping qualifying instructions
- incorrect tires pressures for FA
- FA's vastly slower car at Brazil

Alonso has preferred to slug it out at the back of the grid in this year's Renault. He's held his head high & hasn't sold himself. This is the kind of drivers team owners want on their teams

Lewis has a lot to do before he earns the respect of the grid. I hope for his sake that he wins this year's championship but only if he does so cleanly & without hurting anyone.

[mursuka80]

Originally posted by Imperial


Well they hired the guy who was clear number 2 at Renault, so why offer him any more of an opportunity than that at Mclaren?

I'm not defending Mclaren, I'm sure only a fool would dispute they haven't been behind Hamilton all season. You don't invest in a guy for more than a decade for someone else to come along and clean up instead (hence the probs with Fernando when he was at the team). But Heikki didn't perform at Renault as he should have done and that, along with his early Mclaren performances (which are still hit and miss) is what's got him into this position, so he shouldn't complain really.

He's like most of the drivers though: The one's that can, do. The one's that can't, blame everyone else.

Well Heikki beat his teammate at renault.Isnt that the first thing you must do?

[Imperial]

Originally posted by mursuka80


Well Heikki beat his teammate at renault.Isnt that the first thing you must do?

Correct! And his teammate got dropped for underperforming too.

We could go on like this but let's not. I still think he wasted the opportunities he had at that team. As did his teammate.

[Galko877]

Originally posted by pottiella

[edit] McLaren were my first love in Formula One - their car was/is beautiful! But I was very young and the older I got and the more I followed F1 to understand that it was all face for McLaren given their corporate ways, it put me off. I grew uncomfortable with what seemed to really lie beneath that beautiful shimmering silver face - all because of this sort of thing, well before Lewis Hamilton turned up.

I'd love to find a reason to love them again. I increasingly struggle....

....maybe when Ron retires, and the ever amiable Martin Whitmarsh takes over.... [/B]

Maybe. But I think if Mercedes takes over it will be even worse. You should hear Norbert Haug talk PR BS all the time on German TV.

[Galko877]

Originally posted by Clatter


The thing is I think he is the architect of his situation. He has shown almost all season that he has been lacking race pace, whereas LH has been wringing everything out of the car. In that situation it makes sense for a team to put their apples in the fastest basket.

I agree.

It's like Johnny Herbert or Rubens Barrichello whining about Schumacher's Nr 1 status. These drivers aren't Nr 1 drivers without a reason. They get into that status because they are better. No team is insane to make their weaker driver the Nr 1. Of course once they are in that status it is increasingly difficult for the other guy to turn that around, but that was always like that in F1. I saw nothing this season why Hamilton should not be McLaren's Nr 1 driver.

[raiseyourfistfor]

Heikki is 20 seconds behind Hamilton in only 11-12 laps..... in clean air too

[Knowlesy]

To be fair, Heikki just did his personal best lap.

One second slower than the team leader.

People can't moan about equality and stuff here, Heikki simply isn't good enough.

[equality]

Originally posted by Knowlesy
To be fair, Heikki just did his personal best lap.

One second slower than the team leader.

People can't moan about equality and stuff here, Heikki simply isn't good enough.

lol. and last year we was told he was kicked out of renault because alonso didnt wanna compete with him.

I bet rosberg is all jumping up n down to join mclaren.