7348 replies to this topic

[Poltergeistes]

the point is we really dont know how things workout inside the ferrari camp...it could be domenicalli could be rob,.hell it could be anyone`s fault...its all speculation.

That's what i mean, what we know is that they always look at the race and they pin point where they failed, which decision, which department, and then which people.

They have no supervising it appears, because they make one mistake, and then by not reacting to it quickly enough, it enables a chain reaction of events that will ultimately lead to poor race result.

After that is when he (stefano) needs to decide how he is gonna react to it, and how he wants the chief of each department to react to those faults. Like I said we know for a fact that the mechanics and pitstop crew gets rotated pretty often when someone isn't operating up to the standards of the rest, the question is do they do that to the dozens of people that works behind the walls of the garage ?

Then again they can just choose to just gather around a fire tonight with some mashmelow while kimi and felipe sings Kumbaya.

[Anomnader]

Dave Ryans currently kicking his heels....

[Johny Bravo]

In truth though, they also produced the McLaren F1 under him which is better than any roadcar Ferrari have ever produced.;)

Regards

Andy

Who knows, maybe Ronzo had a 700 pages dossier on "how to design, build a Ferrari road car" back than just as he did in F1.

Last two achievements of Ron are the Spygate and the Liegate. Superb.

Edited by Johny Bravo, 10 May 2009 - 19:48.

[Johny Bravo]

the point is we really dont know how things workout inside the ferrari camp...

But we see the results. Heaps of unforced errors. Repeated ad nauseum.

Ferrari still has some masterminds on their design payroll, but their pit wall guys and pit crew are the worse on the grid. Even Force India do a better job.

[Anomnader]

Who knows, maybe Ronzo had a 700 pages dossier on "how to design, build a Ferrari road car" back than just as he did in F1.

Last two achievements of Ron are the Spygate and the Liegate. Superb.

I don't know, you post here slagging off Ron on spygate and liegate and many other things, but when you here descending to lying and spreading rubbish yourself then really you havn't got a leg to stand on with your accusations.

[Poltergeistes]

Dave Ryans currently kicking his heels....

I doubt he would join forces... Besides i think that these are all jobs that comes to people that had been on the team for a while showing hard work and then gets the promotion, rather than having someone from the outside take it.

But this is F1, they have to be very professional about it, the only room left for passional is for the passion to win races.


PS Ryans done a superb long job, of course we have no idea who is really to blame for the liegate, one way or the other mad max gets what he wants, he slowly is dessolving the heads of the big teams...

[Poltergeistes]

But we see the results. Heaps of unforced errors. Repeated ad nauseum.

Ferrari still has some masterminds on their design payroll, but their pit wall guys and pit crew are the worse on the grid. Even Force India do a better job.

and the way i see it is this: Domenicalli and luca use this year to perfect the car specially for the next season, and also their personnel.

We have been going through a massive reshuffle of people and seats, and if they get the right people in the right positions in the team we can make it back to the top in 2010.

And when i mean to take care of the personnel i don't mean to fire people, and stefano is capable of doing this because look at what they did after malasya, they changed people's position, they put baldiserri where he could give the most to the team, and look at the job that they were able to perform working from maranello.

So it isn't a matter of firing people, it's a matter of knowing who should be working back at maranello and who should and can be working on the weekends with the team, and this problem isn't just with top people of the team, it goes all the way down to that backroom with all the tech screens.

[F.M.]

Spanish GP - Race

Barcelona, 10th May 2009

F. Massa: 6th 1:38.10.029 + 50.827 66 laps 275 chassis
K. Raikkonen: R 28.17.924 Lap 18 17 laps 279 chassis

Weather
air temperature 38/36 °C, track temperature 51/49 °C, sunny, then slightly cloudy.

Another sixth place for Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro in the fifth race of the season, this time for Felipe Massa. The Brazilian driver, who set the third fastest race lap, fought for a place in the top four until he was forced to slow significantly to save fuel as, at the second pit stop, the full planned amount of fuel did not go in the tank. Kimi Raikkonen had to retire on lap 18, because of a problem with the hydraulic control of the accelerator.

Stefano Domenicali: “We can take some satisfaction from this weekend, but at the same time, it has thrown up further concerns. On the one hand we saw that the effort expended in recent weeks has born fruit in terms of improving the performance level of the car. Both in yesterday’s qualifying and today, Felipe was competitive at the highest level, as was confirmed on the clock: it’s not by luck that we got the third fastest time in the race, which would have been far out of our reach in previous races this year. Once again, the downside comes from the reliability side. Again today, we had problems which forced Kimi to retire and cost Felipe two places in the final stages, having also robbed him of the chance of getting to the podium, which would have been well deserved. This is unacceptable for a team like Ferrari: we must all react to get back to our usual standard, as indeed we have partially managed on the performance side. There is much to do on all fronts and we will tackle it with our usual absolute determination.”

Felipe Massa: “It’s a real shame to have lost two places in the final stages, even if we’ve finally made it to the scoreboard. We knew we couldn’t match the pace of the Brawns but we had managed to get ahead of the Red Bulls and, but for the fuel problem, I could have certainly stayed ahead of Vettel and Alonso. The final part of the race was a pain. I was already struggling on the harder tyres and then I had to try and save fuel as much as possible, while at the same time staying ahead of Vettel. Then the team told that if I wanted to make it to the finish, I would have to let Vettel by and slow down a lot: if I had made another pit stop I would have finished out of the points. Today, the car’s pace on the softer tyre was reasonably good, even if we’re still lacking a few tenths, but at least we are back to fighting for the top places.”

Kimi Raikkonen: “I am very unhappy because I could have finished in the points. Unfortunately, I had a hydraulic problem linked to the control of the accelerator which meant I had to retire. At the start I managed to make up a few places but then, I found myself behind Heidfeld’s BMW. The car is better, but we must fix these reliability problems. Obviously, when you have to make up ground you can end up making avoidable errors, as has happened to us in this first part of the season, but that doesn’t mean to say the team has lost its way. We are the same people who over the past two years have won three world titles out of the four available.”

Chris Dyer: “The most important thing this weekend is that the car performance is much improved compared to the previous races. Today we were capable of fighting with the best and we had a great chance of finishing on the podium. On the downside, we can only be disappointed about our reliability and the running of our on-track operation. After what happened in qualifying yesterday, Kimi had to retire because of a problem with the hydraulics used to control the accelerator. On Felipe’s car, the front left wheel fairing broke and at both pit stops we had a refueling problem, the cause of which we have yet to find out. Obviously, we have a lot of work to do. We are all very unhappy for what happened and lament the fact that so much work from the team to improve car performance was not adequately rewarded in the final result.”

[mursuka80]

Keeping positive

[Johny Bravo]

and the way i see it is this: Domenicalli and luca use this year to perfect the car specially for the next season, and also their personnel.

We have been going through a massive reshuffle of people and seats, and if they get the right people in the right positions in the team we can make it back to the top in 2010.

Well, we might concentrate on 2010 or even 2011 already, reshuffle Luca with the toilet cleaners, but that shouldn't restrain us from giving a 2nd shot in Q1...

[Odvan]

I don't get one thing why again and again Domenicali is put Massa's performance on the first place?
Look at GP Bahrain - he was fast, do well and nothing about Kimi's really great performance and today only Massa was on super level.
It seems (long ago) Kimi is definitely will retire after this season. I hate SD - he can't even give for both pilots equal approach. Interesting what he will say when Massa will be with Alonso in the same car - that Massa superiour or changed his game? Ferrari is full of crap today. Everybody said about performance, factory - so where's Kimi today? Or factory has nothing to do with hydraulic problem???

[Poltergeistes]

Well, we might concentrate on 2010 or even 2011 already, reshuffle Luca with the toilet cleaners, but that shouldn't restrain us from giving a 2nd shot in Q1...

But that goes back to the chemestry we talked about between the team right now, specially on kimi's side of the garage, him and stella still aren't on the same page... i think that's another issue stefano needs to address (inside closed doors of course).

Stella is new at his job as race engineer, Chris dyer is new at the strategic mastermind in the pitwall, althou he has been a race engineer for years, this is a little different, having to accomodate 2 drivers at the same level.

Remember that this job is very very hard to do, seeing as up to this day ferrari is the only team trying to do it with kimi and felipe, everybody else has a defined 1st driver and a defined second. so even a ross brawn couldn't and didn't do this, trying to be fair in the strategy with both drivers, that is something i'm proud of ferrari. Just look at the role that rubens is back at playing and directed by ross brawn again.

Edited by Poltergeistes, 10 May 2009 - 21:20.

[VicR]

Why did Rob tell Felipe to save fuel behind the SC? He couldn't go slower (nor faster) so what's the point of saying that?

Why did Felipe pit earlier than expected at both stops, but at the first in perticular? It's like he had less fuel in the car at the start than after qualifying. Not just the lap out of the pits and the parade lap. What's going on? I think something sinister is going on.

KERS has nothing to do with the fuel consumption. KERS only affects the amount of ballast you can use because of the weight of the system.

This is basicly the same engine as last year. So where did the fuel go? Something doesn't add up.

Edited by VicR, 10 May 2009 - 21:24.

[Johny Bravo]

Remember that this job is very very hard to do

Sometimes this job involves decisions that really seem like nobrainers.

Yesterday I was yelling at my tv when there was some 5mins left from Q1 and Kimi has started to slip down the order: "FFS send him out!!!".

Today I was yelling at the tv again when I fist learned Felipe wouldn't have enough fuel: "let him pass Vettel, and he could bring it home in front of Alonso, or bring him in, he's still some 20s ahead of Alonso, 5th is still possible".

I was speechless and disheartened at both decisions Ferrari (not) made. Unthinkable and unprofessional what they did.

[Scotracer]

Why did Rob tell Felipe to save fuel behind the SC? He couldn't go slower (nor faster) so what's the point of saying that?

Why did Felipe pit earlier than expected at both stops, but at the first in perticular? It's like he had less fuel in the car at the start than after qualifying. Not just the lap out of the pits and the parade lap. What's going on? I think something sinister is going on.

KERS has nothing to do with the fuel consumption. KERS only affects the amount of ballast you can use because of the weight of the system.

This is basicly the same engine as last year. So where did the fuel go? Something doesn't add up.

You don't just save fuel by going faster or slower - you use different engine maps.

[Seanspeed]

Why did Rob tell Felipe to save fuel behind the SC? He couldn't go slower (nor faster) so what's the point of saying that?

There's fuel settings they can change on the car that affects fuel consumption, so when behind the SC he could have made some adjustments in that regard. Also, there's more to saving fuel than just going slower. One useful technique is to limit braking(and thus accelerating) and try to coast through the corners as much as possible. Anything that gets you around the track while limiting the amount you have to press the throttle is useful.

[F.M.]

Ferrari changed the Hydraulic MOOG block on car nr 03 (Massa) after qualifying. Always nice to seem them replace something on one car, and then see it (or something related to it) fail on the other one during the race (although I don't exactly know what the "Hydraulic MOOG block" is )
Same last race with Alonso, they replaced the drink installation on Piquet's car, it fails at Alonso's

Edited by F.M., 10 May 2009 - 21:58.

[VicR]

You don't just save fuel by going faster or slower - you use different engine maps.

Exactly! The driver knows automatically what to do when the SC is out. Rob telling Felipe to save fuel at that moment is strange and something very different.

[Odvan]

Ferrari changed the Hydraulic MOOG block on car nr 03 (Massa) after qualifying.

Source? (Find it)

So another two thumbs up for team that used to be Ferrari.

Edited by Odvan, 10 May 2009 - 22:33.

[VicR]

There's fuel settings they can change on the car that affects fuel consumption, so when behind the SC he could have made some adjustments in that regard. Also, there's more to saving fuel than just going slower. One useful technique is to limit braking(and thus accelerating) and try to coast through the corners as much as possible. Anything that gets you around the track while limiting the amount you have to press the throttle is useful.

True as well. But all this is something all drivers know. They do it automatically. But listen to Rob and the way he said it to Felipe. There was obviously something more. He probably told Felipe to try and save as much fuel as possible for the entire stint and not just the laps behind the SC. I don't understand what happened. It's fishy for sure.

Edited by VicR, 10 May 2009 - 22:15.

[Seanspeed]

True as well. But all this is something all drivers know. They do it automatically. But listen to Rob and the way he said it to Felipe. There was obviously something more. He probably told Felipe to try and save as much fuel as possible for the entire stint and not just the laps behind the SC. I don't understand what happened. It's fishy for sure.

Its not really something they do automatically, though. Driving conservatively to save fuel is counterproductive to keeping heat in the tires(and brakes), which is something that most drivers are always concerned with behind the SC.

[VicR]

Its not really something they do automatically, though. Driving conservatively to save fuel is counterproductive to keeping heat in the tires(and brakes), which is something that most drivers are always concerned with behind the SC.

Rob said there was nothing they could do to keep the tyre pressure. So trying and generate heat in the tyres would still not be enough because the pressure dictates everything. And it's the same for all drivers behind the SC.

But the question still remains. Why tell a driver to save fuel behind the SC, and so early in the race? What did they found out just after the start?

Where the heck did the damn fuel go?

Edited by VicR, 10 May 2009 - 22:30.

[Madras]

But the question still remains. Why tell a driver to save fuel behind the SC, and so early in the race?

Because it means they can go longer in the first stint if they save fuel behind the safety car. That means not too much extreme acceleration or braking.

[VicR]

Because it means they can go longer in the first stint if they save fuel behind the safety car. That means not too much extreme acceleration or braking.

But don't you get it? It's a standard, an instant, an automatical reaction from everyone. What else is there to do? NOT to safe fuel? What would be the purpose of that?

Edited by VicR, 10 May 2009 - 22:43.

[Seanspeed]

Rob said there was nothing they could do to keep the tyre pressure. So trying and generate heat in the tyres would still not be enough because the pressure dictates everything. And it's the same for all drivers behind the SC.

But the question still remains. Why tell a driver to save fuel behind the SC, and so early in the race? What did they found out just after the start?

Where the heck did the damn fuel go?

So what you're saying is that when drivers swerve left and right, and brake hard and accelerate hard behind the SC, they're just doing it for no reason?

I'm tellin ya man, this is the normal routine of a driver when they're under a SC, so there's every reason in the world to tell your driver to worry about saving fuel instead.

I think you're trying to read too much into it.

Edited by TheHumanPromise, 10 May 2009 - 22:53.

[Madras]

But don't you get it? It's a standard, an instant, an automatical reaction from everyone. What else is there to do? NOT to safe fuel? What would be the purpose of that?

Drivers tend to try and keep their tyres and brakes warm by accelerating hard, braking hard, swerving around. Rob was telling Massa to concentrate on fuel saving instead.

Edited by Madras, 10 May 2009 - 23:05.

[Poltergeistes]

So what you're saying is that when drivers swerve left and right, and brake hard and accelerate hard behind the SC, they're just doing it for no reason?

I'm tellin ya man, this is the normal routine of a driver when they're under a SC, so there's every reason in the world to tell your driver to worry about saving fuel instead.

I think you're trying to read too much into it.

I think he just wants to know where the extra fuel that massa had over all the top 6 cars go after qulifying.

After all ALL cars were behind the safety car, felipe massa yesterday at the end of the Q session had more fuel to go further laps without the first pitstop, the question is why then did he have to stop at the same lap as vettel for instance.

again i think it's a fair question to ask. is it possible that our engine drinks that much more than the mercedes and renaults?

what makes it even more relevant is the fact that next year with the possible fuel ban being in place, we need to have an engine that won't use fuel that much more than the rest of the teams. so if anyone can clarify that i too am eager to understand what happened exactly before the first pitstop

because if in both of your pitstops your fuel rig doesn't deliver you the amount of fuel it was intended to, and at that same race for some reason your engine used all that extra fuel you had from the day before, then let's just say you are one unlucky driver! lol


PS congrats to felipe! it seems his wife is really pregnant, a close friend to his family galvao bueno (from the brazilian broadcast team) said it during the race.

[Seanspeed]

i think it's a fair question to ask. is it possible that our engine drinks that much more than the mercedes and renaults?

Maybe somebody can go back and look at the past races this season and see if there's a pattern of the two Ferrari drivers pitting several laps earlier than expected from the published fuel weights?

Cuz really, if there's no pattern, then I think we'd have to assume that this was a one-off problem and that there's something or someone to blame or maybe there was some reasoning behind it.

Edited by TheHumanPromise, 10 May 2009 - 23:31.

[Racing Dutchman]

Enzo Ferrari 9 WDC, 8 CC
Ron Dennis 10WDC, 7 CC

I'm sure they are both doing fine. Now back to todays race, Brundell reported via the BBC that the Ferrari was short fuelled in error during both it's stops.

I don't think Enzo is having his best day today, since he is kind of dead , just like the truth inside Ron Dennis

[Poltergeistes]

I don't think Enzo is having his best day today, since he is kind of dead , just like the truth inside Ron Dennis

and ron biult a massive and impressing racing team and business, its just that signore enzo biult a religion... so we really can't compare.

[Poltergeistes]

by the way, there are some coments at the scuderia.net suggesting that maybe felipe massa stop at that lap wasn't because he was out of fuel... maybe they had another reason for it, and then the problem with the fuel rig screwed things up.

But then i think, isn't it like text book thou that you want to pit because you are running out of fuel and not because of your tyres, at least with the rules that we have for refuel during the race.

the other question that can't come out of my mind is, if they knew that he didn't get enough fuel both times, i would think they could try and set the revs down for a greater amount of laps, letting vettel past, and that way still make it in front of alonso? because the graphic showed on tv that after rob told him to save fuel, his revs were full on the 18. i am no expert, so does that make any sense? I thought the rev control on the steering wheel was for reasons like that, if your driving in heavy rain, or you need to save fuel...

anyway what i know for sure is that i know nothing lol, so i always imagine that the ferrari engineers knows way more than we do, they have all the telemetry... this is why sometimes we get so frustrated when things like that happens, like kimi's yesterday... it's one of those things where everyone saw it coming, everyone but the dozen of people working with kimi?

[J2NH]

I think he just wants to know where the extra fuel that massa had over all the top 6 cars go after qulifying.

After all ALL cars were behind the safety car, felipe massa yesterday at the end of the Q session had more fuel to go further laps without the first pitstop, the question is why then did he have to stop at the same lap as vettel for instance.

Why stop on the same lap as Vettle when Felipe had more fuel? Then TWO stops with fuel delivery problems? Coincidence? Not much of a grassy knoll person but this seems a little fishy.
Teams know when the rigs don't deliver the correct amount. TWICE, if you knew their was a problem after the first stop why didn't they:
Check Felipe's rig before the next stop
or
Switch to Kimi's rig just to be sure?

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/75226
Massa can't even explain why he had to stop on the same lap as Vettle but he does say he could not go any further.
Ferrari engine has higher consumption or Massa's car is above the 605 kg min weight and then when they give a 655 kg starting weight the difference is not all fuel.
MESS.

[Poltergeistes]

Why stop on the same lap as Vettle when Felipe had more fuel? Then TWO stops with fuel delivery problems? Coincidence? Not much of a grassy knoll person but this seems a little fishy.
Teams know when the rigs don't deliver the correct amount. TWICE, if you knew their was a problem after the first stop why didn't they:
Check Felipe's rig before the next stop
or
Switch to Kimi's rig just to be sure?

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/75226
Massa can't even explain why he had to stop on the same lap as Vettle but he does say he could not go any further.
Ferrari engine has higher consumption or Massa's car is above the 605 kg min weight and then when they give a 655 kg starting weight the difference is not all fuel.
MESS.

I think that's one thing i wish that the ferrari pr would do, we have a new website which is very cool, and is supposed to give us an inside look at the scuderia, i think it would be very nice if they would have the news section better, if they could take a few questions from the tifosi and have some of the team's key people answer them, and specially i don't see why they couldnt explain to us what happened exactly as far as the comsuption on massa car before the 1st pitstop, and explain why after it didnt work the first time, they kept the same device.

I don't think this would be giving away vital information to other teams, it would be just explaining to the fans some of the problems when we have them during the races, we all tune in to watch the races and i think that the ferrari fans are very involved with the team, they usually wants to know every detail on how things works and how or why they didn't work. it would be nice.

Right now the PR department have been doing a bad job in my view, too much crappy stuff, sidetalk. it's almost like the articles they write ad publish would have been one that kids would deliver in their first semester in comunications college.

[AlexS]

the point is we really dont know how things workout inside the ferrari camp...it could be domenicalli could be rob,.hell it could be anyone`s fault...its all speculation.

There is only one boss.

[SpaMaster]

I think he just wants to know where the extra fuel that massa had over all the top 6 cars go after qulifying.

After all ALL cars were behind the safety car, felipe massa yesterday at the end of the Q session had more fuel to go further laps without the first pitstop, the question is why then did he have to stop at the same lap as vettel for instance.

again i think it's a fair question to ask. is it possible that our engine drinks that much more than the mercedes and renaults?

what makes it even more relevant is the fact that next year with the possible fuel ban being in place, we need to have an engine that won't use fuel that much more than the rest of the teams. so if anyone can clarify that i too am eager to understand what happened exactly before the first pitstop

because if in both of your pitstops your fuel rig doesn't deliver you the amount of fuel it was intended to, and at that same race for some reason your engine used all that extra fuel you had from the day before, then let's just say you are one unlucky driver! lol


PS congrats to felipe! it seems his wife is really pregnant, a close friend to his family galvao bueno (from the brazilian broadcast team) said it during the race.

Vettel and Massa came in at the same lap for the first stop and left the pits with almost similar gap and came back for the second stop the same lap again. So, if Ferrari is consuming fuel the same rate as Red Bull and the published car weight was heavier, that means the car is well above the min weight limit because of KERS - that is 3.5 kg compared to Red Bull. There are enough hints from BMW too that KERS make them go overweight.

[Menace]

Vettel and Massa came in at the same lap for the first stop and left the pits with almost similar gap and came back for the second stop the same lap again. So, if Ferrari is consuming fuel the same rate as Red Bull and the published car weight was heavier, that means the car is well above the min weight limit because of KERS - that is 3.5 kg compared to Red Bull. There are enough hints from BMW too that KERS make them go overweight.

Yes I beleive that to be true, it also explains why Kimi pitted so much earlier then expected based on the fuel figures in the last few races, as well as why it was even more imperative to give him the lighter chassis.

[jaidev]

Why stop on the same lap as Vettle when Felipe had more fuel?

If they knew Vettel was coming in on that lap, it makes sense to bring Felipe in on the same lap if they thought Vettel would be quicker on his outlap and take the position. Considering that Vettel could follow Felipe quite easily, Ferrari probably did the right thing.

This was the safest way of keeping him ahead. If they'd kept him out, there was a chance (however small) of losing that position.

OTOH, the fuelling problem is a different issue.

[Poltergeistes]

so i suppose we do consume more fuel due to the kers weight, if at the begin felipe had more fuel than vettel but both come in in the same lap, then the problem with the rig not delivering enough fuel both pitstops, makes massa run out of fuel while vettel doesnt.

The only problem i have with them saying it was a problem with the fuel rig is that, 1 the amount of times we seem to have problems with the refuel of the cars since 08, and 2 most importantly, they don't explain how come the problem happened during the first pitstop and they didnt change the equipment that was faulty. thus letting it happen twice.

This is where their response leaves room for people to think that sometimes they blame malfunctions on the parts rather than on people, so that it relieves some members of the team from being in the middle of the heat of criticism.

I don't know who are the people responsable for the fuel in ferrari, and i'm not talking about usage, i'm talking about the number of mistakes they seem to make detaching the hose, and just i don't understand how their refuel equipment is always breaking down and not working properly, i wonder if its the equipment of the people who are working the equipment.

[J2NH]

If they knew Vettel was coming in on that lap, it makes sense to bring Felipe in on the same lap if they thought Vettel would be quicker on his outlap and take the position. Considering that Vettel could follow Felipe quite easily, Ferrari probably did the right thing.

This was the safest way of keeping him ahead. If they'd kept him out, there was a chance (however small) of losing that position.

OTOH, the fuelling problem is a different issue.

Agree except that Massa stated that he HAD to pit for fuel.

Q. So you had to come in?

FM: Yeah.

Q. You couldn't have gone any further?

FM: I don't think so.
Source: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/75226

[peroa]

Maybe it`s a combination of factors and every little thing adds to the final sum.

- running the car slightly over 605 kg to achieve better balance
- running the richest fuel map all the time (performance, cooling)
- maybe the engine is a little thirsty to begin with
- driving style (that one is from SD)

But in the end the difference wasn`t that big. Vettel and Massa should have been 2 laps apart (judging by pure wheight), in the end they stopped on the same lap. Vettel surely saved a lot of fuel behind Massa during the 1st stint.

Edited by peroa, 11 May 2009 - 04:37.

[HoldenRT]

That's what happens when you are behind a slower car, you save fuel. Vettel's been doing alot of that lately. It's sad though that we will be hearing so much about it, since the overtaking hasn't been improved much. Yesterday was waiting for pitstops combined with who can save the most fuel. Seat of your pants stuff.

[jaidev]

Did anyone hear Kimi on Speed TV mentioning that he couldn't see the starting lights due to the high rear wings? That was an awesome start considering that he moved only after the car in front.

Ferrari just need the missing 0.2s. Okay, Barcelona is special and the teams know it like the back of their hands. Maybe they need another 0.5s. Bring on Turkey!

[hello86]

Montmelo, 10th May 2009 - The following interview has been released to BBC from the Finnish driver of the Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro.

Kimi you’ve just opened the Ferrari store, do you have fans wherever you go or can you still be a bit low-key?

If I go on my own time people don’t expect me to be somewhere. If I come on my own probably people don’t notice me but this is work and so isn’t private.

We’re about to fly off to Barcelona, can you believe it’s been a year since you’re last victory?

Yes, sometimes it goes like that. If you think it’s a long time but the time goes quickly in F1 and hopefully soon we can win again. The car is a bit better now so I expect us to be a bit stronger but I don’t know how much the other teams have improved so we need to wait and see.

If someone had said to you, you would only have three points going into this race would you have believed them?

I don’t know if it’s bad luck we’re just not as strong as we should be. You cannot expect anything in F1, it changes so quickly. We are in a situation right now and you just have to try and get out it and try to improve and get back to where we should be.

What updates will you have on the car?

We have a new aero package. We have done some straight line testing but from there it’s pretty hard to say how much better it will be. Definitely it should be better than the last races.

From your point of view as a driver how much do you enjoy driving for Ferrari as a prestige brand? Do you want the team to regain its history?

Of course, we’d rather have good races and results but racing is sometime like this. Ferrari is a perfect place to be racing as a team and with the people so I wouldn’t really change to another team. I’ve been with a few other teams in F1 but Ferrari is in many ways a different place. I’m very happy to be there. Of course, we’re not as happy as maybe we were last year because we are not winning but that’s normal in any racing so once we start winning it’ll be more happy but the atmosphere in the team hasn’t changed.

Some people have said that Ferrari is lacking a leader, do you think you can motivate the team?

There are always stories about who is doing what but people hardly ever know what is going on. There’s always someone blaming someone if we are not doing well but we have good people, good working relationships and these are the same people who last year were winning races, so it’s not like we don’t know what to do. Unfortunately we just haven’t got it right this year and once we start winning all the stories will be nice but that’s part of the whole thing. Hard publicity comes with hard times.

When you wake up in the morning, what’s your motivation?

Of course, when you’re winning it’s easy but when you’re not doing so well you are waiting, especially when you know there are improvements to the car and you can get back where you want to be. There’s always some motivation, we always want to improve. But I love the racing and the other stuff is on the side. I love the racing and that’s the main thing. Even when you don’t have the best car you try to get the best out of it and when you get the results you get a nice feeling out of it.

Some people have doubted your commitment and motivation. In Malaysia, for some reason you were in your shorts eating an ice-cream out of the car – it looked as if the team were quite surprised.
It’s nothing. I was retired and nobody else was running either. I had an issue with my car and I wasn’t going anywhere so it’s a big story out of nothing so it’s normal, I can do what I want when I retire. You always get the nice stories out of things so I don’t mind. I’ve been long enough in the business to know and I don’t really care what they write about me.

So you can relax and enjoy ice cream, you also enjoy rallying what was the Artic Rally like?

It’s completely different to F1 and when it’s new it’s exciting. I’ve wanted to do it for many, many years and when I got the chance, I did another rally afterwards. There are so many things to learn but it’s a big challenge and I enjoyed it.

In the future after F1 can you see yourself as a rally driver or following Mika Hakkinen into DTM?

DTM definitely not, I’m not interested but rallying is something that has always been a good sport and probably when I stop F1 I will try and do more rallies and perhaps take it seriously so we’ll see what happens.

What about your future in F1 can you see yourself getting as many Grands Prix as you can?

No, not really. I’ve been enough in there and I have no interest in just driving around for races or the teams. I’m happy where I am now and I have a contract for next year then it’s more or less my decision what I want to do. We’ll see how it goes and how Formula 1 is going first of all. There are a lot of question marks and nobody seems to know what kind of rules we are going to get.

If there’s a £40m budget cap do you think Ferrari will still be in F1?

I don’t know. There are a lot of question marks and I’m not the guy to answer those.

Would you want to be in a series like that?

think this is not Formula 1 anymore and that’s why there is a question mark so we’ll see what happens but I will definitely finish my contract and then see what is happening but I’m not in a hurry and we’ll wait and see.

What would you like the future of F1 to be like? Do you think there should be a budget cap?

There needs to be some reasonable budget for everybody but it’s hard to put the bigger and smaller teams on the same level so it’s very difficult to make everybody happy and that’s the biggest issues. It would be nice to get more close racing but we are getting into that area and it still needs to improve.

This season can you still fight for the world championship or is it over for 2009?

The next few races will show which way we are going to go but we know it is going to be difficult. Some teams are faster now than us and it’s never going to be easy to catch them up. We can win races this year but I’m not so sure we can fight for the championship. But we’ll keep fighting and see what happens – we don’t give up that’s for sure.

[Broadway]

I just wanted to unload my disappointment for Ferrari somewhere and searched for a suitable thread. This thread is, I think, supposed to be about the car from the beginning but it seems it has turned into a general 'Ferrari' thread, so I use it:

Jeez, they really look like amatuers. A minimum of one huge mistake every race and many small!

So. Now I feel better.

The fuel issue - have anyone brought forward the following theory:

1. Massa pitted earlier than necessary to be sure to stay ahead of Vettel and not be caught out by a SC, rain, or snow.
2. Massa had fuel to go three laps further, but they did not adjust the fuel rig and put the predefined amount in.
3. The next stop was predicted at lap 50 (just a number out of the hat, I do not know when they stopped) and Ferrari thought that they had fuel until lap 53 since they by now have gone lost in the mathematics and do not realize that they are still fuelled only according to the original plan.
4. Next stop they bring in Massa at the same time as Vettel again (I had lost interest of the race by then so I am again only guessing), thinking that they had 3 laps up with fuel on him, therefore they adjust the fuel rig to compensate.
5. Massa goes out and someone realize that the total amount going into Massa's car for the race was the total_amount - 3 laps.

I would not put such a mistake pass Ferrari at the moment. They seem to have no clue about who is doing what and why.

I am lost now. I can not like McLaren under Martin Whitmarsh, not a team run by Flavio Briatore and I can not like a team run by amateurs.

I am too old to start liking a completely fresh team, like Brawn GP. I can not like a team that is founded on selling manipulated water.

****.

[F.M.]

Source? (Find it)

So another two thumbs up for team that used to be Ferrari.

http://www.fia.com/e...sp09_report.pdf

I think it's trustworthy

[Odvan]

I am too old to start liking a completely fresh team, like Brawn GP. I can not like a team that is founded on selling manipulated water.

****.

Yep, same for me even worse cause Domenicali (= team) is destroying Kimi. When he retire i am definitely lost my interest to F1.
But if they change Stefano, replace cry-baby and finally get rid of Schumacher - who knows.

[kar]

Yep, same for me even worse cause Domenicali (= team) is destroying Kimi. When he retire i am definitely lost my interest to F1.
But if they change Stefano, replace cry-baby and finally get rid of Schumacher - who knows.

I lost some of my interest in F1 when Schumacher retired, but the sport, ultimately, is bigger than any driver. I find it hard someone could completely lose interest in a 'sport' with the loss of one driver, even if it is their favourite.

[Odvan]

I lost some of my interest in F1 when Schumacher retired, but the sport, ultimately, is bigger than any driver. I find it hard someone could completely lose interest in a 'sport' with the loss of one driver, even if it is their favourite.

Maybe it will be interesting occasionally see races if they will start overtaking each other - without 'insides info' and your favourite driver racings like yesterday isn't interesting at all.

[mel]

It seems like this thread is inclined to wander off topic. At 184 pages, I'm not surprised. If you would like to start a new thread on a specific topic, please feel free to do so.
Thanks, Mel