44 replies to this topic

[rolf123]

See...even good old EJ agrees that Lewis was lucky:

http://www.timesonli...icle5071831.ece

He ...was very lucky...I am concerned that his guile is always a lap or two too late...It is a miracle he won the championship

http://www.timesonli...icle5071831.ece

[Neo]

Grabbing, straws, at

Rearrange into a well known phrase, accept hamilton won it and stop posting pointless threads, arse!

[caanan]

maybe timo was lucky that the rain held off as much as it did and he was able to take 6th place... lewis wasn't gifted a spot, he earned that position throughout the race and in the end however close it was they chose the best available strategy with the cards they were given.

[bogi]

Lucky as Massa@SPA?

[craftverk]

If Spa-gate didn't happen, Lewis would've won the championship in China.

Boo-hoo-hoo.....hoo-hoo.

[equality]

Originally posted by Neo
Grabbing, straws, at

Rearrange into a well known phrase, accept hamilton won it and stop posting pointless threads, arse!

Yea, lets ban all threads that might put a black spot on lewis the great, the legend, the best driver ever, the youngest world champion

In this case ej stated this in a pretty normal newspaper. Its worthy news imo. I dont agree with him though, lewis won deservedly.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by craftverk
If Spa-gate didn't happen, Lewis would've won the championship in China.

Boo-hoo-hoo.....hoo-hoo.

If Massa's engine hadn't failed in Hungary or his team not messed up in Singapore.....

Coulda, would...shoulda

[craftverk]

Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001


If Massa's engine hadn't failed in Hungary or his team not messed up in Singapore.....

Coulda, would...shoulda

Engine failure =/= Unjust FIA race intervention

How about Lewis' puncture in Hungary? Losing out to the safety car in Singapore?

Could've, would've, should've indeed.

[pingu666]

yes he was lucky
but if massa had won then he would be lucky.

its that simple

[wewantourdarbyback]

He won it, th

that's about it.

Fred was lucky that Renault produced a great car for his
Schumi was lucky he had a superior car for so many years and that willaims and Damon made so many mistakes in 95
Kimi was lucky Mclaren ****ed up last season
Hakkinen was lucky McLaren produced a superior car in 98 and backed him rather than DC


etc, etc, etc

luck plays its part in most championships

[Oversteer1]

How about "Hammy" hitting the guardrail at Monaco just prior to the pit-in, getting a safety car
to enter the fray and pitting without losing many positions etc.......The definition of lucky!!!!


Mark

[wewantourdarbyback]

Originally posted by Oversteer1
How about "Hammy" hitting the guardrail at Monaco just prior to the pit-in, getting a safety car
to enter the fray and pitting without losing many positions etc.......The definition of lucky!!!!


Mark

that was all a pre thunk plan

[craftverk]

Originally posted by Oversteer1
How about "Hammy" hitting the guardrail at Monaco just prior to the pit-in, getting a safety car
to enter the fray and pitting without losing many positions etc.......The definition of lucky!!!!


Mark

What about the 38 second lead he built up?

[Dooly Tilly]

For once EJ isn't talking bollocks.

[Zippel]

Originally posted by rolf123
See...even good old EJ agrees that Lewis was lucky:

http://www.timesonli...icle5071831.ece



http://www.timesonli...icle5071831.ece

Since you take the words of Eddie Jordan as gospel I can only assume you side with him here as well:

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=94633

[Ferrim]

What about the 35 points lead Lauda had over Hunt in 1976?

Let's go back on topic, or let's let it die.

[Tenmantaylor]

Lewis deserved it in the end but I believe the Glock gamble failing at the last corner was more luck than McLaren planning it knowing he would get by in time. No one in the pitlane or driving on that track knew the grip avaliable on that last lap.

As much as I wanted McLaren and Lewis to win I found Rons infamous "we could have gone faster" spiel in a post race interview quite nauseating. If they could have gone faster Lewis would have sat on Raikkonens coat tails the whole race.

It wasnt a miracle but Lewis had luck on his side in that last corner as Vettel well and truly had the measure of him in those conditions.

All said and done though Lewis' composure was impeccable compared to a year ago and it paid off in the best posible way! Well done Lewis!

[Juan Kerr]

Are people that stupid ? (yes they really as we know) He was unlucky if anything that the rain nearly took away his championship winning position especially after no errors were made at all.

[alg7_munif]

Lucky? Yeah

World Champion? Hell Yeah!

If anyone come across a thread like this again, just remind the thread starter who is the World Champion now. Nothing can be said or done to change this fact, well except for an intervention from Maxxx.

[George Costanza]

Quite hard to argue with EJ on this one.

[WayFaster]

Originally posted by George Costanza
Quite hard to argue with EJ on this one.

Exactly, since the official F1 2008 WDC was actually comprised of 1 race in Brazil, not 18 around the world over the year.

Silly us for not having the insightfulness and wisdom in F1...

[as65p]

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
Are people that stupid ? (yes they really as we know) He was unlucky if anything that the rain nearly took away his championship winning position especially after no errors were made at all.

I don't think you really want to go down that route. If anything, rain "gave" Lewis a lot more this season than it "took away". You can't have it both ways.

In a dry season, or even in an average season with only one or two races affected by rain, Hamilton wouldn't even have been in the hunt anymore yesterday.

For the record, I think it's absolutely fair game: it rained a lot this year and Hamilton generally made the most of it, absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But to complain only about yesterdays rain is, well...

[inca_roads]

Originally posted by as65p


But to complain only about yesterdays rain is, well...

And to place more emphasis on certain points when deciding if someone was "worthy" of a WDC is the same. A point in Bahrain is worth the same as a point in Brazil. So isolating the final laps of the last race as the sole deciding factor in the WDC is very silly. The rain at the end yesterday's race made it unfortunate for Hamilton in the sense that it gave other guys the chance to take a gamble, which he couldn't. On the other side, he was fortunate that it rained enough on the last lap to cause Glock enough problems.

But as I said, points for the WDC are amassed in 18 races, not 1. So Jordan is talking out of his arse.

[as65p]

Originally posted by inca_roads

But as I said, points for the WDC are amassed in 18 races, not 1.

Absolutely agreed.

So Jordan is talking out of his arse.

Agreed again. IMO he does most of the time. Just try to remember that when he does his next (barely disguised self-promoting) speech praising Lewis to heaven.;)

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Oversteer1
How about "Hammy" hitting the guardrail at Monaco just prior to the pit-in, getting a safety car
to enter the fray and pitting without losing many positions etc.......The definition of lucky!!!!


Mark

How about pitting stupidly early on a track where you can't overtake only for your teammate to cause a safety car just before the regular pitstop window which puts you in a sure-fire podium position? Now that's real luck.

[kar]

Jordan needs to go spend the money he took away from his team ... somewhere far away from someone - anyone - holding a microphone.

[as65p]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
How about pitting stupidly early on a track where you can't overtake only for your teammate to cause a safety car just before the regular pitstop window which puts you in a sure-fire podium position? Now that's real luck.

But I thought that wasn't luck but a cunning evil plot?

;)

[ensign14]

Eddie Jordan, founder and former boss of F1 constructors' team Jordan, said the lack of Eddie Jordan stories had been a "scandal," adding that the Irish-born team owner had placed himself in a hopeless position with a misjudged, defensive sponsorship management, before pulling it out of the fire at the death by finding a publicity-hungry steelbroker.

The Irishman claimed that only his splendid hairpiece could outdo Flavio Flav's salt and pepper 'do as the Italian – aided by his Latin charm – surged past in the nick of time into the marriage he needed to sneak the headlines.

“I don’t think the media have been thinking about Eddie Jordan enough lately. They are very defensive,” Jordan said today. “Going into the last lap, I was thinking ’This is a disaster, what possible angle could I have to get into the newspapers’. I didn’t really give myself the best chance of being quoted in The Times - and was very lucky.”

While stressing that Hamilton is potentially a world-beating talent, Jordan added that his Sao Paulo victory once again displayed his one worrying weakness.

“Lewis is a great street-fighter on the track. But when he becomes defensive and does not get pole position, I am concerned that this might result in a lack of Jordan quotes,” he said. “His team should have seen that (Giancarlo) Fisichella was almost doing the same time - and I can make this comment because Fisi won a race in a Jordan. He put me in a massively precarious position. It is a miracle I am in the news.”

[Bruce]

Eddie Jordan is right - Lewis was lucky - I don't know why Lewis fans are upset about this - all WDCs can use a little luck - you know how it is - good to be lucky and lucky to be good.

I know it doesn't make quite as good a story as "Lewis cuts and thrusts his way to the WDC, beating the very GODS of motorsport in his relentless campaign against an international cast of evil geniuses..." - but you can get the latter from reading the British Press, so why bother?

;)

[MonzaOne]

I agree with Eddie Jordan.

Once again HAM showed that under extreme pressure he panics.

[Juan Kerr]

Its called sour grapes, surely everyone was expecting all sorts of crap to discredit Hamilton's brilliance ? All his rivals and rivals' teams have praised him and said how he deserves it just as Lewis would've congratulated Felipe if he'd won it. Its a shame the great sportsmanship that was present at the last race can have some sort of influence on these negative cynics. I don't think anyone could be proud of the booing or it can ever be justified.
Massa was brilliant and Hamilton was brilliant but Lewis actually won it.
Kimi Raikkonen said the other week that whoever wins it deserves it and he's exactly right.

[inca_roads]

Originally posted by as65p


Agreed again. IMO he does most of the time. Just try to remember that when he does his next (barely disguised self-promoting) speech praising Lewis to heaven.;)

I will, I can assure you

[Apex]

Given the limited amount of rain, Timo Glock was never going to beat Hamilton. He made a gamble which actually did pay off - he was behind Kovalainen before the rain - but not enough to beat Hamilton.

Also, let's not forget that if Lewis hadn't 'got lucky' on the final lap, Massa would have won the title as a direct consequence of the two points Kimi gifted him in China. How fun would that have been...?

[WayFaster]

Originally posted by Apex
Given the limited amount of rain, Timo Glock was never going to beat Hamilton. He made a gamble which actually did pay off - he was behind Kovalainen before the rain - but not enough to beat Hamilton.

Also, let's not forget that if Lewis hadn't 'got lucky' on the final lap, Massa would have won the title as a direct consequence of the two points Kimi gifted him in China. How fun would that have been...?

Well... ask Ferrari as KR swapped position with FM on lap 50 in Brazil last year to win the race and clinch the WDC by 1 point...

[giacomo]

Hamilton is a deserved WDC, certainly more deserved than Massa would have been.

But nobody can deny that Jordan is right in saying that he was lucky to make it in Interlagos; he was lucky that the rain made the Toyotas that slow in the last lap.

The situation concerning the amount of rain and the pace of the Toyotas was certainly out of his hands at that moment. Lady luck supported him, and as usual she supported the right one: Massa would have been a tainted WDC because of the Spa penalty.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Originally posted by ensign14
Eddie Jordan, founder and former boss of F1 constructors' team Jordan, said the lack of Eddie Jordan stories had been a "scandal," adding that the Irish-born team owner had placed himself in a hopeless position with a misjudged, defensive sponsorship management, before pulling it out of the fire at the death by finding a publicity-hungry steelbroker.

The Irishman claimed that only his splendid hairpiece could outdo Flavio Flav's salt and pepper 'do as the Italian – aided by his Latin charm – surged past in the nick of time into the marriage he needed to sneak the headlines.

“I don’t think the media have been thinking about Eddie Jordan enough lately. They are very defensive,” Jordan said today. “Going into the last lap, I was thinking ’This is a disaster, what possible angle could I have to get into the newspapers’. I didn’t really give myself the best chance of being quoted in The Times - and was very lucky.”

While stressing that Hamilton is potentially a world-beating talent, Jordan added that his Sao Paulo victory once again displayed his one worrying weakness.

“Lewis is a great street-fighter on the track. But when he becomes defensive and does not get pole position, I am concerned that this might result in a lack of Jordan quotes,” he said. “His team should have seen that (Giancarlo) Fisichella was almost doing the same time - and I can make this comment because Fisi won a race in a Jordan. He put me in a massively precarious position. It is a miracle I am in the news.”

I had respect for EJ when he was a boss... then he left and opened his mouth

[black magic]

read the article aagin

eddie believes he's a real talent and will win more championships. all he said was that mclaren very nearly blew it and yes lewis was very defensive in the race. simply fact. yes the rain coming was "unlucky" but so was the increse in rain when timo had him well beaten. getting to overtake in the last effective corner is cutting it unnnecessarily close in anyones book.

lewis won, with some luck and skill. let it go.

[Apex]

Originally posted by giacomo
The situation concerning the amount of rain and the pace of the Toyotas was certainly out of his hands at that moment. Lady luck supported him, and as usual she supported the right one: Massa would have been a tainted WDC because of the Spa penalty.

I don't think you can call it luck just because there didn't happen to be the precise amount of rain that would have made Hamilton pit while at the same time allowing Glock to keep his position.

[sensible]

Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
He won it, th

that's about it.

Fred was lucky that Renault produced a great car for his
Schumi was lucky he had a superior car for so many years and that willaims and Damon made so many mistakes in 95
Kimi was lucky Mclaren ****ed up last season
Hakkinen was lucky McLaren produced a superior car in 98 and backed him rather than DC


etc, etc, etc

luck plays its part in most championships

None of the things you mention are luck. They are examples of skill (or lack of it) and hard work by teams of people dedicated to achieving a goal. Whether it rains hard at time A or 20 seconds later, which in this case effectively decided the outcome, is luck in the sense that it had nothing to do with the participants invovled. Having said that, however, the fact that these two drivers were the ones in witha shot was not luck.

[Tenmantaylor]

Lewis was not half as lucky as Massa would be had he won a title based on a gifted win at Spa and one of the most dubiously awarded F1 points in history after the Bourdais debacle. Without FIA interference Lewis could have stayed behind Glock and still won the title.

That said Massa was hugely unlucky in that his team screwed him out of two almost guarenteed wins either of which would have secured him the title.

[Gareth]

Not sure I'd describe it as luck. Without the rain, Hamilton finishes 4th or 5th and wins the WDC. With the rain, Hamilton finishes 5th and wins the WDC.

The rain was the cause of both Glock being ahead and ultimately falling behind. It all evened out, IMO, so no luck (good or bad) there.

[giacomo]

Originally posted by Apex

I don't think you can call it luck just because there didn't happen to be the precise amount of rain that would have made Hamilton pit while at the same time allowing Glock to keep his position.

You would not call it luck that the amount of rain was big enough to slow down the Toyotas in the last lap just enough to allow Hamilton the needed 5th place?

How else, great strategy?

[rolf123]

It was blatantly luck. That the rain increased more on the final lap saved Hamilton.

Just take a look at the fair gambling odds for the beginning of the final lap. Massa was a clear favourite, even with knowledge of Glock's position.

[Gareth]

Originally posted by rolf123
It was blatantly luck. That the rain increased more on the final lap saved Hamilton.

Was it not bad luck that the rain on the earlier laps had been just enough to inspire all teams save 1 to change tyres but not quite enough to make the slicks undriveable?

Like I said before, it all evened out, if you judge it from when the rain began, rather than from the start of the final lap.

[Tony Mandara]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ensign14

Eddie Jordan, founder and former boss of F1 constructors' team Jordan, said the lack of Eddie Jordan stories had been a "scandal," adding that the Irish-born team owner had placed himself in a hopeless position with a misjudged, defensive sponsorship management, before pulling it out of the fire at the death by finding a publicity-hungry steelbroker.

The Irishman claimed that only his splendid hairpiece could outdo Flavio Flav's salt and pepper 'do as the Italian – aided by his Latin charm – surged past in the nick of time into the marriage he needed to sneak the headlines.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Journalism at it's most hilarious!!!


Eddie Jordan eh? If you can't laugh at him..............


......... ..... ..... ....... ...... ... ..... ..... ........ .....

Well, you can always laugh at him can't you?!!!


The headline should have read:

"Eddie Jordan completely forgets what he said earlier this week!!"


BTW: "You should put the "luck thing" away, everybody gets it, good or bad, it's not exclusive." Bernie Ecclestone


Tony.