34 replies to this topic

[Giraffe]

It is generally presumed that the unique Chevron B5 BRM currently resides at the Boxenstop Museum at Tuebingen near Stuttgart.
Whilst googling it's website, I was somewhat bemused to see it stood there, with a board declaring it to be the B5 & giving it's history, and yet with a BMW badge on it's nose!
Steve O'Brien reckons that his father and John Scott-Davis sold the car to Willie Green; can anyone confirm that the Boxenstop car is the B5 or not?

Edited by Giraffe, 03 February 2010 - 08:44.

[David McKinney]

Could be...
The B5 was in Germany about 20 years ago

[Steve O'Brien]

It did'nt have a BMW badge when my dad had the car

Steve.

[Giraffe]

Could it be that the B5 had it's BRM engine replaced by a BMW?
I was very familiar with the car when Scottie & Harry ran it on Tuesday nights at Aintree, so I knew it didn't wear a BMW badge then. It used to pass me on the road as it was being driven to the circuit; both Scottie and Harry knew my face as a regular marshal, so I always got a wave!
I just wonder how it has come to sport a BMW badge???

[David McKinney]

I'm pretty sure when it as racing in the late '80s it had a BMW engine (and was described as a B8)

[Giraffe]

Sacrilege! DB would turn in his grave.....

[Steve O'Brien]

So would my dad, he loved that car.

[Giraffe]

Somehow it was special. I remember it as an understated maroon colour; I wonder where the engine originated from or went too? Now if I won the lottery.......

[Steve O'Brien]

I think the engine went to DB straight from BRM

[Giraffe]

I've e-mailed the museum to try and find out more about the car and how it came to be there

[Giraffe]

I've had a reply from Rainer Klink at the Boxenstop Museum. He tells me that the B5 has had a total of 14 owners including himself, and that he purchased the car off Trevor Needham in 1986. David Bridges was the first owner, which accounts for Brian Redman driving it on it's debut.
So with Willie Green, John Scott-Davies, David Bridges and Rainer Klink, it only leaves me with 10 other previous owners to identify! And yes, it now has a BMW motor. :

[Steve O'Brien]

Sort of makes it just a B8 then shame nothing against B8's great car but what made the B5 was that BRM V8

[Giraffe]

Sorry to not credit Harry O'Brien with ownership, Steve; I presume both he and Scottie count as one owner.
I'll try and identify who took the BRM unit out, as well as the other 10 owners.

[Tweddell]

car was raced at nurburgring 1000km in may 1967 , was entered as chevron brm by david bridges, drivers were Brian Redman (GB)/Allan Rollinson (GB), colour was white.
the car at boxenstop-museum looks quite different from this very early appearence at the ring in 1967. it was a lot faster than as the second chevron (b6) powered by bmw, although the brm engine became a bit smokey at the end of the race.

[Giraffe]

I've now had further information from Rainer Klink at the Boxenstop Museum; the H.S.C.C. Vehicle Identity form lists the following previous owners of the B5:

David Bridges - 1966.
John Burton - 1968.
Willie Green - 1969.
Peter Kaye - 1969.
Willie Tuckett - 1970.
Malcolm Clube - 1973.
Fred Boothby - 1973.
Richard Kwolek - 1974.
John Beasley - 1976.
Robert Linwood - 1977.
Kevin Donan - 1982.
Trevor Needham - 1984.

To my & doubtless Steve O'Brien's dismay, neither Harry, his father, nor John Scott-Davies are mentioned, which doesn't say alot for the credibility of H.S.C.C. records. They were car dealers though I suppose, who just used to race the stock!
Interestingly, Rainer has 2 other Chevrons in the museum, one a BDG engined B16, and the other, the famous BMW M12 engined B26 that is mentioned in another thread about famous people in racecars, having being driven by John Noakes!!!

(Finally edited - Thanks to Bill Harding & Dave McKinney).

Edited by Giraffe, 03 February 2010 - 08:59.

[Bill Harding]

Lost in translation...................
Names should read...Willie Tuckett, Malcolm Clube, Fred Boothby, Richard Kwolek..........

Tuckett raced it with Gropa Spyder bodywork and it was Richard Kwolek who re-bodied it with a Specialised Mouldings shell.

[David McKinney]

...and presumably Willie Green

[Giraffe]

Thanks for that. Bill; I posted it verbatum. The poor old car really has been round the block, so as to speak.
If I won the lottery, I would take it back to the UK, and find a Tasman BRM 2 litre..............

[Gregor Marshall]

Originally posted by Bill Harding
Lost in translation...................
Names should read...Willie Tuckett, Malcolm Clube, Fred Boothby, Richard Kwolek..........

Fred Boothby or Squadron Leader Boothby??

[David McKinney]

Don't think they had Squadron Leaders in the Army, Gregor

[Gregor Marshall]

Getting my Boothby's mixed up; I was thinking on Jim/James Boothby who was RAF, whoops!! Was Fred his brother? I know he had a brother who used to race MGBs in the '80s & '90s.

[David McKinney]

Don't know if there was a connection - I never considered it. Though if they're both from service backgrounds I guess there's a possibility

[Red Socks]

Originally posted by Giraffe
I've now had further information from Rainer Klink at the Boxenstop Museum; the H.S.C.C. Vehicle Identity form lists the following previous owners of the B5:

David Bridges - 1966.
John Burton - 1968.
Willie Greene - 1969.
Peter Kay - 1969.
Bill Tuckett - 1970.
Mallonde Clude - 1973.
Fred Bothby - 1973.
Richard Kwoley - 1974.
John Beasley - 1976.
Robert Linwood - 1977.
Kevin Donan - 1982.
Trevor Needham - 1984.

To my & doubtless Steve O'Brien's dismay, neither Harry, his father, nor John Scott-Davies are mentioned, which doesn't say alot for the credibility of H.S.C.C. records. They were car dealers though I suppose, who just used to race the stock!
Interestingly, Rainer has 2 other Chevrons in the museum, one a BDG engined B16, and the other, the famous BMW M12 engined B26 that is mentioned in another thread about famous people in racecars, having being driven by John Noakes!!!

In all fairness to the HSCC the only records they have are what the applicant for their HSCC VIF put on the application, and sadly many of those applicants did not know the history of the car, often it was just an old racing car. In 1975 Trevor Needham would have had no need to check or resaerch the information to make his application.

[Mallory Dan]

Noakes in a B26?? I recall the B29, not the sportscar, when/where was this?

[adminj]

Originally posted by Giraffe
Somehow it was special. I remember it as an understated maroon colour; I wonder where the engine originated from or went too? Now if I won the lottery.......

Perhaps you´ll like this picture on my site www.norisringhistorie.de ? Norisring - "200 Miles" - July 1967 - Driver: Brian Redman - Chevron B5-BRM - Foto by Dieter Fischer




Regards

Jürgen

[Red Socks]

Originally posted by Giraffe
Thanks for that. Bill; I posted it verbatum. The poor old car really has been round the block, so as to speak.
If I won the lottery, I would take it back to the UK, and find a Tasman BRM 2 litre..............

Should not be too big an issue Giraffe. When the HGPCA decided that the Tasman series started on 1.1.66 and that their series ended on 31.12.65 suddenly several 2 litre engines became available. One went into a BT8,Duncan Daytons I think, not sure where the others went but there are two Lotus23 which could use them and I think a Daren -but maybe that car still has its original .
Troll up to Hall andf Hall with your little bag of gold and off you go.

[Paul Hurdsfield]

I recall Trevor Needham as being into Ginetta's in a big way, he had quite a collection of them, among his many other interesting cars. Anyone know if he's still around and wheeling and dealing ?

I did a search on here but nothing came up, I also tried googling but that drew a blank also

[Doug Nye]

Little Will Tuckett's concise-version story of life with the car appears in the BRM Saga, Volume 3, together with the engine story.

Hope you don't mind my mentioning that.

DCN

[Giraffe]

Thanks a million for that, Doug! So where do I send the cheque?!?!

[Giraffe]

Originally posted by adminj


Perhaps you´ll like this picture on my site www.norisringhistorie.de ? Norisring - "200 Miles" - July 1967 - Driver: Brian Redman - Chevron B5-BRM - Foto by Dieter Fischer




Regards

Jürgen

Lottery win still awaits at odds I'm told of 17 million to 1, (statistically you have more chance of being murdered!),& tales of the one and only ever manufactured Chevron B5 keep emerging.
In this month's Motorsport, John Burton talks of owning it for a short while in 1969, and selling it to Willie Green. However, Steve O'Brien reckons his dad and co-owner John Scott Davies sold it to Willie. I knew the car when Harry O'Brien and Scottie owned it, so whether this was before or after John Burton now, I'm unsure. Burton says it gave 250bhp with the BRM unit as opposed to 180bhp from the BMW and Willie says he changed the 1880cc BRM unit for a 2-litre centre-port BRM on a six-speed box which he also reckons gave 250bhp?!?! Willie later rated the BMW engine in a later ex-works B8 he owned as "agricultural" by comparison to the BRM!
One thing's for sure; it was rather like pass the parcel with the B5 at the time! This was just an excuse for me to re-post Dieter Fischer's pic of the car from the Norisring in 1967. Now all I require are some improved lottery odds and a trip to Boxenstop with my chequebook.......... :

[Giraffe]

By giraffe138 at 2009-03-02

Here is the Chevron B5 as it is today in the Boxenstop Museum in Tuebingen near Stuttgart, with a BMW unit replacing the BRM powerplant.

Photo courtesy of Bjoern Schmidt, 2003.

[r.atlos]

Originally posted by Giraffe

David Bridges - 1966.
John Burton - 1968.
Willie Greene - 1969.
Peter Kay - 1969.

May be this helps a little bit:

Autosport of 13/Spt/1968:

- John Scott-Davies pictured in B5 at Aintree on 07/Spt/1968 as well as
- a small ad as follows:



Autosport of 10/01/1969:

Comment as follows:



Then in subsequent issues a number of pics of Green in B5 e.g. at Silverstone on 17/05/1969 (Autosport 23/05/1969) and Thruxton in late April / early May 1969 (Autosport 09/05/1969) followed by this snippet on 20/06/1969:



Thus, we have clearly John Scott-Davies before Willie Green.

[Giraffe]

Thus, we have clearly John Scott-Davies before Willie Green. [/B][/QUOTE]

Many thanks for this very useful information, r.atlos; it has never been in doubt that Scottie & Harry had the car before Willie, but in this month's Motorsport, John Burton claims to have raced the car for a short while in 1969 before selling it to Willie. Now Steve O'Brien says his dad and Scottie sold it to Willie, but there hardly seems time for John Burton to have owned it and to have raced it, unless he squeezed in a couple of races at the end of 1968, which seems most likely to have been the case if you look at all the evidence.

So, it would appear that in all probability Steve is mistaken, and Scottie and Harry sold the car to John Burton in September 1968 just in time to give it a race at Silverstone at the end of that season, (and not 1969 as John says in Motorsport), before ordering a new B8 BMW from the works at the end of that year and moving the B5 to Willie Green for 1969.

Thanks again for your invaluable research, r.athos; much appreciated.

[Giraffe]

By giraffe138 at 2009-03-08

The Chevron B5 when owned by Willie Green features in the full page Chevron ad on page 119 of the current edition of Motor Sport magazine. (Only it's become a Cheveron!) :

[Giraffe]

By giraffe138 at 2009-01-08

In the background of this pic of Paul Hawkins Lola T70 Mk111B taken on the morning of the fateful day he perished in it, is Willie Green's transporter featured in the Chevron ad in this month's Motor Sport magazine. (See my last post). The B5 sat in it all weekend as for some reason that I have yet to establish, the RAC refused to let Willie race it.