63 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

As you guys know, Loeb tested for Red Bull earlier this week, and actually posted respectable times. I initally thought "this guy could come to F1".

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/72194 - The Red Bull performance manager agreed.

However, he's 34. I think he's a little too late for F1 - I know drivers like McNish and D. Hill were late starters in F1 - but 34 is getting on a bit in F1 terms IMO.

Thoughts?

[Ricardo F1]

Waaaay too old.

[KWSN - DSM]

Depend on the expectations.

Could he switch over, qualify and race in F1? - Yes.

Would he be competitive and at pace of his team mate? - No, but he would be no worse than other 'mediocre' F1 drivers before him.

Loeb will not be able to switch and become a winner or Champion, he could score the occasional point though. F1 racing is simply not comparable, and Hamilton, Alonso or Raikkonen would equallly never win a WRC rally or championship were they to switch.

[santori]

He's probably not too old for F1 but he probably is too old for the team bosses.

I think he'll win Le Mans one day, though.

[Orin]

I want to say 'no', but in truth it's far too late and he'd only tarnish a stellar career.

[MikeTekRacing]

I think it's more up to him and what he feels rather than anything else.
if he feels he needs a new challenge and if he is motivated inside, he is not too old.
if not then...

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by D.M.N.
However, he's 34. I think he's a little too late for F1 - I know drivers like McNish and D. Hill were late starters in F1 - but 34 is getting on a bit in F1 terms IMO.

Thoughts?

Simply another sign of the Apocalypse for f1 when 34 is considered "too old."

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Simply another sign of the Apocalypse for f1 when 34 is considered "too old."

Prost won his first WDC only three months before turning 31. And Hamilton showed that if you have a fast car, you don't need the years of experience that Prost required to win his first WDC. And he went on to win more as well. Mansell won his WDC when he was 39 years old. He then went as a rookie to Champ cars, and he won that championship, at 40 years old.

I think the young drivers are cheap. What better way for the old men like Flavio and Ron etc. to make money, than to tie up young drivers on deals where they get millions for themselves and the young drivers are happy to simply get a drive in F1. Like other things in F1, the young drivers is just a ploy to make individual wealth for the old men of F1.

Young drivers also keep the top driver's salaries down. No one wants another Schumacher. Alonso looked like he could be like MS, but Uncle Ron played the youth card beautifully, and he had the satisfaction of hurting Flavio in doing that, as Flavio had been Ferdinand's manager. But FA went behind Flavio's back and joined McLaren. Little did he know that although he thought he was the clever one in the game, he just did not know how well the old guys knew how to play the cards.

[COUGAR508]

Originally posted by santori
He's probably not too old for F1 but he probably is too old for the team bosses.

I think he'll win Le Mans one day, though.

Yes, sportscar racing could definitely be an option for him.

At his age, it may be deemed that he would not be able to adapt to the physical demands of actual racing in F1.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by COUGAR508
At his age, it may be deemed that he would not be able to adapt to the physical demands of actual racing in F1.

What a crock of baloney......

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


What a crock of baloney......

He might be right Don. The ideal formula 1 driver should be four feet 10 inches tall, and weigh no more than 55kg. Ballast is more important at the end of the day, its got a lower Centre of Gravity. And its less expensive too, and recyclable.

[COUGAR508]

I'm not necessarily saying that he would struggle with the physical demands. That is one of the reservations which may be expressed by team owners.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by COUGAR508
I'm not necessarily saying that he would struggle with the physical demands. That is one of the reservations which may be expressed by team owners.

Do you know how long rallies go for?

Rally drivers have huge endurance. Their failing has been that in one lap, they don't have the ultimate speed. When the chips are down, and the driver needs to run that one genius brilliant crazy lap, the F1 driver can, the rally driver just is on another planet. That's not his game, at all.

That Loeb can - is bloody amazing. That he can at his age - is almost tragic. If one believe in youth being fast, then Loeb would surely have been the best F1 driver of all time. Or maybe the fact is, youth is not such an advantage.

[potmotr]

Not too late, but too much of a risk. There are younger guys who can do an equal job, so why go for a 30-something unknown.

And the WRC doesn't have a massive media profile these days, so the marketing benefits are negligible.

That said, I think Loeb could have a great career in sportscars should he choose to.

Was great to see his awesome reactions in the RBR car the other day. He's like Alesi in that respect.

[wewantourdarbyback]

In this day and age I doubt he would get in, but I reckon a lot of the rally drivers past and present would have represented the sport very well if they had the chance in F1.

[johnap]

He will end up in sportscars, theres a long history of rally drivers doing endurance racing and doing well, something to do with thinking beyond the next corner.

[pingu666]

on the plus side such a move would probably make rallying more than a race to 2nd place

[Tenmantaylor]

It's not physically impossible and it was a damn respectable test Wont happen tho.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Originally posted by pingu666
on the plus side such a move would probably make rallying more than a race to 2nd place

He only won it this season because of Hirvonen's bad luck and the stupid rule changes ;)

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
He might be right Don. The ideal formula 1 driver should be four feet 10 inches tall, and weigh no more than 55kg. Ballast is more important at the end of the day, its got a lower Centre of Gravity. And its less expensive too, and recyclable.

Sorry, but you are correct, of course. However, the goal is probably more along the lines of no taller than four foot eight and maybe no more than 50 kilos max in gear or any older than 22.

Sad to imagine that F1 will never see the likes of men such as Dan Gurney or Graham Hill again -- or even Jim Clark, for that matter, since even he would probably be deemed too large and not possessing the "correct" attitude needed these days.

[qwazy]

I'd put Loeb in a seat, no questions asked. Right now? He's a race car driver, as far as I'm concerned. If he can do what he does in a rally car and then jump into a mediocre F1 car and put respectable times? Without a shadow of a doubt.

I think age and experience is underrated. He knows how to be a champion at the highest level of his discipline. That's something you can't train someone for in a simulator.


And just look at the guy! If he's not a throw-back to the drivers of the 70's and 80's (men's men) then I don't know who is.

[VresiBerba]

MelP says 5"10' is the ideal height of a Formula 1 driver. Don says 5"8'. I say 1 Ångström is the ideal. But since Ångström isn't an SI-unit, I'm probably wrong.

[Slowinfastout]

It's hilarious some people are seriously considering Loeb while the other french Seb, who is a marginally younger, thouroughly competent and experienced single-seater driver, is on the edge of losing his seat in the same 'organisation' (Red-Bull/STR)..

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by VresiBerba
MelP says 5"10' is the ideal height of a Formula 1 drover. Don says 5"8'. I say 1 Ångström is the ideal. But since Ångström isn't an SI-unit, I'm probably wrong.

Ah, 4 feet 8 inches (which is notated as 4' 8") or approximately 142.24 cm for the numerically challenged. You were only off by about 1 foot or about 30 cm. I have the misfortune to live in a country that is still struggling with the metric system despite it being made the official measurement system in 1866.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Sad to imagine that F1 will never see the likes of men such as Dan Gurney or Graham Hill again -- or even Jim Clark, for that matter, since even he would probably be deemed too large and not possessing the "correct" attitude needed these days.

Jim Clark dancing on the table - he'd be sacked for that these days. Or worse still, have to suffer long lectures from Ron Dennis, in person. And then have to bulldust to the Press about how its no big deal. They are all corporately smoothed these days. Who speaks out anymore? They have Press training, they are controlled by their personal trainers. Those guys are owned ... Whenever someone like Webber does, its sounds as if he's looking over his shoulder as he speaks, awaiting to be attacked.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps


Ah, 4 feet 8 inches (which is notated as 4' 8") or approximately 142.24 cm for the numerically challenged. You were only off by about 1 foot or about 30 cm. I have the misfortune to live in a country that is still struggling with the metric system despite it being made the official measurement system in 1866.

Thanks Don. And you're right about 50kg being better ... if your scared of horses, then give up on being a jockey, and become an F1 driver.

How shocked the aspiring F1 drivers must be, to discover than Bernie's wife has separated from him. His wife was an inspiration to all up and coming F1 drivers ...

[Slowinfastout]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park


Thanks Don. And you're right about 50kg being better ... if your scared of horses, then give up on being a jockey, and become an F1 driver.

How shocked the aspiring F1 drivers must be, to discover than Bernie's wife has separated from him. His wife was an inspiration to all up and coming F1 drivers ...

I think that's sad... (the size requirements of nowadays F1 drivers)

It would be 'wrong' to mess with the DNA of horses to make them large enough to sportively carry around a regular healthy human being, but with sports cars it's ridiculous... the hardware should be adjusted to us not the other way around..

[Smudger]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Jim Clark dancing on the table - he'd be sacked for that these days. Or worse still, have to suffer long lectures from Ron Dennis, in person. And then have to bulldust to the Press about how its no big deal. They are all corporately smoothed these days. Who speaks out anymore? They have Press training, they are controlled by their personal trainers. Those guys are owned ... Whenever someone like Webber does, its sounds as if he's looking over his shoulder as he speaks, awaiting to be attacked.

If Innes Ireland was alive today, he'd be turning in his grave...

[Vitesse2]

Not so much too late, but apparently too scruffy ;)

Here's an interesting idea: put Loeb and Valentino Rossi in (say) a Force India to compare their times. Then put a couple of F1 drivers from other teams in the cars and see what results.

[MonzaOne]

I would venture that the difference between those claimiming it is "too late" is attitude. Why is it too late? When did such stunted thinking - so very 21st century - become part of formula 1? Oh thats right, when it became so very coporate and anal. Makes me think of Ron Dennis who is one of the most UNoriginal bosses in f1. He and the late Bruce Mclaren so very opposite in mindset. One a creator the other merely a follower.

Just look at Piquet - young and will never be any better in f1 than he is now. Then there was Nigel [Mansell to the ignorant] and who used to blow away Piquet's father and overtake in places that were supposedly impossible - and "Our Noige" became better and better as he got older and after bad luck finally dominated to win the 1992 championship at 39 [OMG!!! he should not even BE in f1!].

If Loeb is good at such an early stage then God Bless Him he should be hired!! Could he do conceivable worse than the current crop of Red Bull driver other than SebVet? I do not think so.

[MonzaOne]

Originally posted by santori
He's probably not too old for F1 but he probably is too old for the team bosses.

I think he'll win Le Mans one day, though.

Well, if you say you cant then that its then!

[Hacklerf]

If your fast enough, your old/young enough

[Ferrari shambles]

Stick him in with the Scumeria he will be quicker and much more interesting than the current pilots

[Orin]

I see the piss & vinegar brigade have surfaced. 34 is patently too old to embark on an F1 career, no amount of pointing to yesteryear is going to change the fact that today's cars and circuits are physically hugely demanding, and that the competition from the hungry young whipper-snappers formidable; if they gave Loeb a drive they couldn't really afford to wait two years to see him settle into the role. No top team would give him a seat, he'd have to settle for a team with more interest in his sponsorship potential than his talent. Personally, I fail to see why Loeb would want to end his career pootling around at the back of the F1 grid.

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park


Prost won his first WDC only three months before turning 31. And Hamilton showed that if you have a fast car, you don't need the years of experience that Prost required to win his first WDC. And he went on to win more as well. Mansell won his WDC when he was 39 years old. He then went as a rookie to Champ cars, and he won that championship, at 40 years old.

I think the young drivers are cheap. What better way for the old men like Flavio and Ron etc. to make money, than to tie up young drivers on deals where they get millions for themselves and the young drivers are happy to simply get a drive in F1. Like other things in F1, the young drivers is just a ploy to make individual wealth for the old men of F1.

Young drivers also keep the top driver's salaries down. No one wants another Schumacher. Alonso looked like he could be like MS, but Uncle Ron played the youth card beautifully, and he had the satisfaction of hurting Flavio in doing that, as Flavio had been Ferdinand's manager. But FA went behind Flavio's back and joined McLaren. Little did he know that although he thought he was the clever one in the game, he just did not know how well the old guys knew how to play the cards.

Excellent analysis!

[Atreiu]

I'm glad 34 isn't actually too old.
I still have hope!

[andy-i]

Originally posted by COUGAR508


At his age, it may be deemed that he would not be able to adapt to the physical demands of actual racing in F1.

What a load of crock!!

Before he took up rallying he was a very competent gymnast (He was fifth in the French championship) so his natual fitness and athletism is a given. Those guys have to be as fit as ****

[Smudger]

Of course, once upon a Long Time Ago there was much more freedom in whom teams could enter at individual races, so for his home grand prix RBR could enter him in a third car to see how he would go. Except, that is now against the rules, without T-cars there aren't spare chassis laying around and he no longer has a home GP. Same with Rossi - imagine him in a 3rd Ferrari at Monza - would that help get bums on seats? I think it might. When Surtees went from bikes to cars he made a gradual crossover. And he didn't do badly...

Deregulate F1!

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Orin
34 is patently too old to embark on an F1 career, no amount of pointing to yesteryear is going to change the fact that today's cars and circuits are physically hugely demanding,

Personally, I fail to see why Loeb would want to end his career pootling around at the back of the F1 grid.

B/S, he already has a top line racing career it's just a consideration of another class of car and if you bother to read the post's he was/is a world class athelete.

The back markers in F1 are probably better known in many countries than the front runners in the WRC and I doubt with his ultra-competitive nature he would "pootle".

There has been a number of rally drivers tested at various times over the years and some were very, very fast but in most cases, Hannu Mikkola, Ari Vatinen, Walter Rohl for example, simply too tall/large. Also in Hannu's case who apparently had an offer made after testing he was so fast, he simply prefered rallying to going "round and round".

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Smudger
Of course, once upon a Long Time Ago there was much more freedom in whom teams could enter at individual races, so for his home grand prix RBR could enter him in a third car to see how he would go. Except, that is now against the rules, without T-cars there aren't spare chassis laying around and he no longer has a home GP. Same with Rossi - imagine him in a 3rd Ferrari at Monza - would that help get bums on seats? I think it might. When Surtees went from bikes to cars he made a gradual crossover. And he didn't do badly...

Deregulate F1!

+1

Yeah whats up the FIA's ass with that - if a driver can prove (and needs to prove) he has the background and is a safe to be on the track why can't he?

[pingu666]

3rd cars for selected events would be awsome

[potmotr]

Originally posted by pingu666
3rd cars for selected events would be awsome

But never going to happen.

All the teams would have to agree, and there is no way the tail end teams will want another Ferrari or RBR car on the grid which would potentially cost them points and money.

[Andy Davies]

Originally posted by andy-i

What a load of crock!!

Before he took up rallying he was a very competent gymnast (He was fifth in the French championship) so his natual fitness and athletism is a given. Those guys have to be as fit as ****

Indeed

When he first came into rallying he was a bit of a tarmac specialist because he came from a track racing rather than rallying background.

So you never know he might have what it takes.

[Smudger]

Originally posted by potmotr


But never going to happen.

All the teams would have to agree, and there is no way the tail end teams will want another Ferrari or RBR car on the grid which would potentially cost them points and money.

That's the trouble, it shouldn't be up to the other teams to choose who enters a race! If Ferrari want to enter 5 cars at Monza - like they used to - then it's up to the other teams to beat them, not whine about it. If Honda or Force India can't beat them in qualifying, then they don't deserve to be in the race - it's meant to be competitive. Part of the trouble with F1 is the crap at the back of the field.

[Rob]

Originally posted by Smudger


That's the trouble, it shouldn't be up to the other teams to choose who enters a race! If Ferrari want to enter 5 cars at Monza - like they used to - then it's up to the other teams to beat them, not whine about it. If Honda or Force India can't beat them in qualifying, then they don't deserve to be in the race - it's meant to be competitive. Part of the trouble with F1 is the crap at the back of the field.

I agree with you. Current teams should not be able to have a say as to who else can enter. Limit the starting grid to a set number by all means, but anyone with a legal car should be allowed to enter if they want to.

[arthurive]

Originally posted by Smudger


If Innes Ireland was alive today, he'd be turning in his grave...

Maybe I'm dull witted, but........

[Smudger]

Originally posted by arthurive


Maybe I'm dull witted, but........

Robert McGregor Innes Ireland. Grand Prix driver (Lotus mostly, 1 Ferrari drive) 1930-1993. 50 races, 1 win.
A bit of an outspoken character, not one to accept the diplomatic option where a punch on the nose would suffice. Not a man to watch what he said or be constrained by a sponsor's wishes...

[Man of the race]

Loeb could be mighty good in gravel, better than f.ex. Piquet jr.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by Smudger
Robert McGregor Innes Ireland. Grand Prix driver (Lotus mostly, 1 Ferrari drive) 1930-1993. 50 races, 1 win.
A bit of an outspoken character, not one to accept the diplomatic option where a punch on the nose would suffice. Not a man to watch what he said or be constrained by a sponsor's wishes...

That is one win GP is if you ignore all the non-championship wins -- in 1961, prior to Watkins Glen, won at Solitude in what can only be described as a great performance, as well as the Flugplatzrennen at Zeltweg. This is in addition to wins in 1960 and 1962-1964.

Truly one of racing's great characters, and still sorely missed.

[MonzaOne]

Originally posted by Smudger


That's the trouble, it shouldn't be up to the other teams to choose who enters a race! If Ferrari want to enter 5 cars at Monza - like they used to - then it's up to the other teams to beat them, not whine about it. If Honda or Force India can't beat them in qualifying, then they don't deserve to be in the race - it's meant to be competitive. Part of the trouble with F1 is the crap at the back of the field.

I nearly jumped out of my chair applauding and cheering you!

I agree! Brilliant! Just Brilliant!