Very old newbie
#1
Posted 27 November 2008 - 10:17
As my user id suggests, I left the wonderful world of motor racing in the early 70’s while still a Formula 3 mechanic, and settled down near Southampton to start a garage business. My best mate while I was growing up in Kent was Andy Sutcliffe (one-time F3 driver), both of us born in 1947, and we started playing grown-ups with cars in 1967, him as a driver, and me as his mechanic. Like most partnerships, we spent far too much time doing it wrong, swore a lot (mostly at each other) but we stayed in this arrangement through club racing in the early years with Ginettas (G4 & G12), then into F3 starting with a Merlin (!), then Brabham, finally with Lotuses doing a great many international races. In 1970 I moved up north and joined Barrie Maskell’s NERO F3 team racing Chevrons, and went racing with him in Europe and the UK, plus a memorable jaunt to Brazil in December/January 1971, before culminating my racing career after Monaco in 1971.
One of these days I plan to write a book about my experiences which include some of the most hilarious times of my life, and some of the names I see in your pages on this site bring the memories flooding back. Amongst truly personal friends during that time were the great and the good like James Hunt, Alan Jones, Emerson Fittipaldi, & Jody Sheckter, not to mention countless others who never achieved the same worldwide fame and fortune, like David Purley (with whom I shared my hotel room in Rio), Peter Hanson, Chris Skeaping, Mike Beuttler, Claud Bourgoignie, Bev Bond, Brendan McInerney and God knows how many others. Some of the peripheral characters I remember very fondly too, like crazy Brian Kreisky the photographer and PR guy, Twiggy my fellow wrench, Glen my apprentice wrench, and the kind and generous Lanfranchi family in Bradford when I was with NERO in Yorkshire.
I would be very happy to share all of my motor-racing experiences with members of the forum, and perfectly OK if anyone wants to PM me for privacy. I have some stories, particularly regarding Messrs Hunt and Sutcliffe, which would make your hair curl and possibly land me in court on libel charges. So maybe best left for the book!
My only contact with racing these days is an occasional visit to my old pal Nick Skeaping (brother of Chris and former mechanic, now an art dealer) and my cousin Bob Potter who despite being 150 years old is hoping to take his Corvette racing next year. I never miss the Goodwood Revival and occasionally nip down to a local meeting at Castle Combe which still has a great club racing atmosphere.
If anyone can help me with tracing the whereabouts of Andy Sutcliffe and Barrie Maskell, I would be really grateful. I heard that Barrie had a bad accident at home and is now disabled but still races a Porsche apparently, and I last heard from Andy when he was running a bamboo nursery in the depths of Kent, but lost touch since.
I now live in Bristol and work as an QA Analyst & Tester in IT for J P Morgan in Swindon. Sorry for the lengthy preamble, but I’m really looking forward to hearing from any of you that may want to contact me.
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#2
Posted 27 November 2008 - 10:26
Looking forward to hearing some of your stories Cheers, Mick
#3
Posted 27 November 2008 - 11:51
Originally posted by F3Wrench
I now live in Bristol and work as an QA Analyst & Tester in IT for J P Morgan in Swindon.
I would suggest joining Bristol Motor Club who have a lively Club Night each month and run sprints at Castle Combe & Colerne. Full details on their website:
http://www.bristolmc.org.uk/
Welcome to TNF, I am sure your input will be invaluable.
#4
Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:11
#5
Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:13
And, rest assured about David Purley: he's very well remembered, and has a special place in the hearts of many.
#6
Posted 27 November 2008 - 14:44
And yes David Purley is a real boys own hero who will certainly live in my memory til' the day I die.
Edited to add.....you cant be that old, cos' your only 2 years older than me, and I'm just a kid ;)
#7
Posted 27 November 2008 - 15:32
Welcome, and be prepared to be bombarded with questions!
#8
Posted 27 November 2008 - 16:01
#9
Posted 27 November 2008 - 16:11
#10
Posted 27 November 2008 - 18:44
Or alternatively the far superior Bristol Pegasus Motor Club, who also have a lively club night each month, run sprints at Colerne, Castle Combe and Llandow, and organise many events suited to the grass-roots competitor. Full details on their website:Originally posted by Stephen W
I would suggest joining Bristol Motor Club who have a lively Club Night each month and run sprints at Castle Combe & Colerne. Full details on their website:
http://www.bristolmc.org.uk/
http://www.bristolpegasus.com/
#11
Posted 27 November 2008 - 19:00
#12
Posted 27 November 2008 - 19:19
Originally posted by F3Wrench
If anyone can help me with tracing the whereabouts of Andy Sutcliffe
If the man can work a computer, he will probably turn up here sooner or later. That's the way of TNF!
#13
Posted 27 November 2008 - 20:09
DCN
#14
Posted 27 November 2008 - 20:33
#15
Posted 27 November 2008 - 21:10
Originally posted by F3Wrench
not to mention countless others who never achieved the same worldwide fame and fortune, Mike Beuttler, .
There's a name you don't here much . I've always been curious about his reason for quitting racing . Seems odd he would reach the pinnacle (F-1) and just walk away completely . Am I right he never raced again after the USGP in 73 ? Did he just lose the desire ? Tired of chasing finances ? If you don't know , perhaps someone else does .
Oh , and welcome .
#16
Posted 27 November 2008 - 22:05
Try this:Originally posted by REDARMYSOJA
There's a name you don't here much . I've always been curious about his reason for quitting racing . Seems odd he would reach the pinnacle (F-1) and just walk away completely . Am I right he never raced again after the USGP in 73 ? Did he just lose the desire ? Tired of chasing finances ? If you don't know , perhaps someone else does .
Oh , and welcome .
http://forums.autosp...&threadid=45865
Philippe's book must be due by now ....
#18
Posted 27 November 2008 - 23:53
Why did Beuttler stop when he did? Had the funds dried up? Had he lost the appetite following Cevert’s fatal accident – he’d often toddle along the pitlane and have a chat with the Frenchman I’ve been told.
I was curious as to why he hung up the helmet . I see in that thread linked that he did compete at least once more after 73 at Brands Hatch , I was never real clear on the others races listed whether he was actual there or not . MCS mention the Cervet accident . I wondered if it was something along those lines as to why he quit . Just seems even if he had tired of F-1 he would have tried the occasional club meet or something . Perhaps when the book comes out in English , we'll all find out .
#19
Posted 28 November 2008 - 08:48
Originally posted by F3Wrench
As my user id suggests, I left the wonderful world of motor racing in the early 70’s while still a Formula 3 mechanic, and settled down near Southampton to start a garage business. My best mate while I was growing up in Kent was Andy Sutcliffe (one-time F3 driver), both of us born in 1947, and we started playing grown-ups with cars in 1967, him as a driver, and me as his mechanic. Like most partnerships, we spent far too much time doing it wrong, swore a lot (mostly at each other) but we stayed in this arrangement through club racing in the early years with Ginettas (G4 & G12), then into F3 starting with a Merlin (!), then Brabham, finally with Lotuses doing a great many international races.
The great days of 1 Litre F3. This is the Andy Sutcliffe GRD at Brands in 1972. The car in front is Tim Brise's GRD which tried to vault the Druids wall upside down! Brother Tony won in a Brabham.
A big welcome. You don't have to be mad to post here, but it helps
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#20
Posted 28 November 2008 - 08:57
Originally posted by alansart
The car in front is Tim Brise's GRD which tried to vault the Druids wall upside down!
A warm welcome F3wrench.
Didn't Tim Brise try a similar thing at the Esses at Mallory too? I recall photos of both shunts in Autosprout.
#21
Posted 28 November 2008 - 09:19
Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
A warm welcome F3wrench.
Didn't Tim Brise try a similar thing at the Esses at Mallory too? I recall photos of both shunts in Autosprout.
If I remember correctly Tim hurt is neck in the Brands crash and didn't race much after that.
#22
Posted 28 November 2008 - 10:17
David
#23
Posted 28 November 2008 - 10:38
Originally posted by David Lawson
I was standing at Druids when Brise had that accident. The car launched at the end of the braking area and slid for a very long way upside down before hitting the bank, it was a particularly nasty crash and if I remember rightly Brise also swallowed his tongue in the accident.
David
I was directly in line with it and all I could see was the underside of the car coming towards us. As it looked like it might come over the barriers several people jumped back knocking me and a few others over. Not only did I end up with a broken finger after somebody stood on my hand, I also broke my camera
#24
Posted 28 November 2008 - 12:39
In answer to the question to David Birchall, no, I'm not Ken Sykes; although the name has a familiar ring to it. I'm John Richards, once immortalised in the Autosport report on the Interlagos F3 race in January 1971. I got a big-up from Simon (Taylor) because Barrie M and I rebuilt a very bent Chevron B17 overnight and made the race the next day. Oh those were the days, sleepless nights, no food, the roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowds...
It was after my time when Andy was doing well in the GRD, and I didn't know about Tim Brise and his horrific accident. Actually, I was close to far too many accidents over the few short years in F3. It was something of the Battle of Britain spirit accepted by the drivers: some may be injured, some taken prisoner, and some not get home at all. I guess we all got quite sanguine about it all.
One of the luckiest guys to get out of a bad shunt was the man himself, James Hunt. Do any of you remember him flipping his F3 March upside down on the start/finish straight at Zandvoort in '69 or maybe '70? His car slid upside down in the sand at the edge of the track (Zandvoort was half circuit, half beach in those days) and the rollover bar snapped clean off at the butt-welds (!!!!) on the top of the space-frame behind the cockpit.
Luckily for James he was travelling backwards, and instead of being decapitated, his head was forced down into his lap until it came to a standstill. The marshals lifted the car and got him out with no more than severe grazing to the backs of both hands and wrists. In typical James fashion, he said in the hotel later "My head was so far down in my lap, my boy, I could have given myself a b**w-job!"
But what might have happened still makes me shudder. He was such a close friend in those days I don't think I could have taken that.
#25
Posted 28 November 2008 - 12:51
His nickname did seem to fit at the time! You might like to look at this site too http://www.f3history.co.uk
#26
Posted 28 November 2008 - 12:56
#27
Posted 28 November 2008 - 13:02
Originally posted by alansart
The great days of 1 Litre F3. This is the Andy Sutcliffe GRD at Brands in 1972. The car in front is Tim Brise's GRD which tried to vault the Druids wall upside down! Brother Tony won in a Brabham.
Wouldn't it be 1.6 litre at that stage?
#28
Posted 28 November 2008 - 13:20
Originally posted by David Beard
Wouldn't it be 1.6 litre at that stage?
Drat! - Yes it would. 1.6 came in in 1971.
#29
Posted 28 November 2008 - 13:27
#30
Posted 28 November 2008 - 15:02
Originally posted by F3Wrench
One of the luckiest guys to get out of a bad shunt was the man himself, James Hunt. Do any of you remember him flipping his F3 March upside down on the start/finish straight at Zandvoort in '69 or maybe '70? His car slid upside down in the sand at the edge of the track (Zandvoort was half circuit, half beach in those days) and the rollover bar snapped clean off at the butt-welds (!!!!) on the top of the space-frame behind the cockpit.
I thought it was in 1971. I have a vague memory of seeing Hunt spectating at an F2 meeting at Crystal Palace in 1971. He was walking round the infield in civvies and both hands were bandaged from the Zandvoort crash.
David
#31
Posted 28 November 2008 - 15:11
That's the trouble when you get past 60, the memory loss, the aches and pains, the incontinence, and of course the memory loss.
#32
Posted 28 November 2008 - 18:57
Originally posted by F3Wrench
That's the trouble when you get past 60, the memory loss, the aches and pains, the incontinence, and of course the memory loss.
Are you sure your haven't got the wrong birth certificate?
WOULD SOMEBODY ANSWER THAT PHONE!!
#33
Posted 28 November 2008 - 19:08
Very much look forward to seeing your posts. I rated Andy Sutcliffe very highly and can remember being disappointed when his excellent early season form faded in 1972.
Could I respectfully ask why you culminated your racing careeer after Monaco in 1971?
#34
Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:46
Oh -and do write that book, please. The world - or at least me -is crying out for a decent book about F3!
#35
Posted 29 November 2008 - 14:56
Henry
#36
Posted 29 November 2008 - 18:27
i remember Andy coming by the Arches on occasion, we also were familiar with the 3 irishmen, Brendon, Mac an Ernie! I remember Suttie doing some warm up laps around the lean-toos at Brands and hitting the rear suspension on a post, as did others....
I roomed with Baz around 72/73, remember coming back from europe to no electricity since we couldn't pay the bill!
Do you recall Tim (was it Begg)? Long and lean guy mech'd with Nemo, Trimmer and McInerney.
#37
Posted 29 November 2008 - 19:09
One of the more practical reasons was that I wasn't being paid and hadn't been for years; there just wasn't enough money to go round to make it a "formal employment" arrangement, and after years setting a precedent of doing it for the love of F3 and the opportunity to travel, I was just worn out.
But I guess the real reason was that I was rather smitten by a mad American woman who became quite a feature on the F3 scene. She was notorious to say the least, and was involved with a few drivers (Tony Trimmer, Dave Walker, to name two), but I guess she was the reason I was chose the comforts of home against the driving rain of Thruxton or Snetterton! There's so much more to this story but I guess it will have to wait for the book.
I was contacted by a few teams after I left, like my old mates John MacDonald and Mick Ralph who were putting together an F1 team I believe (RAM Racing), and my cousin mentioned Jac Nellerman as being "interested in my body" for another season, but I guess I'd had enough. That pitiful 1.6 twin-cam replacement for the 1-litre screamers didn't impress me either!
So there you go, that's about it. But I often regret leaving; I would have liked to continue, but life has a way of making decisions for you sometimes.
#38
Posted 29 November 2008 - 19:51
I now live in Bristol and work as an QA Analyst & Tester in IT for J P Morgan in Swindon.
Oh dear... it all went wrong for me too and I ended up at JPM ;) Ah well I'm sure we will be outsourced soon and deliver-ed from evil!
#39
Posted 29 November 2008 - 20:36
Originally posted by ghinzani
Oh dear... it all went wrong for me too and I ended up at JPM ;) Ah well I'm sure we will be outsourced soon and deliver-ed from evil!
More likely delivered into evil!
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#40
Posted 29 November 2008 - 21:44
When I joined NERO things were a bit tight, so the B15 was actually being rented out for the odd race. I remember Harry Stiller joining us for a race at Thruxton, and Norman Foulds was a regular driver on some of the European circuits. He had a bit of a habit of bending the car rather a lot, I remember bringing a rather sad looking B15 to the Spanish customs at the French border, missing an engine and with bits hanging off, and trying to explain that the car was not quite the same as the one described in the carnet. After a while I mentioned "Norman Foulds" and the customs guys started nodding slowly repeating "Aaah, Senor Foulds, si, si" and stamped the carnet OK.
And then there was a bizarre occasion when Andy Sutcliffe raced the B15 at Zolder, when Barrie Maskell and James Hunt had the most fantastic dice for the lead; James won by a fraction. Andy enjoyed chucking the B15 around but did not feature too highly as I recall.
The NERO bus was our home for a whole season, and most of the time when I was at our base in Ilkley. It was a real dog of a vehicle, an old extended ex-RAF coach, but we loved that old bus. I think it must still hold the record for being in 1st gear for longest distance when we were crossing the Alps en route from Monaco to Hockenheim. I don't think we actually topped 10 mph for about 50 miles...
There were two mechanics I remember really well at NERO, Paul and Stewart, who were top guys and introduced me to the delights of the Phonograph discotheque in Leeds. In return, I took them back to London with me and got them stoned for about two weeks. Happy days.
And there was fat Barry. A big, tough, Yorkshire builder who spent a lot of time with the NERO team, and potentially the most embarassing person to be around; but extremely likeable nevertheless. He once harangued Graham Hill at the Tip Top bar in Monaco thet he should get rid of his Cosworth V8 and get a Matra or Ferrari engine because it sounded better.
That NERO symbol was great, wasn't it? But I did get a bit fed up with James Hunt et al coming up to us in the paddock and ask for two hamburgers and a hot dog whenever we arrived :-)...
#41
Posted 30 November 2008 - 21:13
Great to hear from you, yes, I remember P & M really well. It was Keith Jupp's Ginetta G12 that Andy bought (if he ever actually paid for it ), and I used to deliver oil cooling equipment to P & M from my cousin's business (Think Automotive) in Southall. I seem to remember a guy called Irish Tim who worked there? And of course Brendan McInerney (all 3 of them) owned or rented the house I lived in at Abbey Road in London.
It was Brendan's team Henderson Team Baty that James Hunt drove for in a March in my early days too. I felt a bit sorry for Brendan most of the time, he was such a misfit in the dog-eat-dog world of F3 and I think a lot of people took advantage of Brendan's desire to participate and his genuine Irish generosity.
Anyway, great to hear from you, and don't mention that VW Transporter; it spent most of its time sideways (even with an F3 on the back) with Andy driving, and as a passenger I spent most of my time wondering if we would end up in a ditch or up a tree.
#42
Posted 30 November 2008 - 21:15
#43
Posted 30 November 2008 - 22:49
Originally posted by F3Wrench
Reply to eurocardoc:
and I used to deliver oil cooling equipment to P & M from my cousin's business (Think Automotive) in Southall.
Why does the name Rob Potter come to my mind with Think Automotive?
#44
Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:19
Rob has had a long and close association with motor racing, with a penchant for big-engined American cars. He ran a NASCAR Camaro back in the 70's, but sadly was a bit too enthusiastic to stay on the island for more than a lap or two; I still have an epic photo at Donington of Bob leaving the circuit at Coppice while in the lead, with the marshals scattering in terror as he ploughed into the tyres. He is about to re-enter the world of classic car racing in 2009 with a frighteningly powerful 7-litre Corvette, and I have foolishly offered to go along to the meetings to assist him and his son with any pre-race prep that my ageing knees will allow. Watch this space!
Rob also has close links with the Danish driver Jac Nellerman (one-time F3 driver) and they attended the 2007 Goodwood Revival meet with a Lotus 23; I believe Jac won his race or was at least highly placed.
#45
Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:49
Originally posted by F3Wrench
Ghinzani - which JPM offices are you at?
Chaseside mate, but I generally wfh.
#46
Posted 02 December 2008 - 14:38
Originally posted by F3Wrench
Reply to Ian Senior:
There were two mechanics I remember really well at NERO, Paul and Stewart, who were top guys and introduced me to the delights of the Phonograph discotheque in Leeds.
Oh God.... I used to go there - that place in a dungeon in the Merrion Centre. I once got thrown out for "pogoing" - the pogo was just about the only "dance" I could reasonably perform.
Thanks for the NERO info - and yes, I remember Norman Foulds now!
#47
Posted 21 December 2008 - 22:54
others around at that time were Billy Williams who was a good buddy of mine, he raced an Hillman Imp and also ran a figlass shop later in Brentford I think. Also the AIRO group of Alan Jones, brian McGuire and Alan McCully with Jim Hardman as their primary mechanic, always looking to get a ride in F3 races. brendon Mc was often around and took a lot of grief from Jupp and co.
I remember the wall of laurel wreath in the shop above the engine area where Paul Vincent spent many hours seven days a week, reminders of wins with Chris lambert and many others. The office, a wooden shed outside of the arch doors. the trailers were stood on end to save space needing all hands on deck no aluminium trailers in those days.
many times an engine would be fired late at night normally followed by bricks pounding off the tin doors from the houses behind!
#48
Posted 22 December 2008 - 11:03
many times an engine would be fired late at night normally followed by bricks pounding off the tin doors from the houses behind!
Yeah, that rings a bell! I think I had to deal with some pretty irate local residents at various locations round the country in my time, those F3 engines took no prisoners when fired up!
One of my most abiding memories was the infamous Andy Sutcliffe taking his F3 out on to the public roads near his parent's house in the depths of Kent, usually in the middle of the night, just to see if the new gearbox/engine/brakes etc. were OK. One minute there was total silence apart from the odd owl hooting, next minute there was an ear-splitting Holbay-engined Lotus 59 tear-arsing around the country lanes in the dark with a wild-haired lunatic at the wheel.
I was always amazed to see him come back (how did he see where he was going in the dark??), and I often wondered if some milkman was lying in the gutter with a heart-attack from some invisible wailing banshee missing him by inches....
#49
Posted 22 December 2008 - 21:27
Originally posted by F3Wrench
One of my most abiding memories was the infamous Andy Sutcliffe taking his F3 out on to the public roads near his parent's house in the depths of Kent, usually in the middle of the night, just to see if the new gearbox/engine/brakes etc. were OK.....
I used to have some severe problems in some of the quieter places of Kent, whilst rallying, where did Andy live? Some of the "anti-rally" protesters even damaged competitors cars, which, at the scrutineering noise check, had to conform to a mandatory 78 db noise level (IIRC).A fullhouse Holbay made a tad more than that
#50
Posted 23 December 2008 - 08:55
Back in the late '60s/early '70s this was about as peaceful as it could get in the Kent countryside until Andy his first sports car, one of many to end up in a hedge somewhere .
We used to meet quite a few rally drivers in the locality, some that took part in international events like Monte Carlo. Where did you go rallying? I seem to remember a few special stages took place in the Headcorn/Tenterden/Smarden area, and there seemed to a plethora of Paddy Hopkirk-style Mini Coopers flying all over the place in those days!
Andy had a habit of taking on anything and anyone on the road in his father's bog-standard 850cc Mini Countryman, and usually beat them... this was the only road car I've ever known to get through a pair of front tyres from brand new to bald-to-the canvas in under 100 miles...