36 replies to this topic

[Roly01]

Hi,

I have seen the version of the 312T3 as in the following pics before.





But I wonder if this is a version that ever raced or if this is grab it together of diffirend versions.
I have only ever seen a similar version without the radiators on front of the rearwheels.
That is the one as raced on the 1979 ROC at Brands.
But this one is particular diffirent with a very short nose and rearwing (I don't think these are "real").

Does anybody know more about the car as on the pics?

Thanks.

[f1steveuk]

I'm no expert on T3s, or Ferraris for that matter, but that looks like a bodywork/wing set up that may have been made for testing, I don't recall that rear decking looking like that at all. If I was at home, I'd look in a book or two, so I'm memory reliant, but it doesn't look "right".

[Formula Once]

Ferrari tested several (bodywork and wing) versions of the T3 between the winters of 77-78 and 78'79, including throughout the 1978 season. This version never raced but looks similar to the car Jody Scheckter tested at Paul Ricard. I have a picture of that somewhere but wouldn't know how to post it.

[pilota]

Originally posted by Roly01
Hi,

I have seen the version of the 312T3 as in the following pics before.

But I wonder if this is a version that ever raced or if this is grab it together of diffirend versions.
I have only ever seen a similar version without the radiators on front of the rearwheels.
That is the one as raced on the 1979 ROC at Brands.
But this one is particular diffirent with a very short nose and rearwing (I don't think these are "real").

Does anybody know more about the car as on the pics?

Thanks.

Ferrari tested numerous 'improvements' to the T3 and this looks to me like an end of 1978 pre-T4 version.
Nathan

[Formula Once]

Correct Nathan, that is the spec Scheckter tested at Ricard.

[pitufo]

Look at this


http://www.marca.com...martinilegends/

is the 312T3 in 2008 year

[Formula Once]

So it is Joaquin Folch's T3.

[MODE]

This is the car seen at Monaco Historic GP this year in the hands of F.Kumschick.

[Formula Once]

Yes, but it is owned by Joaquin.

[Roly01]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the info sofar.
I think it seems to be a car that was build like this after restoration.

[Formula Once]

Well Roly, remember that when Ferrari sold cars in the seventies they usually came in the spec as last raced or tested or where put together with whatever parts were lying around.

I reckon this car (one of five T3's built, numbered 032 to 036) is chassis 032 (winner Long Beach and last used at Monaco 1978).

Since chassis 034, 035 and 036 were all used in the first two GP's of 1979 and ran in rather less modified spec (quite similar to the late 1978 spec) and chassis 033 is the one Villeneuve drove in the 1979 Race of Champions, 032 may very well be the modified car that Scheckter tested at Ricard.

When it was then sold (to Jacky Setton) it probably still featured that final bodywork spec.

[Roly01]

Well Formula Once,

I don't think so, cause that is this car.



And the nose and rearwing are quit diffirent.

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Roly01
Well Formula Once,

I don't think so, cause that is this car.



And the nose and rearwing are quit diffirent.

Hi Roly01,

Please understand: Ferrari sold his F1 cars to anyone willing to buy one or more seasons after it had raced. As Formula Once said: often in the configuration as last raced or tested*). Some were lucky to get spare parts along with the car purchased. Ferrari did not really cherish the 'used' racing parts until 1995 or so. Most body parts ended in the big container behind the Riparto Corse in Maranello. Some parts escaped and have been cherished by collectors, clubs or shops ever since. Some were re-united with their cars years after.
Also in historic racing cars are driven at speed, sometimes shunts do happen. I recall one of the T3's (Mason's?) receiving considerable damage at a Goodwood hill climb. So configurations may vary over the years. What you see today may be a configuration with a mix of body parts as used in 1978-79.

*) For instance: I saw a 312 PB in the Rosso Bianco Collection (now sold) with configuration as last raced at the Ring in 1973.

[Roly01]

Hi Arjan and also Formula once,

I do understand the both of you and I know that restored cars do not always have the configuration as raced at the time.
That exactly was my question abotut the T3 in my first post of this thread.
Which version/configuration was that car.
But probebly it never raced or tested like that.
So I know enough.

But again thanks to anyone who gave a reaction.

[Formula Once]

As to the body parts ending up in the big container behind the Riparto Corse in Maranello, as Arjan mentioned, I know that some very big holes were dug in and around Maranello in those days in which a lot of bodywork and parts were thrown before being set on fire...

[Formula Once]

As for the bodywork on Joaquin's car, this evening I will ask some of the mechanics that worked on the cars in the days. They should know. All I know that while trying to create some sort of ground effect inspite of the flat twelve (following the succes of the Lotus 79), several bodykits for the T3 were produced in the second half of 1978 and into 1979, some of which found there way into the concept of the T4 one way or the other. As for the rearwing, this looks very much like the one I had produced for a T3 a few years ago by the same guy who used to make Ferrari's wings. This is different to the triangle shaped wings normally seen on the T3 and he told me it was tested in several shapes in the winter of 1978 and was supposed to create less drag.

[raceannouncer2003]

Here is a link to a photo of Reutemann in the '78 Long Beach winner:

http://www.racingspo...8-04-02-011.jpg

and a photo of the Folch-R car at Monaco this year...the program said about this car "...Reutemann...part en pole position au Grand Prix de Monaco en 1978...il avait remporté le Grand Prix des Etats Unis à Long Beach." So 032?



Vince H.

[Formula Once]

Spoke to one of the old mechanics and he confirmed the bodywork on Folch's car as being "one of Mauro's many experiments" which was tested but never raced.

[Duc-Man]

Please don't hit me over the head and it also might be a bit off-topic.
Does anybody know anything about the 312T8 (that 8 wheeler thing)?

This is all I found out about it:http://users.telenet...tm/Weird_39.htm

A better picture would already do a lot for me...

Thanx Frank

[Formula Once]

Well Frank, that was just a joke, a manipulated picture. It was reported it ran around the Vatican...

[Formula Once]

I just checked the book I made about the T3 and the rearwing on Folch's car (shape, end plates and support) looks identical to the T3 presented during the press presentation at the end of 1977 (when the car was still on Goodyears by the way).

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Formula Once
I just checked the book I made about the T3

What book did you make and I don't have?

[Formula Once]

It was not for sale, sorry, made for a client for whom I produced a limited edition of 500 copies, some 200 pages I think.

[Formula Once]

By the way, if you go to http://www.barronrac.../pages/service/ and scroll down to May 19 2005 you can download an image of a T3 we ' undressed'. Also you can download a picture of Gilles at Monaco in 1978 (posted on August 19).

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Roly01
Well Formula Once,

I don't think so, cause that is this car.



And the nose and rearwing are quit diffirent.

Alan Henry in "Flat 12":
"Over the winter (78-79) Scheckter was kept busy tesing a version of the T3 fitted with sliding skirts, a sort of halfway house between the original T3 and the yet to be announced T4. Meanwhile Forghieri and his design team were spending a lot of time analysing the results of prototype work carried out in the Pininfarina wind tunnel." Of course Ferrari was looking how to get a proper wing car with the flat 12 mounted. They even thought about designing a new engine!

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003
Here is a link to a photo of Reutemann in the '78 Long Beach winner:

http://www.racingspo...8-04-02-011.jpg

and a photo of the Folch-R car at Monaco this year...the program said about this car "...Reutemann...part en pole position au Grand Prix de Monaco en 1978...il avait remporté le Grand Prix des Etats Unis à Long Beach." So 032?



Vince H.

Vince, the T3 in this photo has the same features as the T3 that came from the Setton collection (032).
No radiator in side, only Naca duct. Same openings along the headrest, also Naca in tip cowling's nose. Only it had no start number and sported Gilles Villeneuve's name.

[Formula Once]

Vileneuve drove 032 on the T3-debut in South-Africa (his engine blew and Reutemann spun on Gilles' oil, crashed into the catch fencing and then his car caught fire...), but Reutemann did Long Beach and Monaco in it, before the car was 'retired'. I can imagine Joaquin opted for the number and name with which it won a race (Long Beach), although John Bosch for example opted for the Villeneuve name and number for 035 (Gilles did two races with that car), despite Reutemann winning in it at the Glen and Scheckter scoring his first points for Ferrari in it at Brazil the following year.

[MODE]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos


Vince, the T3 in this photo has the same features as the T3 that came from the Setton collection (032).
No radiator in side, only Naca duct. Same openings along the headrest, also Naca in tip cowling's nose. Only it had no start number and sported Gilles Villeneuve's name.

As Formula Once already said, this car is 032 chassis.

[Arjan de Roos]

Mode, I know. I just compared his pic with a photo I have of 032 while it resided in the Setton collection around 1988.

[MODE]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Mode, I know. I just compared his pic with a photo I have of 032 while it resided in the Setton collection around 1988.

, sorry, 034 is the car driven by J.Villeneuve at Goodwood (which owner ?), don't remember which one is owned by J.Bosch, what about the other chassis ?

[fines]

Hmm. The T3 makes even a modern day Formula One look attractive... :

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by fines


Hmm. The T3 makes even a modern day Formula One look attractive... :

why?

[MODE]

Hi Peter, just one "off topic" question, did you work on the Arrows A9 during your time at Arrows ? I read the beast is being restored and could be on track again.

[PeterElleray]

Originally posted by MODE
Hi Peter, just one "off topic" question, did you work on the Arrows A9 during your time at Arrows ? I read the beast is being restored and could be on track again.

well if it is i hope its not taken over too many kerbs because the track rod will bend itself around the rear leg of the top wishbone in full suspension bump travel...

perhaps you should put me in touch with the restorer...

peter

[MODE]

I read here to be restored by Geoff Page Racing :

Peter Morley :

"Given there is an advert in Autosport this week I suppose it isn't a secret:
Geoff Page Racing have rebuilt Beatrice THL-1 with Hart engine & THL-2 with Ford engine.
They also say they have rebuilt an Arrows A9 BMW & Benetton B187 Ford and a couple of Toleman Harts.
Turbo engine's they've rebuilt are BMW, Ford, Hart, Honda & Renault.

Apart from the cars they've done there are some other Arrows BMWs, Benetton BMW(s?) an Alfa turbo car and possibly some Renault Tyrrells & Lotuses being rebuilt.

David McLaughin announced a demonstration series for later F1 cars sometime this year - I think theer was some connection with the GP Live event held at Donington where this type of car was demonstrated."


photos here :

http://www.pistonhea...3&t=581003&i=60

[Formula Once]

From memory: 034 is owned by Nick Mason, Bosch has 035.

[Der Pate]

How simple those old F1-cars look in comparison to the actual cars...