48 replies to this topic

[RTH]

Apparently yesterday much of the Wales Rally was cancelled because it was wet, there was some ice and even some mud and they only had on road tyres.
Years ago they stopped driving in the dark cut the event down to 3 half days and confined themselves to repeat runs up and down gravel roads in a restricted localised area in the Cardiff Swansea area.

How pathetic, what an insult to the paying public.

Contrast this with the RAC Round Britain Rally in the 50s 60s 70s and 80s which took 4 and a half days and nights about 2000 miles in snow fog ice mud dark, with minimal servicing and the work load on the driver and co-driver.It was a real test of endurance and quality of the cars being used.
It also had 3 million spectators right across the country and wall to wall television radio and newspaper coverage on a live hourly basis from start to finish and was a key national sports event which gripped the nation at this time of year.

The people running world rallying now and the only major rally in Britain in particular should be deeply ashamed of themselves and how they have destroyed the real values of Rallying.

How have people like David Richards allowed rallying to become so devalued and become a public laughing stock.

Maybe next year you could run it indoors ?

I understand it was a bit nippy outside the hotel rooms as well.


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/72328

[Gav Astill]

I think that you're leaning against an open door with this one!

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Gav Astill
I think that you're leaning against an open door with this one!

Also you are hardly likely to generate a discussion unless you count some "Hear, hear"s from the other residents of TNF.

[RTH]

Well that would be good. A bit of public opinion voiced against what has been done to the detriment of motor sport in general, in the feint hope that it might penetrate the thick skulls of those people, that sadly our sport has fallen in to.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by RTH
Well that would be good. A bit of public opinion voiced against what has been done to the detriment of motor sport in general, in the feint hope that it might penetrate the thick skulls of those people, that sadly our sport has fallen in to.

Richard, the problem at the moment is that the "people ... our sport has fallen into" are thick skulled and would dismiss any critique as being from a minority. What it needs is a massive drop-off in spectator numbers, that would hit them where it hurts - the wallet!

As long as people are willing to settle for third best then that is what they will get!

[jcbc3]

Don't worry too much now. 'Cause it'll only get worse from here on in............... FWD 2-litre non-turbocharged cars are on the cards.

Funny that Richards is the target here, considering he is an old time competitor himself.

[edit]
Forgot to add I agree 112% with the opening post.
[/edit]

[RTH]

Sadly Steve I know you are right. I can only think its a very young generation that has no knowledge of just how good rallying could be .

However the organisers have shot themselves in the foot because this event passes now without the mass news media taking a blind bit of notice and that is because it is now so poor and bland and behind closed doors in a tiny corridor in Wales.

[RTH]

Originally posted by jcbc3


Funny that Richards is the target here, considering he is an old time competitor himself.

[edit]
Forgot to add I agree 112% with the opening post.[/edit]

Well yes it is because of that.......he of all people does know better, yet allows it all to happen and to the detriment of all their sponsors.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by RTH
Sadly Steve I know you are right. I can only think its a very young generation that has no knowledge of just how good rallying could be .

However the organisers have shot themselves in the foot because this event passes now without the mass news media taking a blind bit of notice and that is because it is now so poor and bland and behind closed doors in a tiny corridor in Wales.

The only TV coverage is on DAVE!

As for the current generation I would agree. When I went to Rally Ireland last year I was amazed at the number of youngsters there were spectating. In my group there were 4 of us who all started watching, competing or organising rallies in the 1970s. We bemoaned the state of rallying in general but did think Rally Ireland was a cut above the Welsh farce (2 of our number run radio checkpoints in Wales). For 2009 I notice that Rally Ireland is following the Welsh example with a lot less travelling by the competitors with the majority of the stages on the West coast - I doubt I'll be going.

As for a suitable protest maybe letters to Motorsport News and Autosport as a starter? Then how about organising a boycott for 2009?

[JtP1]

Originally posted by Stephen W


The only TV coverage is on DAVE!

As for the current generation I would agree. When I went to Rally Ireland last year I was amazed at the number of youngsters there were spectating. In my group there were 4 of us who all started watching, competing or organising rallies in the 1970s. We bemoaned the state of rallying in general but did think Rally Ireland was a cut above the Welsh farce (2 of our number run radio checkpoints in Wales). For 2009 I notice that Rally Ireland is following the Welsh example with a lot less travelling by the competitors with the majority of the stages on the West coast - I doubt I'll be going.

As for a suitable protest maybe letters to Motorsport News and Autosport as a starter? Then how about organising a boycott for 2009?

I have to totally agree. a few years ago, Ch4 had the rights to WRC ,gave lots of coverage and had good viewing figures. So ITV bought it and then proceeded not to broadcast it in any logical or audience friendly way, then appear to have dumped it.

As for writing to Motorsport News or Autosport for a boycott. They don't even react to their own falling distribution, so why would they bother about other events lack of customers?

[PhilG]

Where to start on this one.........

Ok, move the rally to the winter, fine with that, i was getting the buzz that it'd be like days gone by, with stages in the dark and stuff.
Byt they then cancel stages cos its ICY, FFS , ice in a forest in winter, who'd a thought it, i've been scraping my car off for weeks in the morning, its hardly a surprise is it. Its like moving Sweden to June and calling it off cos there's no snow.

Over the last 10 years of first hand experience in WRC & F1, its impossible to put into words just how much the FIA have screwed up motorsport through inept decision making. In F1, it was swapping from V10 to V8 to save money......well pardon me for asking but isn't running what you already have the cheapest way to save money.
In WRC we had the parts pairing fiasco, where major parts had to be used for two events, which was great, up to the point where logistically you had to buy more in the first place to even get it to work, and carry more stock.

And now with big service parks, miles from the action, actually going to the event is a waste of time too, cars gone for 12 hours, mechanics bored to death polishing their tools.

I think the WRC is all but lost now, in the UK, the lack of any top level talent is hurting the following massively, and the loss of the legends that were Burns & McCrae cannot be ignored, everyone knew who they were, i doubt 98% of the UK could even name a currrent UK driver.

If the new rules go to FWD, then thats it, its finished, JWRC is about as much fun as watching paint dry IMHO, and as much as it needs to exist as a feeder series, it cant be anything other than that.

4WD 2 litre turbo's with a cost ceiling no fancy electronic diffs, and away you go.

AND PROPER RALLIES.

[RS2000]

It's been suggested that the DVD of Rally GB 2008 should reflect the classic film of the 1971 RAC Rally in its title and, instead of being called "From Harrogate it Started", it should be titled "From Swansea it was Cancelled".

The Clerk of the Course of the current event, Fred Gallagher, is a member here, so I would first like to hear direct what exactly happened. No one is more nostalgic about the "old" RACs than me, having competed/finished in 5 and been involved in most of the others over about 15 years as service crew etc.

A few points. The route this year went back to central Wales for the first time in ages in direct response to lobbying for it to do so. The Hafren cancellation is reported to be at the "request" of the FIA Safety man. It's a very brave (ie.foolhardy) C of C who ignores such a "request". Most overseas competitors bitched about the UK Forestry Commission ban on studded tyres as far back as the 60s and ever since. I don't even know the current Rally GB regulations regarding chains but that was the only option back in the day and few used it. (BMC used dog collars once) The road sections were usually more of a problem than the stages - ice/polished snow is the stopper, not snow itself. The slack road timing in the classic era (not the "old days" because some then was bl**dy tight) covered up several cases of the rally being effectively halted by the weather. What happened on the 1993(?) RAC was an utter disgrace, as bad as "L'Affaire Burzet" on the 1973 Monte Carlo Rally when most private entrants were excluded after a blockage. I'm sure 1971 was a close-run thing (it could have been "From Harrogate it Started and Finshed Quite Soon After").
I don't recall Hafren as presenting too many problems in the past. Myherin, as I understand it, was going to use the high, newish roads known as "Pike's Peak". I doubt any car could have got up there on ice without studs. Having suffered from exposure near there in rain and wind at the end of June this year on a BHRC round, I'll conclude I'm too old to be there at the moment...
No excuses of course. The culprit is the nonsense of the modern tight event schedule, all supposedly for TV but which is then not shown on UK terrestial TV. Expensive "Control" tyres without the recognition that a summer gravel tyre is not great on ice (although reality is nothing without studs is much better than a pure slick). I didn't have any problems on the RAC on the Colway Remoulds Fred Henderson was selling me at £16 per tyre...

[Option1]

Wouldn't be too quick to slam David Richards for this FIAsco: http://www.crash.net...or_gb_mess.html

"It's been an extremely frustrating day. For some time now, after the introduction of the control tyre, we have said that there should be an emergency tyre available in the event of extreme conditions," he explained.

"When conditions are like today, it should be at the discretion of the clerk-of-the-course to use them. We should not find ourselves in a situation where we are not able to deliver to spectators, who have had an even more frustrating day than us.

"One of my guys drove down from Warwickshire at 6am today and hasn't seen a rally car in action. How can we turn round to the general public and say that it was too slippery for the best drivers in the world to perform? It makes a mockery of the whole sport.

"We've repeatedly spoken to the FIA about this and we've been told it's too complicated to sort out. We don't accept this."

But it is ludicrous that rallying can't proceed because it's a little bit slippy.

Neil

[jcbc3]

The sad thing is that the situation was so utterly predictable, and STILL it wasn't taken care off before the event started.

[zakeriath]

Its not only "us" who are complaining, its also the drivers. I am on a 3 hour break and will be back to marshal parc ferme later tonight. Some of the drivers requested the cut tyre yesterday so that they could try and compete, but were flatly refused. Most of the driver chit chat this morning was again about not being able to run, yesterday they drove over 300 Km with only about 2.5 km of rallying.

Its also sad the most of the spectators were there to see Rossi and basically ignored Loeb, Hirovnen, Solberg etc.

[RTH]

If the new plan is to go to two wheel drive , then that should be rear wheel drive with all the fabulous spectacle of power sliding that goes with it .
The Escorts etc never really proceeded in a staight line the tail swung from one side to the other on all surfaces just look at some old footage of Roger Clark , Timo Makkinen and indeed all the similar cars of that era of the late 60s & 70s wonderful thrilling stuff the cars danced around with only 200 or so BHP as you watched in awe of the skill of those drivers threading cars through the trees !

Now all the current WRC cars have 4 wheel drive ......no big deal to take off the front driveshafts, take off the aerofoils and demand a minimum ground clearance then a normally aspirated 2 litre with 250 BHP rear wheel drive car with a lot less grip .....we know only too well, that would make great viewing.

Why have service areas at all ?

I recently watched some 1970 world cup rally footage with Mick Jones and Stuart Turner issuing instructions to the driver and co-driver of a factory MK 1 Escort through a chain link fence step by step on how to change the dampers on their car.......including which way to turn the nuts !! Brilliant stuff, about time we got back to that too !

http://uk.youtube.co...feature=related

Blimey in those days even a Marina looked spectacular !!

[mgtd]

I was thinking of posting something in the same vein.
When I look back through my "frost-tinted specatacles" of the late 60's/early 70's I can only wonder at today's namby-pambies!! - and I was only a spectator.
I was half way through my studies at Manchester University at the time and the motor-club,MASSAC,(Manchester & Salford Students' Automobile Club) from memory,usually organised trips to spectate ,whether it was Wales,or the far North Yorks stages.Fantastic fun,nearly always v.cold,and sometimes snowing for extra effect!
I offer you a few dodgy images of the,I think,Greystoke Stage in 1971ish taken by yours truly on his trusty Zenit B,all of £25 worth at the time-so no flashy auto-focus or,God forbid,colour film.I leave someone to identify the cars/drivers.

MgTd

[RTH]

Now that;s a bit more like it !!


And you don't need monster horsepower for exciting rallying

http://uk.youtube.co...feature=related

[Kpy]

Originally posted by mgtd
[B]I leave someone to identify the cars/drivers.

MgTd

1971 RAC:

1 is Harry Källström - Lancia Fulvia 1.6 Coupé HF
2 is eventual winner Stig Blomqvist - Saab 96
3 is Björn Waldergård - Porsche 911 S
5 is Edgar Herrmann - Porsche 911 S
13 is Jean-Luc Thérier - Alpine-Renault A110 1600

[Mark A]

1993 was the last RAC Rally I ever went to watch in person. Kielder and snow

I really miss the proper modern event as opposed to the current national B type event.

1993 RAC RALLY

[mgtd]

Thanks Kpy for the details,I was just too lazy to do my own research.Anyway,I think my feet are still frozen from a day in Yorkshire 37 years ago,Elf 'n Safety would have checked my socks and wellies for correct spec these days!

MgTd

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Kpy

1971 RAC:
1 is Harry Källström - Lancia Fulvia 1.6 Coupé HF
2 is eventual winner Stig Blomqvist - Saab 96
3 is Björn Waldergård - Porsche 911 S
5 is Edgar Herrmann - Porsche 911 S
13 is Jean-Luc Thérier - Alpine-Renault A110 1600

Misprint for No5 - 240Z
Look at the grip/traction of the Alpine on the snow (it was leading at one point, co-driven by Jean Todt, in cord trousers and a pullover)

[Tony Matthews]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RTH
[B]If the new plan is to go to two wheel drive , then that should be rear wheel drive with all the fabulous spectacle of power sliding that goes with it .
The Escorts etc never really proceeded in a staight line the tail swung from one side to the other on all surfaces just look at some old footage of Roger Clark , Timo Makkinen and indeed all the similar cars of that era of the late 60s & 70s wonderful thrilling stuff the cars danced around with only 200 or so BHP as you watched in awe of the skill of those drivers threading cars through the trees !

Now all the current WRC cars have 4 wheel drive ......no big deal to take off the front driveshafts, take off the aerofoils and demand a minimum ground clearance then a normally aspirated 2 litre with 250 BHP rear wheel drive car with a lot less grip .....we know only too well, that would make great viewing.

Why have service areas at all ?

I recently watched some 1970 world cup rally footage with Mick Jones and Stuart Turner issuing instructions to the driver and co-driver of a factory MK 1 Escort through a chain link fence step by step on how to change the dampers on their car.......including which way to turn the nuts !! Brilliant stuff, about time we got back to that too !

I agree with everything you have said, Richard, but this is typical of not just rallying, not just motor sport, but life in general! The lunatics are running the asylum. Bitter and twisted? Me?

The last time I saw a special stage was years ago, when we used to get proper snow, with one KPY! (Hello and how are you?) I certainly have no desire to drive hundreds of miles to see nothing happening in poor weather, and that's not down to advanced years.[B]

[RTH]

We fortunately we still have film of RAC rallies from 25 years ago when William Woolard used to present the nightly Rally Round up from each days action around the country on BBC2 anyone remember that ?

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by RTH
We fortunately we still have film of RAC rallies from 25 years ago when William Woolard used to present the nightly Rally Round up from each days action around the country on BBC2 anyone remember that ?

Ah, the old days BC (before Clarkson) were not all bad!

[OfficeLinebacker]

If nothing else, this debacle has given some members reason to post some great videos and myself an excuse to watch said videos, so something good's come of it!

[simonlewisbooks]

Good grief, the "Rally GB/RAC/Wales... whateveritscallednow" is actually on(or not, as the case may be) this weekend?
I live only about 50 miles away from where it's running(or not etc etc) ....I genuinely didn't even know. And I used to compete in rallying myself... I haven't heard a single word about it until I saw this thread.
How much lower can the profile of a once major event sink???? This was, for many years, the biggest spectator event in Britain for gawd' sake....

[RTH]

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
If nothing else, this debacle has given some members reason to post some great videos and myself an excuse to watch said videos, so something good's come of it!

Well,here's a bit more then .

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=71NbLi5KHRA

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=t7dYXzk2fwY

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=mtGIvLnzV50

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=n9xnJDii-Ng

http://uk.youtube.co...Vb7ztJ42Jo&NR=1

There are no acceptable excuses for what has happened to this event over the last few years.

This Rally , the proper RAC Round Britain has been the showcase , premiere rallying event in this country for whatever it is 60 years +. They cannot pretend they have no experience or that it was the 'wrong kind of ice or mud ' ( perhaps their talents would be better employed working in the PR dept of British Railways )

Lame excuses are just not going to do anymore.

Perhaps we should be told who the guilty men are in the ruination of this event , not just this year but over many years and exactly what their motivation has been in its destruction.

More to the point just what, if anything, is going to be done in the future ?

[Kpy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RS2000


Misprint for No5 - 240Z [/QUOTE]

Yup sorry, finger trouble, tried to create a neat Word document to cut and paste. Failed

[QUOTE]Look at the grip/traction of the Alpine on the snow (it was leading at one point, co-driven by Jean Todt, in cord trousers and a pullover) [/QUOTE]
Great car, built 20 miles up the road from here. I drove past J-L T's old garage while fetching the bread this morning.

Nice picture of the car in RAC 1971 snow HERE

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony Matthews
[QUOTE]

I agree with everything you have said, Richard, but this is typical of not just rallying, not just motor sport, but life in general! The lunatics are running the asylum. Bitter and twisted? Me?

The last time I saw a special stage was years ago, when we used to get proper snow, with one KPY! (Hello and how are you?) I certainly have no desire to drive hundreds of miles to see nothing happening in poor weather, and that's not down to advanced years. [/QUOTE]

Hello Tony, it's really nice to see you here. I'll drop you a PM. I'd be happy to sit next to you driving hundreds of miles to see [b]something; but you're right everything has changed.

The great days of rallying have passed; the Liége-Sofia-Liège, Alpine and Tulip rallies are gone, along with the Welsh, the Scottish and the Gulf (the oil company, not the middle east). Circumstances and legislation have changed and we can't bring those days back any more than we can have the Targa Florio, or the Mille Miglia.
In racing we have adapted the circuits to suit the cars, rather than vice versa. So at Le Mans for example not a single corner (with the possible exception of Arnage) remotely resembles its ancestor on the circuit I first saw in 1967.
I'm just glad that I was around to see what I did see and regret that I didn't make the extra effort to spectate at Montjuic, Rouen, or Clermont-Ferrand.
For all that I wouldn't want to be condemned to living in 1970s Britain.

[zakeriath]

Dont worry about complaining too much, we wont have the event in 2010 anyway. This year was one of the closest ever and one of the most challenging according to the drivers that I spoke to.

[sterling49]

I have not had time to read through the entire thread yet, but agree totally with Richard's opening post, what a farce for our round of the WRC, I bet Erik Carlsson laughs and Roger Clark (bless him) turns in his grave at the state of affairs now.

[Allan Lupton]

As mentioned in the UK we can only see rallying on "Dave" (unless we pay extra).
Last night they showed the rally for a nominal hour, less adverts, and had to pad it out with a long sequence about Loeb trying a F1 car. I missed the first part, and the bit I saw was dedicated to the "battle" for the lead on the two stages (run twice) that made up the last day.
Since "Dave" fills in between rallies with compilations of crashes, it is not hard to see which of their shareholders they are taking instructions from. . . .

[Derwent Motorsport]

I was a stage commander and regional official for some 25 years when the rally went around the UK, running stages in Cumbria and Kershope. In the good old days, the conditions in the Lakes and Kielder stages could be icy, snowy, foggy and bereyl passibly but the only time I can remember a stage bening cancelled was Greystoke in 1982 due to there being too many spectators - not a problem they have now!

The rot set in the last time the event came north and I was in charge of the Carlisle HQ. The event got delayed in the afternoon and the final stage of the day, in Kershope, was cancelled as it would run after the TV deadline of about 7 pm. The thousands of spectators in the stage were not happy and complained to the marshals, some of whom were quite frightened and passed on the "secret" HQ number and thus we started getting all sorts of angry fans asking "How do we get our money back?" and a fiar bit of abuse. We had no real information to help us or them and my team were not happy about the calls etc.
Also the attitude of the media folk and team people in HQ left a lot to be desired. They showed little respect to the volunteer teams who were manning the desks and controls for some 36 hours. Most of the medial guys reported the event from the bar!

After that both myself and my club said enough was enough and told the organisers we did not want to be treated in that way again and would not help in the future. As it happened after that it became a littlee vent in south Wales!

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
I was a stage commander and regional official for some 25 years when the rally went around the UK, running stages in Cumbria and Kershope. In the good old days, the conditions in the Lakes and Kielder stages could be icy, snowy, foggy and bereyl passibly but the only time I can remember a stage bening cancelled was Greystoke in 1982 due to there being too many spectators - not a problem they have now!

I was in Greystoke that day. The problem was too many people turned up and the majority didn't want to walk that far so the problems were at both ends of the stage. Where I was the spectators were pretty thin on the ground and it was only when we were trudging back to the car that we realised how many people had been there!

On Dave last night it was obvious that the "control tyre" was a complete dud! Even on some of the better stages the cars were slithering all over the place.

:

[RS2000]

Now you've really got me worried.
I have absolutely no recollection of Greystoke in 1982 but the official results show it ran. My only excuse is that I was driving, not co-driving, so to a large extent just obeying instructions, not giving them!
Just a bit earlier I had told my co-driver he was wrong in directing us left over a bridge before Castle O'er (the only navigational error he made all rally: shame my driving wasn't so accurate...) because I knew the spot from previous years. After Twiglees, I recall which entrance to Ae was then used but next memory is of snow on Comb and Wythop, after Greystoke (the only snow in 82) and catching the car ahead on the 3.5 miles or so of the stage (Comb?) - on worn Dunlop M&S, which were no more suited to those condtions than anything being used last week. I remember going off early in the long Grisedale and then puncturing, which we had to stop and change in view of the remaining stage distance still to run.
Greystoke was cancelled in 1976, beacuse it was the only stage in the region for which information had been made available to the public, so half the world turned up. The trees then in Greystoke had low branches and people stood in front of the tree line to see, with no real ditch protecting them from the road.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Allan Lupton
As mentioned in the UK we can only see rallying on "Dave" (unless we pay extra).
Last night they showed the rally for a nominal hour, less adverts, and had to pad it out with a long sequence about Loeb trying a F1 car. I missed the first part, and the bit I saw was dedicated to the "battle" for the lead on the two stages (run twice) that made up the last day.
Since "Dave" fills in between rallies with compilations of crashes, it is not hard to see which of their shareholders they are taking instructions from. . . .

I saw that as well Allan, it was desperately dull and the backdrop seemed not to change at all.

Dave make plenty of effort but they have so little to work with. Not remotely in the same league as the BBC coverage 20 years ago.

[Derwent Motorsport]

Well I might have got the date wrong. It certainly can't habe been after 82 as the forest was sold off by the government and only the last few years since Malcolm Wilson bought it has it been rallied again.

Greystoke was very near the M6 and easy to get to. The spectator situation was solved by having spectator stage at Lowther Park, this took the casual spectators away from the Lakes forests.

Interestingly friends in the Keswick area often ask "Do they not have the RAC Rally anymore?" Which is perhaps very telling as to the current WRC status.

[P. Dron]

Roger Clark said that it was easy to tell when you'd lost it in a rally Escort. "That's when you were looking through the back window."

I agree with most of the points made earlier in this thread, but while pouring abuse on the organizers of modern rallying, let us not denigrate the top drivers, especially Loeb, who would have been right at the top in any era of rallying. And Valentino Rossi seems to have a bit of the right stuff too.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
Well I might have got the date wrong. It certainly can't habe been after 82 as the forest was sold off by the government and only the last few years since Malcolm Wilson bought it has it been rallied again.

Greystoke was very near the M6 and easy to get to. The spectator situation was solved by having spectator stage at Lowther Park, this took the casual spectators away from the Lakes forests.

Interestingly friends in the Keswick area often ask "Do they not have the RAC Rally anymore?" Which is perhaps very telling as to the current WRC status.

I went to Greystoke several times (1975, 1980 & 1984) as well on the occasion that it was cancelled! I thought it was 1982 as well although it may have been '81?

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Stephen W
I went to Greystoke several times (1975, 1980 & 1984)

If that was on the RAC Rally in 84, crowds shouldn't have been too much of a problem as it didn't use Greystoke!
It went from Grisedale to Lowther, then Carlisle TC and Kershope. Had 2 front punctures on the longer (22mile?) Grisedale that year at 9 and 11 miles so had to change both. Wet racers at Ambleside service as Lowther was listed as mostly tarmac. It was sea of mud. Racers were good on the road section between though, allowing driving round the outside of the massive spectator convoy on most bends.

[Derwent Motorsport]

I think Stephen that you can't have gone to Greystoke in 84 as it had been sold to a Swiss Insurance firm by then.

[Derwent Motorsport]

Greystoke was cancelled in 1976 due to the excess of spectators. I've checked with one of the stage officials. The stage was manned by Vickers (Barrow) MC and Furness DMC who provided 130 and 60 marshals respectively. I wonder how many stages this year had that many marshals?

This is a quote from VBMC's Spotlight magazine:
The Decenber Spotlight reported: "we estimated that there were 15,000 spectators in the forest and despite a Range Rover equipped with a loudspeaker passing through the stage before hand to appeal to spectators, after only 40 cars had passed through, the stage had to be held up again for a further appeal to be made. But the situation got worse and after only another 20 cars the stage was cancelled."

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
Greystoke was cancelled in 1976 due to the excess of spectators.

Yes, as I said in post No35, and it was compounded by the then nature of the stage not just the sheer numbers of people. We were sent through it non-competitively. I can't remember where we were running "on the road" then but it would have been outside the first 60 cars.

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by Kpy

For all that I wouldn't want to be condemned to living in 1970s Britain. [/B]

It was great! I was on a good salary and for the first time could afford Escort rally cars, as well as my road car.

But of course it's government and police, controlled by traffic and population density, that have killed rallying. I remember the first legislation about rallying when 'issues' had come to a head in the 1960s so that the RAC alone were deemed not to be adequately controlling it. So, under Ernie Marples I think, parliament got involved for the first time and an Act was produced. Fortunately giving the controlling Agency back to the RAC. In those days we did have the old boy network and friends in high places. And lobbying by the motor industry was a significant influence in preventing an absolute ban. We have no motor industry left and no one to lobby any more.

Very sad. Must dig out my old videos of Henri Toivonen in Wykeham...

Or maybe I should go into the garage and try to do something about the broken ignition on my Alpine. But it's cold, and I don't like driving it any more... Too vulnerable in that little fibreglass body...

[RTH]

Originally posted by BDM977B




Or maybe I should go into the garage and try to do something about the broken ignition on my Alpine. But it's cold, and I don't like driving it any more... Too vulnerable in that little fibreglass body...

Sounds interesting ?

[BDM977B]

Ashamed to say I haven't used it for 3 years now. After the hydraulic brake light switch failed, so I couldn't get it MOT'd without a fair amount of tedious work, I used to turn the engine over and run it around the drive every so often. But the transistorised ignition seems to have ceased operation, dead as a dodo... Possibly not helped by a bit of a problem with a battery charger last year.
All very weak excuses, but I prefer an auto Lexus these days!.

Here it is:

[RTH]

Looks nice.

[Nick Barltrop]

Is that you, Mr L ? I'm sure the brake lights worked fine when I last drove your Alpine...

[BDM977B]

Originally posted by Nick Barltrop
Is that you, Mr L ? I'm sure the brake lights worked fine when I last drove your Alpine...

Hi Nick, hope you are well! They used to be fine and my local garage has always been very friendly towards it at MoT time, but I thought this would be going a bit far since it didn't leave much else for them to test!. The problem, well, laziness is really the problem. The hassle is that with the 'Gros Friens' dual master cylinder, you can't get the switch out without removing the master cylinder completely, which means taking off all the unions and then trying to get the brakes bled again after you've put it back together, which is always a right pain. I just don't 'do' lying under cars any more, restoring and running the Alpine was quite enough...

When I'm gone, it will be rediscovered under inches of dust when the house is demolished. Of course if I last long enough, we will all be driving electrically, so it will be a museum piece only!