23 replies to this topic

[Tim Murray]

I read the press release for the 2009 Festival of Speed, as posted in the relevant thread by Alan Cox:

The Earl of March has today (Wednesday 10 December) confirmed the theme of the 2009 Goodwood Festival of Speed as 'True Grit - Epic Feats of Endurance.' The theme celebrates the drive and determination of motor racing's heroes, who overcame huge physical, mental and mechanical barriers in their quest for glory. From Jackie Stewart's enduring victory at the 1968 German Grand Prix, despite his broken wrist …

I then googled on 'Jackie Stewart +broken wrist', and most of the first few pages of results seem to be about his "amazing German GP victory achieved despite driving with a broken wrist".

Why is there so much fuss about his damaged wrist with regard to this one particular race? It was of course one of his greatest drives, but he had sustained the wrist injury at the end of April, resumed racing in early June at Spa and won at Zandvoort. The German race was over three months after his accident. I should have thought that the wrist would have been pretty well mended by then (although he was still using the plastic wrist support).

Am I being unfair to him, or is this another case of the legend superseding the facts?

[Vitesse2]

Yes, I was a bit confused by that too, Tim. It was indeed one of Jackie's greatest races and must have laid a few of the ghosts from Spa in '66. To win by 4 minutes at the Ring was something special, but the man behind him was Graham Hill, who wouldn't have been moved to take unnecessary risks to catch him, given his vast experience. In fact, I'm sure Graham was probably more concerned with both finishing and keeping Jochen behind him.

Graham had had four "pointless" races after his excellent (2nd, 1st, 1st) start to the season and could probably envisage a WDC slipping away if he hadn't finished in Germany.

Points standings after Germany:

1 Hill 30
2 Stewart 26
3 Hulme 15

Six points for a safe second and a four point lead in the championship was a far better option than parking it in the ditch at Pflanzgarten ....

[RS2000]

After the 68 British GP, I was standing in the grass field next to Brands that was used as an airstrip as those with aircraft there turned up to depart (try anything similar today at a GP...). When JYS appeared, he had his wrist in a plastic splint of some sort and looked in bad shape. NGH turned towards him and exclaimed: "how the hell are you, you poor b*gger?". I didn't catch the response but it was something along the lines of an indignant "how do you think I am?"
So it was no minor matter at that time and his true condition was known to his competitors.

[RStock]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
In fact, I'm sure Graham was probably more concerned with both finishing and keeping Jochen behind him.

Graham had had four "pointless" races after his excellent (2nd, 1st, 1st) start to the season and could probably envisage a WDC slipping away if he hadn't finished in Germany.

Wasn't Graham so far ahead of Jochen that Graham at one point spun , got out , pushed his car back on track , and resumed in front of Jochen ? Seems I remember reading that once .

I , myself , would never take lightly a man winning at Nurburgring , for one thing , nor in the rain , and with a wrist cast on . And he did start in the 6th slot , and had to make passes to get in front .

But , I'm partial to Sir Jackie , so perhaps I'm biased .

[doc knutsen]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
I read the press release for the 2009 Festival of Speed, as posted in the relevant thread by Alan Cox:


I then googled on 'Jackie Stewart +broken wrist', and most of the first few pages of results seem to be about his "amazing German GP victory achieved despite driving with a broken wrist".

Why is there so much fuss about his damaged wrist with regard to this one particular race? It was of course one of his greatest drives, but he had sustained the wrist injury at the end of April, resumed racing in early June at Spa and won at Zandvoort. The German race was over three months after his accident. I should have thought that the wrist would have been pretty well mended by then (although he was still using the plastic wrist support).

Am I being unfair to him, or is this another case of the legend superseding the facts?

If it was a scaphoid fracture, and the length of immobilisation using a plastic wrist support suggests that is indeed what it was, the recovery is long and painful, usually meaning immobilisation for 12 weeks or more. And at the end of that, of course, the arm will have none of its usual strength, and require a long period of physiotherapy
before it is back to normal. At three months, I would expect his wrist to be painful in use, and nowhere near its muscular strength prior to the accident.
Compare that with the common radius fracture in which the bone has usually set within six weeks, and training
to regain strength will be well under way.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by REDARMYSOJA


Wasn't Graham so far ahead of Jochen that Graham at one point spun , got out , pushed his car back on track , and resumed in front of Jochen ? Seems I remember reading that once .

Monaco '65?

[Doug Nye]

JYS's wrist injury was a broken scaphoid, as Doc surmises, and it was a considerable problem for him. So much so, that if the German GP had been run on a dry road he doubted he would have done very well at all, since the Matra's steering would have been so much heavier than it proved to be in the wet. He for one was both helped and hindered by the weather conditions that day. Still a stunning performance, whichever way one slices it.

DCN

[stevewf1]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Monaco '65?

According to Hill's book "Life at the Limit", he spun after hitting a "river" in the road at the '68 German GP. Amon had been close behind, but spun off a few moments earlier. Hill had to get out of the car and push-start it. After he got going he then had Rindt right behind him to the end - another couple of laps.

[RStock]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Monaco '65?

I think he just missed a turn and had to reroute via the runoff area . But I don't remember much about that one other than GH won , and Paul Hawkins went into the drink .

[stevewf1]

Originally posted by REDARMYSOJA
I think he just missed a turn and had to reroute via the runoff area . But I don't remember much about that one other than GH won , and Paul Hawkins went into the drink .

Hill and a back-marker arrived at the chicane at the same time and he had to up the escape road. He had to get out of the car and push it backwards onto the track.

[JtP1]

Originally posted by REDARMYSOJA


I think he just missed a turn and had to reroute via the runoff area . But I don't remember much about that one other than GH won , and Paul Hawkins went into the drink .

Hill came out of the tunnel and found someone going slowly back to the pits. At that time the chicane was much closer to the tunnel exit than now. The only place to go was up the escape road, but unlike now, there was no exit road. So he got out the car and pushed it back wards onto the track. His victory was aided by Brabham getting the 32 valve Climax for the race, running out of oil and retiring.

I am trying to remember if Clark repeated the exploit in 66 or 67 when he was delayed and had to work his way back up the field, only to retire from 3rd when the rear upright broke.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by JtP1


Hill came out of the tunnel and found someone* going slowly back to the pits. At that time the chicane was much closer to the tunnel exit than now. The only place to go was up the escape road, but unlike now, there was no exit road. So he got out the car and pushed it back wards onto the track. His victory was aided by Brabham getting the 32 valve Climax for the race, running out of oil and retiring.

I am trying to remember if Clark repeated the exploit in 66 or 67 when he was delayed and had to work his way back up the field, only to retire from 3rd when the rear upright broke.

*Bob Anderson.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by doc knutsen
If it was a scaphoid fracture, and the length of immobilisation using a plastic wrist support suggests that is indeed what it was, the recovery is long and painful, usually meaning immobilisation for 12 weeks or more. And at the end of that, of course, the arm will have none of its usual strength, and require a long period of physiotherapy before it is back to normal. At three months, I would expect his wrist to be painful in use, and nowhere near its muscular strength prior to the accident.
Compare that with the common radius fracture in which the bone has usually set within six weeks, and training to regain strength will be well under way.

Originally posted by Doug Nye
JYS's wrist injury was a broken scaphoid, as Doc surmises....

Having had the rare distinction of suffering both types of fractures to the same wrist no less, the scaphoid fracture took forever to mend compared to the radius fracture (the only injury I ever got from being shot down three times in my Southeast Asian Adventure, caused when my arm smacked into something when we crunched in) which took almost no time to heal. Indeed, within a week or two I was back at it, simply reverting to being a southpaw for a bit. The scaphoid fracture was my worse soccer injury, suffered as a referee no less. I was following the play, slipped on bad spot on the field, wrist took the fall, never took my eyes off the play, even called the foul on the midfielder who decided to check out the texture of the defender's jersey by using his fingers to do so, and did the rest of the match with a wrist which felt "funny." That is, until the pain hit not long after the match was over while I was assessing the referees in the following match.

How Stewart managed to drive as well as he did with the wrist injury, judging by what I went through, is an amazing feat. I was having problems with my wrist well past 12 weeks, not getting the last cast off until about the 16-week point, with months upon months of physiotherapy following that.

When some snarl about wee Jackie and his time on the track, I always think of what he did while driving with a truly damaged wrist....

[JtP1]

I am doing this from memory, so those with beter bresources can fill in the detail.

The scafoid is a small bone in the wrist near the bottom of the thumb and is very painful when broken. It is actually remarkably easily broken. I knew a girl who broke hers in a bump at under 5mph in a mini.
I seem to remember that it was Zandvoort that Stewart raced at with his broken wrist only because it was wet. As pointed out, Nurburgring was 3 months after Pau and the bone must have been well healed by then

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by JtP1
As pointed out, Nurburgring was 3 months after Pau and the bone must have been well healed by then

You might think so but I bet a doctor would not include driving an F1 car in the remedial programme. I suspect JYS must have put the healing process back by several months. He certainly looked worn out every time he got out of the car during the period he was wearing the support.

I'm with several other posters who think his efforts under the circumstances were fantastic.

[Doug Nye]

Pau has got nothing to do with it (JtP1). From memory JYS's injury was suffered at Jarama. Back in 1977 (ish) I broke my right scaphoid and burst the tendon sheath in my right fore-arm. That's how many years ago? I still have a very suspect right wrist and when tweaked it hurts like hell and I have very limited grasp in my hand. Before anyone points out that I have very limited grasp (of reality) in any case, and that they're not surprised I have wrist-trouble (! ) - I would emphasise that the problem began - not as heroically as Don's - with a seized wheel-nut, my leaning as hard as I could on the wheel-brace, and then the nut suddenly giving way, twisting my wrist instantaneously through about 140 degrees.

Trust me - it makes your eyes water...for one hell of a long time.

DCN

[Graham Gauld]

John Coombs told me how Jackie came to break his wrist. Apparently when Jackie was not driiving or testing in Formula 1 he would occasionally help Coombs out when they were testing the Elf Matra F2 car and it was on such an occasion that it happened. Jackie had given some interesting comments on the handling of the car but had run out of ideas so John had the tyre pressures put up from 16 to 22 lbs and Stewart immediately went a second or so quicker. However about four laps into this test he clipped a wheel and got his wrist caught in the steering wheel. As Coombs remarked about the tyre pressures " Sometimes these old fashioned ideas do work"

[Tim Murray]

Thanks for all the replies to my initial post. I now fully accept that it takes a lot longer for a broken scaphoid to heal than I realised. The thing that chiefly puzzles me, though, was why it seems that only the German GP win has gone down in (internet) history as being a remarkable drive with a broken wrist. I should have thought that his drives at Spa (in the dry, only six weeks after the accident) and Brands (again in the dry) were far more severe tests of his wrist.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Thanks for all the replies to my initial post. I now fully accept that it takes a lot longer for a broken scaphoid to heal than I realised. The thing that chiefly puzzles me, though, was why it seems that only the German GP win has gone down in (internet) history as being a remarkable drive with a broken wrist. I should have thought that his drives at Spa (in the dry, only six weeks after the accident) and Brands (again in the dry) were far more severe tests of his wrist.

I have no idea why this is the case since in retrospect they were exactly what you said -- severe tests of his wrist.

I am amazed that he could actually manage it since, like Doug, I still have problems with my right hand years later. I had to have extensive surgery several years ago since the damage from both injuries ("Gee, Doc, it's only broke, not like I was shot again or anything serious... just tape it up and I'll be okay," which is pretty much what happened....), along with carpel tunnel problems, almost led to losing the use of my hand and arm. It will never be "right," since -- again like Doug -- I still have relatively little strength in it, something of an occupation hazard at times in my old line of work.

Once more, as Our Doug Sez, it really hurts and for a very long time.....

[JtP1]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
John Coombs told me how Jackie came to break his wrist. Apparently when Jackie was not driiving or testing in Formula 1 he would occasionally help Coombs out when they were testing the Elf Matra F2 car and it was on such an occasion that it happened. Jackie had given some interesting comments on the handling of the car but had run out of ideas so John had the tyre pressures put up from 16 to 22 lbs and Stewart immediately went a second or so quicker. However about four laps into this test he clipped a wheel and got his wrist caught in the steering wheel. As Coombs remarked about the tyre pressures " Sometimes these old fashioned ideas do work"

I knew it was an F2 car, but I thought he clipped a kerb in practice at an early F2 race at Pau. Iirc, JYS only ever raced an F2 car again at Easter Monday Goodwood/ Thruxton(?) and for John Coombs.

[RStock]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
why it seems that only the German GP win has gone down in (internet) history as being a remarkable drive with a broken wrist.

Perhaps many feel as I do that a win on the Nordschleife is more special than wins elsewhere , particularly if you factor in the wrist .

[Kpy]

Originally posted by JtP1



I knew it was an F2 car, but I thought he clipped a kerb in practice at an early F2 race at Pau. Iirc, JYS only ever raced an F2 car again at Easter Monday Goodwood/ Thruxton(?) and for John Coombs.

Have I misunderstood this post?

JYS F2 races for 1968/70 went like this:

1968

31/03 Montjuic, 1st
21/04 Pau, 1st
28/04 Jarama, DNS (practice accident, broken wrist)
15/09 Reims, 1st
20/10 Albi, retired (distributor)


1969

07/04 Thruxton, 2nd
20/04 Pau, retired (driveshaft)
27/04 Nurburgring, 1st
11/05 Jarama, 1st
08/06 Limborg, 12th
29/06 Reims, 4th
13/07 Tulln-Langenlebarn, 2nd


1970

30/03 Thruxton, 2nd
03/05 Fuji, 1st
25/05 Crystal Palace, 1st

1968/9 were for Matra. 1970 was in the John Coombs Brabham BT30.

I pinched the results from HERE Any errors or omissions are mine.

[JtP1]

I happily stand corrected. I always had the impression that JYS avoided F2 races and the like after 68 as he felt that his F2 wrist injury had cost him the 68WC and it was silly to lose that for the small gain in doing F2.

[Kpy]

JtP1 - With all respect, do you think your idea holds much water in the light of JYS's post-1968 career?
In his first championship year, 1969, he competed in 7 F2 races. In 1971, he commuted across the Atlantic to race for Carl Haas in 10 Can-Am races, whilst winning the WDC, coming 3rd in the Can-Am championship and giving himself un ulcer. Hardly the actions of a man who thought it "silly" not to concentrate solely on the WDC.