103 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

They were brute force personified... huge Chevrolet V8s in a chassis compromised away from finesse to handle raw power...

But one was different.

Bob Jane took delivery of his M6 and put it through a long-ish gestation period that led to it becoming one of the most glorious cars ever seen on a racing circuit. It won an Australian title too, though the opposition that could have come from Frank Matich and Niel Allen was gone by then.

Exclusively driven by Johnny Harvey, unless my memory has failed me, the Repco 5-litre V8-powered car was a delight to the eye whenever it appeared. Fast and reliable, it was a winner in every sense of the word.

Let's see who can come up with pictures of this one of a kind McLaren. It's now being rebuilt, we're told, so let's see pics of its restoration too.

[Lee Nicolle]

I would suspect that the Repco was probably a better engine choice than a big block Chev for our circuits. Lighter, quite flexible in power. A small block Chev would have been my choice but that is almost 40 years of hindsight.

[Leo D]

That was... is .... great car Ray. A good topic to bring up

The last time I saw it in the flesh, it was sitting in the T/Mart at the top end of Elizabeth St , Melbourne.

I saw it run a couple of times, mainly at Calder. I'm pretty sure Bob raced it at least once, but I could be wrong on that score.

It was pretty badly damaged in a private practice shunt at Calder one day as well IIRC.... I'm not sure what the date was on that, but it was fairly early on in it's life.

I have mentioned in other posts that it would be great to see this car run again, even if only demonstration laps.... together with the SR3, SR4, Elfin 400....

[aaron]

The SR3, SR4 and Elfin 400 (Traco Olds/Traco Chev) all do run. You should rename the thread A very special Mclaren M6 and get a wider interest. That car was not a Trojan customer car but a Mclaren factory car with different wheelbase and aluminium body I believe. "Slug" Harvey remebers well the battle he had with Frank at Sandown where they set equal fastest laps. Given that the Matich SR4 had a lot more power from the 5 litre quad-cam Repco compared to the 4.4. litre single cam engine it showed that the Mclaren was quite a handling package. A1

[Ray Bell]

I don't think it's appropriate to refer to John as 'Slug' in relation to this car... not at all...

That name came when he was in the HDT playing second fiddle to everyone else. Particularly, it was a reference to his subservient position in the shadow of Brock.

As for the McLaren, I was sure it was a 5-litre. Am I wrong in that?

[Leo D]

I also thought the Repco was 5ltr, however a different configuration to the Matich SR4 unit. I thought that Bob Jane only used the 4.4ltr in the Elfin 400?.....

Aaron, when you say the SR3, SR4 and Elfin 400 (Traco Olds/Traco Chev) all do run. Do you mean they are in running order or actually running on the track?

I've seen Kieth Berryman race in the SR3 and John Bowe and Brian Sampson turn some laps in the SR4 demonstration, and the Elfin Traco/Elfin Chev (Peter Brennans car?) had a run at Winton years ago. I haven't seen the original Bob Jane Elfin 400 have a run since it recent restoration.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Leo D
I also thought the Repco was 5ltr, however a different configuration to the Matich SR4 unit. I thought that Bob Jane only used the 4.4ltr in the Elfin 400?

The 4.4-litre engine went into the Sports Sedan Torana with the high wing, if you recall...

I simply don't have any material here to check this out. But I'm sure it was 5-litres, and with the exhausts up the centre it must have been SOHC?

[thunder427]

Ray, thank you for formulating this great 'thread',I will PM you some photo's for you to post (it still has me perplexed,in New Zealand speak that means "Stuffed', how you do that) so I figured, as I go through the 'Overhaul', Mr Bell can be the window to TNFer's,and I will make sure that all Questions will be answered directly or indirectly by the 'Man' his self...Living book style...just for a starter, The Mclaren/ won the Aust. Sportscar Title in 1971 and again 1972 at the very talented hands of John Harvey...side bar ,the Bob Jane Team also won the Aust.Touring Car Championship that same two years in the Camaro,Firstly with the 'Alloy-427',second year with the 350 spec. engine......great result for a 'privately funded team,quality people were involved ,1stly Mr John Sawyer,then Mr John Sheperd ,both these Gentlemen/Team Managers had a 'Very' high standard of presentation and Bob Jane expected 'Nothing' Less..........those results speak for themselves................................a 'funny/self-indulgent story,...when I was fortunate enough to become a trusted 'Team' member,the Grey St workshop was full of these 'wonderful cars,such as,300s Maserati,(and a 'dead' one sitting on a pallet) M6 Mclaren, LWT E-type Jaguar,X-Thackwell RSR Porsche and in the back storage area was the X-Frank Gardner 67 'Castrol' Camaro,so when nobody was around and I was 'lunching' on my own I used to sit and lunch in a Famous car,because,I figured,One day it will give me "Bragging' Rights.........I said It wouldnt make sense.......regards427...PS, I was waiting for Jerry Entin to drop in !!!

[Ray Bell]

I thought it was only in '73 that the Camaro went to a 350 engine?

You can spill the beans on the gearbox here too, if you like. And as for the photos, my e.mail address is at the bottom of each post I make.

Which engine do you recall was in the McLaren, by the way?

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by thunder427
Ray, thank you for formulating this great 'thread',I will PM you some photo's for you to post (it still has me perplexed,in New Zealand speak that means "Stuffed', how you do that) so I figured, as I go through the 'Overhaul', Mr Bell can be the window to TNFer's,and I will make sure that all Questions will be answered directly or indirectly by the 'Man' his self...Living book style...just for a starter, The Mclaren/ won the Aust. Sportscar Title in 1971 and again 1972 at the very talented hands of John Harvey...side bar ,the Bob Jane Team also won the Aust.Touring Car Championship that same two years in the Camaro,Firstly with the 'Alloy-427',second year with the 350 spec. engine......great result for a 'privately funded team,quality people were involved ,1stly Mr John Sawyer,then Mr John Sheperd ,both these Gentlemen/Team Managers had a 'Very' high standard of presentation and Bob Jane expected 'Nothing' Less..........those results speak for themselves................................a 'funny/self-indulgent story,...when I was fortunate enough to become a trusted 'Team' member,the Grey St workshop was full of these 'wonderful cars,such as,300s Maserati,(and a 'dead' one sitting on a pallet) M6 Mclaren, LWT E-type Jaguar,X-Thackwell RSR Porsche and in the back storage area was the X-Frank Gardner 67 'Castrol' Camaro,so when nobody was around and I was 'lunching' on my own I used to sit and lunch in a Famous car,because,I figured,One day it will give me "Bragging' Rights.........I said It wouldnt make sense.......regards427...PS, I was waiting for Jerry Entin to drop in !!!

as a kid on a Friday night ,mate and i would drive to the T/Mart in Box Hill ,for a while the RSR 2.8 litre was on display in the front window.Glad to see that is still in Australia.
hey 427,do you have any photos of the Maserati', #3059 and #3074 and the LWT?

[Lola5000]

as a kid i remember also working by his home in Kew,the Studley ward and seeing the D'type parked next to a Mercedes Benz 600,in the car port.
Several years latter my father bought Bobs brothers white 600 with red trim.

[Duncan Fox]

Ray you are correct , it was a 5 litre , engine # E26 and the dyno chart I have ( 17/7/71) shows it developed max 452hp @6500 and 405ft/lbs torque @5000 rpm

Bobs M6B was an out of sequence car produced late 1968 at Colnbrook by Bruce as a favour to his long time friend. it is basically an M12 with M6 bodywork that Bob had very styishly reworked .Personally I think this is the prettiest Mclaren sportscar in existance. John Harvey told me they did this because he had difficulty seeing the apex over the original front gaurds .

It was delivered to the Tilbury Docks in London on a car trailer behind the "whale" (the US Ford station wagon McLarens had) by Kiwis Chris Charles and Clive Bush who managed on the way to do extensive side damage with the trailer to a gentlemans R.R.

It arrived in Australia C.K.D.( a term us older colonials are familiar with ) less engine and trans on the freighter SS Port St Lawrence sometime early April 69. It was invoiced at $6000 U.S. and carried serial # 50-01.

I have a great shot of Denny demo ing the car at the A.G.P. which I should post.

[thunder427]

Lola5000; Its funny ,you are there every day,taking a photo seems like a 'great idea now,but then,well basially they weren't going any where,infact when I joined Bob's team these cars were treated as 'Work' benchs,just 'Old' stuff laying around,I actually lined them up and covered them, I didn't want to get them 'contaminated' with 'Acrylic' overspray etc.,I had the job of a 'lifetime',last thing I wanted to be hear was"YOUR FIRED"!!,LOOK AT MY CARS !!!......................I remember one time whem we were at Sandown Raceway for the 'Fangio' Tribute meeting,Bob had the team,under Pat Purcell Management, ready the 300s for some 'Demo' laps,at the track the Starter Motor blew-up,so we went back to the Grey St 'Workshop',sorted through a bunch of boxes stored in this 'Totaled Masa'ratty' 300s ,'Bingo'...one starter motor, bolted straight in,VROOM,Walla!!!the show goes on,I remember us all shacking our heads going,Yep,only Bob would be that 'arsee',or put in another way Organised !!!..........regards427

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


The 4.4-litre engine went into the Sports Sedan Torana with the high wing, if you recall...

Ray, when Ken Hastings purchased the Elfin 400, he purchased it with the 4.4.... so that can't be the one that went into the Torana. I'm sure this has been discussed in another thread.

I don't think it'd be too far off topic to wonder in fact, how many Repco V8's Bob had, and in what sizes /configurations?

BTW, looking forward to seeing those pics 427

[David Shaw]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I thought it was only in '73 that the Camaro went to a 350 engine?

The 350 went in for '72, as CAMS had outlawed the 427. Moffat thought he had his best chance then to knock off the ATCC crown in his beloved Trans Am Mustang, but it was not to be.

The Camaro ran under appeal (IIRC) at the first round of the '73 Championship at Calder, when many runners were blackflagged for not being on the grid when the field came under starter's orders as they were changing to wets due to a sudden downpour. Bob's appeal was subsequently dismissed and it didn't run in another ATCC race, as by then it was for Group C cars and the ZL1 didn't comply.

[Ray Bell]

Ah yes... put out by the new capacity limit...

And so they built the Monaro, which ran alongside of it. Their 350s had plenty of grunt... plenty! The big Oran Park finale saw Janey out in front and Harves riding shotgun... each lap onto the straight he'd pull tight over to the left and wave Moffat by. While planting his boot in that big-power 350, of course.

Moffat, surely, was never more frustrated than that day.

And yes, I'm now bewildered by the movement of the 4.4 Repco. Did Bob get it back somewhow?

[Lee Nicolle]

Quoting a 71? Giant Killers magazine the Toranas 4.4 engine was from Matich that was laying around at Repco. reputedly it was a bag of bits, the heads had never been on the block etc.
For some reason I always thought that the Mclaren had a Repco Holden 5 litre F5000 style engine. It seems I am wrong. Though the horspower figures seem similar but I think the Holdens had a bit more torque?

[Ray Bell]

The Holden F5000 engines had a bucketload of torque...

Like I said in the beginning, the central exhausts of the Bob Jane McLaren were a part of its very psyche. The only GM V8 that ever had them was the Caddy sidevalve.

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

And yes, I'm now bewildered by the movement of the 4.4 Repco. Did Bob get it back somewhow?

As far as I know Ray, when Ken Hastings sold the Elfin 400, the 4.4 went with it.... I have a feeling that the (Elfin)4.4 ended up in a boat? I'm not sure if it has now ended up back in the rebuilt Elfin 400... maybe someone else could shed some light on that?

It's interesting that the M6 ended up with a different powerplant to the Matich SR4... although both similar capacity... they were different. Does anybody know why this is?... Did Bob use a different unit because he was unable to get the same engine as in the SR4?.... Did he maybe go down that road because of "dimensional" requirements to fit into the M6?....

[aaron]

Definately a Repco Brabham engine not Holden. Started in 4.4 litre form but may have changed to 5 litre 740 engine, centre exhaust but not to my knowledge. I thought that only Lionel Ayes and Jim Phillip's cars were 5 litre single cam engines with the Matich SR4 getting the 760 5 litre quad-cam

As for running on the track, yes Keith has the SR3 Olds running and Nigel Tait the SR4 with 4.2 760 engine and Peter Brennan the Elfin 400 nee Taco Olds nee Traco Chev. The mechanical spec is as Niel Allen ran it with 5 litre Chev but the body is as Frank ran it with original Elfin 400 style odd pointy nose.
I believe that Bob still has some repco stuff and the car is not in poor condition by amy stretch. I cannot find the shot of the Bear at Adelaide but it is the same one I gave Duncan. I hope you can find it and post it. A1

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I don't think it's appropriate to refer to John as 'Slug' in relation to this car... not at all...

That name came when he was in the HDT playing second fiddle to everyone else. Particularly, it was a reference to his subservient position in the shadow of Brock.

As for the McLaren, I was sure it was a 5-litre. Am I wrong in that?

Ray you are very correct in what you have written...........

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


The 4.4-litre engine went into the Sports Sedan Torana with the high wing, if you recall...

I simply don't have any material here to check this out. But I'm sure it was 5-litres, and with the exhausts up the centre it must have been SOHC?

Ray your writting on the Repco configurations is exactly correct...

[Ray Bell]

Here's Duncan's pic of The Bear at Adelaide:



Rather more red in the colour than it had in Harvey's day, but still a fabulous looking car.

[Dale Harvey]

The exhaust has been changed from original in that shot. The pipes used to exit over the top of the rear spoiler.
Dale.

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by aaron
Definately a Repco Brabham engine not Holden. Started in 4.4 litre form but may have changed to 5 litre 740 engine, centre exhaust but not to my knowledge. I thought that only Lionel Ayes and Jim Phillip's cars were 5 litre single cam engines with the Matich SR4 getting the 760 5 litre quad-cam

As for running on the track, yes Keith has the SR3 Olds running and Nigel Tait the SR4 with 4.2 760 engine and Peter Brennan the Elfin 400 nee Taco Olds nee Traco Chev. The mechanical spec is as Niel Allen ran it with 5 litre Chev but the body is as Frank ran it with original Elfin 400 style odd pointy nose.
I believe that Bob still has some repco stuff and the car is not in poor condition by amy stretch. I cannot find the shot of the Bear at Adelaide but it is the same one I gave Duncan. I hope you can find it and post it. A1

another SR4 repco is well on the way to being finished in Melbourne.

[aaron]

That's actually John Maher's SR3 Repco and it has been nearly finished for at least 15 years. Don't hold your breath.

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by aaron
That's actually John Maher's SR3 Repco and it has been nearly finished for at least 15 years. Don't hold your breath.

well its nearly done,John has been spending many hours on it since he finished of the Porsche RSR 3.0 litre ex Hagstead car.
Now that a number of other projects are finished it will appear in the future.

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by aaron
That's actually John Maher's SR3 Repco and it has been nearly finished for at least 15 years. Don't hold your breath.

gee he has got plenty of Repco gear.

[Leo D]

Originally posted by aaron
That's actually John Maher's SR3 Repco

Which one would that be Aaron? Would that be worth discussing on the "Elfin 400 - Matich SR3" thread rather than this thread?

[thunder427]

what is John Mahers history of involvment,there was a John Maher,engine reconditioner/drag racer that later 'dabbled' in the 'Odd' Fur-ra-ri in 'Red'....................same or different ??!!

[Leo D]

Originally posted by aaron
Definately a Repco Brabham engine not Holden. Started in 4.4 litre form but may have changed to 5 litre 740 engine, centre exhaust but not to my knowledge. I thought that only Lionel Ayes and Jim Phillip's cars were 5 litre single cam engines with the Matich SR4 getting the 760 5 litre quad-cam

I might be way off the mark here, but I thought all of the 4.4 engines had the exhaust on the outside pointing down? Am I wrong?

My memories of the M6 have always been of the car with the exhaust exiting from above between the injection trumpets.

[aaron]

Yes I was probably wrong about being a 4.4 litre engine. Duncan reckons 5 litre, definately centre exhaust.
John's car (yes the same Ferrari guy) is the original Repco engine car I think but you would have to confirm that with Keith Berryman. The third SR3 is currently for sale in the U.S.
Last time I spoke to John he had umpteen engines, cranks, blocks etc. but that's his business. I used to be really interested in the Australian big sporties but they rarely see the track these days except for Keith and Ian Ross's MRC. Nigel gets the SR4 out pretty often for demo runs so credit to him as well. I really hope the Mclaren is on track soon even for light demo runs. That's a different shot of the Bear at the wheel too. A1

[Ray Bell]

The greatest collection of Repco engine parts, as far as I was aware, was with the Phillips family...

The ex-Ayers Rennmax Repco, which I thought was a quad cam car and I really should check to see, went to Jim Phillips and they gathered a lot of stuff when Repco was getting right out of the business.

Of course, Paul Gibson has a bit of gear, but that's almost certainly all 2.5 and 3.0-litre stuff.

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by thunder427
what is John Mahers history of involvment,there was a John Maher,engine reconditioner/drag racer that later 'dabbled' in the 'Odd' Fur-ra-ri in 'Red'....................same or different ??!!

same guy.amazing amount of gear he has.
owns many wonderful cars.

[Leo D]

So this would be the particular Repco powered SR3 that we are talking about?

[Ray Bell]

Calder, August 1968...

Peter Mabey looks like he's checking the front tyre pressure there, but who are all those people hanging around?

[cavvy]

Originally posted by David Shaw


The 350 went in for '72, as CAMS had outlawed the 427. Moffat thought he had his best chance then to knock off the ATCC crown in his beloved Trans Am Mustang, but it was not to be.

The Camaro ran under appeal (IIRC) at the first round of the '73 Championship at Calder, when many runners were blackflagged for not being on the grid when the field came under starter's orders as they were changing to wets due to a sudden downpour. Bob's appeal was subsequently dismissed and it didn't run in another ATCC race, as by then it was for Group C cars and the ZL1 didn't comply.

Was the car running ZL1 spec?
I understood the car was legal & in 350 spec, but there was a requirement for 25 in the country.

It won at Calder beating Moffat & his Phase 3 GTHO - I like to think the Camaro would have made it 3 in a row in 1973.

[cavvy]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
They were brute force personified... huge Chevrolet V8s in a chassis compromised away from finesse to handle raw power...

But one was different.

Bob Jane took delivery of his M6 and put it through a long-ish gestation period that led to it becoming one of the most glorious cars ever seen on a racing circuit. It won an Australian title too, though the opposition that could have come from Frank Matich and Niel Allen was gone by then.

Exclusively driven by Johnny Harvey, unless my memory has failed me, the Repco 5-litre V8-powered car was a delight to the eye whenever it appeared. Fast and reliable, it was a winner in every sense of the word.

Let's see who can come up with pictures of this one of a kind McLaren. It's now being rebuilt, we're told, so let's see pics of its restoration too.

See attached, the boss is at the wheel - autopics has many photos !

http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

[Ray Bell]

That does look a bit like R F Jane...

Phillip Island, I guess it's 1972? Wouldn't you love to drive it there?

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by Leo D


So this would be the particular Repco powered SR3 that we are talking about?

SR3 #05?

[Ray Bell]

I don't know about the numbering of the SR3s...

However, I would have thought that Frank's Olds-engined one would have been No 1, then the one sold to Kent Price would be No 2, with Frank's Repco-powered version being No 3. If I'm not mistaken, this is the one later sold to Don O'Sullivan?

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I don't know about the numbering of the SR3s...

However, I would have thought that Frank's Olds-engined one would have been No 1, then the one sold to Kent Price would be No 2, with Frank's Repco-powered version being No 3. If I'm not mistaken, this is the one later sold to Don O'Sullivan?

correct, so what# is the Maher car?

[Ray Bell]

Unless No 2 came back from the States and was re-engined, or there was another car in existence... it just about has to be No 3... the car Chris Amon got to know so well.

[cavvy]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Exclusively driven by Johnny Harvey, unless my memory has failed me, the Repco 5-litre V8-powered car was a delight to the eye whenever it appeared. Fast and reliable, it was a winner in every sense of the word.

Let's see who can come up with pictures of this one of a kind McLaren. It's now being rebuilt, we're told, so let's see pics of its restoration too.

Autopics have a photo of the boss at the wheel: Bob Jane at Hume Weir.

http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

[Ray Bell]

You're right! It is Hume Weir...

When you posted that link earlier I thought it was Phillip Island.

[Leo D]

That's definately Bob at the wheel, he is even wearing the same helmet that is in this not very good shot that I took at Calder of the Elfin 400, in 1968.



As to the SR3 pic, that was the Repco Anniversary Meeting, the "S" being to signify sports as they ran a combined class with the 2.5 Open Wheelers, one of the Bob Jane Brabhams having the No 3 on it as well.

That was the car that went to Don O'Sullivan as far as I know, I have a pic of it at the Calder meeting where he ran it, whilst Frank was having his first outing in the SR4 at Calder.



The said quad cam Repco Unit

[cosworth bdg]

This off topic but the only Repco's fitted with centre exhaust were SOHC versions sold as customer engines.....

[Leo D]

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
This off topic but the only Repco's fitted with centre exhaust were SOHC versions sold as customer engines.....

I don't think it's off topic at all Peter. After all, isn't it the fact that the M6 was Repco powered that makes it unique?

Out of interest, do you know how many SOHC 5ltr versions were built?

[Peter Brennan]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I don't know about the numbering of the SR3s...

However, I would have thought that Frank's Olds-engined one would have been No 1, then the one sold to Kent Price would be No 2, with Frank's Repco-powered version being No 3. If I'm not mistaken, this is the one later sold to Don O'Sullivan?

Ray,my knowledge of the Matich sports car number system is as follows.

#1 car was the Lotus 19b

#2 Elfin 400/Traco Olds [my car]

#3 SR3 built 1967,Olds engine,sold to Marvin Webster in June 1967 [still in USA]I have seen the car and does not resemble an SR3,major changes have taken place.

#4 SR3 Built for Kent Price USA,delivered with the Traco Olds from car #3.Car was never raced in Australia.Car was loaned by Kent to Frank for the first Can Am race in Sept 3 1967,Frank fitted Repco Brabham Eng # RB620 E22 for the event.It retired after 40 laps.This was the only time the car raced in USA as Kent's business prevented him from more competition. Kent asked Frank to sell it for him ,car was sold to Malcolm Bailey[Newcastle] in 1969[less engine] and he fitted the engine from car #2 purchased from Peter Malloy.Malcolm did not race this car till 1973 due to a major practice accident.The car was sold to Greg McCombie in 1977,sold to Barry Williams of Donnybrook Vic.Barry sold to Bruce Maplestone who also did not race the car.Car sold to Daryl Duff then to Barry Batagol to Murray Richards to K Berryman.[present owner]

#5 SR3 eng # RB620 E25.[4.4 LTRS] First race was the Second round of the Can Am at Bridgehampton on Sept 17 1967.Car came back and sold to Don O Sullivan then to Stuart Kostera,Barry Richardson to Ranald McLurkin to John Maher. Significant placings 1st Warwick Farm R.A.C Trophy 1968,1st Mallala Tourist Trophy 1968

Only two other cars were built ,the SR4 & SR4b.

Hope this helps Regards Peter

[cosworth bdg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ray Bell
[B]The greatest collection of Repco engine parts, as far as I was aware, was with the Phillips family.../ Ray, There are several sets of all engine model and configarations drawings around the country in the hands of individuals and machineshops but as far as i am aware only one set of casting patterns......