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Mille Miglia on the BBC


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#1 Phil Rainford

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 16:25

If you have access to the BBC network you might be interested in this which in being shown on Sunday at 9.00pm on BBC 2 (UK time)

Note: the Radio Times claims the programme starts at 9.00pm while the Web claims it starts at 9.15pm :confused:


www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00g82ff


Kind regards

Phil

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#2 SWB

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 16:42

Hmmm, might be interesting, so long as the celebrity chef that is featured (James Martin, no I've never heard of him either) isn't stopping off to dice, stuff, roast, or drizzle anything. Apparently he is doing it in an £800,000 Maserati and taking his girlfriend along. Well, that sounds like sport to me.

Steve

#3 john ruston

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 17:14

Amazing how many well know by the general public personalities are not known by those who correspond on this Forum.

Would be so much better if it was Russel Brand and Mr Ross.

#4 john aston

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 17:48

Mr Martin also drives a Caterham R400 - so do I - and is therefore made of the Right Stuff.

#5 David Lawson

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 18:50

He also owns or has previously owned a Mercedes 300SL

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#6 kayemod

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 19:28

Originally posted by David Lawson
He also owns or has previously owned a Mercedes 300SL

David


And you're telling us that he cooks a bit as well?

#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 19:33

Originally posted by Phil Rainford
If you have access to the BBC network you might be interested in this which in being shown on Sunday at 9.00pm on BBC 2 (UK time)

Note: the Radio Times claims the programme starts at 9.00pm while the Web claims it starts at 9.15pm :confused:


www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00g82ff


Kind regards

Phil

The Sky EPG also says 9.15. As the current Radio Times probably went to press on about December 1st t'Interweb and Sky are more likely to be right - chances are Top Gear couldn't edit Clarkson and Co down to less than 75 minutes when they were only scheduled for 60 ;)

#8 Mark Learmonth

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 19:33

Originally posted by SWB
Apparently he is doing it in an £800,000 Maserati and taking his girlfriend along. Well, that sounds like sport to me.

Steve


i'd leave my girlfriend at home :lol:

#9 Stephen W

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 20:05

Originally posted by Mark Learmonth


i'd leave my girlfriend at home :lol:


You obviously haven't seen James Martin's girlfriend! :cool:

#10 Matheson

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 20:19

Excuse me for being cynical, but...

After reading the blurb on the BBC site why do I get the feeling that this is going to be more about "(un)reality TV" than motor racing, full of tempers & tantrums, good luck, agonising misfortune, a moral victory...and will be narrated by an imbecile. Or imbeciles - step forward messrs Woss and Bwand.
I have a feeling this is going to be a wasted 30mins. (edit) Apart from his girlfriend ;)

#11 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 23:06

James Martin is a regular writer of road tests etc in one on the more serious national newspapers (The Telegraph I think) so his enthusiasm and knowledge of the subject might just be a little more substantial than some are giving him pre-credit for.

As for the content of the programme? Lets wait and see : Could be good, could be rubbish. Even if it's only average then it'll be better to see a programme featuring a Maserati than one featuring would-be pop stars pleading for phone votes, surely?

:smoking:

#12 john ruston

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 08:41

Whats so special about the MM these days.Its just another run around Italy with no competition .The programme may be very entertaining so best of luck .

#13 SWB

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 08:44

James Martin is a regular writer of road tests etc in one on the more serious national newspapers (The Telegraph I think) so his enthusiasm and knowledge of the subject might just be a little more substantial than some are giving him pre-credit for.



And he got that job before or after being created a celebrity chef ? ;)

You are absolutely right though, I shouldn't have tarred the book by its cover (so to speak). I was just cynically expecting from reading the BBC blurb some lifestyle porn that just happened to have an £800,000 Maserati involved.

Steve

#14 Rob29

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 08:59

I had not heard of him either,then I don't watch cookery programmes,or read the Telegraph :) Should be some nice scenery at least.I followed the 1987 Mille Miglia Retro by train,any remember some great sites!

#15 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:39

Sounds like a candidate for the recording machine, so that when watching it you can use the fast-forward capability!:evil:
The Times programme listings also says 9:15 BTW.

#16 Nordic

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:43

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
James Martin is a regular writer of road tests etc in one on the more serious national newspapers (The Telegraph I think) so his enthusiasm and knowledge of the subject might just be a little more substantial than some are giving him pre-credit for.

As for the content of the programme? Lets wait and see : Could be good, could be rubbish. Even if it's only average then it'll be better to see a programme featuring a Maserati than one featuring would-be pop stars pleading for phone votes, surely?

:smoking:


Think he writes for the Daily Mail.

His co driver is Sarah Bennett-Baggs, she may have been his girlfriend at the time, but I dont think she is now but she is a regular on the UK racing scene in her Adrian Flux sponsored pink 911.

Martin also loaned one of his other Maserati's a Mistral to the uk importer and it was the centre piece of the Maserati stand at the 'earls court motor show' display at this years Goodwood Revival.

Any idea what other cars are in his collection, it seems to embrace a pretty heady cross section and includes ex F1 cars, motorbikes and the most recent a classic mustang. The gullwing has been sold I think.

#17 Stephen W

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:13

Originally posted by Nordic
Martin also loaned one of his other Maserati's a Mistral to the uk importer and it was the centre piece of the Maserati stand at the 'earls court motor show' display at this years Goodwood Revival.

Any idea what other cars are in his collection, it seems to embrace a pretty heady cross section and includes ex F1 cars, motorbikes and the most recent a classic mustang. The gullwing has been sold I think.


I thought the Masser he uses on the MM was loaned to him rather than part of his "collection"; on the intro I saw they unvieled the car and he looked surprised and very pleased.

:cool:

#18 Rob29

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:29

Originally posted by Stephen W


I thought the Masser he uses on the MM was loaned to him rather than part of his "collection"; on the intro I saw they unvieled the car and he looked surprised and very pleased.

:cool:

Programme listing in 'Radio Times' says he bought it for £800,000,separate article says £650,000.Also co-driver is Sarah,girlfriend Sally-can all 3 fit in the car?

#19 Tony Lethbridge

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 13:15

Cook or not it surely can't be any worse than the rubbish they have been showing over Christmas apart from Wallace and Grommit.

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#20 bradbury west

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 14:38

This week's column
http://www.dailymail...year-quiz-.html
Roger Lund

#21 kurtiejjj

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 14:44

I must say that James Martin's chocolate cake with cookie ice cream was very nice and easy to make (yes I'm male and I bake cakes :cool: ) So for that reason I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment, might be a good show :)

Regarding his car collection; he also owns a 90s Jordan F1 car, he even got Eddie Jordan to sign the front wing on Saturday Kitchen! don't see him driving that any day soon though, he's too fat :wave:

#22 kayemod

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 15:23

Originally posted by Tony Lethbridge
Cook or not it surely can't be any worse than the rubbish they have been showing over Christmas apart from Wallace and Grommit.


I kept wondering what engine they had in that A35 van, what do you think, Downton or Longman?

#23 RTH

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 16:44

Originally posted by kurtiejjj
I must say that James Martin's chocolate cake with cookie ice cream was very nice and easy to make (yes I'm male and I bake cakes :cool: ) So for that reason I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment, might be a good show :)

Regarding his car collection; he also owns a 90s Jordan F1 car, he even got Eddie Jordan to sign the front wing on Saturday Kitchen! don't see him driving that any day soon though, he's too fat :wave:


Gary C cannot post at present has asked me to add in :-

"James is also reputed to own an Ex-Ralf Schumacher 1998 Jordan and runs it on track days "

#24 RTH

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 16:45

Originally posted by kayemod


I kept wondering what engine they had in that A35 van, what do you think, Downton or Longman?


Goes like its got a DFV!

#25 Vitesse2

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 16:52

Originally posted by kayemod


I kept wondering what engine they had in that A35 van, what do you think, Downton or Longman?

Speedwell tuned, obviously: looks bog standard - goes like stink!

#26 john aston

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 18:21

Odd how the bile springs up whenever a bloke off the telly is featured indulging in our favourite sport.Wonder why- are we a bunch of bitter old gits who think that the programme would be better if it featured our good selves giving a Testa Rossa some beans ( excuse modern usage ) across the Raticosa ? Or do we refuse to accept that even chefs can have an interest outside the closeted world of reductions and jus ? Whilst I loathe the D list celebs poncing around the grid before the GP - "Yes Martin , I have always loved Eff one but no , I've never seen a car race before actually "- the fact is you need you have made shedloads before you can indulge your car habit if it involves Maserati sports racers .And there are plenty of 'clebs ' who have pretty serious car habits who do not seem remotely precious at a race meeting.I was especially impressed by Rowan Atkinson turning up at Croft- to race an Aston Zagato - in a rather grimy Mclaren F1 , sandwich wrappings and The Times strewn over the passenger seats.Nick Mason and Chris Rea seem the real deal too.

And as for affecting not to have heard of this cove - Come on Pooters , surf the Zeitgeist and all that.

I can feel my extremities burning in anticipation as you pass judgement on what a crap programme it was and flame me unmercifully.Ho hum

#27 RS2000

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 18:57

Originally posted by kayemod
I kept wondering what engine they had in that A35 van, what do you think, Downton or Longman?


More or less the same thing isn't it? - with RL having been at Downton for some of the major A series advances.

#28 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 18:59

It is, I suppose, part of what we are that we are surprised that people from "other walks of life" like motorcars.
We have to remember that we here are from all sorts of "other lives", from Military Officer to Photographer, via Engineer and Off-licence manager! Why not a cook?
I was quite pleased to find that Brian Sewell (whom I only knew of as an outspoken art critic) turned out to be a motoring enthusiast, and I'm all for pop musicians playing with cars, as they have the funds to buy and use cars that no normal wage-slave could afford.
The problem is usually (and we'll see this evening) that the film-maker concentrates the camera on the people, not the cars - same with art history talks where you need to see what (e.g.) Tim Marlow is talking about, not him talking.

#29 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 19:01

Originally posted by Tony Lethbridge
Cook or not it surely can't be any worse than the rubbish they have been showing over Christmas apart from Wallace and Grommit.

and sadly the Wallace and Grommit was nowhere near as good as they have been (A35 van excepted)

#30 JohnS

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:18

They kept on saying that if his £800,000 car finished the "race" it would be worth about a million. Does this sound right? Does having completed a millionaire's fun run affect a car's value, as if it now had some kind of racing history?

On the whole, pretty awful. We were obviously meant to feel sympathy for him, having barely got 100 miles from the start before breaking down, but I'm afraid I couldn't manage any. Perhaps it was when he bragged about having achieved all his goals in life by the age of 23 which put me off.

And I didn't have a clue who he was either (although my wife did).

#31 Doug Nye

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:27

Either the commentary on that MM programme confused US Dollars with Pounds Sterling - yes, even today - or that poor Mr Martin - who by repute is a good bloke - seems to have been taken for a terrible ride... 300K for engine work, 850K for the MM project, 1M-plus overall - for an A6 Spyder???? Poor chap. :eek:

DCN

PS - And yes, I have watched him making chip butties on the box...and I find him more, ahem, digestible than most of those fellers.

#32 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:27

Originally posted by JohnS

On the whole, pretty awful. We were obviously meant to feel sympathy for him, having barely got 100 miles from the start before breaking down, but I'm afraid I couldn't manage any.

I wondered if it was satire. Especially, as you say, they were talking about the potential increase in value from finishing a regularity test.

Add me to the ones who had never heard of him, then again if you can't prick the lid and bung it in the microwave then I won't even try to cook it.

#33 Tony Lethbridge

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:45

Oh dear, oh dear. I really hoped it wouldn't be as bad as that. Please tell me the name of the book shop as my family, who I forced to watch it, were laughing so much I didn't catch it.

#34 JtP1

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:49

Originally posted by Tony Lethbridge
Cook or not it surely can't be any worse than the rubbish they have been showing over Christmas apart from Wallace and Grommit.



Oh yes it can.

#35 JohnS

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:50

Originally posted by Tony Lethbridge
Please tell me the name of the book shop as my family, who I forced to watch it, were laughing so much I didn't catch it.


I don't think they mentioned the name of it, but it looked like the one next to the Ferrari museum.

#36 RS2000

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:52

Not forgetting that a major contributory factor, regardless of featured unknown chefs, is the modern "Mille Miglia" itself being over hyped, over priced and over there...

#37 RTH

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:57

Just how much do the BBC pay these presenters out of our money ?........and why ?

#38 JtP1

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 22:57

Originally posted by JohnS
They kept on saying that if his £800,000 car finished the "race" it would be worth about a million. Does this sound right? Does having completed a millionaire's fun run affect a car's value, as if it now had some kind of racing history?

On the whole, pretty awful. We were obviously meant to feel sympathy for him, having barely got 100 miles from the start before breaking down, but I'm afraid I couldn't manage any. Perhaps it was when he bragged about having achieved all his goals in life by the age of 23 which put me off.

And I didn't have a clue who he was either (although my wife did).


What a hero, what bravery, driving through Italy at breakneck speed and managing to keep up with the LandRover camera vehicle.

Maybe if he had spent more time listening to the engine builder about the revs to be used, that might have helped.

#39 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 23:02

Originally posted by JtP1

Maybe if he had spent more time listening to the engine builder about the revs to be used, that might have helped.



We had some good dashboard shots which showed that the rev-counter wasn't working - and that on a stupidly expensive car which had had a rebuild that cost more than most would spend on buying a car.
Nice touch that he found (in a book) that his valve failure was historically correct, though!
Too much emphasis on £M prices, and I'm sure he could have bought an Aston that would have done the rally for around 10% of the purchase+rebuild price for that Maserati.

Nice shots of Verona though!

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#40 RTH

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 23:06

Originally posted by Allan Lupton



......... and I'm sure he could have bought an Aston that would have done the rally for around 10% of the purchase+rebuild price for that Maserati.


Or apparently an Isetta or an MGA!!

#41 Mistron

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 23:09

I did wonder if the professional co-driver was perhaps correct when she said the rev limit was at 4k and he said 4.5, but I was to busy laughing at his hissy fit about a bit of sticky tape on the car and the fact that she was labeling the dash with marker pen (and during the fit the value had soared to £1m......) and he wouldn't let her mark the rev limit

It would appear that after just 200 miles of running, he maybe should have spared the revs. and let her mark it.

I did find it hard to have too much sympathy.

If he spent that much on the rebuild, you'd think he'd have driven it enough before the event to realise they had skimped on the dyno tape.

Still, at least it was an hour when Gordon Ramsey and Jamey Oliver were off the telly.

#42 RS2000

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 23:10

Part of the problem I guess is that, with a more reasonable vehicle, as a relative unknown he wouldn't have got an entry.

Wallace and Grommit for the Goodwood Revival? Their A35's speed seems to fit the apparent requirement for having mods/performance bearing little relation to "in period" or normal "modern historic" regs?

#43 Mal9444

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 23:15

I suppose the title of the programme might have held a clue that this was not going to be a programme either about classic cars or about the modern Mille Miglia. I just find it endlessly depressing that no subject (save perhaps the sex life of the albino rhinoceros) on BBC television is these days felt by that medium's current generation of producers to be sufficiently interesting in its own right to be treated for its own sake, but rather must be dealt with through the vehicle (no pun intended) of some celebrity, however obscure, being indulged at the licence payers' expense.

Dumb, dumb, dumb; down, down, down.

#44 Peter Morley

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 00:43

Originally posted by RS2000
Part of the problem I guess is that, with a more reasonable vehicle, as a relative unknown he wouldn't have got an entry.

Wallace and Grommit for the Goodwood Revival? Their A35's speed seems to fit the apparent requirement for having mods/performance bearing little relation to "in period" or normal "modern historic" regs?


You would have thought it would have been easier to just enter his 300SL!
But I suppose telling the Italian organisers you are an English chef doesn't carry enough weight to get an entry (or a job in an Italian pizzeria) so you need a much rarer/Italian car (or enter your MGA as an Mg Le-Mans whatever that means).

I think that Wallace & Gromit A35 would still be outclassed by the other ones at Goodwood, I know theirs is really quick but the Goodwood specials are unbelievably quick!

#45 Peter Morley

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 00:46

Originally posted by john aston
Odd how the bile springs up whenever a bloke off the telly is featured indulging in our favourite sport.Wonder why- are we a bunch of bitter old gits who think that the programme would be better if it featured our good selves giving a Testa Rossa some beans ( excuse modern usage ) across the Raticosa ?


Dad rang me part way through to say the whole thing made him want to puke, but he did start to feel better when they broke down!

#46 john aston

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:01

Always was an optimist and disappointed again; I knew summat was up when programme started with 20 minutes of not very much happening at all .Strange I thought , a 1000 miglia to go so when do we get to the driving bit? The programme was a masterclass of editing- how to fill 60 minutes with bugger all as the numpty broke the bloody car shortly after the start.Seasoned with a bit of gratuitous drama -'will our hero source the right car ? Can he afford to spend another unexpected £50k ? Will he leave his girlfriend for the really rather babetastic co-driver ?' - it was awful.Was really looking forward to the cars being driven through Siena (which I know well ) but we got an eyeblink shot before returning to our blubbing hero.James - listen- worse things have happened than a chef dropping a valve on his Maser - get over it!

#47 RTH

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:15

Shame really, we really want these sort of programmes, but this was not well done.
Failure I think by the producer, director and editor. Far too much time wasted with facial close ups of the central figure, too much of it was so obviously theatrically staged almost as if they were making children's television. Too much trivia, too little story telling. After the car had been broken they should have latched firmly on to other competitors and followed the event as planned with them and told the full story of the event. I suspect we would have seen something very different if it had been made by Mark Stewart productions.

#48 SWB

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:25

I did wonder if the professional co-driver was perhaps correct when she said the rev limit was at 4k and he said 4.5, but I was to busy laughing at his hissy fit about a bit of sticky tape



LOL. Maybe the hissy fit was also because the director wanted to tape the camera looking at the co-driver, not the driver.....

Reading from the same book that Martin discovered the dropped valve of Ascari's team car in the 1948 MM, it shows the owners manual (it was a 'customer' car), which has the power as 130hp at 6000 rpm, and that was running on the poor quality petrol of the day, not the octane boosted mix he had in the tank. So maybe he did have a genuine gripe with the engine builder if it dropped one at 4500rpm (race engines shouldn't need running in other than on the dyno)?

I'm still staggered he gets paid to write about cars, the entire programme he looked like a bunny caught in the headlights.


Steve

#49 ensign14

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 09:09

Originally posted by john aston
Will he leave his girlfriend for the really rather babetastic co-driver ?

That whole bit was baffling. A racing "audition" for a co-driver who was only going to read a map? It seemed more contrived than Big Daddy v Giant Haystacks. She seemed very nice though.

I wonder if they could revive the Mille Miglia for real nowadays...stuff health & safety, this day and age it should be easy enough to give out the appropriate warnings for those on the route and shut the roads for 3 days...

#50 john ruston

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 09:46

The usual anti BBC thing from Mr Hinton.My wife liked it because of the chef with bits about cars thrown in.
Only problem was the question from her asking how much it cost me as I have done it a few times.Yes ,the figurers were overstated but that impresses many of the viewers and I bet Paul Osbourne thought it wonderful.Its what the public want and would think it cost about the average of any poorly watched 1 hr TV over Holiday period.Don't be such snobs as James not a bad bloke and I would lend him a suitable car to do it next time but unless you are Italian or Argentinan you do not want a proper navigator as anything in the top 100 is a miracle for a Brit.Remember you Telegraph readers the vast majority of Brits prefer other newspapers and I assume the BBC were catering for the TG viewers not TNF rivet counters.Russell Brand for navigator next time!