21 replies to this topic

[ensign14]

The thread on Harry Schell at Monaco in 1950 got me thinking a little (whilst bored at work, shh don't tell) about entries that may have made logical sense at the time, but now seem totally out of character and place.

The one in particular that got me thinking was another Cooper driver - John Barber. A Billingsgate fishmonger, he had one World Championship Grand Prix start - but instead of being sensibly local, like those other (near) one-hit-wonders of the 50s like Leslie Thorne or Peter Ashdown, it came in Argentina. How come he never tried again in his home race?

There's also the oddities like Robert Arbuthnot thinking a Lagonda was just the thing with which to enter the Indy 500 in 1946 or Paco Godia racing in Formula 2 in the late 1960s.

And my absolute favourite - check out the DNQ here...

Any stories behind these or any other strange entries?

[Ray Bell]

How about Paul England in the German GP... was that '57 or '58? In a Cooper F2 car... that wasn't his, if I understand the story correctly...

That's certainly a long way from home.

[Mallory Dan]

Contemporary FF2000 driver, Jeremy Turner, entered a Brabham Alfa BT45 in the mid 1978 Aurora F1 race at Mallory. Very odd, anyone know anymore about this?

[D-Type]

Monaco 1948 - Cisitalia voiturettes driven by Taruffi and ... Nuvolari
Zandvoort 1958 - Porsche RS, Godin de Beafort

And from the world of sports car racing: Le Mans 1961 - Austin Healey Sprite entered by past outright winners Ecurie Ecosse and driven by past outright winner Ninian Sanderson

Edited by D-Type, 03 February 2011 - 23:29.

[LotusElise]

Originally posted by ensign14
The one in particular that got me thinking was another Cooper driver - John Barber. A Billingsgate fishmonger, he had one World Championship Grand Prix start - but instead of being sensibly local, like those other (near) one-hit-wonders of the 50s like Leslie Thorne or Peter Ashdown, it came in Argentina. How come he never tried again in his home race?

It must have been a case of being in the right place at the right time. Unfortunately, he couldn't repeat the trick.

[Giraffe]

Originally posted by LotusElise


It must have been a case of being in the right place at the right time. Unfortunately, he couldn't repeat the trick.

Er, don't you mean the right plaice?!?! He finished 7 laps adrift; his chips were down.....

[Rob G]

Great thread! How about Comotti driving that Jaguar-engined Ferrari at Monza in 1950? I have to keep web surfing to a minimum here at the office, so I can't double-check my facts. My apologies if I botched them.

Then there was Jim Hurtubise's final attempt at qualifying a front-engined car at Indy. Admirable, yet bizarre.

Also, I've always thought that Grand Prix cars with fenders looked totally alien compared to their competition.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Rob G
Great thread! How about Comotti driving that Jaguar-engined Ferrari at Monza in 1950? I have to keep web surfing to a minimum here at the office, so I can't double-check my facts. My apologies if I botched them.

You did slightly , it was Biondetti. But at least it made sense; this was someone who had driven Ferraris and Jaguars entering his home race with something a bit different to try to give him an advantage.

Whereas someone entering a pre-World War 1 Peugeot in a post-World War 2 Indy 500 was perhaps very windmill-tilty.

[Doug Nye]

Colin Chapman in a Vanwall at Reims - Bernie E. in his Connaught at Monaco - Jack Brabham in a works Lotus 25 at Monaco - Phil Hill in a Filipinetti Lotus 24 at Reims - Giovanna Amati in anything - Eugen Bohringer's works Porsche 904 in a snowy Monte Carlo Rally - the works Matra MS650s (?) in the Tour de France Automobile - the Connaught C-Type at Indy...etc

DCN

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Contemporary FF2000 driver, Jeremy Turner, entered a Brabham Alfa BT45 in the mid 1978 Aurora F1 race at Mallory. Very odd, anyone know anymore about this?

Contemporary Autospurts reported there might have also been an appearance by Desire in the fan car. I believe Turner was entered for a few - must have been trying to do a deal with Bernie I guess, and one or other was trying to raise a little bit of interest for a budget. I cant actually recall Alfa making works engines available to privateers in the 70's, although there were rumours of Alfa engines for Brambilla and Ghinzani in BT48s for the 1980 AFX series.

[fines]

Originally posted by ensign14
Whereas someone entering a pre-World War 1 Peugeot in a post-World War 2 Indy 500 was perhaps very windmill-tilty.

... or just a connoisseur, living a dream!;)

[fines]

The Blood brothers at Indy in 1915, and Joe Hunt in 1968.

[Barry Boor]

How about Roger Ward, expecting to blow away the F.1 cars in his midget, at Sebring 1959.

And being surprised when it never happened

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
How about Roger Ward, expecting to blow away the F.1 cars in his midget, at Sebring 1959.
And being surprised when it never happened

...well, he had blown away the F1 cars earlier in the year

[Barry Boor]

Er......?? Indianapolis?

[RStock]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Er......?? Indianapolis?

I assume Mr. McKinney means the Formula Libre race at Lime Rock which Ward had won . There was at least one ex F-1 car in the field , Chuck Daigh's Maserati . I think that was the only one though . Must have given Ward a false sense of security .

[David McKinney]

Yip - that's the one
And yes, there was only one F1 car in the field. I was exaggerating for effect
And there were two F2 cars as well

[Barry Boor]

Aaaah, humour... I remember that!

[Ross Stonefeld]

Jigger Sirois?

[fines]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Jigger Sirois?

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
How about Roger Ward, expecting to blow away the F.1 cars in his midget, at Sebring 1959.

And being surprised when it never happened

It's Rodger, and he was not surprised at all about the result. Ward was a good road racer, later owned and drove a Cooper-Buick, and he knew full well what he was up against at Sebring on Dec. 12, 1959. His entrant, Bob Wilke's Leader Card team, may have been a bit surprised, but I do believe Ward was savvy enough to know the score.
Tom

[Gerr]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
How about Roger Ward, expecting to blow away the F.1 cars in his midget, at Sebring 1959.

And being surprised when it never happened

I'm sure Ward knew full well the Leader Card midget would be uncompetitive. He knew the difference between Lime Rock and Sebring and the difference in rules between Formula Libre and Formula One.
Wilke had trouble getting his entry confirmed and it wasn't until about a month before the GP that it was accepted, leaving little time to make the car close to competitive and legal for F1.
The little (1.7 litre) Offy had run on spec AvGas, not methanol, giving away horsepower to the 2.5 litre Grand Prix cars and it also caused serious drivabilty problems. The engine was moved forward in the frame to accept the two-speed transmission, upsetting the handling. The displacement gap killed them, but they were just shy of 150 mph on the straights...and that... is stinking fast in a midget.