146 replies to this topic

[Tony Lethbridge]

Originally posted by David Beard


He wouldn't have been a young man to be racing a kart in 72?

Bernard certainly wasn't a young man and would never reveal his age, but he was still pretty quick. His speedway career started in 1931 and your picture was actually taken in 1947. Apart from speedway and karting, he raced a Norton in the Manx Grand Prix and also competed at Goodwood club meetings with a Healey 100.

His karting career began in 1960 when Gerry Dommett promoted Festival of Speed events at Exeter's County Ground speedway stadium. Broncho ran a little garage ajoining the stadium and wandered in to see what was going on. He was offered a drive in a kart and soon afterwards formed the Exeter club and became the agent for Fastakarts and later Blow. I bought my Meteor from him. He was also for many years an RAC Steward.

Broncho was an amazing character. He always drove a Fastakart and used Montessa engines. We were racing in a charity meeting on a barrack square in Plymouth, and by the the final there were only about three class four supers still running. Always the showman Broncho whispered to my Dad 'Tell your boy to get his foot down. We'll put on a show 'til the last lap'. Sure enough he let me go into the lead, but was literally pushing me all the way. It was the race of my life, and obviously come the last lap I wasn't going to give in. Next thing I knew Broncho was alongside me going into a tight corner and bang I was in the tyres.

Sadly Bernard died of throat cancer in 1981.

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by David Beard


Didn't Tyrrell once try 4 front discs in F1? (and I don't mean on the six wheeler!)

I do recall someone testing a Dale kart at Shenington with a 350 or 500 triple Kwacker...but I don't recall the Monaco one. Love to see a pic though.

Yes indeed, I think it was on 003, four solid discs.

A 500cc kart would be equally scary, although Youtube is littered with karts with very large engines, way too mauch power and brakes, simply not up to the task.

I have got a quick reply from the chap that mentioned the Depailler at Monaco thing, and I quote,

"It was a 250 triple on a E frame, full bodywork, with a long circuit seat. I seem to remember that it had very trick front wings, that tipped up when you braked, for a little extra bite, and was in full Kwak' colours, and bloody fast......"

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by Tony Lethbridge
Sadly Bernard died of throat cancer in 1981.

Born 29 Sept 1913, St Thomas District, died Q4 1981 Exeter.

[Tony Lethbridge]

Thank you. I didn't know that.

[speedman13]

[villiers210]

I'm sure a lot of you already know, but for those of you who don't - 210 Villiers is alive and well!!! The 210 Challenge hold 7 meetings a year on short circuits, and 5 a year on long circuits. The racing is fast and furious - highly competitive, and unusually for karting these days, you still get oil underneath your fingernails!!!

We regularly boast the highest number of gearbox entries at the meetings we attend, and have members aged from 16 to 60 something. For more information please see:- www.210challenge.com Please check it out, and why not come and pay us a visit at one of the meetings. Better still, why not come and race with us?

As an interesting footnote, I have written an article that is published in the March edition of Karting Magazine, that features the racing career of the great Reg Gange.

Martin Jones

[ghinzani]

I remember you boys coming down to Forest, everything you say is true I am happy to report!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by villiers210
I'm sure a lot of you already know, but for those of you who don't - 210 Villiers is alive and well!!!

Thanks Martin , and welcome.

When I raced in 210N in the seventies, the rule book was already saying pretty much that the engine should conform to the dimensions of the old Villers 9e 197cc engine, rather than actually be based on one. Thus a typical engine would have an Upton aluminium alloy barrel with lots of ports never seen on the 50s, a full circle crank, possibly a Yamaha big end or con rod, Powermax or Omega single ring piston, and Motoplat electronic ignition as normally used on a Bultaco or Montesa. I think even the crank cases could be non Villiers so long as they wree they same shape (perhaps Upton made those too?) The effect was a simple engine, that while not revving madly , gave a reasonable amount of power considering its heritage, but which was in a need of rebuild or repair after nearly very meeting. In my case I thought myself lucky if it GOT to the end of the meeting!

So here we are over 25 years on from my era, and the things are still going! What do they have to consist of now, and how are they kept running?

[villiers210]

Since the 70's and the early days of aluminium barrels and so forth, I suppose the biggest improvement has been the quality of replacement spares. Without a shadow of a doubt, engine spares that are available now are of a far higher spec and more reliable.

Two major developments since those days has been the introduction of needle roller casette type gearboxes, and dry clutches with belt drive replacing the old wet type clutch with primary chain. As far as the gearbox is concerned, it is now only a matter of removing the gearbox end cover to gain full access to the gearbox - handy when you are in a rush to alter the gearing. Gone are the days when you had to strip the clutch to gain access to the gearbox innards.

The dry clutch now only uses 3 drive plates. It runs far cooler than the wet type clutch, and is also a lot cleaner!!

Amal 34mm carbs bored out to 35mm are still in use, along with the Dellorto VHSB 37 or 38mm. Most racers still use the Motoplat ignition system, although there are a few PVL systems around.

The Villiers 9E recently had its 50th birthday, and while we are proud of its heritage, and proud to be the oldest surviving class in karting, we are not afraid to look to the future and try to develop the engine further. There are some mighty fine engineers and engine tuners that are involved with the 210 Challenge, and one of the best features of the Challenge is that newcomers to the class are always welcomed and assisted. We try to go out of our way to make sure that nobody is "left struggling". The camaraderie between drivers, mechanics and family members is second to none.

To give you some idea of the progress of the humble 9E, Charles Morris (our Short Circuit Champion of 2008) currently holds the lap record at Little Rissington in a time of 32.56 seconds (average speed 67 mph). Not bad for a circuit that has in effect 2 hairpin bends!!.



Martin Jones
www.210challenge.com

[David Beard]

Originally posted by villiers210

When did it become the fashion to put the barrel on backwards, Martin?

[villiers210]

I suppose it must be 15 or 20 years now since it became fashionable to turn the barrel round. One of the main reasons for doing so was to allow for better and easier exhaust system design. Gone are the days when exhausts are always cracking.

You would have thought that turning the barrel round may have made the engine run hotter, with the airflow now not in direct path of the hottest part of the engine i.e. the exhaust side, but strangely enough it makes little or no noticable difference.

We still have members who have been racing "for donkeys years", but you know what they say about Villiers - "It's not a sport - it's an illness!!"

Martin

www.210challenge.com


By villiers210

[coupekarter]

Re the previous picture, which looks as though it was taken at Kimbolton - Are you guys allowed to run without a nose cone these days? Or is the picture older than it looks?

[villiers210]

We can run either with or without nose cones. Completely a matter of choice. Personally (and this is just my opinion) if it were down to me, then nose cones would be outlawed - then perhaps some of the drivers in some of the classes might think twice before driving their karts like they are at the funfair.

Well spotted - the pic is from Kimbolton last year, and if you look very closely, the driver in the background who is covering the letter "I" on the Maxxis banner is none other than Reg Gange


Martin

www.210challenge.com

[David Beard]

Originally posted by villiers210
If you look very closely, the driver in the background who is covering the letter "I" on the Maxxis banner is none other than Reg Gange

Really? I would have expected him to be leading!

One strange little thing I recall about Reg Gange Jnr in the 70s...when ZIP boots were the footwear of the moment, Reg wore some sort of bovver boots, the tread of which was always distinctive behind the pedals.

One of the reasons why I was not a successful karter was that I was too good at spectating, and part of that is the fault of Mr Gange. Impressed me every time I saw him. Must buy my first copy of Karting for I don't know how many years, if it contains a Gange biog...

[ghinzani]

Given Regs son looked late 30's when he came up to FE a few years ago I think he can be allowed a little leeway on speed because of his age, eh?
I am really surprised the MSA dont make you run nose cones. And then change your pod bar mountings. And then outlaw your bodywork that was previously deemed safe. And then make you buy a fully enclosed chain guard. And a brake protector. And plastic rear bumpers. and... and.. and so people leave MSA and go non-MSA becuase they are tired of having every last penny squeezed from them! Sorry, rant over!

ps I run a gearbox nose on my 4 stroke, I like the look of it basically, its different.

[villiers210]

Ghinzani - do I detect a hint of cynicism??? He he he he - I know where youre coming from. And for fear of trying to sound like a Party Political Broadcst on behalf of the 210 Challenge Party, the one thing I love about the 210 challenge is that we are by and large self governing. e.g. no controlled fuel, Dunlop SL3 tyres (2 sets per season) etc etc. However, we are subject to MSA scrutineering and kart build regs.

Martin
www.210challenge.com

[villiers210]

OK - I promise this will be my last post for a while (I feel like I have hijacked this forum!!). But I thought you may be interested to see this.


By villiers210

Yes its none other than Reg Gange racing last year in the 210 Challenge. Note the right hand engine mount - unusual in 210. The Chassis Reg used was a Tonykart that originally started out in life racing in the 125 class. To be fair, it did look quite nimble when it was on song. Bring back any memories?

Martin
www.210challenge.com

[ghinzani]

Thats a pretty new Tony too, judging by the bodywork. Whats the age range on your usual chassis btw?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by villiers210
Bring back any memories?

Martin
www.210challenge.com

The number 10 brings back memories...for me it was 7 for Moss, 44 for Mansell, 10 for Gange.

[Rowdy Canuck]

Ghinzani,

You were looking at how to route exhaust on a twin...



I was directed to this forum by Chris Parks....Thank you. It brings back many memories of me as a child thumbing thru Karting Magazine for all of the SuperKart pics and editorials.

I was able to make this a part of my day to day life now and have taken superkarting to a new level (personally). We manufacture the BRC250FE engine and have been fortunate to work on many FE karts in the past 8 years.

Keep the historical pics coming..

Thank you!

[ghinzani]

Wow thats clean!! Very nice.

[pdsracing]

This is quite a late reply but I've only just discovered the site.It's very thoughtful of you to honour our fallen comrades so to speak.Tony Saville was killed right in front of me at Longridge in a 250 heat. I didn't know him personally but karting was a big happy family back then (I'm sure it still is, I don't know) and any loss was keenly felt by us all. I'm happy to put in writing my tribute to him and all the others after all these years. Karting has never had the recognition it deserves but when someone dies, it's a reminder that karting is a serious motorsport that deserves respect.
Regards to everone.
Phil

[pdsracing]

Apologies,forgot to say the above is a reply to speedmans post of 4th Jan.

[Historic Karter]

Hi

You guys need to visit [URL=www.britishhistorickartclub.com[/URL] and register, Reg Gange, Martin Hines, Graham Liddle and Tony Keele are just a few of the members.
The club boasts the largest historic karting photographic library on the internet and there is a link to all the archived albums.
You will also find that there is a thriving RetroRacer series, in 09 we are expecting bigger Villiers grids than any other club, the karts are all "Old Style" 1959/1979 none of the Toyr Us plastic clad types.

[jamie1975]

Hi there. I just happened to google Dave Buttigieg (Butty) and it came up with this site so I've been reading for the past half hour. Brings back memories, though a lot of it is before my time.

I'm 33, never raced, but was first taken along to gearbox karting events from the age of 4. That continued til I was university age, so early / mid 90s.

My dad wrote for Karting Magazine, Kart and Superkart and then set-up Kart Racing Monthly.

When I was a kid I used to 'follow' Reg (Gange). Always had the number 10 unless he'd got 0 (World Cup) or GP (British GP at Silverstone). I used to clean his kart religiously - remember him being sponsored by his friend Martyn Merrit - Vingt Trois. Gold bullion dealers in Hatton Garden I think. I still have a cup he got from Jyllands Ring (sorry, probably spelled that incorrectly) in Denmark, one of the first years they ran the World Championship - 81 I think.

In the early 90s I mechaniced for Ian Shaw and Dave Buttigieg (though obviously not at the same time) and was lucky enough to take in British, European and World Championships.

Butty became something of an icon to me. To my mind, the best there's ever been. From what I remember Bohlin (brilliant in his day) used to reckon Butty was the best there was and Butty would say similar about Lennart. Butty gave up for a good number of years (he came back for a one off GP appearance in a Bridgestone liveried outfit - perhaps late 80s - he was walking it when his engine seized with a couple of laps to go). When he came back in 91(?), I started spannering for him. I remember he came up to do a winter clubby at Three Sisters and stayed at my parents house. He came back on an Anderson and was instantly on the pace.

Some fantastic memories, mostly only part formed, I hoped you don't mind me indulging myself...

Butty in his first long circuit race back - Cadwell, February, it'd have been 91 I think, it'd been snowing so they ran it on the woodlands circuit. I remember standing on the assembly area at the top of the mountain and watching Butty shadow Ian Shaw (who'd won everything the year previous and was the man to beat). He eventually passed Ian on the brakes, round the outside (!) into the hairpin and I can still remember the gasps of shock as he did so - 'you can't do that, not to Ian, it's not possible'. Brilliant.

Butty at a British Championship race at Pembrey - he'd kind of fallen out with Anderson at this time cause he didn't think he was getting the kit he should have. He was determined to win - and he did. 10 lap race, 8 second gap at the flag!

What I don't actually remember in person - much to my regret -is Donington 82 when he won the European Championship. He'd been quick all weekend but seized in the pre-final whilst leading comfortably. He pulled off at Old Hall and my mum, who was watching down there, said to him - 'Who's going to win now then you daft devil?' 'I am' he replied. And he did. I can't remember whether he lined up for the final 43rd of 46th - but either way he came through the pack and took the lead with laps to spare!

I remember reading an old report in Kart and Superkart about a race at Thruxton I think - it was wet. The report went something like this...'He (Butty) had nothing in the way of equipment that 3 or 4 others didn't have yet he regularly lapped 4 / 5 /6 seconds a lap faster than anybody else.' In the wet, he was something else.

The British GP at Silverstone, '82. I was up in the old commentary tower - above me was the commentary box, below was a hospitality suite - I think with Phil Glencross' pals in there. Reg (Gange) had been on it all weekend and was determined to win. As they came round woodcote at the end of the first lap Reg had already checked out - he was 100 yards infront - a gap he would hold to the end. I still remember the cheer from the suite below as he came into sight that first time. I remember also, they used to hold the prize giving in a marquee behind the main start finish grandstands - it started off being quite a posh affair with free sandwiches and the like but was gradually scaled down to nothing! - anyway, as they announced Reg's name as the winner of the 250s the cheers and applause he got was louder and longer than anyone else. It just never stopped! A very popular winner, thats' for sure.

Cadwell Park (possibly 93, European Championship round) - before they'd reprofiled Barn and added the chicane before the bottom of the mountain. Chris Stoney lapped in 1:23:56. The outright lap record was a 1:23:49 by Enrique Mansilla in an F3 car. Stoney said afterwards 'If I'd have known I was that close I could have broken it. I was quite comfortable.'

Mechanicing for Ian Shaw - again about 93 / 94 - I think it was Carole we were at (circuit in France near Paris). We'd been quickest all weekend and were quietly confident. Come the race, he was punted off the circuit at the first corner. With a grid of 40 something Formula E karts he came round at the end of the first lap plum last - I still remember him coming down that main straight kicking his damaged nose cone free with his left foot! I also remember that he didn't manage to kick it all off - and that proved quite lucky - at the end of the race we popped the kart on the weighing scales and we were bang on the weight limit. And yes, he won...I always liked and rated Ian, but after seeing that drive he shot up in my estimation.

And Brands Hatch, for the GP, on the Indy Circuit. I was watching from the inside of the paddock on the outside of the corner that sweeps left after druids. And for the one and only time watching Formula E (I was mechanicing for Ian at the time I think) the sheer speed of them frightened me.

Somes names - from various eras - see if they mean owt to anyone...

Butty
Reg
Phil Glencross
Steve Styrin
Rob Kerkhoven
Richard Dean
Kurt Luby
Donovon Collier
Roger Goff
Trevor Roberts
Stuart Mead
Poul Petterson
Chris Stoney
Eric Gassin
Peter Gray
Perry Gronstra (mad as a hatter - always raced in shirt and tie!)

[David Beard]

Good stuff, Jamie. Perhaps we will have heard of your Dad from those mags, if you will name him for us?


Since you mention 3 Sisters, are you based in the North West?

[jamie1975]

Hi, no problem.

My dad's name's Mike Smith. He started writing for Kart & Superkart in about '81 I think and also wrote for Karting Magazine. Latterly, he set-up his own magazine called Kart Racing Monthly.

He also wrote 'The Complete Book of Long Circuit Karting', published by Haynes in 1985 and then '1988 Kart Racing Review'.

Three Sisters is just down the road. We live in Bolton. I've not been for years. In fact, I've not seen karts for years with the exception of a demonstration couple of laps at Cadwell last August when I was there for the BSB round.

I've often wondered what Butty's up to these days. Last I heard he'd moved to an island off the south coast! He was also big into his boats and sailing. You won't be surprised to hear he won at that, too, I believe!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by jamie1975
Hi, no problem.

My dad's name's Mike Smith. He started writing for Kart & Superkart in about '81 I think and also wrote for Karting Magazine. Latterly, he set-up his own magazine called Kart Racing Monthly.

He also wrote 'The Complete Book of Long Circuit Karting', published by Haynes in 1985 and then '1988 Kart Racing Review'.

Three Sisters is just down the road. We live in Bolton. I've not been for years. In fact, I've not seen karts for years with the exception of a demonstration couple of laps at Cadwell last August when I was there for the BSB round.

I've often wondered what Butty's up to these days. Last I heard he'd moved to an island off the south coast! He was also big into his boats and sailing. You won't be surprised to hear he won at that, too, I believe!

Jamie, please consider joining one of our northern TNF get-togethers.

Wasn't Butty a champion at some sort of sailing, and speedway, before his karting fame?

[jamie1975]

What's TNF?

Butty - yes on both counts. I believe he won some (I presume there's more than one class?) Junior Speedway British Championship back in the mid 70s. Sailing, I think he won post karting - or at least in his break from mid 80's to '91. I know he went back to boats after he stopped again mid 90s but whether to compete or just for fun, I'm not sure.

There's also a story - and I don't doubt it's true, but I have no specifics - that in his brief spell racing Formula Ford 1600s (he gave it up, thought they were too slow!) he once lapped a certain Derick Warwick during a race at Snetterton. It was wet mind...

He was brilliant when he came back in 91 after his lay-off. He won the European Championship again twice (making, I think, 4 times in total) and also won the British Championship a further two times (making 5 times in total). Never won the British Kart Grand Prix though. Always eluded him, that one.

[jamie1975]

Sorry, just realised - TNF - The Nostalgia Forum...some might say the clue's in the name...

[john winfield]

Originally posted by David Beard
This is thread I had been thinking of starting for some while myself. I have quite a few old Karting and Kart & Superkart mags, programmes, a few photos and memories which may be relevant to the thread

I followed karting from the time it first started in Britain, mainly at the Long Marston circuit near Tring. (1960 or 61 I think)The American derived gearless karts were soon joined by the British gearbox ones. Villiers at first, then the first Bultaco powered one that I saw appeared with a chap called Noman Ward with his “Wackall “kart. Then Stirling Moss appeared at Long Marston in a Keele Bultaco…and won, to my delight. (Mike Keele was involved with his Lotus 19 and others?)

David, am I right in thinking that you used and perhaps still do live in the Tring area? (I grew up there). The reason I ask is in relation to a book that I have just bought: "Tring 1951-2000" by Jill Fowler, published in 2008. If you're still in the area you've probably got it but, if not, it's available on Amazon and has a few interesting photos for the motor sports enthusiast. On page 30 are two karting shots, one of 'Young Roger Keele' surrounded by his trophies, and one of racing at Long Marston with the following caption: 'In May 1960 it was announced that kart racing was to be staged at Long Marston and the Three Counties Kart Club was formed. Many of the karts were made locally by Keele Engineering Co. Keele Karts were described as the Rolls Royce of kart racing and eight were ordered by King Hussein of Jordan. Later in the year a British team went to Barcelona to compete in an international kart race. The first eleven places were taken by British drivers out of a field of forty three and the British team took the team award. Tring drivers were Norman Ward, his son Nobby and Roger Keele Jr..'

Elsewhere in the book are some excellent pictures of the young Pat and Stirling Moss, and a beautiful shot of Pat and Erik at home, polishing the silverware. There are also two shots of Harold Grace, one sitting on his Riley, one seconds after a Silverstone start as he chases leader Stirling Moss, Grace in the Riley and Moss in the Mk VII Jaguar LWK 343.

I am trying to contact the author to see if I can post some or all of the photos on TNF.

John

[Stu Player 1970]

Hi there. I just happened to google Dave Buttigieg (Butty) and it came up with this site so I've been reading for the past half hour. Brings back memories, though a lot of it is before my time.

I'm 33, never raced, but was first taken along to gearbox karting events from the age of 4. That continued til I was university age, so early / mid 90s.

My dad wrote for Karting Magazine, Kart and Superkart and then set-up Kart Racing Monthly.

When I was a kid I used to 'follow' Reg (Gange). Always had the number 10 unless he'd got 0 (World Cup) or GP (British GP at Silverstone). I used to clean his kart religiously - remember him being sponsored by his friend Martyn Merrit - Vingt Trois. Gold bullion dealers in Hatton Garden I think. I still have a cup he got from Jyllands Ring (sorry, probably spelled that incorrectly) in Denmark, one of the first years they ran the World Championship - 81 I think.

In the early 90s I mechaniced for Ian Shaw and Dave Buttigieg (though obviously not at the same time) and was lucky enough to take in British, European and World Championships.

Butty became something of an icon to me. To my mind, the best there's ever been. From what I remember Bohlin (brilliant in his day) used to reckon Butty was the best there was and Butty would say similar about Lennart. Butty gave up for a good number of years (he came back for a one off GP appearance in a Bridgestone liveried outfit - perhaps late 80s - he was walking it when his engine seized with a couple of laps to go). When he came back in 91(?), I started spannering for him. I remember he came up to do a winter clubby at Three Sisters and stayed at my parents house. He came back on an Anderson and was instantly on the pace.

Some fantastic memories, mostly only part formed, I hoped you don't mind me indulging myself...

Butty in his first long circuit race back - Cadwell, February, it'd have been 91 I think, it'd been snowing so they ran it on the woodlands circuit. I remember standing on the assembly area at the top of the mountain and watching Butty shadow Ian Shaw (who'd won everything the year previous and was the man to beat). He eventually passed Ian on the brakes, round the outside (!) into the hairpin and I can still remember the gasps of shock as he did so - 'you can't do that, not to Ian, it's not possible'. Brilliant.

Butty at a British Championship race at Pembrey - he'd kind of fallen out with Anderson at this time cause he didn't think he was getting the kit he should have. He was determined to win - and he did. 10 lap race, 8 second gap at the flag!

What I don't actually remember in person - much to my regret -is Donington 82 when he won the European Championship. He'd been quick all weekend but seized in the pre-final whilst leading comfortably. He pulled off at Old Hall and my mum, who was watching down there, said to him - 'Who's going to win now then you daft devil?' 'I am' he replied. And he did. I can't remember whether he lined up for the final 43rd of 46th - but either way he came through the pack and took the lead with laps to spare!

I remember reading an old report in Kart and Superkart about a race at Thruxton I think - it was wet. The report went something like this...'He (Butty) had nothing in the way of equipment that 3 or 4 others didn't have yet he regularly lapped 4 / 5 /6 seconds a lap faster than anybody else.' In the wet, he was something else.

The British GP at Silverstone, '82. I was up in the old commentary tower - above me was the commentary box, below was a hospitality suite - I think with Phil Glencross' pals in there. Reg (Gange) had been on it all weekend and was determined to win. As they came round woodcote at the end of the first lap Reg had already checked out - he was 100 yards infront - a gap he would hold to the end. I still remember the cheer from the suite below as he came into sight that first time. I remember also, they used to hold the prize giving in a marquee behind the main start finish grandstands - it started off being quite a posh affair with free sandwiches and the like but was gradually scaled down to nothing! - anyway, as they announced Reg's name as the winner of the 250s the cheers and applause he got was louder and longer than anyone else. It just never stopped! A very popular winner, thats' for sure.

Cadwell Park (possibly 93, European Championship round) - before they'd reprofiled Barn and added the chicane before the bottom of the mountain. Chris Stoney lapped in 1:23:56. The outright lap record was a 1:23:49 by Enrique Mansilla in an F3 car. Stoney said afterwards 'If I'd have known I was that close I could have broken it. I was quite comfortable.'

Mechanicing for Ian Shaw - again about 93 / 94 - I think it was Carole we were at (circuit in France near Paris). We'd been quickest all weekend and were quietly confident. Come the race, he was punted off the circuit at the first corner. With a grid of 40 something Formula E karts he came round at the end of the first lap plum last - I still remember him coming down that main straight kicking his damaged nose cone free with his left foot! I also remember that he didn't manage to kick it all off - and that proved quite lucky - at the end of the race we popped the kart on the weighing scales and we were bang on the weight limit. And yes, he won...I always liked and rated Ian, but after seeing that drive he shot up in my estimation.

And Brands Hatch, for the GP, on the Indy Circuit. I was watching from the inside of the paddock on the outside of the corner that sweeps left after druids. And for the one and only time watching Formula E (I was mechanicing for Ian at the time I think) the sheer speed of them frightened me.

Somes names - from various eras - see if they mean owt to anyone...

Butty
Reg
Phil Glencross
Steve Styrin
Rob Kerkhoven
Richard Dean
Kurt Luby
Donovon Collier
Roger Goff
Trevor Roberts
Stuart Mead
Poul Petterson
Chris Stoney
Eric Gassin
Peter Gray
Perry Gronstra (mad as a hatter - always raced in shirt and tie!)

I have just found this thread and it has brought back some excellent memories... I experience of 250 karts was brief but fantatstic... I was 12 years old and my Dad was employed by Memorex (Butty's sponsor in 1982) and was also one of the race engineers for Butty during that season, so as a 12 year old kid I attended all the races in that season with my Dad and was a (very small) part of the team....

Jamie, I do remember Butty winning the European Championship at Donnington in 82... As you say he started pretty much at the back and took the lead at the old chicane coming onto the pit straight. From recollection I think he overtook a racer with the second name of Ball for the lead... It was an awesome win and the E on the number plate for the rest of the year was a fantastic testament to his skill.

He really did have huge talent and whilst I recognise I am biased, in my opinion he was the best racer in 1982 by some way... He had some bad luck with engines and tyres during the season but where he didn't have technical problems Butty usually won and even when he did have technical problems causing retirement he usually retired from the lead.

Unfortunately Memorex pulled out of the sponsorship deal for the 83 season and the fun was over for me as my dad fell out with the team boss and quit...

Anyway, fantastic memories, thank you!...

[smuudge]

Hi, this is a pic of Stuart Ziemelis, my old kart racing mentor and former British GP, Dutch and French Champ winner through the 80's and 90's. I have some more pix which i will dig out and upload. Would be interested if anyone has any other pics of Stu from the heydays...

Edited by smuudge, 05 May 2009 - 21:42.

[georgew65]

When did it become the fashion to put the barrel on backwards, Martin?

It started about 1982 ,several drivers turned the barrels the wrong way round to increase the air flow to the carb and it did increase performance slightly .problems occured during wet meetings I, E, water being sucked into the carb.as there were no commercially available air filters at that time many made a cover out of washing up liquid bottles with a panel cut out of the side leaving the bottom intact thus preventing water entering the carb ,it was then secured with a jubilee clip . very primitive but effective

[dentistTubster]

Hi guys,

I'm a current Superkart driver, racing for Viper Racing (Ian Harrison's team) and I've seen Trevor Roberts mentioned - he also drives for Viper, albeit on the European stage.

Just wondered if anybody was interested in some onboard videos I've taken over the last couple of years:







Superkarting has gone up in the eyes of the public after the BBC did a piece in the F1 show on Martin Hines, so if anyone has any photos they'd like to share, or any questions, I'm interested in that as well!

[alansart]

I saw the Superkarts at Oulton Park the other week for the first time in years. I have to say you lot are mad, but good to watch

Toby, I think this is you.


Toby Davies, F250 National Anderson Honda Superkart by Alansart, on Flickr

Another member of the family?


Ben Davis, F250 National, Anderson Honda Superkart by Alansart, on Flickr

Edited by alansart, 10 October 2011 - 17:47.

[faaaz]

Hi guys,

I'm a current Superkart driver, racing for Viper Racing (Ian Harrison's team) and I've seen Trevor Roberts mentioned - he also drives for Viper, albeit on the European stage.

Just wondered if anybody was interested in some onboard videos I've taken over the last couple of years:







Superkarting has gone up in the eyes of the public after the BBC did a piece in the F1 show on Martin Hines, so if anyone has any photos they'd like to share, or any questions, I'm interested in that as well!

Great vids!

I'm surprised as to why superkarts aren't considered the doorway into F1 these days. They seem to be more dangerous and difficult than the usual karting that F1 drivers all go through.

[E1pix]

Great vids!

I'm surprised as to why superkarts aren't considered the doorway into F1 these days. They seem to be more dangerous and difficult than the usual karting that F1 drivers all go through.

.... Toby, fantastic, karting at Silverstone must really be awesome!

Great thread to boot! I raced sprint karts in 1977-78, 1981-83, and 2001-02, and love it (won 5 championships). In 2002, we were the US development team for a motor then-new to the States, the Biland SA250. At one sports car course, our times were close to Formula Ford times and someday I'll digitize and download the helmet-cam footage. Yes, I know this isn't applicable to gearbox karts, hope that's okay, kart threads are rare here.

A good friend recently bought a 250 "Superkart" but I don't think he's run it yet. He's busy in 125cc classes and is about to head to Vegas for the SuperNationals.

Jamie, is that the same Mike Smith that raced Formula Super Vee in the '90s? I know he was from Oregon as well. We were up your way on a photo trip 11 months ago, great part of our nation for sure!

[David Beard]

What a shame the gremlins struck afer all that effort to pass the no.1 kart!

[dentistTubster]

What a shame the gremlins struck afer all that effort to pass the no.1 kart!

Indeed, was extremely frustrating, but what can you do?

[dentistTubster]

I saw the Superkarts at Oulton Park the other week for the first time in years. I have to say you lot are mad, but good to watch

Toby, I think this is you.


Toby Davies, F250 National Anderson Honda Superkart by Alansart, on Flickr

Another member of the family?


Ben Davis, F250 National, Anderson Honda Superkart by Alansart, on Flickr

Thanks Alan! That's me indeed, and my brother, Ben, who was 7th last year, but has had a fairly awful season this time around. I had a pretty good day at Oulton, 4th in both races, but the engine wasn't quite 'on song' compared to the guys ahead of me.

That looks like the exit of turn 1 to me, am I right?
EDIT: On second thoughts, it might be Shell Oils...

Edited by dentistTubster, 11 October 2011 - 16:14.

[Paul Hurdsfield]

I was at Oulton t'other week as well

[dentistTubster]

I was at Oulton t'other week as well

You got any of me, #20 blue/black/white kart?

[Paul Hurdsfield]

Just these two.

[David Beard]

Unashamed bump for this thread. On a quest to locate and talk to Chris Merlin...

[E1pix]

On again, off again karter my whole life. So fine by me! :-)

[nmw01223]

I have just found this thread, very interesting. I raced class 1 in late 60s to late 70s, then 125 national (s/c + one Cadwell) from mid 80s to 1990.

A lot of the names mentioned I recognise. Roger Goff for instance used to prepare my (Rotax) engines.

I haven't been to any form of kart meeting since the tragic Brands meeting of 1993 where there were two fatalities. Sorry to hear it has largely died out.

I think class 1 was originally always the route for aspiring GP drivers simply because they came out of juniors at 16, briefly into the equivalent senior class (class 1 again) then cars. So it was probably simply that juniors raced class 1.

As to why it was / is dying, if it is, there is probably a simple reason - money. It is pretty much why I stopped. The trouble with any form of motor sport is that being so technological, more money - if spent wisely - gives advantage. Whilst for those dead set on a motor racing career that may not be a show stopper with sponsorship, club racers who are the backbone of sports like this are different.

For myself, I was reasonably successful, funded it all myself, and never had any intention of making a career out of motorsport. I imagine there were many like me, and once the costs ratchet up too much, that is it.

As an example, the first racing kart I had in 1966 was £45. My last year in class 1 in 1977 cost me £500, and that was hopeless. My last 125 season in 1990 was £5000 - and that was only 6 meetings on one set of tyres! In the mid 1990s the son of a colleague won the junior championship and with sponsorship, I think the budget was towards £50000. That is a bit more than inflation.

So maybe the 'golden years' lasted until karting priced itself out of the market. If so, a pity, but possibly it just represents the life cycle in a sport like that.