87 replies to this topic

[sterling49]

I have just had a phone call from a friend, telling me that a car (remnants/bent shell?) has been found in a garage somewhere, I am sceptical, but does anyone on the board know what happened to Jimmy's R.A.C car?

I still wished that he had finished the event, he put up some superb times in that fabulous looking car

[RS2000]

Been waiting for this to happen! Keep us posted. I'll ask around.
The accepted line is that it was cut up at Boreham and went on the scrap heap as there was hardly a straight panel left, no one would have been interested in buying such a thing at the time and it had been the last works outing for the Mk1. I can't post the photos of the wreck back at base that exist as they are surely copyright of someone, if not Ford still?
The first seriously modified works Escort rally car - AVX574G, the Gp6 car used by Roger Clark on the 68 Coupe des Alpes - has mysteriously appeared on Ebay this week. After people started pointing out that the car had clearly been Photoshopped on to its claimed Finnish residential street, it was withdrawn. It's true fate is said to have been a loan car to Barry Lee for rallycross assault and battery and then sold on for the running gear.

This one should be good!
I once started looking into the origin of NVW241C. It was said to have been "found" by Boreham for JC for the 66 RAC at the last minute. We have the 3 new white/green/black cars NVW239C, NVW242C (older 66 Monte Gp1 reg but new car) and (old reg but new car) KPU380C for the 66 Coupe des Alpes then used by the same drivers on the 66 RAC. We know the subsequent story of 239. 242 is said to have been written off on the 66 Welsh shortly after the RAC and scrapped. KPU380C was in other hands later (driven by David Sutton at one time but mysteriously having lost the black bonnet...).
So what was 241C? A test/spare car built at the same time as the other new white cars? The white/green car used by Roger Clark on the 1966 1000 Lakes (where no other works Cortinas were entered)? The 66 1000 Lakes came before the 66 Coupe des Alpes so it was not one of those 3 cars? I have unsuccessfully asked in Finland, via France, for any photos of the 1000 Lakes car. We know old KPU red cars, not newer white ones, were used for testing prior to the 66 RAC and have placed 386C and the ex-Elford 395C at Bagshot in that context.

[RS2000]

(Actually, I know where it is. It's in France. I helped the guy who built it by providing photos of the damage and of the rally plate - which I now think is wrong in respect of the colour of the "SUN" word on it...)

[David Lawson]

Originally posted by RS2000
(Actually, I know where it is. It's in France. I helped the guy who built it by providing photos of the damage and of the rally plate - which I now think is wrong in respect of the colour of the "SUN" word on it...)

Are you sure that is the genuine car? I am convinced the original is in my model-making room.....



A slot car version I did a few years ago.

David

[RS2000]

Rubbish! How could you pretend an undamaged car was the real thing!

[sterling49]

Originally posted by RS2000
I once started looking into the origin of NVW241C. It was said to have been "found" by Boreham for JC for the 66 RAC at the last minute.

My 1st mistake, of course it was 1966 the years just roll by Said mate is going to e-mail me some photos, when I have them, I will forward to you, at least to look at, if not post, in case of copywrite problems. I really liked the "look" of the cars at this particular time, the black bonnet and the "Ford" red lamp covers and Minilites, just brilliant!

On looking closely at both models (excellent, both!) David's is obviously running at night, because the lamp covers are off and it also has no "Sidewinders" along the sills, churlish, I know! RS2000s has the body damage but also is minus the "Sidewinders"?

[Alan Cox]

[sterling49]

Fantastic photos Alan, as a youngster then (13) I wish Icould have been out in the forests to witness the event 1st hand. My earliest memories of spectating on a rally was relatively late, actually 1970, blimey, even that sounds a long time ago.

Looking closely, did the cars not have roll cages then?
Lucas 700 fog lamps, what are the spots?

[RS2000]

They seem very keen on rally dioramas in France.



The guy planning it had appealed for photos. One of the French-sourced offerings he received was this. I hope it's not copyright but what puzzled me was how they'd managed to catch Victor Meldrew out spectating in 1966...(3rd from left at back).

[RS2000]

Originally posted by sterling49
Looking closely, did the cars not have roll cages then?
Lucas 700 fog lamps, what are the spots?

Ford didn't use a bar then - although some private entrants of the same cars did. BMC used an original-type Aley bar (single back stay) from 66 (an aluminium version sometimes). Ford initially went to just a "B" post hoop with no back stays - not sure without checking whether that was on Mk2 Cortinas or only when the Escort arrived.
In case anyone asks, bars were first mandatory for 1972 on International rallies - FIA spec was thicker than the original Aley bar and had 2 back stays. Front cages were only required then on very large cars I think.

Sure all lamps on Ford and BMC were Lucas 700 series in 66 but not sure which particular "700" type between spots/fogs. Appendix J had changed for 66 and made symetrical mounting of aux lts mandatory (in 65 BMC had them scattered all over in various sizes).

[elansprint72]

You can tell that Jim was not a "real" rally driver; they only ever damage the car on the map-reader's side.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by elansprint72
You can tell that Jim was not a "real" rally driver; they only ever damage the car on the map-reader's side.

So true, failing the passenger side, the old "back-end" in 1st was always a favourite, when all else had failed!

[jwoch]

I'm as sceptical as the others. I spent years, starting in the early eighties, researching the fate of this car. The Boreham guys said they had scrapped it and surrendered the log book back to the licencing authority. I followed up their usual buyers of their 'surplus stock' and none of them recalled having bought it.
So the proof will be in the inspection of the car when the reclusive owner lets someone see it.

[jwoch]

On the spot lamp subject, the two versions most used on the works Cortinas were Lucas SLR 700 long range spot lamp (often called flamethrowers) and Lucas SFT 700 fog lamps. Available for passenger cars with a full chrome body. Commercial vehicle options had a black body.
The Ford covers were a flimsy PVC(?) with a thin foam backing. They were in two parts (front and rim) 'welded' together with an elasticated rim edge. [I still have a few ex Roger Clark's cars].

[PS30-SB]

More here:

http://lotus-cortina.com/page22-23.pdf

[David Birchall]

Surprising to see this survived, given the damage incurred:

http://lotus-cortina.com/page22-23.pdf

[sterling49]

A very interesting article David. See thread NVW 241C, perhaps Twinny can merge?

Sterling U.K.

[David Birchall]

OOPs!

Perhaps Twinny should delete this thread....

[Twin Window]

I've just merged it...

[David Birchall]

Thanks Twinny,
Do we know any more yet? I recall this car/event when it was current and this is the first mention I have seen of the car since. Given it was a production saloon, I would have thought it would be broken up?

[Graham Gauld]

Looking back on RS2000s post I assume his painting of Jim in the damaged Lotus Cortina came from my photo of Jim taken on the stage immediately after the accident and when the car was partially hammered out at the Aberfoyle control. Jim used the original photograph in his Christmas card that year which I produced for him with the slogan " Car by Ford, Coachwork by Clark! "
A very well known French artist who specialises in painting on stone was intrigued by the photo and did this painting on a stone backing and presented it to me just before he moved to Los Angeles about ten years ago where he is now making a fortune.
A copy of the original photo is in my Jim Clark biography

[RS2000]

Just another note of caution. Terry Sandham is undoubtedly a Cortina expert and can discuss works GT boot hinges with the best of them but he does not, for example, correctly describe the Moorcroft KPU381C as a re-creation. I've never had any reply from him on specific rallying history data sent, so concluded he is not expert in that particular aspect. He has not seen this shell. What is this magazine or newsletter this link goes to? It does not open to view the rest of the document.
It may be nothing new to single seater historians but this sort of secrecy is not the way things work with rally cars - or if it is tried, it is found out (a couple of works Cooper S histories are unravelling this very week and we have also "seen" Escort AVX574G...). There are 42 years to explain here for a severely battered unitary construction shell that received no attention after much of a long, rough forest rally. Does someone go to that much trouble to get it initially off a scrap heap and store it and allow it to pass to a new owner 20 years ago with no idea of what it is ? So the door doesn't fit. The original looked so badly bent because it was aluminium and the skins were split...

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Looking back on RS2000s post I assume his painting of Jim in the damaged Lotus Cortina came from my photo of Jim taken on the stage immediately after the accident and when the car was partially hammered out at the Aberfoyle control. Jim used the original photograph in his Christmas card that year which I produced for him with the slogan " Car by Ford, Coachwork by Clark! "
A very well known French artist who specialises in painting on stone was intrigued by the photo and did this painting on a stone backing and presented it to me just before he moved to Los Angeles about ten years ago where he is now making a fortune.
A copy of the original photo is in my Jim Clark biography

As mentioned earlier, I don't know who did the drawing (posted on a French forum) but assume it is French. I now see that not only was Victor Meldrew spectating at that spot but so (5th from left) was Prince William...Perhaps he drove there in Jim Clark's "RAC Rally car KPU386C", having bought it from the auction house that described it as such...

[PS30-SB]

Originally posted by RS2000
What is this magazine or newsletter this link goes to? It does not open to view the rest of the document.

http://lotus-cortina.com/

..........And please don't shoot the messenger!

[RS2000]

Yes, know the site, but where is the magazine or whatever the 2 pages are from on the site?

[Graham Gauld]

RS2000

I know Meldrew was not a spectator but this guy was..............he drove me up there in a second hand Mercedes Benz from the garage as he wanted to see Jim on the rally.

The other pic shows the mechanics really getting down to the job of repairing the Clark car at Aberfoyle. Brian Melia is on the left and Henry Taylor the team manager has is back to us with the white shirt.

[RS2000]

That's helpful in clarifying for me that the (Turner?) painting of the car being repaired is said to be Aberfeldy not Aberfoyle (I can recall servicing in Aberfoyle in later years and the buildings looked right for the painting but this photo confirms another I've seen was also Aberfoyle).
For those not born at the time, the sort of jacket JYS is sporting was the height of fashion in 1966 and to be found for sale in Carnaby St....
IIRC "rally jackets" as we know them had only just started to appear on the market (I was really proud of my Supersport one in 67/8) and duffle coats and real anoraks were still to be seen on rally people....

[sterling49]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
RS2000

I know Meldrew was not a spectator but this guy was..............he drove me up there in a second hand Mercedes Benz from the garage as he wanted to see Jim on the rally.

The other pic shows the mechanics really getting down to the job of repairing the Clark car at Aberfoyle. Brian Melia is on the left and Henry Taylor the team manager has is back to us with the white shirt.

What absolutely fabulous photos, thanks for posting Graham, wee Jackie was always one of the, if not, the most fashionable, and dapper dresser from the F1 brigade Just love the picture with the AVO mechanic hanging out of the Cortina's bonnet, and not an awning in site, brilliant

[jwoch]

Just a thought. Can the Ed. change the date in the title of the thread. It's the 1966 event not the 1965.

[jwoch]

Originally posted by RS2000
Yes, know the site, but where is the magazine or whatever the 2 pages are from on the site?

It is from the latest edition of the Mk1 Cortina Owners Club magazine.

[RS2000]

The two pages posted don't give that exact context and won't open to anything more, so hence the question.

[lake-linden]

This one should be good!
I once started looking into the origin of NVW241C. It was said to have been "found" by Boreham for JC for the 66 RAC at the last minute. We have the 3 new white/green/black cars NVW239C, NVW242C (older 66 Monte Gp1 reg but new car) and (old reg but new car) KPU380C for the 66 Coupe des Alpes then used by the same drivers on the 66 RAC. We know the subsequent story of 239. 242 is said to have been written off on the 66 Welsh shortly after the RAC and scrapped. KPU380C was in other hands later (driven by David Sutton at one time but mysteriously having lost the black bonnet...).
So what was 241C? A test/spare car built at the same time as the other new white cars? The white/green car used by Roger Clark on the 1966 1000 Lakes (where no other works Cortinas were entered)? The 66 1000 Lakes came before the 66 Coupe des Alpes so it was not one of those 3 cars? I have unsuccessfully asked in Finland, via France, for any photos of the 1000 Lakes car. We know old KPU red cars, not newer white ones, were used for testing prior to the 66 RAC and have placed 386C and the ex-Elford 395C at Bagshot in that context. [/QUOTE][/B]


Interesting thread - RS2000, do you know the reg number or racing number of the Bengt Söderström/Gunnar Palm - Ford Lotus Cortina, that ran in the 1966 1000 Lakes Rally ? It retired (listed "Gearbox") but it's not clear what car it is. The other Lotus Cortina on the 66 1000 Lakes was of course the white and green/black Lotus Cortina driven by Roger clark/Brian Melia. I have been promised a detailed copy of this entrants list for this event from Finland - so when I get it I'll try to post it here.

[RS2000]

Originally posted by lake-linden
Interesting thread - RS2000, do you know the reg number or racing number of the Bengt Söderström/Gunnar Palm - Ford Lotus Cortina, that ran in the 1966 1000 Lakes Rally ? It retired (listed "Gearbox") but it's not clear what car it is. The other Lotus Cortina on the 66 1000 Lakes was of course the white and green/black Lotus Cortina driven by Roger clark/Brian Melia. I have been promised a detailed copy of this entrants list for this event from Finland - so when I get it I'll try to post it here.

All the (very limited) information I have found suggests there was only one works Cortina on the 1966 1000 Lakes - R.Clark's car. It would have been surprising if Soderstrom wasn't there (Elford is more understandable). If correct, I would assume Soderstrom was in a Swedish registered car (used for the Swedish Championship? - he seems to have had a red locally-registered one in 65 in Sweden?). I have absolutely no proof the two weren't in the new white/green cars NVW239C and NVW242C but that would conflict with all other reports I've seen about the 3 cars being brand new for the Coupe des Alpes.
Any other data you can find would be very interesting.

[RS2000]

Have now seen Atis Krauklis' Motorsport report of the 66 1000 Lakes. Clear implication Soderstrom was a full works entry (went out with a box that would select no gears). However, he specifically mentions Clark's car was white/green/black but makes no mention of Soderstrom's being this "new" colour. Mentions that the engine had to be changed on Clark's car overnight before the start because "a piston had disintegrated" and the replacement came from Sweden (implying it may have been there as a spare for a Soderstrom Swedish Championship programme?). The last record I have of a Soderstrom works car used before then is the Acropolis (red KPU387C, when R.Clark was in the red KPU382C) but he must have been out on at least one other ERC rally in between?

[Carles Bosch]

Interesting thread - RS2000, do you know the reg number or racing number of the Bengt Söderström/Gunnar Palm - Ford Lotus Cortina, that ran in the 1966 1000 Lakes Rally ? [/B][/QUOTE]


I can add the rally number, #52.



Carles.

[Carles Bosch]

The last record I have of a Soderstrom works car used before then is the Acropolis (red KPU387C, when R.Clark was in the red KPU382C) but he must have been out on at least one other ERC rally in between? [/B]

Between the Acropolis and the 1000 Lakes, Söderström certainly did the Rallye Vltava -or Czech Rally- where he managed to finish 2nd o/a @ the wheel of the Lotus-Cortina #15... but I haven't found if this was a works car or not...


Carles.

[RS2000]

Thanks Carles. I think they split the Ford works team for 66 Vltava and Polish Rallies (Soderstrom doing Vltava and Elford Polish, with Clark doing both?) - I will check - but I know I have no details of car reg nos until Coupe des Alpes.

Edit:
It seems the Ford works team missed the Geneva Rally as only Gps 1 and 3 scored championship points, not Gp2. Ironic that Staepelare in the Ford Belgium Gp1 car (with Alan Mann engine) won.
Elford did the German Rally (retd: engine bearings)
Soderstrom and Elford did the Vltava in works cars, both said to be red. Elford hit a tree and retired.
Clark® did the Polish, presumably in a red car.

(Given Elford's mechanical problems on the Monte, loss of the Flowers win over an homologation paper misprint on gearbox ratios, loss of the Coupe des Alpes win with engine and then engine problems on the RAC, it's hardly surprising he was talking to von Hanstein by then...)
If only Chapman had never messed with the original rear suspension and BRM had built reliable rally TCs, potential Lotus Cortina European rally domination in 65 and 66 might have made later Escort success look less impresssive...

[lake-linden]

I can add the rally number, #52.


Carles. [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Carles, that is helpful for the list I have - do you have a record for the Roger Clark car in the 1000 Lakes ? race number ?

[Carles Bosch]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lake-linden
I can add the rally number, #52.


Carles. [/QUOTE]

Thanks Carles, that is helpful for the list I have - do you have a record for the Roger Clark car in the 1000 Lakes ? race number ? [/B][/QUOTE]


Nope. Only that he managed to finish 20th o/a (and 4th in Class 4), with Brian Melia in the passenger's seat.


Carles.

[jwoch]

Some confirmed Lotus Cortina 'Works' entries from my records

1965 Alpine: KPU 380C, 385C, 387C (RHD on this event) & 395C
1965 RAC: Car 3 Elford/Stone KPU 395C - Crashed out. Car16 Soderstrom/Ohlsson -Ret'd: Piston failure. Car 29 Ljungfeldt/Rhenfeldt, KPU 383C - Ret'd:Diff. Car 40 DSM/Nash - Crashed out.
1965 Welsh: Won by R Clark/Robson in KPU 383C
1966 Swedish: Three entries, drivers were Soderstrom (KPU 387C LHD), R Clark and Elford (NVW 242C)
1966 Flowers: Won by Elford in MNO 761C. Possible that NVW 240C also did this event (Car40).
1966 C of I: Elford/Stone retired with a split sump; R Clark/Porter in KPU 382C retired with oil pump failure; Melia/Davies in NVW 24?C car 5 - 2nd overall.
1966 Moldau: Soderstrom finished 2nd in NVW 240C
1966 W German: Elford/Davenport - no details
1966 Tulip: Elford/Davenport 2nd overall (MNO 761C); Lampinen/Ahava; Soderstrom/Palm. Car 75 was NVW 240C
1966 Acropolis: Soderstrom/Palm (winner in 387C); R. Clark in KPU 382C; Elford in MNO 761C
1966 Geneva: G Stepeleare won in a Ford of Belgium entry. Elford also drove a Sir Peter Moon entered car.
1966 Gulf: Elford in KPU 381C, R Clark in KPU 383C, Melia in another (no details)
1966 Vltava: Soderstrom/Palm NVW 240C
1966 Polish: R Clark in 382C - 4th overall
1966 1000 Lakes: R Clark/Melia; Soderstrom/ No details
1966 Alpine: Clark/Melia NVW 242C; Elford (retd when in lead); Greder/ Stepeleare; Soderstrom/?
1967 Swedish: Soderstrom/Palm winner in swedish reg car A8712

[RS2000]

Thanks for that jwoch. Taking your list as the base, I can add:
66 Monte. (All Gp1)Soderstrom NVW240C lhd, Elford NVW242C red(not the later Clark white car), Clark NVW243C, ?/? MNO761C, Procter/Mabbs NNO821C (Mann-built), Lungfeldt/Rhenfeldt NNO822C rhd(Mann), Greder ? Ford France, (+MNO29C white/green said later to have been a Mann 66 Monte car when used by Rose/Manchester in UK??)
66 Swedish. Clark NVW243C (still in Gp1 spec from Monte Carlo?).
66 Tulip. Lampinen in the Sir Peter Moon car.
66 Gulf. Melia in NNO822C? (photo I took below, still in Mann colours).
66 Coupe des Alpes. Elford in the new white/green KPU380C, Soderstrom in the new white/green NVW239C.
66 Tour de Corse. Greder 5986SL75 (Ford France?)

Which still leaves us looking for a previous life for NVW241C...

(Will reply to your PM)

[jwoch]

That's a rare photo of NNO.
I wouldn't be surprised if 241C had any other life. It's quite posible that it was it's first (and last) time out on the '66 RAC. Some personal observations:
JC was seeded highest of the Ford team, he was world champion and would without doubt attract the most media attention - why would Ford send him out in a used car? My guess is that 241C was the last of the new cars and JC got it.

[sterling49]

What overall position did Jim hold, before the 1st of his excursions? I know that he was setting very fast stage times.

[RS2000]

I hadn't realised Elford drove the Sir Peter Moon car (Geneva 66). That was white/green I'm sure, so did Clark drive it in Finland maybe? (despite reports suggesting both cars - Clark and Soderstrom - were works and were certainly works-serviced). About the only other possibility would bring us back to NVW241C? We need someone with the Motoring News or Autosport report!
One other addition to initial jwoch list: D S-M/Nash 65 RAC car was the original red KPU380C (confirmed to me by Graham Robson once).

Clark in 383 starting the 66 Gulf as No.1 (Elford, No.3, still standing on offside after talking to R.A.C.?)

[RS2000]

Originally posted by sterling49
What overall position did Jim hold, before the 1st of his excursions? I know that he was setting very fast stage times.

I only have early times. Best indication maybe is that JC's best so far was the tarmac Porlock but still dropped 10sec to Makinen.
Other factors: Makinen punctured in SS1 so was slow. All the other works Minis except his had the standard 510 cam in anticipation of snow and were slower. Elford was in engine trouble from the start so not representative. Clark R. may have been overdriving to make a point, went off on SS4, did the rad and then the head gasket. With the 2 quicker Ford rally drivers knobbled, Soderstrom may already have been driving to finish whilst JC was free to push?

[jwoch]

The top 10 stage times for all stages on the RAC are given in the Autosport December 2, 1966. JC's last stage finish was at Inshriach 2 where he was second equal with Makinen. JC crashed on Loch Achray loosing 45 minutes. He was 9th overall at the time. I hope no-one wants me to type them all out!!
On a more general note:
Autocar, 14 Jan 1966 reports on a visit to Boreham "In addition to three Monte cars, we also saw cars under preparation for the Swedish Rally and Rally of the Flowers". A Ford library photo I have shows four of these - all red.

[sterling49]

If only I still had my old MNs, thanks for the information RS and jwoch

[RS2000]

Originally posted by jwoch
My guess is that 241C was the last of the new cars and JC got it.

The fact that a publicity shot of J.Clark/B.Melia either side of a car not long before the event was Elford's RAC car KPU380C would tend to support that - NVW241C unavailable as still being built and not a pre-existing rally car. There's also a photo of JC at Eddington Mains with a Lotus Cortina, not an Elan, that doesn't appear to be the irs 550VAR. Did his or someone else's loan road car get used for NVW241C?
(the Team Lotus white/green KPU396C is said to have first been on a road car Chapman wrote off and KPU387C stayed a white/green road car?)

[jwoch]

All the works rally cars started as new cars, they did not use existing road cars. This is because Boreham did some modifications to the rally cars whilst they were still in the production line cycle. These were mods that were impractical as retrofits. So 241 will have been a designated rally car from the start.
KPU 386C did have a major 'rework' in May 1966. I previously had no information on what it was before the picture of it in red as the Jim Clark practice car.
Below is KPU 383C on what I think is its only overseas event, the Norwegian Viking Rally. Driven by Norwegian Rally Champion Trond Schea with me in the hot seat. A thrilling and unforgettable experience!

[lake-linden]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwoch
[B]All the works rally cars started as new cars, they did not use existing road cars....

Really interesting - but having read through all these comments, in support of RS2000's input in his early entry here, does this most recent thoery of jwoch suggest that the car was not found at the last minute for Clark ? Forgive me for my rather thin contribution, but would it not be wise to assume that because there is apparently no evidence (to date) of NVW241C having existed prior to the RAC Rally, that the car was indeed found at the last minute by the Ford competition department and that the finding and allocation of and additional car deviated from the norm?

I am still waiting for something to arrive from Finland relating to the 1965 1000 lakes. This will be of interest to this thread, but for now – can anyone help me briefly with some of my research? I am looking for the most complete list of entries for the 1962 Alpine Rally. Can any of you guys help ? Sorry it’s not part of this thread – maybe I should open a new thread…