69 replies to this topic

[ERault]

First of all, happy new year to everyone on this forum.

I just read David Styles' Sporting Rileys and there is no question it is a remarquable work. I must admit I did know very little about Rileys, and to my mind the subtitle Forgotten Champions was quite well choosen. However, as good was the book, I find frustating its ending with WW2.

I would very like to find out about the post-war racing career of this cars, and maybe the current location of the survivors. I gather from this wonderful thread http://forums.autosp...ght=riley eudel
that it may not be an easy task.

To narrow the field, how about starting with the more well-known specials ? Here what I have got, mostly from Styles.

First group, the works Six offset single-seaters :

"offset 1"
First offset single-seater from Riley, body with straight flanks, narrow cowled nose, no head fearing. Raced by the works in 1935 and 1936.
Then ?

"offset 2"
Offset 2 and 3 are almost twins (wonderfull photo in Boddy's history of Brooklands,page 367 of my reprint edition), with a more "bulbous" body on the flank than offset 1. Offset 2 had independant front suspension (IFS) from build.
Raced by the works in 1936.
I think lent by the works to favored drivers for 1937.
Then ?

"offset 3"
As offset 2 (with a different nose), but without IFS.
Raced by the works in 1936.
1937 bought by E. Maclure and fitted with IFS and a regular Riley front radiator
Extensively raced by Maclure 1937-39 (did he own another one or can we safely put all of his results to this car credit ?)
1946 to "Blakes of Liverpool" for Mrs Darbishire
1948 to Geoff Richardson
1949 parts used in Richardson's RRA-Riley Special


Second goup, Hector Dobbs Riley specials :

Riley Nine Dobbs Special
1100cc engine
Raced by Dobbs in 1934
Then ?

Riley Six 1500 Dobbs Special
Raced by Dobbs in 1935 and again in 1936 for the 1500 class when not racing his 2 liter
1937 to W. Cotton ? or was it the 2 liter ?
1938 to Meyer in South Africa (winner of the 1938 SAf GP)
Then I guess more races in SAf ?

Riley Six 2 Liter Dobbs Special
Raced by Dobbs in 1936
(...)
1948 to Joe Kelly in Irland
1951 to C. Clairmonte (of Lotus Clairmont Special fame)
see Peter Ross's article http://www.simplesev...onte/partII.htm



Third Group, Dixon's Riley TT Six Specials (4/102 and 4/104) :

Raced with succes by the Dixon team 1935-36
Then I think one to South Africa (Jennings then Love ?)
The other one to Reg Parnell post war ?

So, here is what I have. I would be very gratefull for any "gap filling". Thanks in advance.

[Adam F]

A little more on one car....

Riley Six 2 Liter Dobbs Special
Raced by Dobbs in 1936
.......
1946 Roy Salvadori
1947 48 to Joe Kelly in Ireland
.......

Owned for many years by the Davie family, and sold at Bonham's 2008 Goodwood FoS Auction.

[David McKinney]

I know very little of the works cars, except that in the 1990s Keith Knight was racing in VSCC events a car called ERA-Riley, which used some parts from the ex-Maclure ifs car not used in the RRA (the original chassis and body being elsewhere in England)
Another non-ifs car was rebuilt as a TT Sprite and after the war went to South Africa, and was raced for many years, in a variety of confurations, and was still there in the 1990s. I believe it was sold around 1997, though whether or not that was out of South Africa I don’t know

My notes say the Dobbs 1500 car was raced by Billy Cotton from 1935-37 before going to South Africa, where I lose track of it around 1952.
Another 1500 - perhaps the original car - won a hillclimb in Ceylon (as was) in 1940
The 2-litre car is as described by Adam F

One of the Dixon Rileys passed from Reg Parnell to Cuth Harrison in 1945 and has been owned for many years by the Majzub family. It turns up quite regularly at the Goodwood Revival with Duncan Ricketts driving
The other Dixon car went to Australia in 1947 (and was raced by future Gold Star champion Alec Mildren in his formative years), then returned to the UK in the 1970s. It was raced for many years after that by Barrie and Mark Gillies, though possibly owned by Graham White
The Jennings/Love car was a one-off special built in South Africa

The White Riley, which is not mentioned in the original post, was also a regular particpant in 1980s/90s UK historic racing in the White/Gillies team

[Ray Bell]

Didn't Hope Bartlett have the Dixon Riley that came to Australia?

I think he was the one who transported it around the globe, and I have a Courier Mail photo of him in the car that was taken to publicise a Strathpine race meeting in the late forties:



From Mildren I have a notion that it went on to Dick Bland... but that period isn't well known to me and I wouldn't swear to that. John Medley mentions in his Bathurst book that the car rarely ran properly in its whole time in Australia, though raced her right into the sixties. He also says that Parnell and Harrison owned the car prior to its departure for Australia... did they have both cars?

[David McKinney]

It's very likely that Parnell owned both Dixon Rileys during the War, as he owned just about everything else. And it's conceivable that Harrison briefly owned the "Australian" one as well as the other. Unlikely though, as he was racing two other Rileys apart from his Dixon at that time.
John Snow was the bloke who imported it to Australia, in 1947, but sold it more or less straight away to Hope Bartlett and, yes, it went from Mildren to Bland, in the late '50s to Philip Bloom before being restored in the '60s by Philip Robinson and raced in historics. It came back to the UK in the '70s.

[ERault]

Thank you very much for all that.

Regarding the two Dixon Rileys, any info of the post-Dixon pre-Parnell years ? I would find strange that those successful cars were not raced before Parnell sold them post-war. I only have a couple of races in 1937 with Ch. Dodson. I am not sure if he bought one of the two cars, or if it was still in Dixon ownership (according to Styles, these two were close friends).

There is also a photo in Styles of a number 14 Dixon Riley, said to be Paul in the 1936 Rand Grand Prix. But there was no Rand GP in 1936, was it ? I think it is in fact 1937, and that is why I guessed the car stayed in South Africa after the event.

David, do you have more details on the two other Rileys raced by Cuth Harrison ?

[David McKinney]

On the Dixon cars, I have no record of any activity by either car between the end of 1937 and early 1947.
Dodson and Paul were both drivers of Dixon cars during Dixon's ownership. The Rand GP which Paul contested must indeed have been the 1937 race but the car then went back to England - no Dixon car lived in South Africa.
Meyer seems to have acquired his Dobbs car direct from the UK, as I have no record of it being in South Africa before 1938. The ex-works offset car in SA doesn't seem to have been there before 1948

As well as his Dixon Riley (and two ERAs), in 1947 Harrison raced a 1500 TT Sprite and a car described as an ex-Gerard 2.0 which I suppose could have been the same car with a different engine

[Graham Gauld]

Reference one of the Dixon Rileys I am just finishing the biography of that inveterate enthusiast Keith Shellenberg and back in his early racing days, around 1950, he was told about an old racing car on the roof of a garage in the north east of England. The car was one of the Dixon Rileys registration CDC 152. It was the first car I saw Keith race back in 1952.
I have attached a photo of Keith with the car at Bo'ness hill climb.
I believe it is now in Germany but would be interested in any of its history after Keith.

[bradbury west]

O/T somewhat.......Graham I will order my copy now. BTW with Mr Crabbe doing his own autobiog why not do one on the brilliant Neil Corner, who has done so much so a lot to tell. Another Gentleman Jack I suspect.
Roger Lund.

[David McKinney]

I would describe the Schellenberg car as an "ex-Dixon Riley" (a Brooklands Nine, IIRC) rather than a "Dixon Riley" of the type under discussion

[Graham Gauld]

You cad McKinney You have exposed my ignorance again !!!

As far as I am concerned Freddie Dixon raced it and won with it and don't worry it is described as a Brooklands Riley in the book

[Dutchy]

As far as I know the 1500 ex Dobbs car is still in Sri Lanka, owned by a Senator Obeseykre - I'm sure my spelling is incorrect.

Gerry Dick was the man who brought the Australian Dixon 2 litre back to the UK in the 1970s.

The car pictured at Bo'ness with Keith Schellenberg driving is surely THE Dixon Brooklands Nine raced for many years by Neville Farquhar? I realise it isn't exactly relevant to the thread.

[David McKinney]

Thanks for the Sri Lanka update
Yes, Gerry Dick raced the Dixon a couple of times in the 1970s
Not sure how many Brooklands Nines Dixon raced - I'm pretty sure Neville Farquhar's car tended to be described as "an ex-Dixon" car...

[Dutchy]

I take your point about the Dixon nines. Neville Farquhar's car was the only one I've seen with the long tail and believed it was his TT winning car.
My Father knew Neville quite well and remember him being very keen to acquire my father's ex Bluebelll Gibbs/Harry Heap Nine Special which had a Dixon eight port head on it which he wanted for the Dixon car which he was restoring at the time - this would have been about 1969 or 70.

[D-Type]

Can someone please explain the "Dixon Riley" situation. I know that Freddie Dixon developed his Riley cars to the extent that he sometimes beat the factory team cars. Did then go on to market cars as "Dixon Rileys", like "Brabham Vivas", "Brabham Heralds", "Mini Coopers", "Fiat Abarths", "Saab Carlsson", etc rather than simply the cars he had raced, ex-Dixon Rileys.

[Dutchy]

No he didn't. All the cars referred to as Dixon Rileys were raced by him.

[Hieronymus]

Vernon Berrange raced a Dobbs Special pre-WW2 in South Africa. Post-WW2 it was raced by Frank Brodie, then by Frank Hartley and even later by Conradie.

Buller Meyer purchased a Dobbs Riley from Thompson and Taylor. He raced it at the 1938 SAGP AND WON THE RACE. The car was raced a year later by Tom Scheckter.

After the war the car was bought by Frank Hoal. His brother, Edgar, had a the ex-Freddie DIXON Riley TT Sprite which was raced by James Clarke at the 3rd SAGP. Frank Hoal sold his Riley to Keith Stanley late in 1951. Then it was later sold to Dave Fettes, Neville Littleford, JJ Jacobi in Windhoek, South West Africa (Namibia). The car then "disappeared", although several stories are floating around of its "whereabout".

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Vernon Berrange raced a Dobbs Special pre-WW2 in South Africa. Post-WW2 it was raced by Frank Brodie, then by Frank Hartley and even later by Conradie.

Surely this was a Riley Nine?
A case of an "ex-Dobbs" Riley rather than one of the "Dobbs Rileys" - same as with the Dixon cars

[ERault]

I knew this was gonna get messy... So again with great help from Styles :

Dobbs had three specials that were in period called Dobbs Rileys. The first one was on a Nine Brooklands chassis and had, a least when new, a very streamlined body (for the time) which remind me a bit of some german cars seen on the Avus (photo in Style p86 for those with the book).

As Meyer had the 1500 Dobbs Special and the 2 liter Dobbs Special was with Kelly in Ireland post-war, that first Dobbs Special must have been Berrange's car.

That means you guys have found almost complete period history for the three Dobbs specials, the small gaps being the Nine Special between Dobbs himself and Berrange, and the 2 liter between Dobbs (end of 1936) and Kelly in 1948.


Now for Dixon. He raced a lot of Rileys, some straight from the works, others he modified into Dixon Rileys. My first post was about his two last and most famous cars, which are virtually twins and to my eyes most beautiful. That's Ray Bell's pic. But he had two more specials before this two.

The first one was on a Brooklands Nine chassis, registred CDC 152. That's the car Graham linked with Shellenberg (is that the one who raced a Cobra in the mid-60s ?). The other, more streamlined, became famous as "Red Mongrel". I don't think anyone brought this one up so far. I think that's all for the Dixon Rileys. The 1932 Tourist Trophy winner was a "regular" TT Sprite which happened to be driven by Dixon (which does not mean I am not interested to learn about it).

One last word to say that my first listing must not prevent anyone adding news on others racing Rileys. Lots of these cars had interesting lives long after they left the factory or the hands of their special builders.

[D-Type]

I don't have Challenge me the race any more (thank you mother for having a clearout!). In it I think that Hawthorn said that one of the two Imps and the Sprite that he raced were ex-Dixon.

[David McKinney]

I think both the Imp and the Sprite were ex-works
But I believe Leslie had an ex-Dixon Nine before the war

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by David McKinney

Surely this was a Riley Nine?
A case of an "ex-Dobbs" Riley rather than one of the "Dobbs Rileys" - same as with the Dixon cars

Info from my previous post is based on Frank Hoal's recollections.

[fines]

Ahem, gentlemen, what about the "White Rocket Riley", the "Gritz-Riley", or the famous Mel Leighton and Jules Furslew Rileys? :cat:

[David McKinney]

Would they not be US-built Brett Riley derivatives rather than Coventry-based?

[Dutchy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ERault
[B]
The first one was on a Brooklands Nine chassis, registred CDC 152. That's the car Graham linked with Shellenberg (is that the one who raced a Cobra in the mid-60s ?). The other, more streamlined, became famous as "Red Mongrel". I don't think anyone brought this one up so far. I think that's all for the Dixon Rileys. The 1932 Tourist Trophy winner was a "regular" TT Sprite which happened to be driven by Dixon (which does not mean I am not interested to learn about it).


Surely that was CDC 152 not a TT Sprite? They didn't appear until 1935

[Vitesse2]

That was my impression too. Dixon bought the TT car from Victor Gillow - after some tough negotiations - and drove it home from London. Gillow had apparently raced it in 1930. (See Dr Birmingham's book on Riley Competition Cars - story retold in the recent Dixon biography by David Mason.)

'Red Mongrel' had a Dixon-prepared Riley engine, but was built up on what was essentially an Arrol-Aster chassis (Freddie just happened to have a few chassis members hanging about ....)

[fines]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Would they not be US-built Brett Riley derivatives rather than Coventry-based?

It's George Riley, but otherwise you're correct, of course!;)

Nevertheless, still Racing Rileys, as per thread title...

[David McKinney]

I was confusing George Riley with someone else - not, as it happens, NZ driver Brett Riley, but US driver Riley Brett who I always presumed (without really knowing) was the chap who built the Brett engines (but presumably not Riley engines...)

[fines]

I thought so ;), but he's no connection to Morton-Brett, either! Riley Brett was a master mechanic (and an occasional driver, too, now that you mention it), who was involved in many US speed projects, ranging from late teens (Richards Specials) to early forties (Sampson Motors) minimum. Best known probably for his involvement with Frank Lockhart.

[Squire Straker]

The Riley Red Mongrel was in Ulster from 1937 and remained here until it's last race appearance at Ballyclare in 46. Subsequently taken to England in an attempt to sell it at an auction but returned here thereafter and broken -up.
SS

[ERault]

While Fines has widened the field of investigation a bit more than I anticipated, I have indeed to correct myself : Dutchy and Vitesse2 are right, Dixon's car in the 1932 TT was of course CDC 152 (the car DNF). The TT Sprite I was talking about was the 1935 winner.

To Squire Straker : do you have details on who raced Red Mongrel in Ulster ?

[Squire Straker]

Yes.
SS

[ERault]

Good for you, then.

[Dutchy]

Without wishing to appear rude, what relevance does that seriously ugly special have to a thread about works Rileys?

[david venables]

Some random and peripheral thoughts. The Dobbs 2-litre was rebodied by Monaco Engineering in 1947/8 before it went to Kelly. It was a bulbous two seater which had resemblances to the Peter Clark Vanguard-HRG (body again by Monaco). When Clive Clairmonte bought it back to England the engine had been blown up. The body put on by the Davey family, or the previous owner, was a replica of the original.
Harrison raced a Dixon 2-litre in 1946. He won a race at the first post-war meeting at Gransden. By 1947, as David McK says he had a TT Sprite with a 2-litre engine. Harrison raced this in 1947 and 1948; he pranged when leading the 1948 Manx Cup in the IoM. The car went to Gordon Shillito in 1949, who won several races with it in 1949/50. He then retired from the sport but kept the car for many years until it went to Colin Readey who I believe still has it. Somewhere there is a vague thought that it was originally AVC 20.
Jack Fairman raced a 2-litre in 1949. He had a huge prang at Blandford which involved Shillito. The car was badly damaged and I believe he broke it up. I heard the engine went to Leslie Hawthorn. I am not sure which car Fairman had. It looked like the works car driven by Percy Maclure in the 1935 BRDC 500. This was not the car which later evolved into the ERA-Riley. I have an idea that Clive Windsor-Richards raced in it in 1938/39. I wait for the Riley experts to shoot my facts to pieces.

[J Polson]

Great to see racing Rileys being appreciated. Having been lucky enough to race both TT Sprite and Racing MPH they really are fantastic cars and so under appreciated.

A few ideas on what has been discussed- The TT Sprite Cuth Harrison raced on the Isle of man was fitted with a modernised radiator cowl similar to that fitted to R8C his ERA it retained this when raced by Shillito, at around the same time Harrison owned the ex Arthur Dobson TT Sprite AVC 17 which retained a more standard appearance.
The Riley raced by Jack Fairman was built in the forties by Fairman and Freddie Dixon out of a rotten six cylinder Riley saloon (starting a great tradition!) fitted with one of Dixons fantastic Riley engines it made a very quick albeit shortlived F2 car.
The Dixon Riley which went to Australia I remember hearing was never as quick as its track recorded suggested due to Dixons very trick cams having been removed before it left the U.K. It certainly had a long racing career in Oz however at one stage while in Dick Bland's ownership being fitted with the IFS from his famous racing Delahaye.

Looking forward to hearing more about these fascinating cars and the characters behind them.

[david venables]

Interesting about the Fairman car. There cannot have been much of the saloon in it, as it had the big MPH brakes and the frame looks similar to a TT Sprite. Perhaps it was a Dixon spare. He had a huge store of racing Riley bits at Reigate. Jim Dinsdale, the camshaft expert worked for him in the late '40s and was able to get a lot of bits which went into the ex-Maclure Brooklands which he then owned and never rebuilt. It is now raced by Alan Clear. Jim said Dixon was a hard bargainer and wanted top price for everything. The Fairman body tail either came from, or was similar to an Ulster Imp.

[J Polson]

That was Fairman's explanation of where the car came from which I read in an interview I think in a VSCC Bulletin. From memory Fairman's car was rather more high-built than a TT Sprite, but I could well be wrong, I would have thought when creating this car Dixon could have raided his spares stash and used the remains of the saloon to fill in the gaps.
As regards the Geoff Richardson ERA Riley I have always understood that this evolved from the famous pre war Percy Mclure Riley special which in its final incarnation had the ERA engine from the White Riley which Mclure also owned.
The car which Clive Windsor Richards raced before the war was described by him as ex Dobbs.

[david venables]

Yes. The ERA-Riley evolved from the Girling ifs car which Maclure raced in 1938 and 1939, eventually with the ex-White Riley engine (or perhaps finally with a full ERA engine). I think once Nuffield took over Riley Maclure was almost on his own, so any constraints about using a full ERA engine would have gone. When Maclure died in 1944, Reg Parnell bought the ERA-Riley, adding it to his huge racing car collection, and in 1946/47 it went to the Reece brothers who owned Blakes in Liverpool and Sheila Darbyshire raced it in 1947. It went to Richardson in 1948 who developed it into the RRA. I am useless at posting photos, but I have two of the Fairman car and comparing the chassis to the normal TT Sprite, the frame looks similar.

[Dutchy]

Have a look at the photo on post 13 http://forums.autosp...threadid=106162

[J Polson]

I dont think all that much of the ERA/Riley was used in the RRA since its appearance was entirely different, having a chassis and rear suspension designed by Richardson and manufactured by Rubery Owen. The ERA/Riley re-appeared a few years ago in the form used postwar by the Reeces' and Richardson, owned and driven in VSCC events by Keith Knight, who from memory also owned the remains of the RRA.
As regards Percy Maclure I would be interested to hear more about his wartime exploits since all I have ever been able to glean is that he died of exhaustion having worked himself to death endevouring to complete his wartime duties. He was clearly a very talented driver and engineer, although I think some of the other Riley works drivers were of the oppinion that Maclure was favoured as regards equipment, due to his father Gustav being a very senior engineer with the company.
I have no clue how to post images here but would be very interested to see any photos of the Fairman car since it is somewhat mysterious and due to its short life span there seem to be few photos taken of it.
Was the TT Sprite in SA the car which the Works had taken out for Kay Petre to race in a pre war SA Grand Prix? I think this car was re-engined sometime during the 1950s.

[David McKinney]

I may be out of my depth here, but I think there were two 1500 ex-TT Rileys in SA. The first one was racing there the year before Mrs Petre's visit, and the other was imported in 1948

[J Polson]

I am afraid I know little of SA racing and had simply assumed that they would be one and the same car, that presumably would indicate that the Kay Petre car returned to the U.K after the race. Would one of those cars which went to SA by any chance be the offset singleseater bodied version which Rodney Greene used in VSCC events a few years ago? I seem to remeber this having spent most of its life in South Africa.

[David McKinney]

I'm fairly sure that at least one of them was rebodied as a single-seater, though whether it came back to the UK I do not know

[Hieronymus]

Ian Fraser Jones bought the ex-Gerard Riley in 1948 and brought it to South Africa in the same year. He raced the car in 1949.

[ERault]

Bob Gerard had (at the very least) 2 racing Rileys, both TT Sprite. He first bought AVC 20 in 1937, then bought CWK 171 (late works car) to race alongside. It seems he kept both a least until the war. If Mr Venables recollection of Shillito's car being AVC 20 is correct, then Fraser-Jones may have brought CWK 171 to South Africa.

[bradbury west]

[i]Originally posted by ERault
Bob Gerard had (at the very least) 2 racing Rileys, both TT Sprite. ....then Fraser-Jones may have brought CWK 171 to South Africa. [/B]

Apologies for not checking sooner
Vintage Racecar November 2006 has a lengthy and, to me, comprehensive, article on Frazer Jones penned by Glen Smale.
"... later in 1948 on a trip to England, Ian purchased the ex Bob Gerrard works Riley car.....The Riley was a comprehensive racing outfit with a single seater body as well as a two-seater sports body and came with a 1.5litre ERA engine sans blower..............before selling it to the late Doug Duff."
The single photo shows it with a cowled nose but no sign of a reg number.
Hope that helps.
Roger Lund

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by david venables
I am useless at posting photos, but I have two of the Fairman car and comparing the chassis to the normal TT Sprite, the frame looks similar.

Plse check PMs David...

[J Polson]

To the best of my knowledge Bob Gerard had four racing Rileys which could be described as TT Sprites or derivatives. The two TT Sprites previously mentioned, which as with his ERA racing cars post war one was kept for spares and as a reserve the other being the primary racing car, alongside these Gerard ran a Sprite with TT Sprite engine and many other competition modifications for his wife Joan, this was used by her both before and after the war. Seperate and apart from these Gerard acquired one of the works offset singleseaters when Rileys went into receivership, which would have had an essentially TT Sprite chassis and mechanicals, he ran this before the war as both sports and racing car. This would appear to be the car which Ian Frazer Jones purchased and took over to SA fitted with a six cylinder engine.

[ERault]

Fantastic ! So it would be what I called "offset 1" or "offset 2" in the very first post. There is indeed a photo of Gerard in one the ex-works offset single-seater at the 1938 BRDC 192 in Styles (p134) but I was not sure he owned the car. As to wether it was offset 1 or 2, I kind of lost track : much of their bodywork appeared to be removable : several tails, several radiator cowlings. It seems it had a solid front axle, but I am not sure the IFS car (offset 2) kept it by 1938...