52 replies to this topic

[RTH]

The only GH2 is part of a motor sport auction next month.

http://www.simonchar...86/Default.aspx




Hill GH2


contrast the above with the Hill Shadow DN1 we saw run at Silverstone this last summer at the historic festival

[Kingsleyrob]

I can't recall being a huge admirer of the mid 70s F1 cars, having been brought up on the 60s cigar tubes. But....that Shadow looks quite delicious.

Any chance of an international TNF whip round to buy us the GH2??

Rob

[fines]

I'll give it my usual tuppence.

[alansart]

As it's local I'm tempted to go and see what's on offer.

It doesn't say where and on what day they are running it.

[f1steveuk]

I would quite happily own either (although my bank manager probably wouldn't be so happy!)

I actually think Andy Smallman's design is quite pretty, in a functional sort of way, and the DN1 was always a stunner, but I don't recall the forward running roll hoop support bars, are they original, or after the car started to pull itself to pieces??

[Mallory Dan]

Shouldn't the Shadow have a massive airbox thingy??

[David Beard]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
and the DN1 was always a stunner, but I don't recall the forward running roll hoop support bars, are they original, or after the car started to pull itself to pieces??

They seem to be there in this snap I took at Silverstone...



I wonder if when they put the airbox back it will be as bad a fit as it was then!

Actually, I notice some of the lower body work around the engine is missing, as well as the airbox, Dan.

[alansart]

Originally posted by Alan Cox

Interesting, Alan, absolutely no reference anywhere on their website as to date and venue - not even on the entry form for the sale.

I think it's at the Simon Charles Auction Centre in Ashton under Lyne.

Ironically an old friend, who I've not seen for years, is involved in this. I've made contact and she's sent me a News Release.

General viewing is on 17th Feb. The Transporter and Motor Home sale is on Feb 18th and the Race and Rally car sale is on Feb 19th. Entry is by Catalogue, which is £15 but allows 2 people entry, either by pre order or on the door.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan

Shouldn't the Shadow have a massive airbox thingy??

That was the Lola, Dan



Does anyone know which other teams were present at Ricard that fateful test in November '75?

I believe Lotus were there, but I'm not sure about any others...

[P0wderf1nger]

Originally posted by Twin Window


Does anyone know which other teams were present at Ricard that fateful test in November '75?

I believe Lotus were there, but I'm not sure about any others...

Brabham were there with their Alfa-engined car, and Tyrrell with their 6-wheeler. It was around then that JYS was testing GP cars and the Autosport of 27 Nov 75 mentioned him driving the 6-wheeler. The accident happened the following Saturday night, 29 Nov.

BTW, if anyone out there has any photographs of the mid-Nov Paul Ricard tests, and has any shots of an old boy in the Hill pits, it's Amherst Villiers, who was tinkering around with Hill's Nicholson-McLaren Cosworth engines, and whose biography I'm writing, and I'd love to see them!

Rgds

Paul

[MCS]

Originally posted by David Beard

Is that Andy Smallman on the left?

[P0wderf1nger]

Originally posted by MCS


Is that Andy Smallman on the left?

I'm looking at pictures of Andy Smallman (designer) and Ray Brimble (team mgr), and I don't think it's either.

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by David Beard


They seem to be there in this snap I took at Silverstone...



I wonder if when they put the airbox back it will be as bad a fit as it was then!

Actually, I notice some of the lower body work around the engine is missing, as well as the airbox, Dan.

They are indeed there! Did the UOP cars also have these forward facing tubes? I recall an ex Hill mechanic telling me that the Embassy car developed many extra plates/gussets/tubes etc as the tub was either made from an aluminium that was too soft/thin, and slowly broke up during the season, NGH once stating that the handling at the begining of a race was quite different to later on, when the geometry would "self adjust".

[elansprint72]

This seems a rather odd auction to be handled by a suburban back-street general auction house; F1 cars, team support vehicles and motor-homes. Presumably these items have been kept together as a set since they were new(ish)? Anyone know where they have been over the last 30 years?
As this is only 40 minutes drive from where I live, I'm curious to know if these vehicles have been stuck in a barn near me- why else would they be for sale at this unlikely location? No indication of condition, or even if the sale is for a job-lot or individual items; in fact the wording of the "advert" looks like it might have been put together by a 17-year old temp. :
Interesting.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by P0wderf1nger

Brabham were there with their Alfa-engined car, and Tyrrell with their 6-wheeler. It was around then that JYS was testing GP cars and the Autosport of 27 Nov 75 mentioned him driving the 6-wheeler. The accident happened the following Saturday night, 29 Nov.

Thanks, Paul

So just the four teams present then. Interesting.

[bigears]

Found this article:


Motoring News 28th October 1987.

It was later sold for £19,000.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by alansart


Ironically an old friend, who I've not seen for years, is involved in this. I've made contact and she's sent me a News Release.

You mean Val Adaway Alan? She told me she was involved but the main mover is Graeme Glew (ex-Touraco, Formula Woman, PSM etc).

[alansart]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

You mean Val Adaway Alan? She told me she was involved but the main mover is Graeme Glew (ex-Touraco, Formula Woman, PSM etc).

Yes. I may go along and have a look, if I'm not too busy.

[Paul Hurdsfield]

This was in the Manchester Evening News a couple of weeks ago, am I allowed to do this

[Bonde]

I'm looking at a photo of DN1 no.1 under construction - it does have the forward roll hoop bracing. On Hill's car, the radiators/inlets were later in the season re-arranged, more exposed and at an angle in front of the rear wheels, and part of the engine cover was cut away, the wing mounting and oil cooler arrangements were changed, too. Apparently the car photographed at Silverstone last summer has been restored to something approaching the original configuration, but not quite.

Wasn't that simple white-and-red Embassy livery just clean and elegant? It would have flattered any car, and the DN1 already looked gorgeous in UOP black.

[Macca]

The Shadow was auctioned at the first Goodwood Festival of Speed in 1993 - I believe it was part of the collection of the late Antony Mayman who was a fan of Graham Hill - and was still as raced and unrestored.

Paul M

[JohnB]

Originally posted by Paul Hurdsfield
This was in the Manchester Evening News a couple of weeks ago, am I allowed to do this

Another, longer article in the MEN tonight - it says the auction is tomorrow.

[Stephen W]

Setting off to the auction in the next 15 minutes - will report back!

[alansart]

Originally posted by Stephen W
Setting off to the auction in the next 15 minutes - will report back!

I'm going as well - an unofficial TNF gathering?

[Paul Hurdsfield]

I'm at work : But Ashton's just 10 minutes up the road, hmmmnn ;)
I'm sure I can find something to measure somewhere nearby ;)

[funformula]

I´m a bit confused about the 1986 Ferrari F1 offered in this auction
It looks very much to be a 1985 Tyrrell-Renault in Ferrari-livery to me.
But looking at the nose of the car I´m unsure.
Any other thoughts???

[alansart]

It was an 86 Ferrari 156, ex Albereto (with signature on the back) but minus engine and box internals. Basically a show car.

It seems the majority of lots were over priced for the current market as very few met their expected price and were sold as "provisional".

The F1 Hill looked neat. An interesting design with a very low chassis. I wonder how good it would have been. It's estimate was £200,000 to £220,000 but only reached £185,000.




This 73/74 BMW "Batmobile" was interesting reaching £170,000. £20k to £30 less than estimated.




The ex Richard Piper C2 Argo reached about £85,000 less than the £100k to £130k expected.




I seem to have seen this Lola Buick advertised before and went for about £40,000. £20k down.




This lovely little Elva went for about £35,000 again short. (SW who's standing behind has the prices written down).




There were a few oddballs there. This Capri 3100 was converted from a road going RS2600 in 2002 so is basically a copy but still got £100.000, although £30k short of it's estimate.




Colin McRae's road going Radical achieved £30,000, £10k less than it's estimate.




An interesting affair. The organisers made a few errors in descriptions as Steve Wilkinson will no doubt comment on. Spares packages were withdrawn and several cars failed to show but it made an interesting few hours out of the office

[Stephen W]

As far as I could tell only the following cars sold:

1) An Original Speedway Car - Lot 201 - £380.00 (this was a "project" and looked like it!)
2) 1966 TR4A - Lot 202 - £11,000.00 (this is the ex Ronnie Clayton Hillclimb/Sprint car)
3) BMW 2002Ti - Lot 203 - £11,000.00 (as raced in the Top Hat series)
4) BMW 2002Ti - Lot 204 - £6,200.00 (this was an unraced 'trackday' car that had a badly fitting door and a lot of rust)
5) Pilbeam MP22/02 Hart 2.4 litre - Lot 210 - £23,000.00 (originally listed as a Brabham BT38/40 but corrected by auction house after it was pointed out to them it wasn't a Brabham)

Everything else saw the hammer fall on a "provisional bid". This meant that the auction house would ask the vendor if they would accept the bid or not as well as asking the prospective purchaser if they would raise their bid!

A lot of the 'memorabilia' also failed to reach its reserve so the hammer went down as a provisional bid. A collection of FOUR unprogrammed ECU's failed to even muster a bid even though there was No Reserve.

[funformula]

Was this so called "Ferrari" sold at the auction and what price was offered?
I´m pretty much sure now that it is a Tyrrell 014 with modified nose-cover to look a bit more like a 1986 Ferrari.
There are many old F1 and F3000 cars out there in Ferrari livery, to attract more attention at exibitions etc.
There is nothing wrong about this, but to offer these cars as "original Ferraris" to reach a better price is

[alansart]

Originally posted by funformula
Was this so called "Ferrari" sold at the auction and what price was offered?
I´m pretty much sure now that it is a Tyrrell 014 with modified nose-cover to look a bit more like a 1986 Ferrari.
There are many old F1 and F3000 cars out there in Ferrari livery, to attract more attention at exibitions etc.
There is nothing wrong about this, but to offer these cars as "original Ferraris" to reach a better price is

I think your right. It looks nothing like an 86 Ferrari!

[ralt12]

Did lot 15 (Cosworth cam covers) sell?

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by ralt12
Did lot 15 (Cosworth cam covers) sell?

Lot 15 on the day was a rather naff sculpture. The Magnesium DFZ F1 Cam Covers recieved a bid of £200 for the 12 items and the bid was deemed 'provisional'. The "XD" Champcar cam covers x2 (Lot 14 on the day) recieved a bid of £160 and was again deemed 'provisional'.

Below are a couple of photos from the day:


The Hill GH2 air intake complete with Damon Hill's signature. This was bid up to £185,000.00 failing to reach its reserve.


The so-called Brabham BT38/40 which was redfined correctly as the Pilbeam MP22/02. Despite having a 2.4 litre Hart engine and a Hewland FG gearbox the auctioneer still referred to it as an F2 car! This sold for £23,000.00 which I thought was a bit strong!

[fines]

Any ideas on why the 'Batmobile' was so steep?

[Ian Smith - Diz]

Anybody know what the 7.5 ton Mercedes 2 car Transporter went for? Or if it went?

[alansart]

Originally posted by funformula
I´m a bit confused about the 1986 Ferrari F1 offered in this auction
It looks very much to be a 1985 Tyrrell-Renault in Ferrari-livery to me.
But looking at the nose of the car I´m unsure.
Any other thoughts???

It certainly looks more Tyrrell shape than Ferrari. The roll hoop doesn't seem to belong to either!





Tyrrell 14 - http://f1-facts.com/gallery/d/2559

Ferrari 156 - http://f1-facts.com/...ew/product/1727

Whatever it is - bargepole and not touching it spring to mind!

[alansart]

Originally posted by fines
Any ideas on why the 'Batmobile' was so steep?

It's a nice looking car with supposedly a bit of history. Very restored, but as yet it doesn't have FIA HTP papers. Somebody obviously liked it.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by fines
Any ideas on why the 'Batmobile' was so steep?

The Estimate was £190,000 to £200,00 which seemed to indicate a Reserve of £190,000 or thereabouts. The bid price was £177,000 which was classed as provisional. According to the catalogue ............

"... was originally built in 1973 by the Faltz Alpina team, the car was sold to Benedens Tuning Company, and raced in the German and european Touring Car Championships in 1973, 1974 and 1975," the car was later "exported to the USA where it was upgraded to Group 5 specification and raced in the IMSA sports car series for a number of years". It was "fully restored with photographic restoration to Group 2 specification, including a rebuilt 3.5L engine with Kugelfisher Fuel Injection,"

The Group 5 updates and bodywork were included but the description concluded with the comment "FIA HTP papers applied for."

As Alan says a nice looking car but I wasn't 100% convinced that some of the bodywork was original.

[fines]

... and four times the price of an Indy Car!

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by fines
... and four times the price of an Indy Car!

The Indy Car didn't sell either! :

[Rob]

Originally posted by alansart
It certainly looks more Tyrrell shape than Ferrari. The roll hoop doesn't seem to belong to either!

It looks a lot more like a Tyrrell. It doesn't look much like a Ferrari at all!

[alansart]

Originally posted by Stephen W


As Alan says a nice looking car but I wasn't 100% convinced that some of the bodywork was original.

Having consulted the 70's saloon car bible, it's not that far out!

http://homepage.mac..../1973 Cars.html

[Stephen W]

Above: the "Original Speedway Car" although a bit puzzled by the 4 cylinder motorbike engine that was fitted!


Above: according to the Catalogue this is a 1986 F1 Ferrari 156 rolling chassis; it carried an Estimate of £50,000 but the bidding only reached £15,000 which I thought was ridiculously high!


Above: the 2004 Tampolli LMP2-675 Le Mans which had an Estimate of £16,000 to £20,000 but only reached £14,500 - not bad considering there was no engine, no shocks and just a gearbox casing. There was a rather large spares package which include 23 spare wheels (some with tyres mounted).

[Thundersports]

The Argo didn't sell...............

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Thundersport
The Argo didn't sell...............

With a £100,000 to £130,000 estimate and a top bid of £84,000 it wasn't any wonder!

As for the Riley & Scott it fell short of its £80,000 to £85,000 Estimate thanks in no small part to the withdrawl of the spares package - it was however bid up to £62,000!

[Rob]

Originally posted by Stephen W
Above: according to the Catalogue this is a 1986 F1 Ferrari 156 rolling chassis; it carried an Estimate of £50,000 but the bidding only reached £15,000 which I thought was ridiculously high!

I'm amazed that the auctioneers didn't do the research before selling it. It took me less than a minute to find a picture of the real car on the internet and it doesn't look anything like what they've just sold.

[P0wderf1nger]

Bonhams it ain't...

[elansprint72]

As I said back in post #14, a very odd affair all round.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Rob


I'm amazed that the auctioneers didn't do the research before selling it. It took me less than a minute to find a picture of the real car on the internet and it doesn't look anything like what they've just sold.

See Post #42 - the so called Ferrari didn't sell falling £35,000 short of its Estimate! :yawn:

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by funformula
Was this so called "Ferrari" sold at the auction and what price was offered?
I´m pretty much sure now that it is a Tyrrell 014 with modified nose-cover to look a bit more like a 1986 Ferrari.
There are many old F1 and F3000 cars out there in Ferrari livery, to attract more attention at exibitions etc.
There is nothing wrong about this, but to offer these cars as "original Ferraris" to reach a better price is

It was indeed a Tyrrell 014, modified (loads of filler in the nose, different wings etc) by Roger Cowman to look like a Ferrari.
Between Roger doing the work and it ending up in Scotland it aquired a Ferrari chassis plate - no doubt if Ferrari saw it they would have consigned it to the crusher....

[Mistron]

is this the car which was being offered for hire as a 'simulator' for corporate hire by a scottish outfit a year or two ago?