43 replies to this topic

[MOTORSPORT RESORT]

Hello everyone....

Been off this forum for a few years, and wonder if anyone can assist to help me with information on a Formula 2 racer built in England in 1952 by Horace A. Richards known as the H.A.R-Riley. I understand the car would have used a front engine Riley 15/6 built to 2.0 liter F2 specs, with Wilson pre-selector gearbox, and 6 Amal pre-mono block carbs.

I'm trying to find any photos and details of this racecar...
***anything will help...

[Graham Gauld]

This photograph taken at Turnberry in 1951 shows Horace Richards, nearest the camera, in his HAR-Riley. In front of him is Manduca with his Alta.

[MOTORSPORT RESORT]

Hello Graham...(it's been a while...how are you?)

That's an interesting photo?
I always thought the H.A.R. Riley was built in 1952 not 1951. I understand the first outing for this F2 racer was at Goodwood 1952 Lavant Cup...I think he built 5 chassis.

[Neil Smith]

MOTORSPORT RESORT

The HAR now resides in Brooklands Museum in Weybridge and has done for several years. The car is heavily modified from its original spec. It now has a 3.4 litre Jaguar engine and has been rebodied in a sort of generic late 1950s style. The rear suspension, which was originally wishbone and torsion bar (and interchangeable with the front suspension ) has been replaced by a de Dion rear end with coil spring/damper units. As far as I can remember it also has inboard rear brakes. It is now painted red instead of the original blue. The main chassis frame and front suspension look to be original; a good source of info about the original version of the car can be found in the Autocar issue of 28 March 1952 where there is a full page description and several photos. There is also a photo in Formula 2 by Gregor Grant on page 112 and some info in Grand prix Cars 1945-65 by Mike Lawrence on pages 162-3.

I think there have been previous posts on TNF - probably worth a BB Search.

Hope this helps

Neil

[Geoff E]

As Jenks put it-

"A nicely made and well-proportioned car, the H.A.R. was not very fast, Richards being quite content to drive quietly round at the end of the field, enjoying himself regardless of the rest of the competitors."

[Mistron]

Coys sold a sportsracing HAR a couple of years ago, built by a friend of H Richards in Scotland, based on an F2 chassis and fitted with a Daimler V8 and a Cotal .

It was previously owned by John Guyatt, who bought it from the guy who built it. Not sure who has it now though.

It was a hoot to drive!

[MOTORSPORT RESORT]

I understand that Horace A. Richards a engineer specialising in Riley engines built 5 Formula 2 chassis in the early 1950's, one was used to build the 2 seat sportscar with the Daimler V8. I wonder where the other 3 chassis went to?
Does any one have any more photos of this F2 H.A.R. in it's early days?
I also hear that Horace A. Richards might have made a rear engined Formula Junior with again a Riley engine. Not too sure that information is 100% correct?

[Mistron]

When I was writing the catalogue description for the sportscar, I met Dennis Ramsey, the scottish enthusiast who built it, and from what I recall, the other cars had a Riley, an ERA (riley based) and one had a Gypsy Moth engine (!) I think this car was planned for use in the Brighton speed trials.


Doesn't Julian Mazjub own one of the F2 cars? or is that the car at Brooklands?

will see if I can find any pics of the sportscar, or any other info

Paul Chudeki did a track test in the car - perhaps for Octane?

[Mistron]

Amazing what you find using google - here is a link to the description of the sportscar.

I had forgotten that one of the chassis was fitted with a Bugatti engine - Dennis couldn't recall what type though.

hope it helps.

http://www.classicca....php/carno/4053

no luck on photos at the moment I'm afraid.

[Mistron]

Originally posted by Mistron

Paul Chudeki did a track test in the car - perhaps for Octane?

Issue 12, June '04. Again, on the sportscar, but it might be of some use.

and here is a link to earlier discussions on HARs (found using the search BB function at the top of the page)

http://forums.autosp...9&highlight=HAR

[Dick Willis]

Is this the car that was the HAR Riley ? Pic taken at Mallala SA in 1983, it was in Australia in the seventies and eighties and was at the time thought to be a HWM but later this proved to be incorrect.

[MOTORSPORT RESORT]

http://www.tops.co.n...ed/malloryc.jpg

Found this photo dated as Mallory Park 6th August 1956, and the car behind is Horace Richards' HAR Riley. The nose looks totally different than the red car...

[Ted Walker]

I have a few period shots available. give me a call or E Mail .

[Ted Walker]

I think that the car under discussion here is with a collection in the "Midlands" and has been for a long time. The owner has bought a few photos from me in recent years

[Neil Smith]

The car in Dick Wills' excellent photo seems to be the car which now resides in Brooklands Museum, complete with revised rear suspension and, judging from the exhausts, a Jaguar engine. The nose however looks a little different, but I'm sure it's the same car.

Neil

[Mistron]

reading the Octane article last night, according to Dennis Ramsey, one of the cars was fitted with a 3.4 litre Jaguar engine, so that would make sense.

So, by my reconning that is Jaguar, Riley, Bugatti (3.3 litre - type 57?)Tiger Moth and Daimler engines fitted to the 5 cars, with one of them subsequently fitted with an ERA engine.

[MOTORSPORT RESORT]

Hi Mistron...
I think you would have to count the Jaguar 3.8 and Riley 2.0 as one car. I did hear that the Bugatti version was built in the persons living room and they had to knock down walls to get it out.
That F2 / H.A.R was sold to a Bugatti enthusiast just for the engine, and the car is now in bits in some lock-up garage. I don't think it ever raced?
I wonder what 2.0 liter Bugatti engine it was?, as it would have been unsupercharged to meet the F2 regs...

[Dutchy]

I remember seeing the original F2 HAR taking part in a Riley parade at a VSCC Silverstone meeting in the 1970s. It was owned at the time by Colin Clifford who was heavily into Riley V8s (and Autovias) at the time, and raced his self built C.C.S. The HAR was painted dark red and looked exactly as it did in its heyday so I suggest the Jaguar engined car is another chassis.

The Jaguar engined single seater in Dick Wills's post is to the best of my knowledge an Australian built car which I think I'm correct in saying found its way into the Donington Collection but was sold off with some of their surplus cars several years back.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Dutchy
The Jaguar engined single seater in Dick Wills's post is to the best of my knowledge an Australian built car which I think I'm correct in saying found its way into the Donington Collection but was sold off with some of their surplus cars several years back.

Australian modified rather than Australian-built
It was in fact one of the original HARs which became Bertie Bradnack's Woden and later one of Jim Berry's ERA Specials. It was subsequently bought by a visiting Australian who took it home and, believing it to be an HWM, modified the bodywork to reflect his view. By this time it had a Jaguar engine and was raced in Australia as an HWM-Jaguar.
It did get to Donington, and I believe you're right in saying it's been sold on

[Dutchy]

Thanks David. I had no idea it was one of Jim Berry's ERA Specials (I assumed there was only one) and often wondered what happened to it, or them.

[MOTORSPORT RESORT]

Hello David,

When you mention that it started life as one of the H.A.R Formula 2 racers, are you referring to a H.A.R. that Horace built originally with a Riley 2.0 liter engine?

I thought he only built one car for himself and sold off the other 4 chassis...
Did he build more than one car?

Interesting how these threads can go in different directions...one minute you think it was a backyard special made in Australia with a Jaguar lump installed, then it's a original F2 car built by the designer...

[David McKinney]

Sorry not to make myself clear, MR
As I understand it, Richards built an HAR for himself and a replica (or perhaps a kit of parts) for Bradnack
The only other HAR I know about is the later sportscar, originally with Daimler V8 engine and Swallow Doretti body, and subsequently owned - as mentioned above - by John Guyatt

[Dick Willis]

Thanks David for your background on the car ex Aust, as you know there was a lot of conjecture regarding its origin during its stay here and in fact it may never have been granted an Australian log book.

[racingreen]

Ted is correct.....the original car is in a private collection.
The red car pictured is all together another car, and a third HAR was Bugatti engined, built by Stubberfield in his living room, with bodywork from Alta GP1 and did race and sprint in the 1950s.

DRW.

[ensign14]

Given that Horace Richards entered a number of decent non-title events, is there any reason why he didn't enter the British GP? Or did he try?

[terry mcgrath]

In our book "The Jaguar XK in Australia elmgreen and mcgrath pub 1985 we have a sort of history of the red car pictured in this thread.
The history was always a little confused pre 1970 but we note that the australian car was probably purchased from richard smith of Brighton by Gavin Sandford-Morgan in october 1970. It did have a jaguar engine fitted with XK150 head V1620-8
It is also listed in john Blandens book historic race cars in australia
terry

[lazzHAR]

Hi folks, i have not had a look on the forum for some time but i was pleasantly surprised to find this thread.
Especially the pic posted by David Willis of the car at Mallala as it is one i have not seen before. A lot of info about the car has been posted so i will add to it.
In '84 the car was purchased from the museum by Noel Roscrow, the motor was changed to a 3.8 xk unit as the orig. 3.4 was very tired. this was done in '84 and the car was run in various events around the country until '88 when it underwent a 2 year restoration which included the making of a new body and grille , similar but slightly different to the original.
This is how the car was when in the Donnington collection, new body, 3.8 motor etc. The car has finished up back in australia.
What happenned to the old body and other parts ?...i am pleased to say they have survived !, in fact of the car in David's pic the complete body(grille,firewall,floor,underpan,aeroscreen),3.4 motor and weber manifold,engine plate are owned by me luckily enough. I have since chased up an ENV 110 box for it as well so if anyone out there has a lagonda de-dion rear with inboard drums ?
I have contacted a number of you privately over the last few months and i thankyou for your replies and info.

cheers for now larry

[Neil Smith]

Hi Larry

very interesting message re the HAR .

As I mentioned in a couple of earlier posts in the thread, the car in Dick Willis' photo is currently in the Brooklands Museum in Weybridge UK and has been for a number of years. I can't post photos, but please check the following:

http://commons.wikim...oklands_Museum_(1).JPG
the car behind the Brooklands Riley is the HAR, and

http://rides.webshot...059386103clPbyE

The information at the museum is that it is owned by Frank Moore of Kenmore, Queensland and is lent by Nick Cookson.

Your comments:

"The car has finished up back in australia.
What happenned to the old body and other parts ?...i am pleased to say they have survived !, in fact of the car in David's pic the complete body(grille,firewall,floor,underpan,aeroscreen),3.4 motor and weber manifold,engine plate are owned by me luckily enough."

appear to indicate that you have a spare set of bodywork (which probably accounts for the very slightly different nose shapes between the car in Dick's photo and the car at Brooklands), the original motor and Weber manifold - looks like the Webers themselves were put on the second 3.8 engine which the Brooklands car has - see the second picture above.

Great to learn a little more about this car

cheers

Neil

[lazzHAR]

cheers for that Neil , i was aware that frank moore owned the car but thought it was back in oz with his collection....i stand corrected !
As for the body , well it is the original one from when the car was first built , although somewhat modified in the nose and tail sections which were altered in '70 / '71 by elfin race cars.
Any clues as to who may have made the body originally ?

larry

[ohamaddog]

hi 

found this forum while searching for pics of the HAR , my dad colin clifford owned and restored it in the early 70's and did demonstrate it in the riley parade silverstone 1973 and also raced it once at cadwell. It took him 2 yrs to restore as it was in poor condition and the previous owner had put a rod through the side of the block while revving it up showing off to my dad , it took ages to locate the engine parts necessary to rebuild but thanks to Gerry Dick who owned a Dixon Riley at the time dad managed to source all parts needed. 

The car looked great when finished but dad prefered his V8 specials which he could also use on the road and sold the HAR to Julian Matzub's dad mid 70's to help fund buying a Riley MPH.

I've attached the only pics we have of it , if anyone has any others of this or my dads V8 specials racing or at rest i would appreciate a copy as i'm making a scrap book for dads next bday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ohamaddog]

Some info on the HAR taken from a Riley Register newsletter.

 

 

 

[ensign14]

I've attached the only pics we have of it , if anyone has any others of this or my dads V8 specials racing or at rest i would appreciate a copy as i'm making a scrap book for dads next bday.

 

Only one I've got - as it stood in Brooklands in 2009.
 

[ohamaddog]

Thanks for that pic but this is a different car with a jaguar engine which was discussed earlier in the post and i saw in the donnington museum some years ago now , nice pic though .

the other 2 cars i'm looking for pics of are these

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eric Dunsdon]

The bright red car shown in the posts, looks nothing like the mid green coloured car that Horace Richards drove in so many F2 and Libre races in the 1950's.

[ohamaddog]

Eric does the maroon car look like the F2 car ? , i seem to think the nose changed once or twice through its development but the rest remained basically the same. When dad got the car i think he said it was light blue in colour and a little bit rough . He restored it to near concours condition and took it to a riley register rally on a trailer behind his first riley V8 special which caused quite a double take as both were similar colour.

As far as i know julian matzub still has the car although probably not in very good condition after 40 yrs of standing.

Edited by ohamaddog, 01 May 2014 - 16:49.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Eric does the maroon car look like the F2 car ? , i seem to think the nose changed once or twice through its development but the rest remained basically the same. When dad got the car i think he said it was light blue in colour and a little bit rough . He restored it to near concours condition and took it to a riley register rally on a trailer behind his first riley V8 special which caused quite a double take as both were similar colour.

As far as i know julian matzub still has the car although probably not in very good condition after 40 yrs of standing.

 

I wouldnt have identified the maroon car as being the H.A..R. The nose certainly looks quite different to the one I remember from the 1950's. Thank you for your posts, I rather envy your dad having owned the car which I have many nostalgic memories of. My ageing memory tells me that  Horace's car was a shade of mid-green but your comments on it being light blue are now making me question that!. It was a fascinating period of motor racing that I have fond memories of.

[ohamaddog]

Eric 

I've managed to find a few more pics from the early days on google , the nose is definately different in a couple of pics but then changes to more like the one when dad owned it.

It also looks like the early car has a four cyl engine due to pipes exiting the bonnet take up too small an area to be a six.

What do you think Eric ? does early car look more like the one you used to see ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EvDelft]

Just another question about this car... Yes, I've been away for a while, too... In the old pics the car seems to be white or at least a light colour, while in the seventies the car is some sort of bourdeaux...

Does anybody know the original colour? I always assumed it was white.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Eric 

I've managed to find a few more pics from the early days on google , the nose is definately different in a couple of pics but then changes to more like the one when dad owned it.

It also looks like the early car has a four cyl engine due to pipes exiting the bonnet take up too small an area to be a six.

What do you think Eric ? does early car look more like the one you used to see ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great photos!. Thats exactly how  I remember the F.A.R. especially the one of Horace at Stowe Corner, Silverstone. 1953 I believe, and a race that I remember watching.

I often wonder how that car would have peformed in the hands of a younger, and perhaps faster driver. Not that H.A had anything to prove, and simply enjoyed racing his own car the way that he wanted to, a regular and popular sight on the National racing scene. Thank you for posting  those photographs. P.S. Might we see the car 'on circuit' anytime?.

Edited by Eric Dunsdon, 03 May 2014 - 13:34.

[Richi550]

Hi everybody,

I've got some pictures of the 1953 HAR Jaguar Formula Libre Single-Seater if your are intressted? This car is now in Switzerland. Just let me know

[Peter Morley]

Eric does the maroon car look like the F2 car ? , i seem to think the nose changed once or twice through its development but the rest remained basically the same. When dad got the car i think he said it was light blue in colour and a little bit rough . He restored it to near concours condition and took it to a riley register rally on a trailer behind his first riley V8 special which caused quite a double take as both were similar colour.

As far as i know julian matzub still has the car although probably not in very good condition after 40 yrs of standing.

 

Julian Majzub is very friendly you could contact him through his Blockley Tyres company, it might be in reasonable condition if he still has it - he's unlikely to be short of space or budget!

[ensign14]

Hi everybody,

 

I've got some pictures of the 1953 HAR Jaguar Formula Libre Single-Seater if your are intressted? This car is now in Switzerland.

Just let me know

 

Yes please.

[Richi550]

https://drive.google...D_tvbnZoDpho88c

https://drive.google...3-vXKcNNa1NdP_M

[ensign14]

Nice.  Looks the business.