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Croft Circuit may face closure...


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#1 RTH

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 17:34

Following a court decision and severe damages award Croft may not be able to continue.

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=19253

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#2 Leigh Trevail

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 18:29

Yet again; the same question has to be asked!! WHY did they move into a house near a circuit??

#3 picblanc

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 18:39

Originally posted by Leigh Trevail
Yet again; the same question has to be asked!! WHY did they move into a house near a circuit??


Hopefully they will be asked that in court soon.
But in answer to your question, cheaper price may be?

#4 Stephen W

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 19:33

Originally posted by Leigh Trevail
Yet again; the same question has to be asked!! WHY did they move into a house near a circuit??


Rather than taking action against the circuit they should be taking action against the firm of solicitors who did the searches and failed to inform them of the potential noise from Croft.

I have absolutely no sympathy for these people who I suspect are out to make money and have no interest in motor racing. Personally I would love to have a race circuit so close I could hear it!!!

:wave:

#5 Buford

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 19:48

Interesting - I was there in October 1981 and it was closing then. Their last race and i think it did close. Then reopened at some later point.

#6 Geoff E

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 20:39

Originally posted by Buford
Interesting - I was there in October 1981 and it was closing then. Their last race and i think it did close. Then reopened at some later point.


In the follow up discussion of the story, it said Croft reopened in 1997.

#7 Phil Rainford

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 20:48

Croft re-opened as a rallycross venue from the late 1980s onwards......

Kind regards

Phil

#8 RS2000

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 21:24

I think this is half the story. Isn't there a "former domestic connection" between the current house occupier and someone involved or formerly involved in operations at Croft? Allegedly, the action is maliciously inspired for reasons unconnected with the circuit. Using track days rather than race days already approved by authorities is a clever tactic.
As a separate issue, the existence of so-called "track days" on the scale that exists nationally today in the UK is a big problem for real motorsport. Too often when (amateur) motor clubs look at a potential venue - often airfields - a commercial operator gets in first with "track days" and consequently prevents organised motorsport. I know all the arguments about maximising revenue from permanent circuits but the track day craze (with the politically-correct spin that it stops unsafe driving on public roads) will see the end of the sport here for lack of venues. Most of those involved in what has become a major track day industry spend as much as people actually competing at many levels of the sport and that is not a healthy situation for the future.

#9 ensign14

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 21:40

Originally posted by Leigh Trevail
Yet again; the same question has to be asked!! WHY did they move into a house near a circuit??

Problem is this:

Interestingly, the complaint was not about organised race events, which only take place on approximately 50 days each year, but instead regarded vehicle testing days and open track days.

Presumably track days are increasing?

#10 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 21:58

Dreary circuit and It's a long way from London.......

#11 Mistron

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 22:21

from the link:

Croft circuit grew out of a disused RAF base first raced on in the 1920s, before being used by the airforce again in World War 2. Since then it has grown into an world-famous racing circuit, hosting various club events, as well as British Touring Car Championship and British Superbike Championship rounds.

Is this true? is it then the 1st 'airfield circuit' (excepting Brooklands, of course)

and I'm not sure what is meant by 'and it's a long way from London.........' is this a bad thing?

#12 Rob Ryder

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 22:41

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Dreary circuit and It's a long way from London.......

:rolleyes: I could say the same about Silverstone.. dreary and a long way from Teesside... :rolleyes:

#13 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 22:55

Non-dreary UK ciruits? Umm - Cadwell Park, Oulton Park, Brown Patch...err arguably Goodwood - and then, umm, errr, aaah???? :confused:

DCN

#14 HistoricMustang

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 23:12

The circuit.

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#15 Barry Boor

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 23:35

Been to Anglesey yet, Doug? :)

#16 markpde

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 00:02

Originally posted by Mistron
and I'm not sure what is meant by 'and it's a long way from London.........' is this a bad thing?

Certainly not if you live in Scotland. :D

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Non-dreary UK ciruits? Umm - Cadwell Park, Oulton Park, Brown Patch...err arguably Goodwood - and then, umm, errr, aaah????

DCN

You know what I'm going to say, don't you? :lol:

#17 john aston

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 08:04

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Dreary circuit and It's a long way from London.......

Do go on...? Whilst Croft is no Spa , it is a damned sight better place to watch racing than a number of other circuits elsewhere in the UK and having both driven around it on many occasions and watched racing there since 1970 I would be sad to lose it.Another point in its favour is the low numbers of sneering southern jessies who can get off their patronising backsides to drive up the A1

#18 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 08:34

Originally posted by RS2000
I think this is half the story. Isn't there a "former domestic connection" between the current house occupier and someone involved or formerly involved in operations at Croft? Allegedly, the action is maliciously inspired for reasons unconnected with the circuit. Using track days rather than race days already approved by authorities is a clever tactic.
As a separate issue, the existence of so-called "track days" on the scale that exists nationally today in the UK is a big problem for real motorsport. Too often when (amateur) motor clubs look at a potential venue - often airfields - a commercial operator gets in first with "track days" and consequently prevents organised motorsport. I know all the arguments about maximising revenue from permanent circuits but the track day craze (with the politically-correct spin that it stops unsafe driving on public roads) will see the end of the sport here for lack of venues. Most of those involved in what has become a major track day industry spend as much as people actually competing at many levels of the sport and that is not a healthy situation for the future.


Over here at Snetterton I have heard there are 5 cars booked in for a general test day this week - I think at £95 a time. To go on track, drivers must possess a competition licence.

At the weekend there was a trackday - at £110 a time, oversubscribed, no race licence necessary. It's easy to see where most of the circuit revenue is coming from and no wonder the track owners like their trackday organisers.

#19 Stephen W

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:44

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Dreary circuit and It's a long way from London.......


Excellent, keep those Cockeneys away!

:rotfl:

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#20 Stephen W

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:45

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

At the weekend there was a trackday - at £110 a time, oversubscribed, no race licence necessary. It's easy to see where most of the circuit revenue is coming from and no wonder the track owners like their trackday organisers.


Why do you think MSV has its own Track-day Company?

:wave:

#21 Russell Burrows

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:47

Originally posted by john aston

Do go on...? Whilst Croft is no Spa , it is a damned sight better place to watch racing than a number of other circuits elsewhere in the UK and having both driven around it on many occasions and watched racing there since 1970 I would be sad to lose it.Another point in its favour is the low numbers of sneering southern jessies who can get off their patronising backsides to drive up the A1


Take whippet for walk lad and calm down.......then ponder why, with one notable exception, the best circuits in Britain have been located south of Birminghamshire. :cool:

#22 Stephen W

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:52

Originally posted by Russell Burrows


Take whippet for walk lad and calm down.......then ponder why, with one notable exception, the best circuits in Britain have been located south of Birminghamshire. :cool:


Like Oulton Park, Knockhill and Anglesey Racing Circuit. ;)

#23 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:47

You're forgetting Cadwell, THE best circuit in the UK.

#24 alansart

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:07

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
You're forgetting Cadwell, THE best circuit in the UK.


:clap:

#25 Stephen W

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:15

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
You're forgetting Cadwell, THE best circuit in the UK.


OOOPS! You are quiet right about forgetting Cadwell, not sure on the second part though! ;)

#26 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:08

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson


Over here at Snetterton I have heard there are 5 cars booked in for a general test day this week - I think at £95 a time. To go on track, drivers must possess a competition licence.

At the weekend there was a trackday - at £110 a time, oversubscribed, no race licence necessary. It's easy to see where most of the circuit revenue is coming from and no wonder the track owners like their trackday organisers.


Nail-on-head comment there Andrew.

Of course it's not exactly a cheap or easy business to get hold of a licence and do the job properly, especially once you add in annual club memberships, bi-annual medicals, ARDS courses and such like. With this in mind you can understand why someone is willing to spend an extra £15 a time to avoid the hassle.

And of course you have the chance to show-off to/scare your mates/wife/girlfriend by taking them out for a blast - something you can't do on a proper test day.

I agree that many a dedicated track-day-hero seems to spend as much and maybe more than a lot of club racers but I guess it's really a symptom (failing?) of organised motor sport in general. To anyone who has no prior connections it's really not that easy to get involved and often seems to represent poor value for money by comparison with a track day.

#27 Hieronymus

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:21

Is this not your typical European scenario…authorities and legal eagles closing down circuits following noise complaints? The FIM has been very pro-active in addressing noise issues, since they realise the thread it holds for sustainable motorsport. Unfortunately it seems that the FIA is still living in the dark ages as far as this is concern.

#28 john aston

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:42

Originally posted by Russell Burrows


Take whippet for walk lad and calm down.......then ponder why, with one notable exception, the best circuits in Britain have been located south of Birminghamshire. :cool:


The best circuits in Uk are ,in order, Cadwell, Oulton and Brands .Two of which are Oop North to a Southerner I would suggest.And ponder on this- without Croft,Rufforth , Charterhall et al would we ever have senn the brilliance of a Clark or Stewart ? Sorry for delay in posting, had to check the leeks and work an 80hour shift down t'pit....

#29 Stephen W

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:42

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Of course it's not exactly a cheap or easy business to get hold of a licence and do the job properly, especially once you add in annual club memberships, bi-annual medicals, ARDS courses and such like. With this in mind you can understand why someone is willing to spend an extra £15 a time to avoid the hassle.

And of course you have the chance to show-off to/scare your mates/wife/girlfriend by taking them out for a blast - something you can't do on a proper test day.

I agree that many a dedicated track-day-hero seems to spend as much and maybe more than a lot of club racers but I guess it's really a symptom (failing?) of organised motor sport in general. To anyone who has no prior connections it's really not that easy to get involved and often seems to represent poor value for money by comparison with a track day.


The track-days that Liverpool Motor Club run on the Aintree club circuit are always well supported with full 'entry lists' - often filled within 72 hours of the forms going on-line. The 'competitors' come from all over the country and do spend a lot on their cars plus getting to events with tow-cars, trailers etc. They are not supposed to time their laps but many do thanks to the technologies now available. At the last one I attended a young bloke came along with his Nissan Skyline and was burning off 1.5 gallons of fuel for every two laps run - that's 3.28 miles per gallon!!!!

Several people I spoke to had considered Hillclimbs and Sprints but thought they got better value for money out of track-days. There were a lot who also raced and used the track-day as a test session and they also thought that the track day was a cheap way of testing.

:

#30 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:48

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Is this not your typical European scenario…authorities and legal eagles closing down circuits following noise complaints? The FIM has been very pro-active in addressing noise issues, since they realise the thread it holds for sustainable motorsport. Unfortunately it seems that the FIA is still living in the dark ages as far as this is concern.


In Britain the noise issue has been addressed for many years with (more or less) only FIA classes running above very strict limits. Most classes now run at noise levels below those permissable on road cars and the majority of the noise is from the tyres.
The noise situation has always been a stick that the authorities and kill-joys have used against our sport. Yet the reality is that motor racing, in Britain at least, is now very quiet indeed compared to thirty years ago. The problem is that with protesters the more you give them, the more they want and even the lowest noise limits are not enough...nothing ever will be...
Motor sport is an easy target and the public perceives it to be terribly noisy when in reality it's not - but most people do not know that as they have little first hand experience and simply hear the protests and see F1 on telly. Perception is far more dangerous than reality in such matters. :(

The MSA seems very reluctant to stand up for the sport. I don't recall any kind of PR campaign to show people how much has been done (at vast cost) to remain good neighbours.

#31 Geoff E

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 15:24

Originally posted by john aston
Whilst Croft is no Spa ...


Oh yes it is! http://www.aeiou.co....lages/croft.htm

#32 john aston

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 15:38

Spa with a lower case 's' involving malodorous water rather than the majestic jewel of the Ardennes...!

The loudest noise at Croft comes from local whingers - some of whom probably moved there from Down South(forgive me a little prejudice)- the East Coast Main Line - which is 150yards from circuit boundary, the A road from Northallerton and Darlington - 450yards away- and the flightpath of Teeside airport- right over the circuit.

#33 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 16:18

Originally posted by john aston

and the flightpath of Teeside airport- right over the circuit.


Same with Donington on that score. How anyone can hear the cars over the sound of low-altitude Boeing's is quite beyond me. They must try very hard.... :drunk:

#34 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 16:24

Or the F15s from USAF Lakenheath that buzz around the Snetterton area most days...there goes another one.

#35 Stephen W

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 16:39

Whilst at Goodwood for a sprint a couple of years back the most noise came from a light aircraft taking off, next worst were the motorbikes on the road adjacent to the circuit who seemed to be constantly whizzing about. Both of these drowned out the racing cars never mind the Road Going classes!

:wave:

#36 Russell Burrows

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 18:12

Originally posted by john aston


The best circuits in Uk are ,in order, Cadwell, Oulton and Brands .Two of which are Oop North to a Southerner I would suggest.And ponder on this- without Croft,Rufforth , Charterhall et al would we ever have senn the brilliance of a Clark or Stewart ? Sorry for delay in posting, had to check the leeks and work an 80hour shift down t'pit....


Our circuits have never measured up internationally and since those operating them have got chicane and corner re- profiling happy, the gap has widened further. As Brands has yet to suffer the indignity of having a ridiculously slow chicane plonked down on its lovely sweepery, it remains the best circuit in the country.

#37 Doug Nye

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 20:42

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Been to Anglesey yet, Doug? :)


Sorry - but no - never. Been over it a few times...with a few friends - this being the hesitant response of Dean Bachelor of 'Road & Track' magazine when asked by a Mercedes-Benz main board director if he had ever previously visited Stuttgart... :cool:

DCN

#38 markpde

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 20:53

Originally posted by Doug Nye


Sorry - but no - never. Been over it a few times...with a few friends - this being the hesitant response of Dean Bachelor of 'Road & Track' magazine when asked by a Mercedes-Benz main board director if he had ever previously visited Stuttgart... :cool:

DCN

That's like when Bob Dylan was asked if he'd ever read the Bible and he said he'd glanced through it. ;)

#39 LB

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 21:04

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Dreary circuit and It's a long way from London.......


:mad: everywhere is a long way from me, Croft was/is quite handy as I have relations all over the NE and its a pretty good viewing track actually.

Its close to Newcastle/Sunderland/Middlesboro easy drive from Sheffield/Leeds/Manchester and the second closest circuit to the mere 5 million populace of Scotland.

Oh and despite the utterances of the poison dwarf and the champagne set, Silverstone certainly measures up well internationally, so does Brands and Donny according to my biking friends. Oh and the facilities at the sadly underused Rockingham are excellent.

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#40 Mistron

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 21:48

Originally posted by Russell Burrows


As Brands has yet to suffer the indignity of having a ridiculously slow chicane plonked down on its lovely sweepery, it remains the best circuit in the country.


yeah, But it's a long way from Edinburgh, so it must be Sh*t

:)

#41 ianselva

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 22:45

Originally posted by LB


:mad: everywhere is a long way from me, Croft was/is quite handy as I have relations all over the NE and its a pretty good viewing track actually.

Its close to Newcastle/Sunderland/Middlesboro easy drive from Sheffield/Leeds/Manchester and the second closest circuit to the mere 5 million populace of Scotland.

Oh and despite the utterances of the poison dwarf and the champagne set, Silverstone certainly measures up well internationally, so does Brands and Donny according to my biking friends. Oh and the facilities at the sadly underused Rockingham are excellent.

I'd be interested to know in what way Silverstone measures up well. I have nothing against the BRDC and think they make the best of what is a bloody poor basis for a circuit,but unless you are a BRDC member , there is virtually nowhere you can see more than the straight/corner you are spectating from. The only time I went to a GP there we saw more on the big screen than live action, ans we were in the main grandstand.
No comparison at all with Brands or Donington from the spectators point of view or personally from a drivers point of view.

#42 Russell Burrows

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 22:50

Originally posted by Mistron


yeah, But it's a long way from Edinburgh, so it must be Sh*t

:)


Yes, well, if you will live in the provinces......

#43 Mistron

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:33

ah, the Provinces. Our breeding ground for your Prime ministers.

That'll teach you!

#44 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:45

....and that's a reccomendation???? :)

#45 Mistron

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:54

no, revenge! :D

#46 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:06

Originally posted by ianselva

unless you are a BRDC member , there is virtually nowhere you can see more than the straight/corner you are spectating from


I never quite understood this rather familiar criticism as it may apply to the area around the pits but certainly not to the rest of the track.

From Stowe you can see from the start of Hanger straight right through to the approach to Bridge. I make that over a third of the circuit and four distinct 'corners' in all.

At Club you can see the exit of Stowe,Vale,Club itself and the turn in for Abbey. Up at Becketts you get a left-right-left-right high speed section... and before you ask I am no fan of Silverstone itself - not these days.

I think it was Tony Dron in a recent OCTANE column who remarked on the viewing at Stowe and lamented that most people never venture that far from the pits to take it in.

#47 Stephen W

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:16

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


I never quite understood this rather familiar criticism as it may apply to the area around the pits but certainly not to the rest of the track.

From Stowe you can see from the start of Hanger straight right through to the approach to Bridge. I make that over a third of the circuit and four distinct 'corners' in all.

At Club you can see the exit of Stowe,Vale,Club itself and the turn in for Abbey. Up at Becketts you get a left-right-left-right high speed section... and before you ask I am no fan of Silverstone itself - not these days.

I think it was Tony Dron in a recent OCTANE column who remarked on the viewing at Stowe and lamented that most people never venture that far from the pits to take it in.


After the erection of catch fencing round Woodcote I switched to Stowe and found that for racedays the centre of the three gandstands was the perfect viewing spot for all the reasons mentioned by Simon above. I always booked seats on the back row of the stand next to a gangway thus making life more tolerable and optimising on the viewing pleasure.

On Practice for the GPs I would spend part of the time at Woodcote but mostly at Becketts - just round the corner so that the catch fencing didn't stop me taking photos.

I also watched a couple of GPs from the inside of the circuit at Chapel - another highly underatted viewing area.

:wave:

#48 David McKinney

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:26

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
At Club you can see the exit of Stowe,Vale,Club itself and the turn in for Abbey...

...and if you turn your head slightly you can see the last bit of Becketts and the start of Hangar Straight

#49 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 10:39

If you wish to make your views know to the local councillor please write to
cllr.j.parlour@richmondshire.gov.uk

Please mention how much motorsport puts into the local community (hotels etc)

#50 Stephen W

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 11:13

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
If you wish to make your views know to the local councillor please write to
cllr.j.parlour@richmondshire.gov.uk

Please mention how much motorsport puts into the local community (hotels etc)


Job done! :wave: