23 replies to this topic

[HistoricMustang]

Another oval outside of the States.

Henry



http://photos.stoxne...lbum=537&pos=17

Other memories?

[Arjan de Roos]

Hi Henry,

This is another now defunct Stockcars track in the Netherlands. Just like the Gendt one. Both tracks have been closed down. Baarlo now seems to have an asylum centre placed on the former track.
Baarlo was a track used for the so called World Championships of F1 Stockcars. It was organised by dutch NACO in co-operation with english stock car associations (BriSCA). It would better have been called Open Dutch as most racers and winners were Dutch.
Used until 2000. Search on YouTube for some old 8mm/Betamax material.

[Rob Semmeling]

This is indeed the 800-metre or 1/2-mile oval 'De Berckt' in Baarlo. A former horse track, it was operational for motorcycle and then car racing between 1960 and 1998. Its dirt surface was controversially replaced by asphalt in the 1970s.

There were many more American-style ovals in the Netherlands, but Baarlo was easily the biggest and best known. I'll post a few more in a moment.

[Rob Semmeling]

This is the open-air Burgemeester [ = Mayor ] Damen Sportpark in Geleen, the Netherlands. This is where autospeedway or autocross racing debuted in this country back in 1953.

The oval was operational until the late 1970s, despite a fatal accident in 1972.

[Rob Semmeling]

Here we are looking at 'De Beitel', an industrial area just South of Heerlen, the Netherlands.
There used to be a dirt oval of about 450 metres in length at this very spot circa 1978-1983.

There was also motorcycle road racing here between 1973 and 1988. Here is the circuit seen in its 1977-1988 incarnation:

[Rob Semmeling]

This is 'Circuit de Peel' near Venray, the Netherlands. It was actually built illegally, but racing was tolerated until very recently. I think it was just last year the place was shut down.

I also recall reading about plans to build a new, legal track down the road.

[rx-guru]

I’ve been only once to Baarlo (by crossing the river Maas with a ferry boat from Steijl, IIRC) to see one of their so-called 'Speedway' events, AFAIR in the mid 1970s, and found it ever so boring. They were more buisy with surrounding show drives and stunts, than with the racing. However, Baarlo is close to the Dutch town of Venlo. Just on the other side of the Dutch-German boarder there was another 'Speedway' venue at the town of Kaldenkirchen. This was later closed down as it had to give space for an industrial zone.

@ Rob: What about the 'JaBa Circuit' (IIRC JaBa stood for its owner Jan Bakkes) at Posterholt, near the town of Roermond? Still in use?

[Rob Semmeling]

Yes, the JaBa circuit is still active. You'll find it south of Posterholt, the Netherlands, near the German border.

[eukie]

Originally posted by rx-guru
Just on the other side of the Dutch-German boarder there was another 'Speedway' venue at the town of Kaldenkirchen. This was later closed down as it had to give space for an industrial zone.

@ Eddi or Rob: Any idea where exactly that "speedway" track at Kaldenkirchen was situated? Maybe too late for me and my fellow colleagues at the bureau for the conservation of monuments and sites, but ...
And hey, they even did LeMans-starts there : http://de.youtube.co...h?v=QNuJ8Ys6gAI (some more videos over there!)

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by eukie

@ Eddi or Rob: Any idea where exactly that "speedway" track at Kaldenkirchen was situated?

It's here....
http://www.wikimapia...49&z=17&l=0&m=a
...but by the looks of it not for much longer when the photo was taken..

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by eukie

@ Eddi or Rob: Any idea where exactly that "speedway" track at Kaldenkirchen was situated? Maybe too late for me and my fellow colleagues at the federal & local bureaus for the conservation of monuments and sites, but ...
And hey, they even did LeMans-starts there : http://de.youtube.co...h?v=QNuJ8Ys6gAI (some more videos over there!)

Marco, just a stone throw away from the motorway A61 (see aerial pic), where there is an "Industriegebiet" (sorry, don’t know its name) these days.

[eukie]

Thank you, Simon. And Eddi, yes, I think that`s the VeNeTe industrial area between (Nettetal-)Kaldenkirchen and Venlo. From an older pdf-brochure on the venete.de-website:


I suspect that top right there's the southern part of the track that still looks quite intact on Simon's aerial photo.

[rx-guru]

Sorry Marco, but that old map does not help much as it is a bit too small anyway. However, I have the feeling that this is possibly not the right industrial area. The one I mean lays on the right hand side about half-way between the A61 exits for Kaldenkirchen and Brüggen-Bracht, driving from Venlo to Mönchengladbach.

[eukie]

Hmmm. For me both maps do fit together. Maybe one of those software-wizards here can prove one of us right or wrong, by some kind of overlay?
Or we should arrange a TNF-NRW-sightseeing-meeting at Kaldenkirchen?

[rx-guru]

Marco, do you know what? I’ve expected the former track to have been on a totally wrong spot. After checking the Wikimap very careful I found the industrial area a few hundred metres away from the remains of the circuit. I never use the A61 to go to Venlo, but only from Brüggen-Bracht to Kaldenkirchen, to join the B221 again to reach the motorway Venlo – Duisburg. Thereby, for many, many years I did not realise that there still must be remains of the old racing track just a little further up the A61. As that Wikimap shows the year 2009 I guess you can still find the venue and at least 30% of the old track.

[Mark A]

Originally posted by rx-guru
Marco, do you know what? I’ve expected the former track to have been on a totally wrong spot. After checking the Wikimap very careful I found the industrial area a few hundred metres away from the remains of the circuit. I never use the A61 to go to Venlo, but only from Brüggen-Bracht to Kaldenkirchen, to join the B221 again to reach the motorway Venlo – Duisburg. Thereby, for many, many years I did not realise that there still must be remains of the old racing track just a little further up the A61. As that Wikimap shows the year 2009 I guess you can still find the venue and at least 30% of the old track.

As for the age of the Wikimap, it has exactly the same picture as Google Earth, and GE says it's 2005.

[HistoricMustang]

Am not sure I have ever seen any car with this much stuff attached.

Is this one still with us?

Henry

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
Am not sure I have ever seen any car with this much stuff attached.

Is this one still with us?

Henry

Maybe these guys may know:
http://www.autospeedwayonline.nl/

Some entry tickets for Baarlo:
http://www.autospeed...ody_Entree.html

[Ren� de Boer]

Originally posted by eukie
Or we should arrange a TNF-NRW-sightseeing-meeting at Kaldenkirchen?

Oh yes, I am all for that! After all, it is just 20 min down the road from where I live (Kevelaer). Never knew that there was motor racing history so close to my home (well, I knew about Baarlo, of course, having been there once to do a report, but wasn't aware of Kaldenkirchen).

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by René de Boer


Oh yes, I am all for that! After all, it is just 20 min down the road from where I live (Kevelaer). Never knew that there was motor racing history so close to my home (well, I knew about Baarlo, of course, having been there once to do a report, but wasn't aware of Kaldenkirchen).

And if you come down to Kaldenkirchen you will closely pass those Dutch military grounds (on the right hand side between the motorway exits of Straelen [A40] and Kaldenkirchen [A61]) to where Rallycross was imported from the UK and driven for the AVRO in 1969 and 1970, before the NRV moved to its new home, the Eurocircuit at Valkenswaard in 1971.;)

BTW, are you an ommegang fan to live in Kevelaer, René…?

[eukie]

Originally posted by rx-guru
And if you come down to Kaldenkirchen you will closely pass those Dutch military grounds (on the right hand side between the motorway exits of Straelen [A40] and Kaldenkirchen [A61]) to where Rallycross was imported from the UK and driven for the AVRO in 1969 and 1970, before the NRV moved to its new home, the Eurocircuit at Valkenswaard in 1971.;)

Another fact I didn't know until yet. (and one extra for Eddi - just checked the "rallycross"-wikipedia-entry you contributed so much). That's the "Groote Heide", isn't it? A military ground that changed hands more than once during the fates of history - we're currently working on the protection of the "German" parts of this important historical site. -> http://www.fliegerhorst-venlo.net/

I've been there a couple of times together with my colleagues, one of whom has written a large article about it - bud we didn't realise the motorsport aspect, I'm afraid ...

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by eukie

Another fact I didn't know until yet. (and one extra for Eddi - just checked the "rallycross"-wikipedia-entry you contributed so much). That's the "Groote Heide", isn't it? A military ground that changed hands more than once during the fates of history - we're currently working on the protection of the "German" parts of this important historical site. -> http://www.fliegerhorst-venlo.net/

I've been there a couple of times together with my colleagues, one of whom has written a large article about it - bud we didn't realise the motorsport aspect, I'm afraid ...

Marco, strange enough, although the place is only about 20 kms away from my home near Brüggen I have never been inside that military camp. But I have some trustworthy information of the 1969 RX test day and the first ever true Dutch RX event for the AVRO, on June 7 1969. However, I attended my first ever RX event only on September 1 1974 at Valkenswaard, four years after the NRV had already left the heathland near Venlo. Therefore, all I know about the infancy of Dutch RX at Venlo (and Elst) is just from hearsay.

Here the manuscript of a short story I did for the August 2005 issue of "Rallycross World" (an 'e-zine', monthly published by my English friend/counterpart Tim Whittington) about how RX reached the European continent:

How the rest was won
It cannot be pointed out enough times that the first ever true Rallycross was held at Lydden Circuit on Saturday, February 4 1967 and was won by later Formula One driver and 1968 Rally Monte Carlo winner Vic Elford, one of the greatest all-rounders in motor sport history. And that Rallycross really owes his existence to nobody other than TV producer Robert Reed (ITV), the late organiser Bud Smith (750 MC) and the late Lydden Circuit owner Bill Chesson, while driver/journalist/commentator John Sprinzell (who invented the name of our sport just prior to the event) and journalist Barrie Gill (Sun) could be seen as some kind of midwifes to the new baby child.
But how did Rallycross reach and conquer the European continent? Rob Herzet (AVRO), a Dutch counterpart to Robert Reed, discovered Rallycross during a visit to Great Britain in 1968 and immediately understood its potential for the television viewers. No wonder, by that time there were nearly 10 Million Britons watching some of the events on the telly. Back home in the Netherlands Herzet contacted Rally driver and motoring journalist Gerard van Lennep to discuss his latest find. Both agreed that this form of sprint racing could be also appropriate for Holland. Van Lennep soon started his investigations and found a military testing ground near the town of Venlo, close to the Dutch-German border. Actually there had been two venues available, the one at Venlo and one at Elst, but the aid offered by the army turned the decision into the favour of Venlo. On Saturday, May 17 1969 a group of invited drivers went to the spot for a testing day. Everybody was really satisfied and enthusiastic and only three weeks later, on Saturday, June 7 1969 the first ever Rallycross on the European continent was held. The track consisted of a part of a concrete airplane runway, loose sections through heathland and a 40 Metre long and 10 Metre deep hollow usually used for tank testing. Although the soft heath soil and the muddy hollow hampered most of the about two dozen competitors, or at least their mostly over-aged cars, the event produced a lot of fun for all concerned people as well as the TV audience. Overall victory went eventually to Hans Kok and his rather valuable NSU 1200 TT. The Dutch television company AVRO gave green light to Mijnheer Herzet as well as another three rounds counting towards the so-called AVRO-Trophy and on August 16 of the same year NSU campaigner Hans Kok claimed the first national Dutch Rallycross title. On November 1 1969 the Dutch Rallycross Association NRV was founded which organised during 1970 another five events at Venlo. For 1971 the Nederlandse Rallycross Vereniging moved the Sport to its new continental home at Valkenswaard near Eindhoven. The Eurocircuit, opened on Saturday, April 17 1971 with a race that was won by living legend Jan de Rooy and his famous “hunchback” DAF 55 Coupé 4WD, became the first ever European track that was especially designed and purely build for Rallycross purposes.

[Mark A]

The all new version of Google Earth released today helps out with the layout of Kaldenkirchen circuit.

This is the normal GE picture which was taken in 2005 and shows most of the circuit is covered in sand.



Now you can turn back the clock on some of the aerial shots which means in this case going back to 2000 before the circuit was destroyed.





It has also means going back at Suzuka to a time there wasn't a huge cloud over it, etc etc.

[ascn]

Hi everybody

By searching the net for some information I came up with this thread and had to join these board. I grow up at Kaldenkirchen Racetrack as my complete family was involved there. Bad the track closed down end of 1987 and nowadays you will only find a big hill of sand that covered the complete track.



Here a pic from its better days.

I think from all short oval track in europe this one was the best for spectators to watch.