41 replies to this topic

[HistoricMustang]

Numerous tracks have been discussed in numerous threads but I do not believe this one has been touched. So, can the members provide information?

Some information says this started as a grass track? Can we expand on this?

Henry

[Leggy]

Started as a grass track by Bill chesson I believe, then It was run by sittingbourne Motorcycle club in the 70's. BEMSEE had the lease from '95 onwards until last year when Pat Doran the Rally Man took over....

Hasn't changed since its inception 40 odd years ago and its my favourite race track in the country...because its got a fast bit, a slow bit, and an off camber bit....and its 25 mins from my house which helps!

[Leggy]

ripped from the website...... I was close

"The track was founded by the late Bill Chesson and the Astra Motor Club in 1955. They promoted stock-car racing and grass-track racing for motorcycles, and it wasn't until 1965 when asphalt was laid for the circuit, for hosting car racing up to Formula 3.

On February 4, 1967 the sport of Rallycross was born at Lydden. Combining tarmac and non-tarmac elements, the inaugural race was won by Vic Elford in a Porsche 911. Between 1973 and 1996 Lydden Circuit saw a total of 23 rounds for the Embassy/ERA European Rallycross Championships and FIA European Championships for Rallycross Drivers, all organised by the Thames Estuary Automobile Club (TEAC). To this day, Lydden, as the so-called "Home of Rallycross", still holds British Rallycross Championship racing, especially with its Easter Monday meeting. For the 40th anniversary event in 2007, 8000 people packed into Lydden, which is currently the spectator record for the circuit.

In 1989, after disagreements between venue owner Chesson and the RAC MSA about the safety precautions of the track, the circuit was bought by plant-hire entrepreneur and regular rallycross competitor Tom Bissett.

In 1991 McLaren bought the track and leased it to the British Motorcycle Racing Club (BMCRC) from 1993 on, thus allowing both cars and bikes to have full use of the track. BMCRC have been based at Lydden since, and it forms this home track, playing host to the annual 'Lord of Lydden' and 'Sidecar burnup' races, together with a number of club motorcycle race meetings.

Another piece in the history of Lydden came in 2003, when McLaren had an application turned down for Lydden to become a private testing venue.

From 2008 on the new lease holder of the circuit will be, for at least five years, the Waste Recycling Consultant, former MSA British Rallycross Champion (2002 and 2005) and FIA European Rallycross Championship runner-up (1992) Pat Doran. Pat, an Englishman of Irish origin from Thorverton in Devon, is planning several improvements for the venue as well as an extension of the racing programme (for cars and bikes alike) and his oldest daughter Amy has been appointed as director for day-to-day running of the circuit."

[elansprint72]

Used to feature on the TV frequently, both tarmac circuit and RallyCross. Because it was so compact I guess the BBC only sent half an OB unit and saved money.

Seem to remember lots of trouble at "Hoppy's Drop".

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by elansprint72
Used to feature on the TV frequently, both tarmac circuit and RallyCross. Because it was so compact I guess the BBC only sent half an OB unit and saved money.

Seem to remember lots of trouble at "Hoppy's Drop".

ITV (ABC – World of Sport) started RX at Lydden, BBC (Grandstand) took over only after ITV had left.

I guess you mean "Mabb’s Bank" (named after Geoff Mabb) caused lots of trouble at Lydden, coz "Hoppy’s Drop" (named after Trevor Hopkins) made part of the Brands Hatch RX track.

[sterling49]

Passed by the circuit only last week, great circuit, with excellent spectator views. Sadly the place where John Gott lost his life in his Healey 3000 when he hit Mabbs Bankhead on (due to a heart attack IIRC), I was there on that sad day.

[alansart]

The last time I went to Lydden was 27 years ago In those days the facilities were a bit lacking but it was a great little circuit to race on. There was even a resident tramp who lived in the trees next to the circuit!

I only did circuit racing there but it's probably better known for Rallycross.

http://uk.youtube.co...feature=related

[Stephen W]

The changes that have happened since the Doran family have taken over are brilliant. The paddock no longer looks like a scree slope and has a tarmac covering; there are a couple of grandstands; and the race centre has been replaced and has a fully equipped medical centre.

There were more plans in the pipeline for over the winter (2008/9), all in all a vast improvement since I first went way back in 2006!

[Paul Rochdale]

As I only lived half-an-hour away I went to every car and motorbike event during the first few years and many rallycross events after that. Derek Minter opened the circuit for bikes when he rode around on his Petty Norton. Then he drove around in a Villiers Starmaker-engined Formula 4 car. I once saw motorcross (scrambling) there once with Dave Bickers and Jeff Smith. I even recall seeing a Vanwall race there.

I used to get there early in the morning and spend much of the time wandering around the paddock before going to my regular spot at the hairpin where the entire circuit could be seen.

I'm surprised there was a dispute about it's safety as it was a very safe track. I think only two deaths in all these years. John Gott of course was one.

I believe there was always concern from local residents about the noise on race days although any housing was a long distance from the circuit. By the way, it's LYDDEN HILL - just singular. I also remember the tramp who lived in that shack at Paddock Bend. He used to roam the circuit after the races and collect all sorts of detritus for his 'home'. I wonder what became of him?

The Thames Estuary Automobile Club (TEAC) used to organise all of the car events. I wonder what became of them?

I haven't been for many many years and should put that right.

[alansart]

Originally posted by alansart
The last time I went to Lydden was 27 years ago

My last visit in 1982 - having driven overnight from Germany. I wasn't supposed to be racing but the guy who'd borrowed my car backed out at the last minute when it started to rain - so I drove it instead

[Paul Rochdale]

I remember that car Alan. The drivers upper body and arms were amusingly painted on the side of the car to make it appear there was some sort of 'window' there.

[Stephen W]

2008 British Sprint Round with Matt Oliver steaming round Paddock.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
I remember that car Alan. The drivers upper body and arms were amusingly painted on the side of the car to make it appear there was some sort of 'window' there.

Paul, I do not recall seeing that at any other time.

I have met very few racers who did not like to do these types of odd things.

Henry

[alansart]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


Paul, I do not recall seeing that at any other time.

I have met very few racers who did not like to do these types of odd things.

Henry

Being an Illustrator it seemed a good idea to include some of my artwork on my car. It went down quite well at the time, although it did confuse people if I had to raise my arm for any reason

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
I also remember the tramp who lived in that shack at Paddock Bend. He used to roam the circuit after the races and collect all sorts of detritus for his 'home'. I wonder what became of him?

;) Funny – only a fortnight ago I raised the same question here: http://www.ten-tenth...ad.php?t=112426

[Allan Lupton]

My, how it's changed since I was last there!
I think Leggy is wrong to say "Hasn't changed since its inception 40 odd years ago" as I'm pretty sure that the "long" hairpin loop was an extra, the original hairpin being the still-present cut-through.
Such a shame it is where it is, as the catchment area is restricted by the proximity to the coast. We tried a couple of Eight Clubs race meetings there, and staffing even a small circuit was hard going, where we had no trouble coping with the Club circuit at Silverstone.
Last time I was there was to handicap an Austin 7 race for 750MC - a very long way to go for one race with 14 competitors.

[HiRich]

Originally posted by Stephen W
The changes that have happened since the Doran family have taken over are brilliant. The paddock no longer looks like a scree slope and has a tarmac covering; there are a couple of grandstands; and the race centre has been replaced and has a fully equipped medical centre.

All well and good, but most importantly is the green caravan still in the heart of the Paddock?
Those girls did the best clubman's breakfast this side of Mallory...

[renzo]

Originally posted by Allan Lupton
My, how it's changed since I was last there!
I think Leggy is wrong to say "Hasn't changed since its inception 40 odd years ago" as I'm pretty sure that the "long" hairpin loop was an extra, the original hairpin being the still-present cut-through.
Such a shame it is where it is, as the catchment area is restricted by the proximity to the coast. We tried a couple of Eight Clubs race meetings there, and staffing even a small circuit was hard going, where we had no trouble coping with the Club circuit at Silverstone.
Last time I was there was to handicap an Austin 7 race for 750MC - a very long way to go for one race with 14 competitors.

indeed,i first rode there in around 1967 and the *new*hairpin was still being built.
and the cutoff that you spoke about was the old right turn,the surface in the old days was very rough and grooved but i caried on riding there from then till 1977,returning in 92 for a few years classic racing.
in the photo you can see dear old bill chesson eyeing my bike this was the 1968 lord of lydden meeting 250 race wich i won!!,my first ever win
lydden holds a very dear place in my heart,long may it prosper.


ps.wont miss the stinking old toilet block tho

[h4887]

Originally posted by Stephen W
The changes that have happened since the Doran family have taken over are brilliant. The paddock no longer looks like a scree slope and has a tarmac covering; there are a couple of grandstands; and the race centre has been replaced and has a fully equipped medical centre.

What! Next you'll be telling me they've tarmacked the paddock at Oulton!

[rx-guru]

@ renzo: I don’t think the man in your pic is Bill Chesson. I have a pic from 1973 taken by my friend Kerry Dunlop, showing Bill together with biker Pat Mahoney. On that pic Bill looks like he is still in my mind (I met him about a dozen times between 1978 and the end of the 1980s), much more and longer hair, spectacles and a big moustache. And also a couple of years younger than that man in your pic.

[bradbury west]

Does anyone know of a good source for race entries/results/programmes for Lydden from 1986 to 1991? I am alos interested in any info about a clubmans car entered/logoed by Tovins, later the Canterbury Renault dealer.
Roger Lund

[David Lawson]

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
The Thames Estuary Automobile Club (TEAC) used to organise all of the car events. I wonder what became of them?

I was a member of TEAC in the early 1970s when Sid Offord was the chairman before he went off to the BARC (I think). There was a clubhouse called "Wheelbase" on the seafront in Southend where we met up. In the bar was the broken wheel from Jackie Stewart's Tyrrell that hit a dog at the Mexican GP. There was another bar in the basement, called "The Sump"....

We went to all the rallycross meetings at Lydden and I had my only experience of marshaling at Lydden at a race meeting in about 73/74. A great track and lets hope they don't take all the character away with the "improvements".

The club folded years ago but the premises remain and it is now called the Thames Estuary Social Club.

David

[renzo]

Originally posted by rx-guru
@ renzo: I don’t think the man in your pic is Bill Chesson. I have a pic from 1973 taken by my friend Kerry Dunlop, showing Bill together with biker Pat Mahoney. On that pic Bill looks like he is still in my mind (I met him about a dozen times between 1978 and the end of the 1980s), much more and longer hair, spectacles and a big moustache. And also a couple of years younger than that man in your pic.

your'e probably right,the old memory has faded a bit since then,i think its the clerk of the course/starter who's name escapes me.
but the description of bill rings an old bell now.
can yuo show the pic please?
dennis

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by renzo

your'e probably right,the old memory has faded a bit since then,i think its the clerk of the course/starter who's name escapes me.
but the description of bill rings an old bell now.
can yuo show the pic please?
dennis

I’ll have a look later. Meanwhile, this is a pic I took at Lydden Circuit during the British 1988 FIA European Rallycross Championship round. It shows the late Austrian Herbert Breiteneder (VW Golf GTI 16V with 230bhp) in a furious battle with Norwegian Bjørn Skogstad (Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth with 450+bhp), at the outcome of "Chesson’s Drift", where the RX cars get back from the gravel section onto tarmac. At the end of the series Skogstad was the European champion (Division 1, 2WD Group A cars) and Breiteneder the runner-up.



And here http://www.ms-inside.../file.php?id=21 one can find another pic from the same spot (just a slight different angle), taken 15 years earlier, during the 1973 Embassy European Rallycross Championship round at Lydden, showing Austrian Harald Neger throwing his Alpine A110 over the track.

[rateus]

I grew up within earshot of Lydden Hill (on race days at least ;) ) and visits were a central part of my motor-racing education in the late 70s. I've posted here before that my earliest 'live action' memory is of someone (identified here as Adrian Russell irrc) gunning for the outright lap record in a pukka F2 car, a source of some excitement locally.

Oddly, the only RX meeting I ever went to there was the last meeting I attended there, in the early 90s - I recall 'Whitstable Will' Gollup's Metro 6R4 ended up looking very second-hand indeed.

My parents still live down that way, and my father used to periodically update me on the drawn-out McLaren ownership saga and the machinations of Dover District Council...

[Paul Rochdale]

So how did all that pan out in the end? I recall reading that McLaren planned to by the circuit and build a vast factory beneath the circuit, and that the circuit would be used for testing purposes. Presumably nothing came from that, but did McLaren actually buy the place?

Another memeory, a sad one, was when Pat Mahoney was taken around the circuit standing up in the back of a pickup. It was after his near fatal crash at Brands and he clearly 'wasn't right' and had to be held onto to prevent him falling. A small piece on local TV showed him trying to ride a small off-road bike across a field but he fell when he reached the far side. His balance was gone and his speech was effected. Of course he never did fully recover, lived the remainder of his life with his parents and eventually took his own life.

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
So how did all that pan out in the end? I recall reading that McLaren planned to by the circuit and build a vast factory beneath the circuit, and that the circuit would be used for testing purposes. Presumably nothing came from that, but did McLaren actually buy the place?

Yep, McLaren bought the place from Tom Bissett (who bought it from Bill Chesson) and owe it still. Pat Doran has a leasing contract with them from 2008 till 2013, AFAIK. Pat took care that Lydden will see the first round of the 2009 FIA European Championship for Rallycross Drivers, that will take place from April 11 to 13 (practice and 1st qualifying heats on Easter Sunday, 2nd and 3rd heats as well as all finals on Easter Monday). All the big ERC regulars will be there and I guess that Lydden will claim a new spectator record (the current record is about 8,000 people) that weekend.

Pat "Plastic Paddy" Doran and his 550+bhp RX Fiesta 4WD pictured at Lydden (Devil’s Elbow) in 2006, to be found here: http://upload.wikime...Doran2006-2.jpg

[Dutchy]

I've never been to Lydden but our 500cc F3 series will visit in October for a double header and I'm looking forward to racing there. It should suit the cars well.

[rx-guru]

My friend/colleague Kerry Dunlop, who is a regular visitor at Lydden for the last 45+ years, always claimed that Lydden Circuit and Lydden Hill were two different tracks at the same venue and that to call the Racing and Rallycross track Lydden Hill was vernacular or common touch, but wrong. I understood that there was a trial or grass track that was originally (in the 1950s and 1960s) known as Lydden Hill, very close to the nowadays 1 Mile circuit. However, since Pat Doran took over the venue is officially named Lydden Hill Race Circuit now, while its former official name was Lydden Circuit and later Lydden Race Circuit or Lydden International Race Circuit. AFAIK the area of the venue belongs to the village of Wootton and not to the village of Lydden. Does anyone know more or better about the two different tracks.

[rateus]

Originally posted by rx-guru
My friend/colleague Kerry Dunlop, who is a regular visitor at Lydden for the last 45+ years, always claimed that Lydden Circuit and Lydden Hill were two different tracks at the same venue and that to call the Racing and Rallycross track Lydden Hill was vernacular or common touch, but wrong. I understood that there was a trial or grass track that was originally (in the 1950s and 1960s) known as Lydden Hill, very close to the nowadays 1 Mile circuit. However, since Pat Doran took over the venue is officially named Lydden Hill Race Circuit now, while its former official name was Lydden Circuit and later Lydden Race Circuit or Lydden International Race Circuit. AFAIK the area of the venue belongs to the village of Wootton and not to the village of Lydden. Does anyone know more or better about the two different tracks.

I always remember the racing circuit being referred to locally as 'Lydden Hill', even though you correctly point out that the closest village is in fact Wootton - the village of Lydden is about 1 1/2 miles away.

However, mention of a grass track does stir vague memories from my childhood - the site I'm thinking of would have been on the other side of Lydden though, between there and the village of Temple Ewell, so about 2 miles from the current circuit. As I was only born in 1968, this may of course be my childhood memory playing tricks

As for the McLaren era, they purchased the circuit in 1991 irrc, made a great hoo-ha about building a proper test circuit and factory there, then did precisely sfa about it. Most of the aforementioned council machinations were aimed at getting McLaren to do something with the site, hopefully boosting the local economy to boot - McLaren's inaction was a source of great frustration

[Paul Rochdale]

I also knew Kerry Dunlop, as we were in the same line of work together. He submits sports photographs for the local newspaper.

I know nothing about the Lydden grass track, but the Lydden Hill Circuit and the rallycross circuit are in the same valley. The rallycross circuit uses much of the road racing circuit plus some of the dirt infield, much the same as Brands Hatch.

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
I also knew Kerry Dunlop, as we were in the same line of work together. He submits sports photographs for the local newspaper.

I know nothing about the Lydden grass track, but the Lydden Hill Circuit and the rallycross circuit are in the same valley. The rallycross circuit uses much of the road racing circuit plus some of the dirt infield, much the same as Brands Hatch.

Yep, I know. I was nearly 20 times for RX events at Lydden, between 1978 and 1996 (as well as to all 14 British RX Grands Prix and that single 1995 ERC round to Brands Hatch). The two gravel parts for RX are both in the infield of the racing circuit. But Kerry knows the venue like his trouser pockets and, therefore, why should I question what he told me?

[David Lawson]

Originally posted by Dutchy
I've never been to Lydden but our 500cc F3 series will visit in October for a double header and I'm looking forward to racing there. It should suit the cars well.

I see from the 500 website that the Formula Juniors are also at that meeting on the 3rd and 4th October. What a great venue for these two categories, an unmissable event which deserves a good crowd.

David

[PhilG]

The British Supermoto Championship will be at Lydden this year on Saturday 16th of May, moving on to Lydd on the 17th .

One of the problems facing the track and potential users is the noise curfew which means you ony get 6 hours to run on sunday,which makes fitting in a full program near on impossible, and so we opted to take the saturday and move on 10 miles down the road.

Our layout uses a unique mix of the road race , and rallycross layout, which is very fast but challenging.

Using the existing start, we head to turn one on the tarmac, as per the road race track , but as we get into the second part of the turn we go sharp right, back onto the infield and go across the RX track at 90 degrees into a left hander , and then a short straight running parallel with the RX track , over a jump, and the 90 left and 90 right onto the RX track where we run the last 1/3 of the off road and pick up the track as per the RX layout, into Devils elbow, and up Hairy hill, where a chicane takes us through the inner bank on the left, and we use the outer bank as a berm before coming back through, another gap, and then into the the haipin. The run down the hill is very fast and we have our apex further out into the circuit marked with tyres , so we brake harder and turn on the tarmac before running on the second RX section , past the spot where Mabbs Bank was and through the chicane and over the line.


Its a great track, and we love going there, but i wouldnt want to go round on anything bigger than an SM bike as the runoff in a lot of places is very small.

[HiRich]

Originally posted by Dutchy
I've never been to Lydden but our 500cc F3 series will visit in October for a double header and I'm looking forward to racing there. It should suit the cars well.

James, book it, and try to convince big brother to do it as well. I've only seen a Staride there, but I think you're right on the money. With every corner leading onto a dip or rise, there's a lot of time to be gained and lost. Get the Devil's Elbow wrong and you'll be counting the cars past on the crawl up to the hairpin!

[Dutchy]

Rich, I'm sure big brother won't need any persuasion.

[rx-guru]

Originally posted by renzo

your'e probably right,the old memory has faded a bit since then,i think its the clerk of the course/starter who's name escapes me.
but the description of bill rings an old bell now.
can yuo show the pic please?
dennis

Dennis, you can find a pic of the one and only late Bill Chesson here: http://www.ms-inside...ic.php?f=8&t=84

[renzo]

yes! thats him of course, i remember him now
thanks for that face from the past.
rest in peace bill'your great little circuit is still being used

[RS2000]

What's most worrying is that Lydden was at risk and is the only speed venue left south of the Thames (in one of the wealthy catchment areas that should be expected to provide a major portion of the competitor base) until you go west to the (being lost) Longcross, the minor venues just west of Aldershot and to the south the severely curtailed (and I mean really seriously curtailed compared to what was once available) Goodwood circuit. Brands is unaffordable because track days have priced out sprints.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by RS2000
Brands is unaffordable because track days have priced out sprints.

It isn't just Brands; been looking at Oulton Park, Thruxton, Donington & Rockingham and they all want so much money for the hire that the entry fees would be around the £200.00 mark!

The other problem is the Circuit Management who have not been clever enough to compile their planning applications so that they included single car events. Consequently as far as the planners are concerned a sprint or rally counts just the same as a motor bike race meeting when it comes to the number of competition days. What is needed is a clear split between race days and single car events like sprints. I very much doubt that it will happen as it means that someone has to show a spark of imagination!

:

[PMac]

Does anyone have any idea why Mabbs Bank - immortalised by Murray Walker's commentary when Keith Ripp slammed into it in a spectacular 1970s rallycross incident - is so named?

[sterling49]

Originally posted by PMac
Does anyone have any idea why Mabbs Bank - immortalised by Murray Walker's commentary when Keith Ripp slammed into it in a spectacular 1970s rallycross incident - is so named?

IIRC it was because Geoff Mabbs claimed it during a race in his indecently rapid Cooper "S", or am I hopelessly off track here?