28 replies to this topic

[mcwidow70]

Hi,

I have heard that Rudi Fischer after his retirement in 1952 sold the team to Rudolf Schoeller but reserved the ferrari #0110for some Swiss hill-climb events.

Can this infomation be confirmed?

[uechtel]

Some previous discussions:

http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1
http://forums.autosp... fischer adolff
http://forums.autosp... fischer adolff

If the story about selling the team to Schoeller is based upon Adolff´s memories, then one should not rely too much on that, as for example he denies haveing been entered under that team name. But fact is, that Adolff appears with an Ecurie Espadon entry in the race programme of the 1953 German GP and fact is also, that Fischer drove the Ferrari 500 a week later at the Schauinsland (but this time without the Espadon entry in the programme). Now draw your own conclusions...

[mcwidow70]

thank you for the information.

I have noted that on Freiburg Schauinsland 1953 two ferrari were entered:

n.5 de Tornaco and n.34 entered By Adolff and driven by Fischer ( ).

Does anyone know the detail of de Tornaco's car (I mean chaiss number and colour).

Do you have any information about Fischer's involvement in other hillclimb race starting form 1953 with Ferrari 500?

[David McKinney]

The de Tornaco Ferrari will no doubt have been the Ecurie Francorchamps car, c/no 0208, and probably yellow

[uechtel]

Originally posted by mcwidow70
Do you have any information about Fischer's involvement in other hillclimb race starting form 1953 with Ferrari 500? [/B]

No, besides the Swiss GP only de Terra drove the Ecurie Espadon 12 cylinder car once at the Mitholz Kandersteg hillclimb on 13.09.1953.

[mcwidow70]

Interesting information.
Unfortunately I couldn't found any confirmation: can you suggest me any source about de terra 's attendance to this hillclimb event.

many thanks

[uechtel]

Of course I can: Automobil Revue, Nr. 40, Wednesday 16th Sept. 1953, page 5 (result list):

Race cars up to 2 litres:
Solo - de Terra, M., Zollikon, Ferrari 1998, 2' 16'' 4 - dns - 69,677 km/h

(means he was the only starter in his class and did only the first run)

With this time he was slower than many of the smaller cars, among them even Grandjean on his Renault 900 special touring car, I think 35th place overall. fastest was Daetwyler in his 5.5 litre supercharged Alfa Romeo sports car (which had to start in the unlimited race car class anyway) with a time of 1' 42'' 6 = 93,632 km/h.

[mcwidow70]

many thanks.

Sorry if a bother you again but in the magazine is the race number mentioned?

It would be very useful in order to complete my stats on Ecurire Espadon's cars.

Ciao,

Gianpaolo

[uechtel]

Sorry, there are only the results on that page, no numbers.

[mcwidow70]

I found that R.Fischer won the Mitholz-Kandersteg hillclimb on 1952 driving a Ferrari (2000cc - probably the 212)
Do anyone know the race number?

http://www.deutsch.m...kandersteg.com/

[uechtel]

He drove the four cylinder of course. There is a picture in Automobil Revue from August 27th 1952, but unfortunately I missed the focus with my camera , so I am unable to recognize the number. This is all I can offer:



:

[mcwidow70]

:yawn:

Great,

I have tried with photoshop and the number seems to be the 71, even if I remember to have seen a pic with Fischer driving a car with n.77.
Anyway every help is welcome!!!
Is there anyone who have further information on Ferrari F1/F2's attendace at swiss or german hillclimbs in the 1950s?

[uechtel]

Somehow I anticipated that question...

17.06.1951 Rheineck-Walzenhausen-Lachen
#10 Fischer, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st race cars > 2000 cc (solo run)/ 1st overall - 4'36''2 - 84,721 km/h (new track record)
15.07.1951 Develier - Les Rangiers
#77 Fischer, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st race cars > 2000 cc / 1st overall - 3'16''0 - 134,997 km/h (new track record)
05.08.1951 Großer Bergpreis Schauinsland
#174 Fischer, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st Formula 1 / 2nd overall - 8'07''15 - 88,7 km /h
26.08.1951 Tiefencastel - Lenzerheide
#?? Fischer, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st race cars (solo run) > 2000 cc / 1st overall - 3'31''8 - 106,232 km/h
23.09.1951 Aldiswil - Albis
#149 Fischer, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st race cars > 2000 cc (solo run) / 1st overall - 2'24''0 - 93,508 km/h (new track record) - with this victory Fischer became Swiss champion in the race car category
22.06.1952 Altstätten - Stoss
#17 Fischer, Ferrari 500 (2500 cc) - 1st race cars > 2000 cc / 1st overall - 4'15''4 - 94,440 km/h (special testbed engine, model 625?)
#?? Hirt, Ferrari 212 (1980 cc V12) - 1st race cars < 2000 cc / 2nd overall - 4'37''8 - 86,825 km/h
24.08.1952 Mitholz - Kandersteg
#?? Fischer, Ferrari 500 (1980 cc) - 1st race cars < 2000 cc / 1st overall - 1'46''2 - 89,492 km/h (new track record)
#?? Hirt, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st race cars > 2000 cc / 2nd overall - 1'52''4 - 84,555 km/h
31.08.1952 Maloja
#16 Fischer, Ferrari 500 (1980 cc) - 1st race cars < 2000 cc / 1st overall - (new track record)
09.08.1953 Großer Bergpreis Schauinsland
#34 Fischer, Ferrari 500 (1980 cc) - 2nd race cars < 2000 cc / 2nd overall - 8'07''69
12.09.1953 Mitholz - Kandersteg
#?? de Terra, Ferrari 212 (1998 cc) - 1st race cars < 2000 cc (solo run) / overall position ??? - 2'16''4 - 69,677 km/h

[mcwidow70]

I am very grateful for your assistance Uechtel

Ciao,

[mcwidow70]

I found these two pictures:

15.07.1951 Develier - Les Rangiers
#77 Fischer, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st race cars > 2000 cc / 1st overall - 3'16''0 - 134,997 km/h (new track record)




23.09.1951 Aldiswil - Albis
#149 Fischer, Ferrari 212 (2560 cc) - 1st race cars > 2000 cc (solo run) / 1st overall - 2'24''0 - 93,508 km/h (new track record) - with this victory Fischer became Swiss champion in the race car category





Any other ?

ciao

[ReWind]

By coincidence and thanks to TNFer uechtel I got access to the results of the 1948 Rheineck-Walzenhausen-Lachen
hillclimb (which Rudi Fischer finished 3rd in his class) as they were published by “Automobil-Revue” magazine.

I put those data into the following sheet:For this compilation I do claim ©. (I'm sorry for the slight disorder of the second part.)

As you can see there are some gaps especially regarding the machinery.

I would welcome any addition which helps to make this table more complete.
So if you are aware of car types and/or engine configurations please contribute here.
Thanks.

Edited by ReWind, 10 April 2010 - 15:15.

[David McKinney]

What do 1A, 1E etc mean, Reinhard?

[ReWind]

In the touring and sports car categories the organizers distinguished amateurs (abbr. A) and experts (abbr. E).

1.A = first amateur in the category,
1.E = first expert in the category.

[David McKinney]

Ah!
Should have remembered
Thanks

[uechtel]

Citroen touring car with 1911 cc would be the 11 CV model ("Traction Avant") and the Ford model was simply called "V8"

Edited by uechtel, 13 April 2010 - 06:47.

[ERault]

Thank you so much for the Rheineck-Walzenhausen-Lachen table results, that really makes fascinating reading. Some bits of info and guesses :

- the 8C 2900 Alfa of Hutchison would be a Tipo B (single-seater) as opposed to the 8C 2900B (sportscar) of Studer and Glauser
- the Gordini is (in France at least) called a Type 11
- Hirt raced a special Aprilia made by Boneschi in Italy
- from the engine capacity, the Delahaye should be type 135, but I don't know if they are of the special competition model (unlikely as they are entered in the touring car class)
- could the Platé Speciale be one of the prewar Talbot car ? I think "our" Pariani is probably the one behind the Pariani-OSCA special of 1949
- I think "Hervé" had his K3 Midget by 1948, but an unsupercharged 1250 engine does not match
- Ranzzini in 1947 had the ex-Bracco Aprilia Speciale by Tinarelli. He probably kept it for 1948

I would love to know more about the Kaufmann and Azzi Maseratis...

[ReWind]

Thanks, uechtel & ERault.

Some more? Anyone?

[ReWind]

Some colour pictures from the 1948 Rheineck-Walzenhausen-Lachen hillclimb:


1


2


3


4


5


6


7


8


9


10


11


12


13

(Source)

[uechtel]

Interesting that the red colour is so dominant when I had expected more white on the cars.

[uechtel]

Interesting that the red colour is so dominant when I had expected more white on the cars.

#99 must be Lofgren / HRG, because of the Swedish flag on the car (so again the "wrong" colour...)

Edited by uechtel, 18 November 2011 - 13:58.

[HiRich]

Photo 8 (Car 98 or possibly 58) is Jakob Keller in the Keller Spezial. I suspect it's a very early photo because the car got a paint job later. JAP can be made out on the cylinder head - the regular Triumph apparently came later.

Lovely photos.

[David McKinney]

Yes - great photos

I would guess de Graffenried in the #62 Maserati 4CL and Branca in the #63 ditto

Hans Stuck of course with one of the Cisitalias, possibly Walter Wüst with another

Can't distinguish the Alfas, but one is probably Studer's and another Dattner's. I don't think Willy Peter Daetwyler was there

[Jean L]

Photo 3 must be Jean Studer / Alfa Romeo 8C-2900.

[ReWind]

I don't think Willy Peter Daetwyler was there

Look no further than post # 16.
BTW Studer's car number was one of only two I knew then.