14 replies to this topic

[alfista]

There have been lots of rumours and those who believe in it have one more proof. Citroen announced a new global brand project today. It includes new visual identity, new slogan, new models and usual marketroids' blah-blah-blah. What makes it really interesting is renaming Citroen Sport to Citroen Racing. Yes, it's only name but you have to ask why?
Creating new brand is not cheap and there's nothing wrong with Citroen Sport. Quite the opposite - they have won everything in rallying (both WRC and JWRC) in recent years and their image is excellent. But WRC cars will be dropped next year and replaced with S2000 (more likely) or S2000+ (less likely). Problem with Citroen is that they have no suitable car. C2 is too small, C4 too big and C3 too old. Even if there was a base car, Citroen wouldn't probably be able to build a winning rally car from scratch in less than one year. In the same time sister company Peugeot has a proven winner in 207 S2000.
Citroen is trying to move towards premium market with C5 (and C6). DTM could be a good marketing tool to present it - if you can race Audi and Merc on the track you look strong. DTM also needs Citroen (or any other brand) badly if they want to survive at all.
Sébastien Loeb could well switch from rallies to circuit. He threatened to quit if S2000 cars come and even if he softened his original statement later everybody knows he's not enthusiastic about them. He probably wins his sixth consecutive title this year and has nothing to prove.
From the other side he has second place from Le Mans under his belt and last year performed extremely well on Red Bull F1 test. He's a real racer, in absolute top form and with sky-high motivation. DTM could be an excellent challenge and the series also needs him as a well-known superstar. Plus he can do Le Mans with Peugeot and have no worries about clashing dates or brand images.
So signs are there and I really hope it's not only a dream.

[Buttoneer]

[Chicken McNuggets]

Indeed. Not being a born-in-the-wool rally man (as far as I'm aware?), Oliver Quesnel has hardly looked as determined as Guy Frequelin either, to keep Citroen anchored into the WRC (remember Frequelin's defiant vow that Citroen would make an instant return after the PSA Group withdrawal at the end of '05, which was, sure enough, eventually realised?). Even the turn of phrase of recent statements supposedly reaffirming Citroen's WRC committment, particularly immediately after the Subaru/Suzuki double exit, just no longer seems the same: "Citroen remains entered... etc." Since his exit, really, they've obviously always came across as a little reluctant, as if eyeing a way off the stage (if you'll excuse the pun).

You'd have thought Loeb might've been at the age now where he'd resist taking on such a new challenge in such a potential minefield of a new environment, or at least, many, many drivers, I imagine, would feel that way. Credit to him for bluntly embracing the spirit of the kind of racing he loves.

[johnap]

The C4 would be fine, DTM cars are shilouettes anyway with no connection with the road car beyond the bodyshell.

[Pingguest]

Why doesn't Sébastien Loeb like the proposal to introduce the S2000 for WRC?

[Gilles4Ever]

lack of power / spectacle

[alfista]

Auto Bild Motorsport hold reader contest to design Citroen C5 DTM: http://www.motorspor...at.php?c=09dtm1

[Buttoneer]

Nice!

[lustigson]

That car looks absolutley stunning, and I think Citroën should opt for DTM sooner rather than later

However, I doubt Citroën will be sponsored by Red Bull, since Audi already races under the Red Bull banner. Red Bull is very close to the Volkswagen Group.

And there's some inconsistencies in the picture, too: Dunlop tyres and Pirelli stickers on the door, Mobil 1 on the car, while Citroën's usually linked to Total.

[Buttoneer]

True, but I think you can forgive such things in a fantasy/competition TBH. Especially when the result is so pretty.

[lustigson]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
True, but I think you can forgive such things in a fantasy/competition TBH. Especially when the result is so pretty.

I concur.

[alfista]

The only real problem I see is an engine. DTM website says that only V8 engines with a cylinder bank angle of 90 degrees, a maximum displacement of four litres and a maximum of four valves per cylinder are permitted in the DTM. Citroen has no such production engine while Audi and Merc have. Then there is a clause that engine must be "individually developed". Pay attention there is no word "production". Does it mean you can develop a third party engine (Judd or Zytek for example) for your DTM car?

[lustigson]

Originally posted by alfista
The only real problem I see is an engine. DTM website says that only V8 engines with a cylinder bank angle of 90 degrees, a maximum displacement of four litres and a maximum of four valves per cylinder are permitted in the DTM. Citroen has no such production engine while Audi and Merc have.

Good point.

Then there is a clause that engine must be "individually developed". Pay attention there is no word "production". Does it mean you can develop a third party engine (Judd or Zytek for example) for your DTM car?

I read that Citroën cannot develop their engine together with an other competitor in DTM, for whichever reason they'd want to do so. I do see an opening to buy an engine from an independent supplier and (individually) develop that.

Doesn't Cosworth have some 90-degree 2.4-litre V8s available? They should work mighty fine.;)

[LuckyStrike1]

Originally posted by alfista
The only real problem I see is an engine. DTM website says that only V8 engines with a cylinder bank angle of 90 degrees, a maximum displacement of four litres and a maximum of four valves per cylinder are permitted in the DTM. Citroen has no such production engine while Audi and Merc have. Then there is a clause that engine must be "individually developed". Pay attention there is no word "production". Does it mean you can develop a third party engine (Judd or Zytek for example) for your DTM car?

There are talks about new regulations in DTM, and any new manufacturer joining DTM would most certianly have new regulations where everyone start with a clean sheet of paper as a requirement for entering the competition with Audi and Mercedes. They have so much knowledge and experience of the current regulations, that everyone occurs are starting to become to expensive and too difficult for overtaking, that it's very hard for a new manufacturer to catch up.

DTM has also hinted as far as I know that they would be willing to change regulations if that would lure one or two new manufacturers and both Audi and Mercedes have been positive too.

So I would guess this would not be a problem, and to keep costs down it's probably likely to deviate more from the production-based thinking.

It would really be good, good news if DTM 2010 would have Audi, MB and Citroen and a new set of rules and regulations. It could be a wonderful rebirth and spectacle!

[noikeee]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Nice!

http://www.motorspor...z1231766279.jpg

That looks awesome. Should be made real, although I think the whole red on chrome/silver/grey is similar to the Vodafone-McLaren-Mercedes image, and they'd likely want a more original color scheme.