64 replies to this topic

[Patrick Atherton]

I have been spending plenty of time spectating on TNF. As I mentioned on another thread, I'm at the age where only a short time ago I couldn't have been less interested in the pre and post-war era, yet now I'm ignited by it, and it's thanks to many people on this thread, particularly Ray Bell .

I couldn't help notice Ray's comments on this thread oh-so-long-ago. I am beginning to share Ray's frustration. Alan Tomlinson would hardly be known by anyone in mainstream motorsport circles today. But his personal story alone, let alone that of the magnificent Lobethal circuit where he spun his magic, is one of the most remarkable and heartwarming tales around. Maybe that's just a little bit of the artist in me.

I'm trying to piece together as many "random facts about AT" as possible, but it's tiring work sifting through all the threads, as good as the search system is. How about we start another thread on Alan- I don't care if it's only the usual suspects like Ray and the very knowledgeable John Medley, or if anyone who's written about these things simply points me in the direction of the threads where these questions have been answered.

Start with these questions;

What got him started in motorsport?
Did I hear correctly that he used his parent's car at an event at Lake Perkolilli?
Did he not race at all after the accident in 1940?

Surely a biography on this man would not be out of the realms of usefulness. Any thoughts Ray?

Cheers
Patrick

[Ray Bell]

Fortunately, since that very early thread it's been possible to convince the members of this forum of the great skill of Allan Tomlinson and the daunting nature of Lobethal...

If you put 'Picturesque lap' into search you'll find the definitive Lobethal thread. Unfortunately most of the photos are no longer linked, but there are some comments in there worth chasing.

Now that Tomlinson lives in New York, we are working to get him to appear as the special guest at the International Motor Racing Research Centre at Watkins Glen. He'll appear, if it can be arranged, as part of a double act with Bill Milliken.

Bill is as old as Allan or a tad older, but raced about a decade later in the US. They will be able to compare the racing in WA with that in the US in that era and tell of their comparative experiences, which you are probably aware Allan is very adept to do.

The audience will largely be an invited one of those most likely to appreciate their presentations and ask the most appropriate questions.

Of course, the most important thing to me is that I can catch up with Allan again when he comes to Lobethal next October.

I believe a '36 Ford coupe was used at Perkolilli, but I don't know the ownership details. I suspect his nature was such that motor sport was bound to befall him. It suited him, it fitted his psyche. And no, he never raced after the crash in 1940. By the time he'd recovered there was no racing anyway and I guess the fire went out before the war ended. He was, from memory, a steward at the 1951 AGP and he presented the trophy to Johnny Walker at Wanneroo Park in 1979.

[Terry Walker]

Alan Tomlinson remained closely connected to Western Australian motor racing for many years, a frequent steward at race meetings among other things. When I interviewed him for "Around the Houses" back inthe 70s, he was mildly surprised that anybody remembered him as a racing driver, or was interested in his racing career. This was, I discovered, a common attitude amongst many of the prewar racers I spoke to.

I last spoke to Alan last year at the opening of the VSCCA headquarters. It was impossible to believe that he was in his 90s. Tall, slim, alert, he could easily have passed for a very fit 75.

[Patrick Atherton]

If they could make a moderately successful movie about Burt Munro (With Sir Antony Hopkins no less!) then sure as hades Alan Tomlinson's "adventure" is a story which should be made known to as many as possible.

Thanks for pointing me to the picturesque lap thread, I'd forgotten about that one. Hats off to you guys for preserving this information, what with Alan's quaint bemusement at the notion that anyone would be interested.

I've scanned the old posts as thoroughly as possible and forgive me if I've missed the answer to this question: Did AGT purchase the MG TA for himself or did it belong to Clem Dwyer, who was associated with an MG dealership am I correct? I am presuming it belonged to him since it is referred to as being sold by AGT to Snow.

Cheers

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Patrick Atherton
If they could make a moderately successful movie about Burt Munro (With Sir Antony Hopkins no less!) then sure as hades Alan Tomlinson's "adventure" is a story which should be made known to as many as possible.

Nice thought, Patrick, but it's a lot easier to film a single machine on a beach or an immense saltpan than to re-create round-the-houses races and road races with lots of competing cars

[Terry Walker]

It was Alan's own car. The Tomlinson family were well-off West Australian industrialists - Tomlinson Steel. A brand new MG TA was not outside Alan's reach.

[Patrick Atherton]

Nice thought, Patrick, but it's a lot easier to film a single machine on a beach or an immense saltpan than to re-create round-the-houses races and road races with lots of competing cars

True, especially with the budget of the AFC. If it was Hollyweird they'd try anything. Authenticity is not too hard to re-create with a budget. You'd get location scouts to find roads which resembled Lobethal circa 1930's.

It's simply such a brilliant story compared to some of the "based on a true story" junk we get peddled.

Thanks Terry, I note that they are now RCR Tomlinson. Good thing they survived the depression.

[fines]

And, if I'm not very much mistaken, the Fast Indian bombed at the box office BIG TIME!

[eldougo]

That Sadly shows how a Good movie is not everbody's cup of tea .

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by fines
And, if I'm not very much mistaken, the Fast Indian bombed at the box office BIG TIME!

I know $18 mllion isn't up there with the all-time greats, but I'd hardly think it's evidence of bombing

[GD66]

Well, with no computer graphics, no explosions, no car chase and no sign of that ****** Brad Pitt, it was always doomed in the States......;)

[fines]

Originally posted by David McKinney

I know $18 mllion isn't up there with the all-time greats, but I'd hardly think it's evidence of bombing

Well, it took a little time of googling to get the actual figures, but it was actually grossing $11m ($5m in US) against production costs of $25m - that's bombing alright!

[Ray Bell]

That's a total surprise to me...

In my survey work I found a heap of people who'd been to see it. I'm sure it's selling well as a DVD as well.

[Patrick Atherton]

Well, with no computer graphics, no explosions, no car chase and no sign of that ****** Brad Pitt, it was always doomed in the States...

Exactly. It was a "feelgood" character film. No intense thriller plot, just a journey. I like that. If it bombed, that's why. Although much of that $25m would have been Sir Antony's salary. Every time he let his antipodean accent slip they should have docked his pay.

[ken devine]

A young Allan Tomlinson after winning tha Albany Grand Prix.in 1938.






URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

[Vitesse2]

Interesting to note the Union Flag on the bonnet ....

[Patrick Atherton]

Love the hand painted numbers.

Albany 1938: the same car as Lobethal 39, with a different body?

[ken devine]

The car was rebodied after the Albany Event. This is Allan on his way to winning the 1939 AGP.












RL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

[fines]

That car is not only rebodied, it's also narrowed considerably! Perhaps the same "entity", but a completely different car, imho.

[Terry Walker]

Just a rebody. The standard TA body was wider than the chassis rails; the new narrow body was flush with them.

I've just discovered a letter to Racing Car News, in 1967, by Bill McLachlan, who ran the Tomlinson TA after WW2. It was his view that the TA was a better racing chassis than the TB or TC.

"Trunnion rollers, instead of the cheaper mass produced shackles, made the old series TA a far better handling car than the later series T types could ever be."

He goes on:

"After coming to a near sticky end in the Australian GP at Point Cook in 1948 I salvaged the motor and fitted it to a 3-pointer and broke the world record for 91 cublic inch class speedboats 3 times, plus every Australian and Australasian record up to and including the unrestricted class. At one stage this old TA motor held almost every speedboar record available in Australia."

Then:

"A further step towards better handling was brought about by the fitting of the first 16 inch wire wheels to any MG in the world. They were made by Eric Morton's company at Bondi (now at Camperdown), they were conceived and tried out by Arthur Rizzo and self at Foleys Hill Climb in 1946, and lowered the record by many seconds."

He appends a list of results for the TA before it was wrecked in 1948:

1939: 1 Australian GP, Lobethal (A Tomlinson)
1946: 3 Under 1500, AGP, Bathurst; 3 FTD Marsden Park; 2 Under 1500 Foleys Hill; 10 NSW GP Bathurst; 3 Under 1500 Championship, Marsden Park; 1 Under 1500 NSW standing 1/4 mile; 1 All powers handicap Strathpine; 3 Under 1500, Strathpine
1947: 1 Under 1500 Championship Marsden Park; 2 Fastest Time Under 1500, NSW GP Nowra; 9 AGP Bathurst + 2nd fastest time under 1500 AGP Bathurst despite wheel collapsing; 2 fastest time, Razorback hillclimb; 1 under 1500 standing 1/4 mile Castlereagh.
1948: DNF crash AGP Point Cook.

End of engine in a racing car. Went on to break many World and Australian records in "Firefly 2", designed by K Barry.

[fines]

I stand corrected! But I must commend the MG designers on the lovely lines of that monoposto, then...;)

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
.....I've just discovered a letter to Racing Car News, in 1967, by Bill McLachlan, who ran the Tomlinson TA after WW2. It was his view that the TA was a better racing chassis than the TB or TC.....

A man who should have known...

The letter is in the December issue, by the way, for anyone who wants to seek it out.

Thanks for drawing it to our attention, Terry, a nice little sidelight.

[john medley]

Ye-e-e-s, except that Bill Maclachlan did not own/drive the Tomlinson TA postwar. My understanding was that his TA Special was based on the John Sherwood/ Alan Crago car that finished well at Bathurst's 1938 Australian Grand Prix -- and in that time the Tomlinson car went from John Barraclough to John Snow to Hope Bartlett to(maybe not directly) Leon Barnard

[Terry Walker]

Mmm. Perhaps McLach was listing the triumphs of TAs, rather than his TA.

[john medley]

And re Post 4 in this thread, most of the ingredients for a documentary on AGT's remarkable and remarkably easy 1939 Australian Grand Prix win are in place: many photos have been collected, AGT interviews have been done, costing and financial support have been organized, some replicas are being built......

[Patrick Atherton]

And re Post 4 in this thread, most of the ingredients for a documentary on AGT's remarkable and remarkably easy 1939 Australian Grand Prix win are in place: many photos have been collected, AGT interviews have been done, costing and financial support have been organized, some replicas are being built......

Literally? Is this an secret/ infant/ pipe dream project or can you elaborate more on this John? "replicas being built" sounds like there is some kind of commitment from somewhere...

They certainly couldn't do it without your mine of information JM.

[Richard Townley]

Just came across this site so I thought I should add another remarkable fact to add to the Tomlinson file ...........15 years after the 1939 Lobethal AGP the chassis of the Tomlinson TA was used by Curley Brydon to finish 2nd outright in 1954 AGP at Southport.


“ The chassis of this car was from the MG TA Special was used by Alan Tomlinson to win the 1939 Australian Grand Prix at Lobethal.
A new single seat body had been built and the supercharged engine from the Patterson-Brydon MG TC Special was fitted.
The TA chassis was used because superior handling and braking mainly because it was fitted with trunnion mounted spring ends rather than the rubber bushed springs of the TC chassis. The steering was also extensively modified to a for and aft system.” For this Australian Grand Prix at Southport the Patterson-Brydon Special was fitted with a non-supercharged engine and was entered as a back up vehicle by Brydon but did not start in the event

Brydon competed with this TA/TC Special at the Albert Park races in March 1955 and went on to his famous win in the Bathurst 100 at Easter 1955.

One of the main reasons why the TA chassis was found to be a superior handler than the TC is because the steering link from the steering box to the steering arm is almost horizontal which eliminates the bump steer effect. This is also achieved when the original TC steering box is replaced with a Datsun steering box as the steering arm angle is reduced.

I think John Gillett has a video of AGT speaking and being interviewed at the MGCC Pre-war meeting in Beechworth in 2006

Another suggestion....... I had never known of this forum before I stumbled across it so maybe Dick Willis could post some info on this forum in the JKL newsletter as I am sure it would be of interest to others. The forum could be improved if the TNF forum could be subdivided with separate Australian Historics Section

[Patrick Atherton]

Thanks for that Richard. Some of those details are somewhere in TNF, Ray would know...

Didn't Alec Mildren have a hand in the ex Tomlinson TA before the Southport AGP?

[john medley]

The documentary ingredients story is all true, I know some of the details and most of the main players, I have recently seen a costing document, I was one of the AGT interviewers on film, I have had my hands on the AGT TA replica, but I think I am probably sworn to secrecy -- not least because one of the main players has just had a serious attack of financial arthritis, which may delay proceedings

I think from memory that the Tomlinson TA went from Leon Barnard( perhaps not directly) to Alec Mildren after Mildren had raced the ex George Pearse TB and sold that on. Mildren then put a monoposto body on the TA chassis with the MG radiator shell. In this form Curley Brydon bought it, put a fatter engine in, changed the nose, and repainted it green -- so it was almost unrecognizable as the singleseater buit by Mildren. In this form the MG was written up in Australian Motor Sports, in the midst of Brydon's great successes with the car. The original body off the Tomlinson car went on John Ralston's TC Special which ended up being one of the BRuderlin and Thomas MGs. I last saw the original body on Leon Thomas' MG at Bathurst in 1959

[Terry Walker]

Here is a shot of the TA's new body before painting, with Alan behind the wheel. Also a front shot, showing how the new body was originally built as an offset monoposto, but as can be see from later photos the cockpit was subsequntly opened out possibly to allow access during pit stops or to accomodate a riding mechanic if needed. (photos courtesy Alan Tomlinson)

[Terry Walker]

And the offside (photo courtesy Alan Tomlinson) :

[fines]

At the risk of sounding dumb, but isn't that the nearside?


P.S. Love the reflection of the rear wheel in the polished body!

[Ray Bell]

I still don't know my nearside from my offside, Michael, and I've been trying to sort it out for forty years!

Richard Townley, welcome to the forum! No, once you get the hang of things you'll see why it's not a good idea to do what you suggest.

This forum isn't about historic racing, it's about motor racing history. Historic racing is touched upon, for sure, but getting information together about what happened in times past is the main goal.

Please don't restrict yourself to this initial post. Introduce yourself in the 'sticky' thread at the top of the page and then set about telling us some of your best stories. I know you have some good ones.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I still don't know my nearside from my offside, Michael, and I've been trying to sort it out for forty years!

Just think about parking, Ray
The left is the side nearest the kerb - yes?
(The rule is different for Americans and persons of the Continental persuasion)

[Jeff Redman]

Gentlemen:

Just a few observations on the Alan Tomlinson TA:
I've always wondered what was done to the engine for it to perform and stay together... the TA block is not noted for being particularly robust, neither was the crankshaft.. or the rods for that matter!

The photographs of the bulge on the 'near' side of the body are also intrigueing as that could normally be explained to accommodate the carburetters - which in the TA's case live with the exhaust manifold on the R/H side. ???

The 'Firefly 2'....
Some time ago the Maritime Museum in Sydney contacted our local MG Car Club seeking a TA block and head for the boat which was undergoing a rebuild at that time.
Bearing in mind the fragile nature of the MPJG engine and the rarity of useable spares, the Club replied expressing interest in acquiring any TA engine which may be found in old boats!
I don't know how it all ended but I believe 'Firefly is now suspended from the Museum's ceiling fitted with what looks like a TA engine.

Some years ago Bob Thorburn, a local instrument fitter ex-Sydney, spoke of involvement with 'Firefly and mentioned the unusual engine mounting with the drive being taken off the engine's nose and not the flywheel end as was usual.
In may ways a great shame Bob is no longer with us.
His recollections would be invaluable on this forum

Cheers.

[john medley]

Alan Tomlinson described his/ Clem Dwyer's meticulous attention to detail. For very young men, they did things that many find remarkable -- lapped finely balanced pistons in a dummy bore then lapped them in the real bores, everything fitted and balanced within tiny tolerances, engine dismantled after every race..... so when Bill Ford and others dismantled the engine postwar expecting to find huge supercharger pressures, big bore, extreme comp ratios etc, all they found was evidence of meticulous attention to detail

The carburettor drew clean air from the left hand side of the cockpit. ie the carburettor mouth was inside the cockpit. Then this clean air went to the supercharger mounted I guess behind that bulge on the left before being pushed through a copper induction pipe over the top of the engine into the induction manifold on the right hand side of the engine. When asked why use copper when they knew that was prone to cracking, AGT indicated that they were aware of the heat loss properties of copper ie those WA youngsters made themselves an intercooler. The bonnet bulge reduced underbonnet temperatures, and probably added to the intercooler efficiencies

[Terry Walker]

Two additions to the Tomlinson photo file:

The only underbonnet shot I've seen of the TA, after the 1940 crash; and Alan Tomlinson in 1996, standing beside another late 30s West Australian MGTA special, a central-seat monoposto. The colour photo was taken at Whiteman Park and Terry MgGrath supplied it.

[Terry Walker]

Aditional comment: I dont know the provenance of the crash photo. It was one I copied from Jack Nelson's photo album in the 1970s.

[Patrick Atherton]

Just think about parking, Ray The left is the side nearest the kerb - yes? (The rule is different for Americans and persons of the Continental persuasion)

Just when I thought I couldn't learn any more from this forum...

[john medley]

As a motor racing historian there are some matters re Alan Tomlinson and his TA that continue to concern me In trying to clarify how he did it, there are at least three possible flies in the ointment:

1.Somehow the length of the Lobethal circuit was incorrectly measured, and made speeds appear faster. We need someone today to do a re measure. Surely Tony Parkinson and his merry men and women did this in 2008. Can we seek a reply from Tony?

2.Somehow the car had secrets we dont know of. Certainly knowledgeable people scoff at the idea that a TA engine could do what that one did -- and stay together. There are at least three problems here -- it appears from lap charts/ performance reported by others/ Alan's own remarkable recollections that it did do those revs/ those speeds/ those laptimes, secondly that when dismantled postwar the engine revealed no remarkable modifications, and thirdly a Western Australian I'm told tried to build a"Tomlinson replica" historic racing car with a bigger engine but it didnt work. There are some balancing issues: a friend with a very quick MG TC reckons the built in headwind stops them at around 128 mph yet AGT reckons he was at or over that maximum speed; Colin Dunne's MG K3 and the AGT TA were closely matched prewar, the K3 lower geared than the TA at Lobethal 1940 yet still capable apparently of speeds over 120 mph -- yet the two cars were never that quick again, whether (TA)driven badly by Hope Bartlett postwar or (K3)driven successfully to a 1953 AGP place by Andy Brown(at the same time what are we to make of the Curley Brydon performances mentioned previously in this thread? Bartlett couldnt get the original car much below 3.30 at 1946 bumpy Bathurst but Brydon got down to around 3.03 1955 Bathurst). On balance I dont think the answer lies here

3. AGT was an exceptional racing driver who at 22 was a veteran as well as a smart engineer. If Clem Dwyer "The Manager" and Bill Smallwood "The Minder" were correctly labelled by those in that small group, then they undoubtedly got AGT "The Driver" right too. Bill "The Minder"was at State Championship level in serious athletic and strength matters, and Clem was no slouch on 2, 3, or 4 wheels -- also to State Championship performance levels. Clem told others quite freely that despite his own qualities in the driving department that AGT "The Driver" was comfortably 2 seconds per lap quicker than Clem, any where. High compliments indeed. If they were meticulous and painstaking in the extreme(particularly for the youngsters that they were at the time) in their mechanical preparation, then they were likewise with their driving. AGT describes himself back then as a bit of a loner, and of driving quickly on roads near Perth ,often at night,
often doing 200 miles in a session, usually with Clem, and almost always critiquing one another's driving. They clearly wanted to do well, they believed in very thorough preparation, and one gets the impression of a degree of earnest desperation when they went to Lobethal in 1939. Alan had, after all, won 7 in a row in Western Australia, but nevertheless had been warned by British speedway racers passing through WA that they were no chance against the experienced and competitive Eastern Staters. When they got to South Australia in 1939 they continued the meticulous preparation -- mechanical, driving, testing , secrecy. There is at least one subtle trick here: I think perhaps 6 drivers in the 1939 AGP had raced -- on tar -- at Lobethal the year before. John Snow was back from Europe where he raced on tar. The only driver other than these that had tar experience was Alan Tomlinson -- who had 7 straight wins, almost all on WA Round the Houses Tar. The tar might not have been all that flash, but it was better than the dirt that the perceived experienced and competitive Eastern Staters mostly raced on.
Let John Snow have the last word for the moment. He told me in the early 1980s that he closed on the blue WA MG TA up the main street of Lobethal on Snow's first/ Tomlinson's second lap. Snow's Delahaye was one of the quickest sports racing cars in the world at the time, and he confidently expected the bigger, better suspended French car to quickly dispose of the little cart sprung TA very soon. The Delahaye closed up the main street of Lobethal and towards the Gumeracha turnoff, but then to his horror the MG just skipped away from him through that alarming section down past Scubert's (where the later remains of the Itala V8 lay in the paddock on the left for 50 years as evidence of What Happens When Things Go Wrong). Whatever is the length of that section, round high speed bends and over vertical curves and through the trees, the little cart sprung TA often aviating just ran away from Snow not just down to the pits at Mount Torrens corner but along the next straight too. Snow said he was close to Charleston before he passed him.
And one last thing. Temperatures in Southern Australia in the last 10 days through the horror of the Victorian bushfires approximate those in January 1939. January 1939 temperatures in South Australia were, up to last week, the record . It was in those conditions that the clever engineer and driver AGT and his very smart team coaxed the meticulously prepared TA to a famous victory. The situation was made for them: all the cards fell into place. No wonder Alan has said ever since "It was a piece of cake"

[Terry Walker]

The Tomlinson team also had a chocie of diff ratios, and undoubtedly chose the right one for the race.

They werer not "quick change", though. You had to dismantle the back axle to change them.

[Dick Willis]

As John Medley mentioned about Bill Ford's comments when he pulled the engine apart almost ten years after Tomlinson had won the 1939 AGP, I have often wondered if Tomlinson had kept the "trick" engine and fitted a standard engine to the car when he sold it with the blower etc as he ran it.

[john medley]

Dick Willis! Dick Willis! There are people you and I know who used to be used car salesmen who would do that sort of thing. In some ways perhaps yours is a fair call, and I avoided mention of it -- except in the "bigger engine" mention

Alan Tomlinson doesnt strike me as that sort of person. I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again, but there are those who suggest that certain other WA operators who would do that, but not AGT. In addition and perhaps to add confusion, he did not rebuild the car: others in Perth did that. Alan Tomlinson did not see the crash photo (see Terry Walker's post above)until the 1990s, and I am led to understand that he probably didnt see much of the car after his belated return to Perth in late 1940. After John Barraclough was posted to Perth during the war, got to know "The Kids from the West", bought the car and then onsold to John Snow, he made the interesting observation that this Australia's fastest MG had a remarkably NASAL exhaust note. Those in the know suggest that this particular noise means serious motor, supercharged.

One of our problems is that much of the time we are just guessing. One would think that there must be some way of analysing what we have to get answers to some of our problems. If Pomeroy could do his calculations to aid comparisons among old grand prix cars, why cant someone far more mathematical than I do likewise with laptimes and percentages from Lobethal and Bathurst and other locations pre- and post-war?

[Terry Walker]

When the car got back to WA, which was well before Alan did, the boys of the team would have rebuilt the car ready for Alan to race again as soon as he was well enough. By the time Alan came home at the end of 1940, WW2 was well under way, and there was only one more race meeting: January 1941, the Great Southern Flying 50 at Pingelly. I doubt Alan was as yet recovered enough to tackle that race.

So the car would have been all set up with nowhere to race when Barraclough arrived. Alan no doubt sold it when he decided he wasn't going to race again.

[Dick Willis]

Point taken ! I was just going on the comments Bill Ford had made to me some years ago. He was working for Frank Kleinig and Hope Bartlett who then owned the TA was a customer, Bill's instructions from Kleinig were to be very careful when he pulled the engine apart at this was very special car, and engine. To Bill's amazement it was standard inside including the cam timing which he checked. If this was the case then it makes AGT's performances in the car very meritorious indeed.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
When the car got back to WA, which was well before Alan did, the boys of the team would have rebuilt the car ready for Alan to race again as soon as he was well enough. By the time Alan came home at the end of 1940, WW2 was well under way, and there was only one more race meeting: January 1941, the Great Southern Flying 50 at Pingelly. I doubt Alan was as yet recovered enough to tackle that race.

So the car would have been all set up with nowhere to race when Barraclough arrived. Alan no doubt sold it when he decided he wasn't going to race again.

I don't really want to stir the possum here...but...there are other possibilities...one or all of "the boys" could have taken a punt on Alan not racing again and removed the trick engine for "safekeeping".

Alan himself may have done a deal...and only he knows whether that has any truth to it.

Was the car in the hands of "the boys" all the way back to the West??? could someone have replaced the engine on its way back...

Signed: conspiracy-theories-are-us

[Terry Walker]

Taken as tongue in cheek, but -

Why would anyone do any of the above? It doesn't make any sense.

[Vitesse2]

Following this with interest. One thought which occurs to me is to wonder whether cars had to run on a standard fuel - supplied by the organisers - or whether, as in Europe, you could brew your own? More than a little of the extra power that MB and AU were able to deliver was thanks to special fuels. If Tomlinson and his associates had access to better fuel than his opponents, then that might be a reason for the apparently impossible speeds. What Donohue called the Unfair Advantage .....

Obviously an oversize engine might be a solution, but it would be easily detected if protested.

[terry mcgrath]

dear all
without taking anything away from alan tomlinson or MG's we must not forget that the AGP was a handicap event ie the handicapper assessed your driving ability and the performance of your car and set you off appropriately and in theory everyone arrived at the finish line at the same time.
Without looking at lap times and actuall performances alan told me that being a newcomer to SA the handicapper wasn't right up on his overall performance additionally allan told me he didn't do full laps at full speed in practice but did half a lap and next lap did the other half at full speed so it gave him an overall feel for the circuit and the handicapper really didn't have a feel for his overall performance. This he noted is why he couldn't get away with it the following year the handicapper wasn't going to get caught by the young kid from the west.
It would be good to see actuall lap times for all the AGP cars to get a feel how fast the car actually was
terry

[David McKinney]

Deducting handicaps, Jack Saywell in his P3 Alfa Romeo was fastest over the 147 miles, with John Snow (Delahaye) second, then Tomlinson. The MG's nett time was thus faster than those of the 2.3 Alfa Romeos of Barrett and Crouch, Jack Phillips's V8 special and everyone else.
Certainly not what anyone might reasonably have expected from an MG TA

But I like Vitesse2's fuel-brew theory