20 replies to this topic

[Lee Towers]

Hi

After reading through some of the threads on here, and being in awe of some of the knowledge and pictures on here, I thought someone out there may be able to help me with some problems I'm having when putting together a championship table of the 1991 BTCC season.

It may be a long shot, but here goes -

I am struggling to find out when Matt Neal used number 18, and when he used number 77 in the '91 season. According to my research, Matt drove a Pyramid Motorsport car, possibly alongside Frank Sytner, or maybe David Leslie in a one off round, and I think this would have been the number 18 car. Neal may have taken over this car for the mid season Silverstone round (round 7). However, I think he also used 77, which I think that would have been when he drove in the Auto Trader BMW, possibly alongside Nick Baird. This may have been in the later Oulton Park and Donington rounds.

Also, three more drivers who had one off drives that i am missing car numbers for are -

Valentino Musseti, who drove a private BMW M3 ain the Brands Hatch "double header" round
Tony Brady, who drove a HWR Vauxhall Belmont in the Thruxton round, this may have been number 58
Alistair Fenwick, who drove a private BMW M3, also in the Thruxton round.

Any help with these would also be much appreciated, although again i do realise these are very obscure requests.

Thanks in advance

Regards

[Kevan]

I might have these at home- I was definitely at the Brands double-header, so should have the programme.

The HWR Belmont certainly ran as #58 with regular driver Jeff Wilson- I don't know if Bardy retained the same number for his outing in the car though.

As I recall, Pyramid ran Sytner for most of the season until he called time on his BTCC career towards the end of the season, after which Leslie took over. A second car appeared from time to time. Fenwick's drive might have been in the Pyramid car as well- I've got the 1991 season review article from Autosport at home, so I'll look them up for you later.

[Lee Towers]

If you can get hold of the entry list for the Brands Round that would be great thanks.

I think Sytner appeared somewhat sparodically throughout the season, rather than stopping mid way through. I'm fairly sure that Leslie only did the last round at Silverstone in the Pyramid car (#2 on that occasion, the same as Sytner), finishing a creditble 4th in a really good race.

My thinking behind Brady being #58 is the same as your's, with Wilson running 58 in the few rounds he did that season.

Thanks a lot for the response

Regards

[Kevan]

Hi Lee- haven't had a chance to dig out the original race programme for Brands or the Autosport season review but will do over the weekend. In the meantime, from the notes I'd kept of 1991 BTCC results:

Sytner did the majority of the season for Pyramid- AFAIK he did the first 8 rounds, missed Oulton, then came back for the Brands double-header and Donington before missing the last two rounds. Leslie took over the car for the last round at Silverstone- he'd also had an appearance with Techspeed earlier in the year.


Anyway, to try and answer your original questions:

As far as I can tell, Matt Neal made 3 appearances, each one in a different M3! The first was at the Silverstone GP support, in Pyramid's second car, carrying No18: http://www.supertour...entrants_3.html

The second was at Oulton in the BRR Motorsport car used by Ian Flux in a few rounds-This carried No59 when Flux drove it, don't know what number Neal raced it under.

The third, at Donington late-season was with Techspeed, as you said in Nick Baird's car, so probably carrying No77?

I can't find any mention of Val Musetti at the Brands double-header- He did appear at Donington, in the BRR car driven by Flux and Neal earlier in the season.

Alistair Fenwick's appearance at Thruxton was in the second Pyramid car. I don't know for sure what number he ran with. Bearing in mind that on both the other outings for the second-string Pyramid car (Neal at Silverstone and Godfrey Hall at the last Silverstone round, as seen in this Peter Still pic of the Wilson Belmont shunt....

http://www.stillphot...c91_31.jpg.html

....it ran as 18, then I suspect Fenwick's entry did the same. However, Sytner missed Thruxton and Fenwick was the only Pyramid entry, so I guess there's always a chance he drove the Sytner car as No2- I really don't know without seeing a pic of this one...

Rallycrosser Tony Bardy's outing in the Wilson Belmont we've already covered.

As I said, I'm doing this from my own notes, so I'll dig out the Brands race programme and Autosport season review and check against those

[Lee Towers]

This is all a massive help Kevan, thanks

Looking back over my findings, Musetti did run at Donington, not Brands as you said. I thought he ran in a privateer entry, but if it was a BRR car, i presume it would have been #59, like Flux ran.

As for which number Fenwick drove, it really could be either. Looking at the excellent BTCC Super Touring Website, to me, the #18 car would be more likely. Although confirmation of this would be great if it can be obtained?

In my findings, i have found no record of Neal running in a BRR car, just the #18 car at Silverstone, and then two outings in the #77 car later in the season, at Oulton, and then later in the season at Donington, a race I think he didn't start. If Neal did run #77 at Oulton, it means that #77 at every meeting, driven by Baird, Neal and John Llewellyn. However, you seem fairly certain he ran in a BRR car, so maybe i'm wrong.

As for the #66 car, my findings now have it driven by Whale for the first 4 rounds, then missing for the next rounds at Brands, then driven by Leslie and Silverstone, then driven by Whale at Donington for the double header and Oulton, missing for the Brands doulble header, then back for the next 3 rounds. This is totally ignoring the rained off race at Silvetstone.

To me the Techspeed team seems likely to have run two cars at each round, as it seemed to be a really well run, fairly big team with good sponsership from Auto Trader, even though the cars were never at the front.

Hopefully the Autosport review may answer some of these questions

Thanks again

[wtccdriver]

Hi,
has anybody Race results of 1991 BTCC?

thanks

[hansfohr]

Hi,
has anybody Race results of 1991 BTCC?

thanks

http://en.wikipedia....pionship_season
http://www.supertour...1_entrants.html

[hansfohr]

In my findings, i have found no record of Neal running in a BRR car, just the #18 car at Silverstone, and then two outings in the #77 car later in the season, at Oulton, and then later in the season at Donington, a race I think he didn't start. If Neal did run #77 at Oulton, it means that #77 at every meeting, driven by Baird, Neal and John Llewellyn. However, you seem fairly certain he ran in a BRR car, so maybe i'm wrong.

I can't find any evidence that Neal ran a BRR BMW M3, I second Lee's findings.

As for Brady and Fenwick: they were both non-starters at Thruxton.

Edited by hansfohr, 29 March 2010 - 17:46.

[hansfohr]

To me the Techspeed team seems likely to have run two cars at each round.

Not entirely, they skipped the Brands round in June.

Edited by hansfohr, 29 March 2010 - 17:51.

[wtccdriver]

http://en.wikipedia....pionship_season
http://www.supertour...1_entrants.html

Thanks you for the links, but i search complete results with starting grids.
From 1992 season i have found a Book with results "Touring Car Year 92-93", but 1991 i´ve not found.

[PDS]

I can't find any evidence that Neal ran a BRR BMW M3, I second Lee's findings.

As for Brady and Fenwick: they were both non-starters at Thruxton.

Sorry to revive this thread.

 

Matt Neal DID run #59 at the Oulton Park round in the  BRR Ian Flux BMW M3.

 

I have photos to prove it. They will be online soon. 

[Andrex]

Again, sorry to resurrect this thread, but PDS is correct.

 

Complete results from 1991 can be found here:

 

http://www.touringca.../1991/index.php

[PDS]

Images of Matt Neal at Oulton Park in the Ian Flux BMW.

http://www.touringca...b19cdd#hab19cdd

http://www.touringca...19cdd#h1cc2cb9b

[Lee Towers]

That settles that then! Good site touringcars.net

[subh]

I thought I would add that there is a "Touring Car Year 91" that was published, but it was a 76 page magazine rather than a hardback book, as in subsequent years.  You might look for it on any well known second hand auctions websites.

[guiporsche]

Incidentally, this Super Touring mod for GTR2 has just been released last weekend. My understanding is that it contains race by race grids of the BTCC Super Touring era and I know the authors were quite keen in getting details right. So no photos, but a virtual record nevertheless: https://furinkazen.w...om/furiracemods

[bigears]

I thought I would add that there is a "Touring Car Year 91" that was published, but it was a 76 page magazine rather than a hardback book, as in subsequent years. You might look for it on any well known second hand auctions websites.

Does the magazine cover the turbo years? Just wondered if it covers 1990.

[subh]

Sorry, it just has all results from 1991 - but that does include podium finishers for international series: Italy, Australia, Japan, Sweden, Germany, France and major stand alone races.

[SuperTouringCar]

Thanks you for the links, but i search complete results with starting grids.
From 1992 season i have found a Book with results "Touring Car Year 92-93", but 1991 i´ve not found.

 

Very rare! 

[SuperTouringCar]

30 years since the start of the 1991 BTCC season!

 

https://1990sbtcc.co...at-1991-part-1/

[WonderWoman61]

https://www.motorspo...-championship-3 - A Renault and a Lancia?