27 replies to this topic

[luca]

I'm sure there's a few on here who remember this car.

http://www.atfreefor...&mforum=mk1markhttp://www.atfreefor...&mforum=mk1mark

[WDH74]

I know I've seen photos somewhere. What a find!

[HistoricMustang]

Damn! There are some still out there!

Henry

[Alan Cox]

Some great stuff about the Mini-Buick on Mountgreen's fabulous British Vita website
http://mountgreen.co...ita_D_1964.html

[Duc-Man]

Never heard about something like that. Would somebody explain the background of these cars to me.

Sorry for being from the continent.

Edited 09:46
I just read the thing on the site linked above. There is some background but that leads me to the question why would somebody do something like that...?

[275 GTB-4]

Hmmmm battery plus fuel tank close together equals....

For a minute I thought it was about this currently famous Mini...

http://www.geocities...kola/Viku2.html

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Duc-Man
There is some background but that leads me to the question why would somebody do something like that...? [/B]

Because it's what we did in those days before every detail of everything was legislated for in Rules!
Moreover it worked

[Duc-Man]

It's not so much the big engine in the little car thing that puzzles me. Rear engine and front wheel drive??? Why would anybody do that?

I totally agree with the fact that way too much rules have their thump on racing. I really miss the freedom to do what ever you want and experimenting around as long as nobody is in serious danger. I wish I could have experienced racing in the 60's and early 70's. Being born 1970...I missed that.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Allan Lupton

Because it's what we did in those days before every detail of everything was legislated for in Rules!
Moreover it worked

Amen! We all spent many a night looking up at the ceiling and figuring out how to do those types of things.

It was almost as fun as being on track.

Henry

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Duc-Man
It's not so much the big engine in the little car thing that puzzles me. Rear engine and front wheel drive??? Why would anybody do that?

Because they could?

Maybe this sort of reverse thinking should be applauded after all you equally ask - front engine and rear wheel drive??? Why would anyone do that?

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Stephen W


Because they could?

Maybe this sort of reverse thinking should be applauded after all you equally ask - front engine and rear wheel drive??? Why would anyone do that?

Actually front engine rear drive is sound engineering, where rear engine front drive is not. Think weight transfer on acceleration, for example. Also think sharing work between front and rear wheels.
The Vitamini worked despite its layout not because of it.

[Terry Walker]

The fame of the Buick Mini reached Australia. I remember boggling a little at the rear engine front wheel drive concept. But then I thought of the local driver who stuffed a 5 litre Ford in the back of a Goggomobil coupe (oriignally 360cc or so) and it made perfect sense. If you can do it, do it!

[WDH74]

I've been playing GT Legends a bit lately, and now I wonder if it'd be possible to build that sucker for the game. It'd be a real blast!

-William

[Robin Fairservice]

I can remenber a Mini with a front mounted Cherolet 350 driving the rear wheels. I think thatit had a Jaguar rear end and suspension. I only saw it once as it drove around Brands Hatch a bit slowly, and we never saw it again.

[Lee Nicolle]

In the 90s the Hume Bros ran a 300hp 13B rotary powered Mini as a Sports Sedan with the engine upfront and front wheel drive.It was quite quick though it was a very twitchy thing to race against. I would suspect it would have been scarey to drive, it would have been doing 160+mph at Philip Island and it was a real handful in a straight line yet alone corners!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
In the 90s the Hume Bros ran a 300hp 13B rotary powered Mini as a Sports Sedan with the engine upfront and front wheel drive.It was quite quick though it was a very twitchy thing to race against. I would suspect it would have been scarey to drive, it would have been doing 160+mph at Philip Island and it was a real handful in a straight line yet alone corners!

Brian Waldon may have located that car...the group was certainly interested in finding it...

http://www.motorraci...stralia.com.au/

[Lee Nicolle]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Brian Waldon may have located that car...the group was certainly interested in finding it...

http://www.motorraci...stralia.com.au/

The Super Minis were very strong about 15 years ago and put on some good racing and then most joined in with the normal Sports Sedans too so they got plenty of laps.
But the Hume Mini [which I think was built/ inspired by Paul Gulson] was never a Super Mini with the rotary and would have been 7 or 8 seconds a lap faster on most tracks.

[JtP1]

Originally posted by Allan Lupton

Because it's what we did in those days before every detail of everything was legislated for in Rules!
Moreover it worked

The problem with the car was that it basically didn't work. It was never any quicker round Mallory than a racing Cooper S of its day, although with much fewer gear changes. The main flaw was that the tyres required were not available at the time and ten years later there were other cars just as extreme, with rear wheel drive that worked because they had the tyres.

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by JtP1


The problem with the car was that it basically didn't work. It was never any quicker round Mallory than a racing Cooper S of its day, although with much fewer gear changes. The main flaw was that the tyres required were not available at the time and ten years later there were other cars just as extreme, with rear wheel drive that worked because they had the tyres.

I didn't say it worked well ;)
My memory may be playing tricks, but I thought I read of it doing well at Oulton, which I think has more scope for a powerful thing with poor roadholding than Mallory does.

[petestenning]

Seeing mention of British Vita and looking at thier site do i rember rightly that along with Geoff wood in the early 70's there were two other drivers of BV cars John Hipkiss? and Graham Lloyd ?.

These seem to ring a bell .


Pete

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle

The Super Minis were very strong about 15 years ago and put on some good racing and then most joined in with the normal Sports Sedans too so they got plenty of laps.

But the Hume Mini [which I think was built/ inspired by Paul Gulson] was never a Super Mini with the rotary and would have been 7 or 8 seconds a lap faster on most tracks.

Yes...a Sports Sedan...however, and I quote: "The Hume Brothers ran a quick sports sedan in the 80's. Had 13B mated to a Mini transmission - Bloody quick car. Last time I saw it run was in a Super Mini series race at Winton 6 Dec 1987" unquote....obviously by invitation, but did run.

More related quotes for the discussion:

From memory, I think the Gulson car ran a 13B and Hewland. Sports Sedans back then had few rules 'cept original floorpan and roof. It had to stay fwd. Amazing car though for the era! The problem was the layout of the engine, gearbox and differential had to be set out in the same orientation as the original engine. This was the rule that led to Geoghegan running two Hewlands in his Monaro and a change to this rule led to the end of the Gardiner/Grice Corvair. The rotary mini with a Hewland does not run the driveline in the right format to be legal.

it was pushing on the edge of being legal when he built it but by the 80s it was totally legal as the rules were changed to allow a new generation of cars to be built like the Saabs and Camiras to be built from front drive to rear drive, Paul was only not allowed to run it in Supermini racing because they had a rule where the originally gearbox case had to be used hence Warwick Agustins car had the toyota driving through a mini box,


Two believed to be still in VIC. The rotary Hume Bros/and Doug Byrnes old car /last owner was John Bell (a Policeman)

Unquote

[D-Type]

Presumably the terms "Super Mini" and "Sports Sedan" relate to Australian national series?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by D-Type
Presumably the terms "Super Mini" and "Sports Sedan" relate to Australian national series?

Yes...they do (in this case)

and then, in QLD, there is "Mad Matt the Mini Man's" effort...

http://www.miniman.com.au/black.htm

[Morris S]

Major thread swerve going on here !?

The BVRT Buick Mini was made just because...Harry Ratcliffe could ! Mainly as a publicity exercise, it featured on the evening news one night when Stuart Hall took it round Outlon park. John Cooper himself was taken for a spin once and Harry recounted that as he slid down the passenger seat he turned an odd shade of puce !

It's a fantastic discovery and shows untouched original cars are still out there under railway arches and the like, it's so refreshing to see these 'as discovered' photos which always seem to be missing when a works rally car appears from nowhere fully restored !

[elansprint72]

I forwarded this thread to a friend who was putting big engines into small cars in Manchester in the 60s and he said that he had a "slight involvement" with building the Mini (not surprising the Manchester scene was like a big club in those days), he has some colour slides and is trying to find them (several house moves later!).
One of his other builds was to fit a Jag engine into a Sprite; this car still exists and is in Australia.
Yet another project involved a rather large supercharger; the car in question won at Oulton Park despite crossing the line backwards with the drive-line locked solid!

Those really were the days, my friends.

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by Morris S
The BVRT Buick Mini was made just because...Harry Ratcliffe could ! ]

Good enough for me, then, as a long-time Harry fan. Remember also that he devised his own fuel injection system for the Minor 1000 racer in 60/61 but found no real advantage and a lot of hassle compared with twin Webers. He was also responsible for developing the Lada 1500 into some sort of rally-series device. I recall a meeting with the Rev Rupert Jones in S France in the mid 80s who was using the development hack as a holiday car. Now there was a good bloke
Roger Lund

[Lee Nicolle]

Originally posted by D-Type
Presumably the terms "Super Mini" and "Sports Sedan" relate to Australian national series?

Aussie Sports sedans are not dissimilar to British Special saloons of past, and are still a current category.
Super Minis were a subclass running Sports Sedan regs but with limitations to specs, and they were very good for some years.Front running cars were all crossflow bigger cube engines and were quite quick. I had some good racing with them in my Holden Torana XU1 with then a 3.3 litre 6. They were very different though as they could not get out of the throttle off a corner and I ended up with one hitting me quite hard, which in turn managed to crush the airfilters down the carby throats!!

275GTB, I always thought the Doug Byrne Mini was BMC powered, it was very quick. It won the Sports Sedan Main Race at Mallala on its reopening meeting in 82?. From memory 52 Sports Sedans entered!

[bradbury west]

I have come across a full page article on the Mini Buick from Autosport December 1964. There are three useful photographs and a sensible write-up by Allan Staniforth. Copyright forbids posting it here, but for those of an inquisitive nature I am happy to scan it and send on for your own personal use and archives. Please e mail me direct.
Roger Lund