26 replies to this topic

[Roger39]

With the thread about Gordon Murray (who came from the same city I did ) I started thinking about his fantastic "fan car" design. I know it only raced once and won the race, but just how good was it, would it have totally dominated over the Lotus?

[Todd]

Well it wasn't as good as Jim Hall's car that it copied, as the fan was traction engine speed dependent. Better to run a second engine to maintain downforce under braking and at apexes, but it was still bound to be more effective than the Lotus.

[eldougo]

I don't remember the track (maybe Donington) late 1970's when Nelson Piquet drove the Fan car and when he finished his ten laps or more he said to me that he was impressed with the grip levels it gave to him in high speed corners,medium speed it got a little nervous you had to be a lot more commited ,slow was good not a problem.
He also said he wished his current F1 car had some of those grip levels.He enjoyed his short drive in Gordon" SUCK" car as he called it. Gordon was their and enjoyed seeing his car out on the track one more time.
I remember warming it up on in the pits and it was great to see the suspension go up and down as it suck itself to the ground when it was given a few more .revs

[Der Pate]

Niki Lauda once said, that the hardest thing at Anderstorp was not to show how easy the win was...

[COUGAR508]

The ease with which Lauda breezed past Andretti's Lotus in that race suggests that the fan-car had considerable potential, but we do not know what potential gremlins were laying in wait. Did Brabham just get lucky, reliability-wise, at Anderstorp?

[lil'chris]

Originally posted by eldougo
I don't remember the track (maybe Donington) late 1970's when Nelson Piquet drove the Fan car

Doug,

It was probably the Gunnar Nilsson trophy event at Donington in 1979.

http://forix.autospo...son-trophy.html


Cheers

Chris

[giacomo]

We should not forget that there was an Alfa Romeo engine in the rear of the fan car. And the reliability troubles of that engines were a huge handicap for Brabham in those years.

[Ronnie792]

Lauda was on ESPN Classic recently here in Holland, saying that the BT46B was the best car he ever drove, bar none. Praise indeed!

[Doug Nye]

It was good enough - that weekend - to win on merit.

What more could one ask of a racing car?

DCN

[Giraffe]

In some ways it's a shame they didn't let it run again as it may well have instigated a fan-car generation, and it would have been interesting to see other teams versions of it, but as it is, it remains an Icon.

[f1steveuk]

I was a little dissapointed when Mr E told us the 46b was to be restored, as it was nice and original, but it's his car! Robert Dean got to drive it at Goodwood, but I don't think the fan was connected.

I tinkered with it, pre restoration, and spoke to Gordon about it, and he was under no illusions, it was a temporary fix, until the twin fan design could be built, but of course BCE withdrew the car. It was not a simple "bolt on" mod either. The fan gave considerable trouble, originating as a tank engine cooling fan, which flew to pieces at high rev's, and ultimately the tank fan design was kept, but made from better materials in house. Gordon also said the cooling element was "marginal".

I never asked him why the 46b had a pitot tube and the 46 didn't, e.g what was the pitot tube "adjusting", and I know before the twin fan car was designed (I have seen some drawings of it) Gordon was desperate to design a "proper" pit lane fan cover, as in Sweden it was a rubber dustbin lid......

[fines]

Yeah, I remember that! Looked terribly crummy...

[Spitfire]

It's actually hard to think of another car that come upon the scene, and dominated so immediately. Can the W196 or 49 even compare?

As much as we bemoan the banning of creative technology, the thought of a field of fully sorted fan cars flying around 1970's tracks, is a little worrysome.

[stevewf1]

I remember reading at the time that other drivers complained that the "fan car" sucked up debris from the track and pitched it at them as they were following. Whether this was fact or "sour grapes", I don't know...

[D-Type]

I remember reading at the time that other drivers complained that the "fan car" sucked up debris from the track and pitched it at them as they were following. Whether this was fact or "sour grapes", I don't know...

Well, they couldn't complain on the basis that t it blew them into the weeds, could they?

[ghinzani]

The thing is the safety levels of the cars and their ability to survive big crashes would not have been at the level required of the cornering speeds generated by the cars, and we could have had a 1994 situation but worse, especially with the potential for these cars to have a failure and break away into the crowd. But they would have been awesome to watch if they could be penned in.

[kayemod]

I remember reading at the time that other drivers complained that the "fan car" sucked up debris from the track and pitched it at them as they were following. Whether this was fact or "sour grapes", I don't know...

Probably a fair amount of truth in that I'd imagine, and much the same argument was used in banning the Chaparral 2J.

Rob.

[Tony Matthews]

I remember reading at the time that other drivers complained that the "fan car" sucked up debris from the track and pitched it at them as they were following. Whether this was fact or "sour grapes", I don't know...

Am I the only one who remembers John Watson spinning, going off track and blowing a column of dirt across the track?

[f1steveuk]

I remember a shot of him having spun, but can't recall if the dirt was coming off spinning wheels, or out of a spinning fan. Off to Youtube to have a look!

[Paolo]

Am I the only one who remembers John Watson spinning, going off track and blowing a column of dirt across the track?

Chiti admitted in a late interview that Watson's car was sabotaged to make sure the more popular Lauda would win.
Team drilled holes in the sealing skirts.

[stevewf1]

I looked this up. It's a quote from Mike Lang's Grand Prix! which covers the 1974-1980 seasons...

...once Lauda and Watson were out on the track for the first practice session on Thursday morning some of the drivers from opposing teams started going into the pits complaining that the "fan cars" were susceptible to gathering up debris from the track and blowing it back into their faces when they were running close behind them.

Lang goes on to say that there were also concerns about the fans contravening the regulations concerning movable aerodynamic devices.

[f1steveuk]

Lang goes on to say that there were also concerns about the fans contravening the regulations concerning movable aerodynamic devices.

Hence the reason that fan's "primary" use was cooling..........................

[Ross Stonefeld]

Even Winston Cup cars have cooling fans they turn on behind the safety car

[Doug Nye]

It's actually hard to think of another car that come upon the scene, and dominated so immediately. Can the W196 or 49 even compare?

YES!!! Absolutely.

DCN

[kayemod]

Not disputing anything that's been said about the BT46, but wasn't Anderstorp a slightly 'odd' track that often flattered cars, only to deceive? I'm thinking in particular about the Tyrrell P34, but there have been other cars that went unfeasibly well in Sweden, and then struggled to show comparable form anywhere else. Can't we deduce from that that it was a track that rewarded an unusual combination of qualities? Surely if Bernie, Gordon Murray etc had been convinced they had a car that could win anywhere, they would have put up rather more of a fight against the car's 'voluntary' exclusion?

Rob.

[JacnGille]

I remember reading at the time that other drivers complained that the "fan car" sucked up debris from the track and pitched it at them as they were following. Whether this was fact or "sour grapes", I don't know...

My memory was that it was Andretti who complained to Niki. Niki's reply was "If you don't like it, pass me or f-off".

[Spitfire]

YES!!! Absolutely.

DCN

Well yes, I clearly asked that question way too casually!

The only point I can make in belated defense, is the BT46 dominated a car, that was already dominating the rest of the field.

I'll have to do some digging to find the MB Riems, 49 Zandvoort qualifying/race lap times.

Edited by Spitfire, 16 July 2009 - 02:14.