37 replies to this topic

[stuartbrs]

I know that Karts were made popular in the US. Why do we spell it with a K?

Somewhere I have a 1960`s book that credits Art Ingles (?) with inventing the modern Kart. Who decided it was going to be spelt with a K and why? And when was the "Go" part dropped?

When did Kart racing truly take off and why? Should be a good story in there somewhere. Who was the first recognised driver to graduate from kart racing to proper international fame?

And is it really "the purest form of motorsport" as described by Ayrton Senna. There is a thread here on TNF belittling touring cars, should Kart racers belittle anything that isnt a kart??

[ianselva]

Probably to highlight the difference from the home made wooden carts you play on as a child racing down the pavements and streets.

[Arjan de Roos]

Art Ingles was the inventor of karts. He experimented with a first prototype at the Rose Bowl stadium. A magazine later gave it the name of go kart, as a variation on go cart: a framework on wheels for learning a small child walking.
In fact Ingles invented the kart as a cheap variation to the more expensive racing car, for kids to learn to race. He was also helped by the company McCulloch, producer of lawn mowers. After failed market introduction they were left with 8000 West Bend engines. With a friend called Lou Borelli he made a frame to fit this engine.

Why the 'K'? To distinguish it from this walking frame. Art Ingles worked for Kurtis Kraft, which may have inspired the use of a 'K' for a possible commercial purpose (Kurtis Kraft Kart)?

The word Go was never really dropped. It is used on and off. I guess in Europe we tend to neglect it more frequent. Maybe Go is used more in the renting of karts as well in the arcade games.

Karting was go from the start. Imagine: in 1956 Ingles made the first one while in 1959 Henk Deken from Amstelveen was the first producer (ATAF) in The Netherlands. In the early 60's there were 100 plus manufacturers in the US and Europe.

I suppose those drivers who arrived in F1 around 1977-1979 were the first major graduates from karting: Eddie Cheever, Riccardo Patrese, Elio de Angelis, etc.

Ayrton Senna da Silva may have had the opinion that in karting the duel is in its purest form: man-to-man, with lesser influence from the technical side than in car racing.
I suppose people from karting do not belittle anything else than karting, but rightfully argue that it isnt just another racing category but quite something different in a way.

[Pat Clarke]

Maybe it has to do with the KKK spelling many words, like clan, with a K, hence 'Konklave' 'Kongregation' and
'Konfession'. Maybe thats why Cart was spelled with a 'K' ?

Then again, in the car culture, Custom is often spelled 'Kustom', cars are often painted in 'Kandy Kolors', so perhaps it is a car culture thing?

Me? I think it was just an American thing =]

Pat

[fines]

Wolfgang von Trips raced Karts in the fifties.

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Pat Clarke
Maybe it has to do with the KKK spelling many words, like clan, with a K, hence 'Konklave' 'Kongregation' and
'Konfession'. Maybe thats why Cart was spelled with a 'K' ?

Then again, in the car culture, Custom is often spelled 'Kustom', cars are often painted in 'Kandy Kolors', so perhaps it is a car culture thing?

Me? I think it was just an American thing =]

Pat

I doubt Kart has something to do with the KKK (still active apparently in some parts of Georgia)... I hope not!

Wouldn't it be more a Californian thing? I've seen the spelling Kalifornia several time in various Californian street/urban subculture stuff, hence Kustom?

[David McKinney]

No, Arjan's explanation is about right

Go-carts were not junior Zimmer frames though, but rather little trolleys that toddlers pulled along

The motorised machines were originally spelt differently to distinguish them from these: just calling them 'karts' wouldn't have done, as it would conjour up visions of horse-drawn wagons. It was not until the terms "go-kart, go-karting" etc were more widely known that the 'go' prefix could be dropped without causing too much widespread confusion

[Neuz]

When my brother was born, my dad decided that his name, Kris, should start with a "K" instead of a "C" because it had more flair to it than just a plain old "C". A "C" didn't really do much but a "K", well, look at all the lines it has. He just thought it was more interesting than a C.

Rob

[Bloggsworth]

Kos Americans kan't spell.................................... Color that any way you want, but don't labor over it, you may wear out your tires when you get tyred.

[ensign14]

Some chassis are Kurtis Kraft, others are Curtis-crafted. But neither driven by Chris Craft.

[lil'chris]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
.

I suppose those drivers who arrived in F1 around 1977-1979 were the first major graduates from karting: Eddie Cheever, Riccardo Patrese, Elio de Angelis, etc.

I'd have thought that Ronnie Peterson would have been one of, if not ,the first.

[jgf]

Originally posted by Pils1989


I doubt Kart has something to do with the KKK (still active apparently in some parts of Georgia)...

Unfortunately still active in nearly every state. I grew up in the rural south and, at the ripe old age of 16, was invited by a friends older brother to join. I politely declined (no use getting these dunce cap wearing ...s mad at me), graduated high school a year later, moved away and never looked back.

And I truly doubt they had anythign to do with Karting, or vice versa.

[Steffe Ornerdal]

In 1963, Ronnie Peterson and Toine Hezemans was top drivers in European "Formula K" aka Go-Karts.
Keke Rosberg was Nordic (Scandinavian) Kart-champion 1966.

[speedman13]

The first British kart driver to reach F1 was Roger Williamson.

[philippe charuest]

Originally posted by lil'chris


I'd have thought that Ronnie Peterson would have been one of, if not ,the first.

yep the 1970 "generation" .peterson fittipaldi ,cevert

[ghinzani]

Maybe it was something akin to this?

Tourist: Yes. I'm sorry I can't say the letter 'B'.
Bounder: 'C'?
Tourist: Yes, that's right. It's all due to a trauma I suffered when I was a spoolboy. I was attacked by a bat.
Bounder: A cat?
Tourist: No a bat.
Bounder: Can you say the letter 'K'?
Tourist: Oh yes. Khaki, king, kettle, Kuwait, Keble Bollege Oxford.
Bounder: Why don't you use the letter 'K' instead of the letter 'C'?
Tourist: What you mean ... spell bolour with a 'K'?
Bounder: Yes.
Tourist: Kolour. Oh, that's very good, I never thought of that.

[Gerr]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
Art Ingles was the inventor of karts. He experimented with a first prototype at the Rose Bowl stadium.

Not in the stadium. In the Rose Bowl parking lot, area K.

[philippe charuest]

talking of "K" its ironic that italy became the Karting superpower . cause theres no "k" in italian

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by philippe charuest
talking of "K" its ironic that italy became the Karting superpower . cause theres no "k" in italian

Do they race in go-charti there?

[philippe charuest]

no they use the k when its a foreign word ; so its kart ,karting and kartodromo wich sound much better then kart track

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Pils1989

Wouldn't it be more a Californian thing? I've seen the spelling Kalifornia several time in various Californian street/urban subculture stuff, hence Kustom?

Toine, no...

The term "Kustom" pre-dates any of the kiddie korps using "Kalifornia" for many years. Some of those using "Kalifornia" use it as a perjorative. To me, it should be considered a perjorative just for it's affectation alone

These folks are the same that use "Xtreme"

Really, it's just someone trying to sell a clothing line.

As far as why the K in Kart...I have no idea.

There is no "k" in Spanish either.

[Paul Parker]

Originally posted by philippe charuest
talking of "K" its ironic that italy became the Karting superpower . cause theres no "k" in italian

Only two days ago I was looking at a photo of Stirling Moss driving a works Maser 250F during practice for the 1956 Belgian GP which had no number but a K on its flanks.

[RStock]

I have to say I'm not so sure about Art Ingles "inventing" Karts in 1956 . Growing up in suburban US , we refered to any motorised 4 wheel machine (all powered by lawn motor engines) as "Go-Carts" .

Here's a couple of photos from 1952 of what we would have refered to as a "Go-Cart" .





These are basically the same thing as Art Ingles "Kart" . A 4 wheel frame powered by a lawn mower engine with throttle and brakes . They were constructed from kits you could order . I used to have an old magazine , the only reason I kept it was due to the ad in it for these machines . It was from the late 40's and I'm pretty sure it refered to them as "Midget Sprint Go-Carts" . I think it's more of a question of when "Kart" was first used to describe them , as to when they were invented .

Now mind you , I could be wrong . What are refered to as "TQ" or "3/4 midgets" have been around a long time , but the one in the photos above seem a bit smaller than them .

[canon1753]

I think that's a quarter midget, a little oval racing car. It looks too car like to be a kart, but they've been around for a long time.

[RStock]

Originally posted by canon1753
I think that's a quarter midget, a little oval racing car. It looks too car like to be a kart, but they've been around for a long time.

Yeah , I can't find the add I spoke of , and all I can find refers to them as 1/4 midget . They have been around since the 40's at least . They still seem like a kart with a body to me .

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman

Toine, no...

The term "Kustom" pre-dates any of the kiddie korps using "Kalifornia" for many years. Some of those using "Kalifornia" use it as a perjorative. To me, it should be considered a perjorative just for it's affectation alone

These folks are the same that use "Xtreme"

Really, it's just someone trying to sell a clothing line.

As far as why the K in Kart...I have no idea.

There is no "k" in Spanish either.

Ok, thank you:)
I didn't know it was perjorative, I'm sorry:)

[Terry Walker]

I think it went rather like this:

Go-cart was the household name of a type of kids car. Being well established in everyday language, it couldn't be adopted as a trade mark.

A manufacturer of very popular racing models used the name Go-Kart, which could be trademarked. When racing got well underway, you could hardly call it Go-Kart racing if a lot of the vehicles weren't made by Go-Kart, so Kart was adopted as the generic label.

This is a genuine Go-Kart:

[Leo D]

Think Go-Kart........ Think Duffy Livingston.

Duffy Livingston and Roy Desbrow used to run a mufler shop in Los Angeles before they went into the Karting business..... the company Go-Kart Manufacturing.

Duffy was actually in Australia last November, together with another of the founders of karting , Faye Pierson (Bug Karts). The vintage kart scene seems to be growing pretty well at the moment. January saw the annual vintage kart meeting held at Adams Kartway in CA, with Duffy and Faye in attendance.

The 50th Anniversary of Karting in Tasmania is being held in Burnie on the weekend commencing March 7th 2009.

[Rob29]

Story I remember was that Go-Karting was invented by some american airmen based in UK-maybe Greenham Common? around late 50s.

[Tony Matthews]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
There is no "k" in Spanish either.

No, otherwise it would be 'Spankish'....I'll get my coat...

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
No, otherwise it would be 'Spankish'

And Mosley's second language?

[Tony Matthews]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
And Mosley's second language?

I didn't want to be controversial...

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Pils1989


Ok, thank you:)
I didn't know it was perjorative, I'm sorry:)

Antoine, no problem at all. It in itself isn't a perjorative...some use it that way. Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

Mainly it's just bad spelling

[f1steveuk]

Originally posted by ghinzani
Maybe it was something akin to this?

Tourist: Yes. I'm sorry I can't say the letter 'B'.
Bounder: 'C'?
Tourist: Yes, that's right. It's all due to a trauma I suffered when I was a spoolboy. I was attacked by a bat.
Bounder: A cat?
Tourist: No a bat.
Bounder: Can you say the letter 'K'?
Tourist: Oh yes. Khaki, king, kettle, Kuwait, Keble Bollege Oxford.
Bounder: Why don't you use the letter 'K' instead of the letter 'C'?
Tourist: What you mean ... spell bolour with a 'K'?
Bounder: Yes.
Tourist: Kolour. Oh, that's very good, I never thought of that.

There's another line to that too "what a silly ......."

What year was the American kart invented? Norris Bros designed and built one in 1954/5

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman

Antoine, no problem at all. It in itself isn't a perjorative...some use it that way. Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

Mainly it's just bad spelling

Correct spelling in Polish, Finnish and Hungarian
http://en.wiktionary...wiki/Kalifornia

[dbw]

if you look carefully the 1/4 midget was a scaled down sprinter [with transverse leaf springs and nerf bars]....go karts did away with all the detail stuff and just welded the front axle in place with the rear axle bearings welded to the frame..along with a minimum of most everything....as a note most all early go kart activity involved rather crazy adults---not kids.

in high school i learned to do 4 wheel drifts on a beat-up clinton powered kart on a sand sprinkled playground at an old boarded up school...a year later, that experience helped when i got my first sports car..a beat-up '57 speedster. [no sand needed there!!]

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Pils1989


Correct spelling in Polish, Finnish and Hungarian
http://en.wiktionary...wiki/Kalifornia

Good point Antoine

I should have stated bad spelling in English, obviously perfectly good spelling in Polish, Finnish and Hungarian.

Somehow, I think those using it to market clothing aren't Polish, Finnish or Hungarian (though I am aware of some Polish and Hungarian immigrants to California).

[coupekarter]

Does anybody have any more info about either Von Trips karting experiences, or the Norris kart?