41 replies to this topic

[Nanni Dietrich]

What does it mean the "E Z" sign?

A quote by the article "Sacramento 1959" by Donald Davidson, magazine Open Wheel issue December 1982:
<<... On the 37th lap Hurtubise was successful in his challenge of Bettenhausen as the pink #3 moved up to second place. Wally Meskowski gave Sachs the "E Z" sign at 40 laps, but sadly, Sach's long lead was about to go up in smoke. Four laps later, Eddie was behind the pits, out of the race...>>

I remeber I've seen something similar in Howard Hawks' legendary movie "Red Line 7000", when one member of the pit crew gave his driver a table with the "E Z" sign.
But I remember, at the time I did not understand what it did mean. And I still don't know.

[Nigel Beresford]

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
What does it mean the "E Z" sign?

A quote by the article "Sacramento 1959" by Donald Davidson, magazine Open Wheel issue December 1982:
<<... On the 37th lap Hurtubise was successful in his challenge of Bettenhausen as the pink #3 moved up to second place. Wally Meskowski gave Sachs the "E Z" sign at 40 laps, but sadly, Sach's long lead was about to go up in smoke. Four laps later, Eddie was behind the pits, out of the race...>>

I remeber I've seen something similar in Howard Hawks' legendary movie "Red Line 7000", when one member of the pit crew gave his driver a table with the "E Z" sign.
But I remember, at the time I did not understand what it did mean. And I still don't know.

Americans pronounce "Z" as "Zee", so "EZ" is a shorthand way of telling the driver to take it easy...

Brits, Australians etc. (I think Canadians too?) pronounce "Z" as "Zed", so Ezed makes no sense at all....

Nigel

[Tim Murray]

Very OT (sorry) but my other half gets cross with me when I insist on calling a certain American (so-called) music star "Jay-Zed".

[David McKinney]

...as a lot of us do
When he's at Glastonbury, he's Jay-Zed

[Nigel Beresford]

Originally posted by David McKinney
...as a lot of us do
When he's at Glastonbury, he's Jay-Zed

And, of course, Zed Zed Top (as I heard them called once in a Norwich pub).

[Buford]

Zed???? WTF (how do you pronounce that?)
Zed?....... ZED???????

[Nigel Beresford]

Originally posted by Buford
Zed???? WTF (how do you pronounce that?)
Zed?....... ZED???????

Rhymes with said, head, bed

[Cirrus]

And, of course, Zed Zed Top (as I heard them called once in a Norwich pub)

And, of course, "The Blink One Hundred and Eighty-Two's"

It reminds me of a mate (sadly deceased) whose desk had telephone extension 3427. He insisted on picking up the phone and saying "Three Thousand Four Hundred and Twenty-Seven..."

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Cirrus
And, of course, "The Blink One Hundred and Eighty-Two's"

DCN

[Tim Murray]

A popular beat combo, I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink-182

[Tony Matthews]

Originally posted by Nigel Beresford


And, of course, Zed Zed Top (as I heard them called once in a Norwich pub).

A mistake also made by our own dear Tony Blackburn who introduced them as "Zed Zed Top, America's answer to Staus Quo!" Is it possible to make more blunders in such a short sentence?

[cpbell]

Dragging this discussion on-topic , I recall that, during the 1955 GP season, Neubauer signalled Fangio and Moss to hold station at a pre-determined point in the race by holding-out a board saying "RG", supoosedly meaning "Regulare", as Fangio and Neubauer communicated in Italian.

[Tim Murray]

Which could explain why Moss famously misread the signal shown to him in the 1958 Portuguese GP as 'HAW REG' (Hawthorn regular) instead of 'HAW REC' (Hawthorn has broken the lap record and will gain an extra point unless you do something about it).

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Nigel Beresford


And, of course, Zed Zed Top (as I heard them called once in a Norwich pub).

This and the Blink One Hundred And Eighty-Twos reminds me of a newscaster in Fresno who reported that the popular Australian rock band "Inks" played Fresno that night

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Which could explain why Moss famously misread the signal shown to him in the 1958 Portuguese GP as 'HAW REG' (Hawthorn regular) instead of 'HAW REC' (Hawthorn has broken the lap record and will gain an extra point unless you do something about it).

Which of course sounds better than "I missed a gearchange trying to keep up with Tony Brooks at Spa and broke the engine". Arguably that was when SCM really lost the 1958 Championship. (says he with the 100% wisdom of hindsight)

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman

This and the Blink One Hundred And Eighty-Twos reminds me of a newscaster in Fresno who reported that the popular Australian rock band "Inks" played Fresno that night

Oh dear, that strikes a sadly similar chord Jim...

(I now manage a band, which is how I had my own 'wake-up' call!)

[RStock]

What's a Jay-Zed , or Jay-Z , or whatever ?

[Docc]

I never knew how the 240Zed..or Zed28...or any GTZED..were pronounced..uh..over there..

[mikeC]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


A mistake also made by our own dear Tony Blackburn who introduced them as "Zed Zed Top, America's answer to Staus Quo!" Is it possible to make more blunders in such a short sentence?

May I refer you to a well-known and much-loved UK racing commentator (now retired) who managed it all the time

[plannerpower]

There is an exception to the "rule" that Zed is pronounced Zee in North America.

"QRZ" is radio amateur shorthand for "Who is calling?"; US amateurs who wish to be unambiguously understood will pronounce it as "Queue Arr Zed". In my experience, "Queue Arr Zee" is uncommon.

http://forums.qrz.co...onunciation zed

That is today's piece of useless & irrelevant information.

73, VK2TIL.

[Lotus23]

My dad, a U.S. citizen, spent a couple of years living/working in Alberta, Canada as a teenager in the early 1930s. He told me that when he returned to the U.S., the border guards made him recite the full alphabet: they were trying to catch anyone who said the final letter as "Zed", indicating that the speaker was not from the U.S.

Apparently that was what passed for high tech 76 years ago.

[Lotus23]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought for sure it would be about the Most Famous E-Z Sign Of All: the Mauri Rose/Bill Holland contretemps at Indy.

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by Lotus23
When I saw the title of this thread, I thought for sure it would be about the Most Famous E-Z Sign Of All: the Mauri Rose/Bill Holland contretemps at Indy.

For they who don't know that story:

Mauri Rose and Bill holland were team mates in the Lou Moore owned Blue Crown team in 1947. the two cars they drove were brand new and each had costed Moore a small fortune.
Rookie Holland was leading the race with Moore (a previous winner already, be it a co winner [1941]) in pursuit. Moore had spend a fortune on building the two FWD cars and feared that the drivers would battle themselves into retirements instead of cashing in a double victory. So he gave the signal E Z to his drivers.
Holland did slow down, Rose didn't. Holland then assumed that Rose was a lap behind and waved his team mate by, into the lead.
Once the distance was big enough, Rose got signals he was leading, Bill was left in the dark about his position. Only after the finish he found out that he had given away teh victory and was furious. Friends of him told him to cool down an not jeopardise his chance to drive the best car next year again.

Moore had his investments back with winning that double in 1947, thanks to the E-Z sign.

But there is a second E-Z signal to tell about: again involving Lou Moore, Mauri rose and Bill Holland.

In 1948 Holland couldn't keep up with Rose.

In 1949 however it was back to 1947 again with Holland leading and Rose second.
Again the E Z came out in order to protect positions and the paychecks that came with it. And again, Rose refused to follow the instructions. But this time Holland didn't slow down either.
It ended when Rose's car broke down with 7 laps to go, Holland became the winner.
Lou Moore had a third car out that race ( a rear wheel drive driven by George Connor) that eventually finshed third. But he lost out on 3 consecutive double victories due to Rose's lack of team spirit.
Moore had a 1-3 in 1947 but it could have been a 1-2-4 because of Rose's ego. (Some say that a racing driver never must give up but in this case I can't agree with that.)

Back in the pits after his retirement Rose complained about his car having broken down. Lou Moore was so angry about such a comment by Rose who had literally given away 2nd place and a small fortune in prize money with it that he fired Rose on the spot. Remember: Moore only got money for 3rd in addition to the winner's purse but he could have ended up with 2nd and 4th place prize money too. His anger with Rose is thus more that justified.

it says something about the coolness of Mauri Rose that, after having lost the Blue Crown ride, he was still among the first drivers who visited Duke Nalon in the hospital that very same afternoon. Nalon was hospitalized after the legendary fiery crash he had in the 23rd lap with the Novi in the third turn.

for a long time, Lou Moore was the only entrant ever who had two consecutive double victories behind his name and 3 consecutive victories.
Roger Penske matched the three consecutive victories in 2001, 2002 and 2003. But the record of Moore for having 2 cars entered in two conseciteve years and both cars finishn in the first two places in these years still stand.

Henri




Henri

[fines]

Who's to say that Mauri's car wouldn't have broken down if he'd slowed down? A broken magneto strap, surely the result of the rough brick surface. Bad car preparation, shouldn't have happened. Moore was an excellent car owner, but he let his emotions run amok. Rose was right.

[Lotus23]

Buford has already weighed in on this thread (post #6).

It would be interesting to hear his observations re: Lou Moore. istr he's had some in the past.

[Buford]

No not Lou Moore - I have no knowledge about him other than books. Pretty much before my time. You may be thinking about Mike Boyle who my dad knew and sat in his box in turn one.

[Twin Window]

From memory Rizla - the 'roll your own' cigarette paper manufacturer - had a product in the 1980s called 'E-Z Wider'. I presume the rolling paper concerned was, well, wider - and perhaps easier to use too!

Again from memory, teams benefitting from Rizla sponsorship often changed their branding from 'Rizla+' to 'E-Z Wider' for certain North American races. March Grand Prix in 1981 springs to mind, as does Michael Rosen in Formula Atlantic.

[plannerpower]

'E-Z Wider'

Perhaps the name was trading on the popularity of a film of that name.

Sorry; couldn't resist.

[David McKinney]

I connect the name with Atlantics in earlier days than Mike Rosen's - Howdy Holmes, was it?

[fines]

Originally posted by Twin Window
From memory Rizla - the 'roll your own' cigarette paper manufacturer - had a product in the 1980s called 'E-Z Wider'. I presume the rolling paper concerned was, well, wider - and perhaps easier to use too!

Not sure, but maybe it was intended for a certain 'sort' of cigarette...

;)

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by fines
Who's to say that Mauri's car wouldn't have broken down if he'd slowed down? A broken magneto strap, surely the result of the rough brick surface. Bad car preparation, shouldn't have happened. Moore was an excellent car owner, but he let his emotions run amok. Rose was right.

Given the fact that Rose could become the first "threepeater" and "fourtimer" (break the tie with Meyer en Shaw, if we rate his co'victory of 1941 as a full victory) there is something to say for it, I agree. Rose could have driven Holland into retirement Like Some say that Foyt did with Johncock in 1977.

But seen from Moore's point of view: who won really didn't matter to him, as long as one of them won. And if he ended with second place as well, that was even better, money wise. Don't forget, the cars had cost Moore a small fortune to built and I think that there is reason to believe that maintaining them and preparing them wasn't cheap either. The more while Indy was the only race of the year in which they could earn money for Moore. These FWD's were no cars that could be used on dirt tracks or anywhere else to race for victory.
From what I have understood, Rose was at quite a distance from Holland at that time and in order to get Holland had to ask more from his car than Holland had to ask from it to defend his position. Thereby, Rose had to take a larger risk which could result into retirement.
Given the fact that Moore had provided him with a winning car twice already, and only being headed by his teammate, I think that Mauri could have kept a better eye on the interests of his team owner instead and, when finding out that Bill was uncatchable, should have settled for second instead.

From a driver's point of view I entirely agree with your opinion and think it is defendable.
But Moore's opinions and situation can't be overlooked and given what he provided to Rose, I find Rose's behaviour questionable. The more with the events of 1947 in mind as well.
But maybe I am too much focusssed on the team owner's priorities then the driver.


Henri

[fines]

Henri, we agree in principle - Moore, of course, had every right to be disappointed by the result, and outraged by Rose's lack of discipline. But my point was that Rose didn't crash, nor did Holland, despite the pressure. They both behaved like professional racing drivers! The car broke down because of bad preparation, not because of undue stress. Again, I have the highest of esteem for Lou Moore, the best team manager of his time, perhaps of all time (give or take a Penske...), but he should have slept a night or two before making a decision on his contractual relationship with Mauri Rose... it would have benefitted him.;)

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by fines
Henri, we agree in principle - Moore, of course, had every right to be disappointed by the result, and outraged by Rose's lack of discipline. But my point was that Rose didn't crash, nor did Holland, despite the pressure. They both behaved like professional racing drivers! The car broke down because of bad preparation, not because of undue stress. Again, I have the highest of esteem for Lou Moore, the best team manager of his time, perhaps of all time (give or take a Penske...), but he should have slept a night or two before making a decision on his contractual relationship with Mauri Rose... it would have benefitted him.;)

Michael,

Always good to see that we're often on the same side, if not always within the same corner....

Can you explain a bit more about your last comments about Moore's contractual relationship with Rose? I am curuous about your vision on that. If you don't want to share it publicly (here) , please PM me then.

Thanks,

henri

[Lotus23]

Sorry, Buford. Senior Moment on my part.

Note to self: Lou Moore and Mike Boyle are 2 different people...

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


A mistake also made by our own dear Tony Blackburn who introduced them as "Zed Zed Top, America's answer to Staus Quo!" Is it possible to make more blunders in such a short sentence?

Hopelessly irrelevant and completely off-topic, but where else am I gong to fit this one in? Many years ago, I heard the very same Tony Blackburn introduce the song Xanadu by Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich as "Ex-an-ay-doo". The earlier post just jogged my memory, and apologies to all who've never heard of Dave Dee etc. Even further from this topic, Tony Blackburn's Dad used to be my GP.

[fines]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter


Michael,

Always good to see that we're often on the same side, if not always within the same corner....

Can you explain a bit more about your last comments about Moore's contractual relationship with Rose? I am curuous about your vision on that. If you don't want to share it publicly (here) , please PM me then.

Thanks,

henri

Ah, nothing really, just clumsy wording I'm afraid. What I wanted to say is simply that he let a very good driver go that day, and he shouldn't have.

[lil'chris]

Originally posted by plannerpower
There is an exception to the "rule" that Zed is pronounced Zee in North America.

Don't Canadians pronounce Z as Zed rather than Zee ? The Rush track YYZ ( refers to Toronto airport code ) is AFAIK pronounced Why Why Zed

Chris

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by lil'chris
Don't Canadians pronounce Z as Zed rather than Zee ?

See post 21.

[markpde]

Would it be true to say that in America the Porsche 917 is a 'nine-seventeen', while over here it's a 'nine-one-seven'?

Edit - just checked a couple of videos on YouTube - Vic Elford calls it 'nine-seventeen'; Derek Bell, 'nine-one-seven'!

[cpbell]

When I think of drivers failing to observe team instructions, I always think Imola 1982...

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by cpbell
When I think of drivers failing to observe team instructions, I always think Imola 1982...

Or Brazil 1981 and France 1982 .....


Henri

[lil'chris]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
See post 21.

Ah I assumed that meant anybody entering the US from Canada whether Canadian or other