26 replies to this topic

[Buford]

I have a calender called "BackTrack" I got in 1987. It chronicles the 1959 USAC Racing season in the squares on the days of the calender along with lots of photos. Many entries for injuries, deaths, suspensions. Interesting that drivers used to get two day suspensions at Indy for spinning out. Some fatal accident photos including Dick Linder sailing over the wall at Trenton. Van Johnson was also to die in the same car 3 months later it says. Shows George Amick's wreck at Daytona, and Marshall Teague's Sumar streamliner at Daytona before the crash.

Anyway on August 31st the entry is "Bob Wilke announces tentative plans for a 1961 Formula 1 Grand Prix team."

Obviously his Indy 500 win with Rodger Ward had gone to his head and this never came off. Anybody ever hear of this effort going beyond a press announcement? Kind of reminds me of the current situation. Will it end up the same 50 years later?

[Buford]

Also concerning the one and only Indy Car Daytona race, of the 20 drivers who started, 10 died racing. Amazing... can you imagine the uproar that would ensue today if half the drivers at the season opener got killed within the next few years?

RIP - In order of finish, George Amick, Johnny Thompson, Jim Packard, Don Branson, Al Keller, Bill Randall, Jimmy Davies, Jud Larson, Tony Bettenhausen, Eddie Sachs.

[fines]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford
Anyway on August 31st the entry is "Bob Wilke announces tentative plans for a 1961 Formula 1 Grand Prix team."

Obviously his Indy 500 win with Rodger Ward had gone to his head and this never came off. Anybody ever hear of this effort going beyond a press announcement? Kind of reminds me of the current situation. Will it end up the same 50 years later?

Well, didn't he dip a toe in the water in December of that year with an entry at the United States Grand Prix, already testing an engine for the new 1.5-litre Formula?;)

[ray b]

other then his Midget at the first US GP did Roger ever try a GP again ??

did Bob Wilke have any connection to the many private cars run by US drivers at the US GP in 61

[HDonaldCapps]

I remember coming across several references to Wilke's fielding a team when the new formula went into effect in 1961. Keep in mind that there were probably dozens of such announcements of which only a few came even close to fruition. Ward was the motivating factor behind this, of course. As I remember, Wilke began to realize all that was involved and shelved the idea. The biggest problem I remember that was mentioned was getting engines for the team. It was a nice idea and probably could have been realized given some backing, which was probably the real reason it never happened.

[Buford]

Well I have no recollection of that, and I think I would have been excited about it if I had heard about it at the time. Can only guess how many of dozens of track announcements that were just air over the years.

I edited the opening post. Should have said chronicles the 1959 season.

[Jerry Entin]

The announcement was probably made as a result of Rodger Ward and his midget beating the sporty car cars at Lime Rock on July 25. Wilke did enter a midget in the U.S. Grand Prix at Sebring in December that year and entered additional road races with a Porsche 550RS for Ward. Perhaps the Formula One race at Sebring opened his eyes what the real competition was going to look like, since nothing came of his original intentions.

all research Willem Oosthoek

[Buford]

This is interesting in this same history calendar thing. October 18, 1959 it says

"Watkins Glen International, Watkins Glen, New York - 230m miles - Stirling Moss (Cooper Climax), Eddie Johnson, Harry Entwistle. Rain, sleet and snow during the race. Johnson drives one of nine midgets entered in the Formula Libre event. Others Jiggs Peters, Bill Randall, Bob MacLean, Jim Shaffer, Bud Martin, Dutch Schaefer, Bob Harkey, Tony Bonadies."

Nine midgets!!! That must have been hilarious, and I am sure highly pissed off the snooty wine and cheese hand kisser bunch. Anybody know anything about this race?

[RA Historian]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford
This is interesting in this same history calendar thing. October 18, 1959 it says

"Watkins Glen International, Watkins Glen, New York - 230m miles - Stirling Moss (Cooper Climax), Eddie Johnson, Harry Entwistle. Rain, sleet and snow during the race. Johnson drives one of nine midgets entered in the Formula Libre event. Others Jiggs Peters, Bill Randall, Bob MacLean, Jim Shaffer, Bud Martin, Dutch Schaefer, Bob Harkey, Tony Bonadies."

Nine midgets!!! That must have been hilarious, and I am sure highly pissed off the snooty wine and cheese hand kisser bunch. Anybody know anything about this race?

Part of the 1959 USAC Road Racing Division. Since this race was shortly before the big Riverside Times GP it had a poor entry. Stirling Moss was present in a Cooper T-51 entered by the British Racing Partnership. He had no competition at all. At one point he was seven laps ahead of second place, but he eased off and finished five laps ahead. It was, in baseball terms, a laugher. And no, I do not believe the midgets pissed anybody off. They made up the bulk of the Formula Libre field. The hand kisser bunch, as you say, was really not present, save for Moss.
Tom

[RA Historian]

Quote

Originally posted by fines

Well, didn't he dip a toe in the water in December of that year with an entry at the United States Grand Prix, already testing an engine for the new 1.5-litre Formula?;)

Ward ran a K-K midget with standard Offy derived Meyer-Drake four of approx. 1.7 liters, if I recall the displacement correctly. Not an engine test by any means, just more of a lark than anything else. Bob Wilke and Rodger Ward were well aware of what they were up against and had no delusions whatsoever of being competitive.

Bob Wilke was far from a midwest dirt track bumpkin. He was well aware of the requirements of Grand Prix racing. He owned several Ferrari road cars and was very cognizant of GP racing, road racing, etc. His Leader Card Team essentially was a USAC oval racing team, but just for the dickens of it they had a Porsche RS Spyder which they ran on occasion for Ward and for Buzz Hahn. They knew from the start that the RS was not going to be competitive with the later Porsches of the day, the RSK and RS-60, but they just enjoyed the sport of it all. The recurring story of Ward and Wilke thinking that they would blow off the F-1 cars or the Scarabs etc of the day is just that: a myth that refuses to die.

As Col. Capps mentions, there were many stories floated in that time about entry into the new F-1 coming in 1961 and very few of those actually materialized. I submit that Bob Wilke, being interested in road racing, probably was just thinking out loud.

Leader Card briefly ran a Scarab in the USAC road racing championship in 1959. They bought the Nickey Scarab through Jim Jeffords and ran it at Meadowdale and Riverside that year. But it soon became apparent to Jeffords, who retained a 50% ownership in the car, that the Leader Card mechanics were unable to properly prepare the Scarab. Jeffords bought the car back from Leader Card and sold it to Meister Brauser.

Ward did run one further GP a few years later in a car (Lotus 24?) of the Parnell Team

Tom

[RA Historian]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford
I have a calender called "BackTrack" I got in 1987. It chronicles the 1959 USAC Racing season in the squares on the days of the calender along with lots of photos. Many entries for injuries, deaths, suspensions. Interesting that drivers used to get two day suspensions at Indy for spinning out. Some fatal accident photos including Dick Linder sailing over the wall at Trenton. Van Johnson was also to die in the same car 3 months later it says. Shows George Amick's wreck at Daytona, and Marshall Teague's Sumar streamliner at Daytona before the crash.

Talk about bad taste!
Tom

[Buford]

Quote

Originally posted by RA Historian
Talk about bad taste!
Tom

Well there didn't used to be a taste issue in racing about photos of fatal accidents. Thanks for the info.

[WALDO]

I believe you will find that Rodger Ward's Midget was owned by Ken Brenn, wore #24........


Could be wrong........

[Jerry Entin]

From Willem Oosthoek: "Tom, I agree with you that the October 1959 USAC event at Watkins Glen race lacked a top notch field, but it came a week AFTER the Times GP.

Still a good day for Moss, who won $2,000. Earning $1,200, it was good for Eddie Johnson too!"

[RA Historian]

Quote

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
From Willem Oosthoek: "Tom, I agree with you that the October 1959 USAC event at Watkins Glen race lacked a top notch field, but it came a week AFTER the Times GP.

At least I had the right year...
Tom

[RA Historian]

Quote

Originally posted by WALDO
I believe you will find that Rodger Ward's Midget was owned by Ken Brenn,

At Lime Rock. It was the Leader Card midget at Meadowdale in Sept and Sebring in December.

[Buford]

Photo of him in that car captioned

"Rodger Ward in Ken Brenn's midget. Lime Rock, July 25."

Says in the text the car was 11 years old.

[WALDO]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford
Photo of him in that car captioned

"Rodger Ward in Ken Brenn's midget. Lime Rock, July 25."

Says in the text the car was 11 years old.

I believe it was a Kurtis.......

Ken never had anything current......

Closest was a 2 year old Gerhardt in 1968........

Fine could tell us the age of that dirt car you and I saw in 1966-1969.

[Buford]

I don't know what you are talking about - what dirt car? The Sprint Car I drove was 10 years old in 1979. The only spring front car left running WOO at the time. Formerly driven by Bubby Jones among others. The midget I drove in 1975 was the only midget ever built by A.J Watson. That's the extent of my "how old was it" knowledge - what I drove myself.

[WALDO]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford
I don't know what you are talking about - what dirt car? The Sprint Car I drove was 10 years old in 1979. The only spring front car left running WOO at the time. Formerly driven by Bubby Jones among others. The midget I drove in 1975 was the only midget ever built by A.J Watson. That's the extent of my "how old was it" knowledge - what I drove myself.

Who built your sprint???

If you drove the only Watson midget then you drove that midget as I believe it was built in 1959...... Branson won the DuQuoin twin 50s in 1964 I believe.....

Foyt had a 1946 Kurts and won the 1970 Astrodome GP.......

Ken Brenn had one, a Meskowski that he ran in 1966, I believe Wally Dallenbach took one of his first rides in it..... Classic photo of Wally getting lapped by Greg Weld in the #95 Leader Card Watson....
Place the 1966 Bettenhausen 200 (Andretti Benefit).......

For Fines, that could be your so called 1963 Meskowski.......

[Buford]

Quote

Originally posted by WALDO


Who built your sprint???

That I don't know. All I know was I drove it for a guy named Len Tatro, or Tatreau (Tay Tro pronounced) from Kankakee - his son Paul raced in later years in USAC Sprints. They won a big Sprint Car race with it at Atlanta mid 70s. I know Bubby Jones and Boom Boom Cannon drove it when it was still competitive.

Here are photos...







And the Midget - Len told me it was the only one ever built by A.J. Watson - if that isn't true he thought it was.

[RStock]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford



That I don't know. All I know was I drove it for a guy named Len Tatro, or Tatreau (Tay Tro pronounced) from Kankakee - his son Paul raced in later years in USAC Sprints. They won a big Sprint Car race with it at Atlanta mid 70s. I know Bubby Jones and Boom Boom Cannon drove it when it was still competitive.

Jack Elam built some of Bubby's earliest cars , but if Larry Cannon also drove it , it's probably the Wink Bridges owned Tri-R Construction #B-4 car , which was later renumbered #87 when Bubby took it over . That was probably before Elam built his cars though . So I don't know who built it , but I can probably find out if you just want to know . That was a pretty damn good sprint car in it's time .

[Buford]

Wow interesting. Well at the time I drove it, it was way outdated compared to the new stuff the big boys had. But it still had the good engine. A very very good engine. I could run right with Kinser and Swindell down the straights once I finally got it straight and pull up on or away from most everybody. But my corners were a series of pushing and resetting costing all kinds of time. We had no spares or any idea what we were doing so I made do with what I had.

Except the couple times it was accidentally hooked up and then I was actually dangerous, in ways I wasn't usually lol. I qualified 5th of 36 at Sedalia on the mile on the first lap and I got all squirrely coming out of 2 so there was more there. Tie rod broke on the second lap putting me into the wall. But when it didn't have to turn tight turns, it really honked.

[RStock]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford
Wow interesting. Well at the time I drove it, it was way outdated compared to the new stuff the big boys had. But it still had the good engine. A very very good engine. I could run right with Kinser and Swindell down the straights once I finally got it straight and pull up on or away from most everybody. But my corners were a series of pushing and resetting costing all kinds of time. We had no spares or any idea what we were doing so I made do with what I had.

Except the couple times it was accidentally hooked up and then I was actually dangerous, in ways I wasn't usually lol. I qualified 5th of 36 at Sedalia on the mile on the first lap and I got all squirrely coming out of 2 so there was more there. Tie rod broke on the second lap putting me into the wall. But when it didn't have to turn tight turns, it really honked.

Sounds like it was a handfull . I'm just wondering if I ever saw you race .

Is that you in the #68 Midget ? Cause it looks like the driver is wearing glasses , and I thought at first it was Mel Kenyon .

[Buford]

Yeah the Sprint Car was a beast. It didn't turn well but loved to run free and on big open tracks it was somewhat competitive. Pushed bad and we had no parts to change it. Guys in next pit would unload tons of parts, lay 24 shocks on the trailer and argue about which to use. We would look at the only 4 we had, on the car and say, should we use those? Got our wing off a garbage can and never had a front one. We spent $17,000 total car and expenses at a time when $150,000 budgets were common. My best finish was a 6th in a WOO feature

That's me in the midget and yes I wore glasses. I didn't put them on in the still photos because when I showed pics to car owners when I was looking for rides I didn't want to give them any excuse at all, ("He can't see - no damn city talkin' four eyes is driving my car") to not to let me in it. After a couple seasons in a Mini Cooper on my own money, the next 16 years were all raced OPM, other peoples money which meant a lot of begging for rides, no matter where or what, sports cars, midgets, sprints, stock cars, even a drag race once. I was a true Outlaw, meaning a lot of begging and driving junk.




The beginning, not the end of my Sprint Car "career".

http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=3

Post 114 starts my "fireball story" if interested.

[RStock]

Quote

Originally posted by Buford


Post 114 starts my "fireball story" if interested.

I read that and a few others . The old saying "win it or wear it" must have been invented for you . Sounds like you could out "Wild Child" Haud .

I've been to a lot of tracks like that though , and seen some keystone cops moments like the fat firemen in your story .

I actually feel sorry for those who have never been to a dirt track race . They've missed something in life . You see things there you just don't see anywhere else .

[Buford]

Quote

Originally posted by REDARMYSOJA


Sounds like you could out "Wild Child" Haud .

On many occasions I was told I was extremely entertaining. And it was an odd mix of moderate success and total failure all the way through. Like the day I flew in a lear jet with fat cats in the morning and slept in the rain in the back of a pickup truck under a tarp that night. Can't even remember the number of times I left for a race with only enough money to get there and not enough to get back. It was always kind of up and down like that. If I had to describe my racing career in a single word it would be "underfunded."