40 replies to this topic

[RTH]

I have just watched some footage of a hillclimb event from 11th July 1959 at a tarmac venue called Westbrook Hay which the narrator said was in Hertfordshire. It appeared to be a narrow drive possibly leading up to a large country house ? Might it I wonder have been in Herefordshire and been a misreading by the commentator ?

I live in Hertfordshire but I have never heard of this event. Apparently at the time it was at least an annual event and part of the British hillclimb championship. At the time people like Boshier-Jones were leading lights in hillclimb events, we even saw 'Jenks' in a pre-war AC.

Does this ring any bells with anyone, just where was this venue and what was the history past and later, when did it all stop and what is the place used for today I wonder ? Certainly a most attractive backdrop with a wide variety of cars competing.

[RAP]

Westbrook Hay was an RAC Championship event c 1959 / 60 run by the Herts County Automobile & Aero Club. I can't give you its exact location but it was off the A41 south of Berkhampsted.
RAP

[Allan Lupton]

Wesbrook Hay is in TL 0205 (OS Sheet 166)
The line of the A41 has changed as the consequence of road widening/dualling but the drive to Westbrook Hay house was as it is on the map. There's a map of it on p68 of May's "Speed Hill-Climb"
The hillclimb was run (as stated above) by the Herts County Auto and Aero Club and I was (a minor) part of the crew that helped set it up and run it for a couple of times.
The start was quite close to the A41 and the spectators' car park (in the year I was marshalling it) was between the A41 and the canal, so everyone had to cross the A41 - not too difficult then, but unimaginable now.

[simonlewisbooks]

The course hasn't apparentl;y changed much and it's still visible on the Google Maps page below, with the much modified A41 and junction, directly to the north. It wasn't the most complicated of layouts, a long left hander followed by a straight and a right hander immediately before the finish line, which was tighter than the aerial view would suggest. The 1959 film more of less shows all of it.


http://maps.google.c...027466&t=k&z=16

[Leigh Trevail]

In 1952 the Eastern Counties Motor Club held their 2nd Felixstowe Rally. It started at 10pm in Newmarket on Friday 22nd August, it made its way to Dunmow in Essex and then across to Beckhampton for a Hill Climb in the dark. This section was organised by the Chiltern Car Club; so would that have been Westbrook Hay?

As the name or the event suggests the rally concluded in Felixstowe, taking part were Dickie Stoop in his Frazer Nash and Archie Scott Brown in his M.G. The overall winners were two brothers in their first ever event, the Morley twins.

[Allan Lupton]

Chiltern Car Club was based in the High Wycombe area when I knew it, but there's no Beckhampton there and I'm sure Westbrook Hay wouldn't have been called that.
There is a Beckhampton near Avebury, Wiltshire (SU 0868) and there are lots of tracks up the nearby downs which may have been used (now used for racehorses). I think it unlikely that somewhere so far West is the place, but as even minor rallies were often very long in those days, you can't be sure.

[Stephen W]

Westbrook Hay was used for rounds of the British Hillclimb Champioship from 1959 to 1962 inclusive. The course was a rather swift 650 yards. The Paddock was at the bottom of the hill close to the A41 London to Berkhamstead road and at the top of the hill just beyond the collection paddock there was a rather large house.

David Boshier-Jones won the RAC round in 1950 setting a new hill record in 25.46 seconds. He lowered this to 24.06 the following year. The hill record was lowered again in 1962 by Arthur Owen in his Cooper-Climax T53 leaving it at 22.85 seconds.

[Leigh Trevail]

Alan, I am sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once and spelt it wrong. The report in Autosport August 29 1952 (p277) states that the rally ".... travelled to the second road test at Beckhamsted in the Chiltern country. This test was organised and operated by the Chiltern Car Club and comprised a timed hill-climb over a short course including two sharp corners." I have spelt Beckhamsted as it is in the magazine.

The rally programme mentions that the event will go into Hertfordshire and it thanks the Cliltern Car Club. Elsewhere I have seen Hemel Hemstead mentioned with the rally. As I get time I will go through some old notes that I have.

[RTH]

Fantastic information chaps , many thanks.
It would be interesting to see some stills from '59 and some 50 years later now.

[RTH]

I have just been told that Westbrook Hay House is now a private prep school


http://www.westbrookhay.co.uk:80/



Here is a little map with the location

http://www.westbrook...directions.html

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by RTH
I have just been told that Westbrook Hay House is now a private prep school


http://www.westbrookhay.co.uk:80/



Here is a little map with the location

http://www.westbrook...directions.html

I'd bet the pupils would love to have the hillclimb back on their front drive!

[RTH]

I think the Valance Hill Climb in Kent ? ( wasn't it a special needs school ? ) was also a school drive .

Incidentally, with the massive squeeze on public sector spending which the country will surely experience over the next 10 years, following the excessive government spending and debts accumulated in the recent past and the terrible long term mess we are all now facing.
- No doubt government defence and other establishments, premises, grounds, airfields etc will be closed due to public sector cuts.

Rather like post-war Britain in the early 1950s in the austerity period , there just might be some opportunities for new and very basic motor sport venues on remote and redundant , abandoned government defence sites ?

Places like Silverstone have over developed themselves to the point where they have priced themselves way beyond the reach of the impecunious grass roots motor racing fraternity which we all enjoyed so much in the 60s & 70s. Simple basic tarmac course in open fields is all that is required.

[Tony Matthews]

I lived in Hemel Hempstead until about 1956 and I can remember being taken to Westbrook Hay by my father, I'm not sure of the year but certainly it's unlikely to be later than that. Until a few years ago I still had some slides that I took (Halina rangefinder, Perutz film!) including a distant shot of a red Allard hitting the bank very hard in a shower of soil! The event was delayed by some considerable time. I remember the track fairly well, and the 'Big House' at the top.

[Derwent Motorsport]

I was at that event as well as a 12 year old, funnily enough the only thing I remember was the big Allard crashing right in front of me. I see to remember it over turned and got stuck between the banks with the driver unhurt.
I alos have vague memories of another hill climb in Hertfordshire much earlier in the fifties in a sort of park but I would be about 5 at the time!

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Leigh Trevail
Alan, I am sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once and spelt it wrong. The report in Autosport August 29 1952 (p277) states that the rally ".... travelled to the second road test at Beckhamsted in the Chiltern country. This test was organised and operated by the Chiltern Car Club and comprised a timed hill-climb over a short course including two sharp corners." I have spelt Beckhamsted as it is in the magazine.

The rally programme mentions that the event will go into Hertfordshire and it thanks the Cliltern Car Club. Elsewhere I have seen Hemel Hemstead mentioned with the rally. As I get time I will go through some old notes that I have.

Ah, well could have been A/S's typo for Berkhamsted then. Westbrook Hay might have been a poor test for a rally, as there was no return road as such - although there were and are other tracks that could have served.

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
I was at that event as well as a 12 year old, funnily enough the only thing I remember was the big Allard crashing right in front of me. I see to remember it over turned and got stuck between the banks with the driver unhurt.
I alos have vague memories of another hill climb in Hertfordshire much earlier in the fifties in a sort of park but I would be about 5 at the time!

Could that have been Luton Hoo which, although it is not in Hertfordshire, is surrounded by it?
The VSCC ran sprints there in 1948 and 1949 and there's a bit more here

[fuzzi]

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
I was at that event as well as a 12 year old, funnily enough the only thing I remember was the big Allard crashing right in front of me. I see to remember it over turned and got stuck between the banks with the driver unhurt.
I alos have vague memories of another hill climb in Hertfordshire much earlier in the fifties in a sort of park but I would be about 5 at the time!

Could it have been the sprint at Tewin Water? It was a straight line sprint on narrow road alongside a reservoir near Hemel Hempstead. From photographs I have seen that looks like a sort of park location. 5 events were run in the early fifties but the site was soon surrounded by the expansion of the new town.

[Leigh Trevail]

Is it possible to find out who owned the house at Westbrook Hay, presumably they were motor racing enthusiasts and might still have family in the area!

[RTH]

Bit more here and a diagram of the course

http://theracingline...yHillclimb.html

1953 - 62

0.37miles long


This is a website devoted to UK & Ireland Hillclimb venues

http://www.silhouet....racks/gbhc.html


Ten-Tenths thread here on British hillclimb venues and champions

http://www.ten-tenth...ead.php?t=64457

[RTH]

History here of the Herts County Auto and Aero Club the first 95 years

http://www.hertscoun...clubhistory.htm

[RTH]

Originally posted by Leigh Trevail
Is it possible to find out who owned the house at Westbrook Hay, presumably they were motor racing enthusiasts and might still have family in the area!

The house seems to date back to 1686

http://books.google....result&resnum=5

[fuzzi]

While checking Peter Hull's excellent "Racing an Historic Car" for ERA information I came across this
In 1959 the programme said:
"Thanks are also due, perhaps our apologies too, to the Hemel Hempstead Development Corporation, for the use of the road, and to the householders at the top of the hill who are inconvenienced by this madness"

Life was much more polite in those days.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I was under the impression that Westbrook Hay was some kind of school back in the fifties. I cycled up from Barnet to one of the meetings and my only memory is of Peter Stubberfield managing to spin his Bugatti on the very narrow road. It was certainly a very nice venue. The start/finish area can still be seen from the old A41.

[Dutchy]

There was talk of reviving the course a few years ago. There was mention of it in a VSCC newsletter; I wrote in support but heard nothing back.

O/T slightly but wasn't the pre war course at Dancers End close by?

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by Dutchy
There was talk of reviving the course a few years ago. There was mention of it in a VSCC newsletter; I wrote in support but heard nothing back.

O/T slightly but wasn't the pre war course at Dancers End close by?

Yes David Furnell was hoping to revive Westbrook Hay.
Dancer's End is about the same distance from Berkhamsted in the other direction, quite near Tring and the East side of the hill that has Aston Hill on its West.

[RTH]

A friend of mine Christine was in Hemel Hempstead visiting a school on business on thursday and visited the nearby Westbrook Hay private school and took these photographs.


Bottom car park


Near the top looking down hill


Looking down to the middle corner to the right


Looking down towards the car park


entrance area


Entrance from the main road


Car park near bottom of the hill.



She spoke to the Bursar of the school who was aware of the the use of the drive as a hillclimb venue in the 1950s and that one of the school governors had been involved in the past events.

The drive is actually quite steep ( which is not apparent in the pictures) the surface is in perfect condition , surprisingly wide, - cars can easily pass each other. All the grounds, hedges, grass etc is superbly well maintained.

What we do know is that the drive and all the surrounding land is owned by The Box Moor Trust which was set up in 1594.

Just from observation there is no reason why hillclimbs could not be held there in the future.

When you think of the popularity of the Goodwood Festival of Speed hill climb in front of Goodwood House which has literally hundreds of thousands of visitors during the weekend and the days building up to it and areas of tented village of marquees.

Westbrook Hay is one mile from Hemel Hempstead, just 20 miles from the centre of London in a beautiful rural location a most attractive old country house surrounded by open fields with stunning views from its position on the top of the hill.

A historic event along the lines of the Goodwood event held annually could be fantastically popular in this location north west of London.

Perhaps The Box Moor trust are not aware of just what a potential money spinner they are sitting on.



http://www.westbrookhay.co.uk/



http://www.boxmoortrust.org.uk

Edited by RTH, 06 June 2009 - 11:51.

[fuzzi]

I too visited a few weeks ago, and walked the course. I had a chat with the groundsman who has been there since 1958 and had heard about the hillclimb and remarked that the drive was in a very poor state in those days. I'd like to think that events could be held there again although the hedges are much bigger and denser than they were in the hills heyday and some of the trees near the road look mighty solid. The road is free of speed humps and I imagine that they have been lucky to avoid accidents at busy times, because the road is just about wide enough to squeeze two cars past one another, but two Range Rovers might struggle.

I believe that it was security concerns that ended the annual event at Valence School in Kent.

The groundsman said "Racing cars you say, they wouldn't do much good if they met the Mums charging up and down here on the school run! I generally take a break about then"

[RTH]

Good points Julian, much the same also applies to the Goodwood FOS which has stone walls lining the course and trees, hedges etc.

I am only suggesting one weekend a year when the school is away on holiday and as only a historic/demonstration event with a tented village and big areas of static displays. It is in a very good catchment area where nothing similar takes place.

The FOS attracts a large number of visitors with a high ticket price . In many ways this is a similar set up with a motor sport history dating back more than 50 years. The proceeds would make not only a contribution to maintenance, repair , improvement to the drive and grounds but produce a surplus for the owners of the buildings etc.
Might not have been viable 40 odd years ago but today this type of event is proving very popular. The success last year of Cholmondeley Pageant of Power gives a guide, only this is in the home counties just north of London, where it would attract large numbers of visitors. The massive sea of humanity that turned out on just a midweek evening for the 'Classics on the Common 'at Harpenden last year shows the interest in classic and historic competition cars in the area.

Edited by RTH, 06 June 2009 - 16:15.

[fuzzi]

Don't get me wrong Richard I'm all for special one off events, and if I can afford a ticket then I'll certainly be there.

The site certainly has potential and it is a reasonable distance away from other houses so noise nuisance shouldn't be too big a problem - the meadow on the left of the hill on the inside of the long left hander would provide the best prospect of spectator viewing without removing large amounts of hedging.

If you are willing to take it on then, the best of luck. If I can help you with any background information please let me know.

[RTH]

Well I had not mentioned it with that in mind.
I suppose first one would need to see if the Trust was interested in principle. Then interest a motor club in administering an event and finding out the pitfalls in terms of public liability/planning etc. But these events do get put on around the country so it must be possible.

I think the secret is to keep it all very simple and recapture the basic lack of sophistication of the 1950s

After all if you visit Shelsley or Prescott today they are not much different from 50 years ago ?

[Lador]

I am interested in how the area around Westbrook Hay was managed during one of these events, especially how the spectators were managed. Did anyone here actaully attend one of the events there.

I am interested in where they queued to attend, where they stood to watch and what other areas may have beenb used (Picnic areas, parking etc).

There is a lime tree avenue in the centre of the area that used to mark the track to the old house before the road was built, was this used during the events?

I am conducting an historic study of the area and am trying to determine where groups of people would have been in the landscape.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Lador, 15 July 2009 - 08:48.

[RTH]

We have some film of the 1959 event we will be showing at the next TNF Herts Film Show on August 8th.

[LittleChris]

Drove up there today as my daughter has just joined the Boxmoor Trust Young Discoverers group * which is based in an old barn adjacent to the prep school. Road in very good condition (not surprisingly given that all those parents whose kids attend the school wouldn't want to risk damaging their top of the range 4 x 4's on a couple of potholes ! ) but with a lot of signs advising a 15 mph speed limit all the way up the hill.

* we went den building and ours fell down after her clumsy mate bumped into the key weight bearing log / twig upon which everything relied. I feel I may lack the ability to become a civil engineer

[Derwent Motorsport]

Looking at the photos I would doubt if it could ever get an MSA track licence. Safety demands are very different now and no run offs and trees at the road side would cause John Symes the MSA track inspector to say no very quickly.
I know of a number of efforts to revive old tracks and most never happen due to the cost of providing the correct level of safety for the 21st century.
The only one I know of that has happened is Bo'ness and that involves a hufe amount of straw bales and the support of the local council. Realistically it would not be much good for modern cars.

[Allan Lupton]

Most of the trees that line the drive now didn't exist 50 years ago so although it wouldn't get a licence now in its present state, as it was it would not present much of a problem.
There was one large oak well to the right of the main curve which offered the marshals some protection if something went off in that direction. I'd post a photo but it's all too difficult and the photo's rubbish really!
See also my post (No 3) of three years ago

Edited by Allan Lupton, 18 March 2012 - 09:44.

[Stephen W]

Looking at the photos I would doubt if it could ever get an MSA track licence. Safety demands are very different now and no run offs and trees at the road side would cause John Symes the MSA track inspector to say no very quickly.
I know of a number of efforts to revive old tracks and most never happen due to the cost of providing the correct level of safety for the 21st century.
The only one I know of that has happened is Bo'ness and that involves a hufe amount of straw bales and the support of the local council. Realistically it would not be much good for modern cars.

Spot on. Getting Bo'ness set-up is a major operation that takes nearly a full day to get all the bales in place.

A few years back several clubs looked into getting Baitings Dam Hillclimb up & running again. After a visit from Mr Symes they costed up the ground works alone, they would have cost more than the complete resurfacing that was also needed. Needless to say the money wasn't available. However if the track license hadn't been allowed to lapse then the Baitings Dam track would probably still be in operation; the reason being that when a license has lapsed any new aplication is treated as if the previous usage never happened.

[Tony Matthews]

There was one large oak well to the right of the main curve which offered the marshals some protection if something went off in that direction.

I remember that tree!

[RTH]

Most of the trees that line the drive now didn't exist 50 years ago so although it wouldn't get a licence now in its present state, as it was it would not present much of a problem.
There was one large oak well to the right of the main curve which offered the marshals some protection if something went off in that direction. I'd post a photo but it's all too difficult and the photo's rubbish really!
See also my post (No 3) of three years ago

If you want to email it to me I will post it up on your behalf Allan, we love old photos here.

[RTH]

Allan Lupton's photo from 1958 or 1959 of Donald Overy's Lagonda LG45 Rapide at Westbrook Hay hillclimb

Edited by RTH, 19 March 2012 - 07:29.

[Allan Lupton]

Thanks for putting this photo up Richard. It's Donald, not David, Overy in the Lagonda which he happily called "The Scarlet Woman".
Sorry about the photo quality but I was in a hurry and didn't get many of the settings right - however that is the oak tree of happy memory and you can more or less see that the only hedge near the track was a pretty small job then.

[LittleChris]

however that is the oak tree of happy memory and you can more or less see that the only hedge near the track was a pretty small job then.

That small hedge has grown up