52 replies to this topic

[f1seb]

Before retiring Ralf spoke to McLaren about a vacated seat after FA left the team. He was declined and McLaren went with Kovalainen. My question is. Was that a mistake on McLaren's part. Would Ralf be a lot better and would he have scored more points for McLaren?

What do you think?

[RedBaron]

Who is Ralf?

I think it would have been very interesting to see him in McLaren in 07... although we have seen him in a strong team before, but still very interesting.

[Scudetto]

Would have been worth it if for no other reason than keeping Cora around the paddock.

[engel]

Considering what he was paid at Toyota for 07 and his performances I think McLaren would have been right to hire about 10 Kova's and keep the change for spare parts

Seriously though no, I feel Ralph never really delivered and by 07 he was a spent force.

PPS he also tried (and failed to get) a TR and seat and amazingly a Force India seat ... that FI test is probably the most embarrassing thing for Schumachers ever

[Mauseri]

rofl

[PNSD]

He was at his best in the late ninties early 00's.

I was quite a fan of the guy though and do fully believe in the Mclaren seat alongside Lewis in 08 he could have performed very well, and imo better than Heikki. He pulled out some sensational races on occasion, and if Mclaren gave him a good enviroment he would have done the same imo.

However, at the time Heikki was a better long term option, however that remains to be seen if that still is the case. Is a spare Mclaren seat up for grabs in '10? I certainly bet there are a few drivers talking to Mclaren right now ;-)!

[noikeee]

I'm not sure. Kova's been disappointing, but Ralf looked quite unmotivated at the time too - and has been looking even worse in DTM.

It's a valid point to make and remember, but I doubt Mac would be getting more points if Ralf was in the seat.

[noikeee]

Originally posted by PNSD
However, at the time Heikki was a better long term option, however that remains to be seen if that still is the case. Is a spare Mclaren seat up for grabs in '10? I certainly bet there are a few drivers talking to Mclaren right now ;-)!

Definitely. My bet's on Rosberg. Second bet on Kubica.

[stevvy1986]

Nah, he got paid alot of money to do little more than drive round relatively slowly and look miserable. Would have been a waste of money.

[kar]

Originally posted by Scudetto
Would have been worth it if for no other reason than keeping Cora around the paddock.

Urgh where's the vomit emoticon.

Tell you who I miss, Connie Montoya...

[jesee]

On reflection i think Kova was overhyped. I must say i was very excited when he came to Maca and i thought he would be another Hakinnen or Kimi.He has been extremely dissapointing. There is no way Ralf would have been worse.I bet he won't have a drive in 2010 if he continues the way he is. I would welcome Nico with both hands or at least give a rookie like Senna a chance.

[stevvy1986]

I doubt Ralf would've been anything special in the McLaren at all. And they won't give Senna a chance, the only reasons they gave Lewis a chance is because they considered him to be 'the real deal' and because he'd been at the team for donkeys years.

[HP]

Something that I think explains a little bit from Ralf Schumacher's side about his final F1 tests with Force India.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/65247

Also, he tested with McLaren at the start of his F1 career. That's because he is friends with Norbert Haug.

Last year in DTM, he had the old car, and that was a deliberate move, so he didn't shine. But he wasn't expected to. This year he's stepped up to the new Mercedes.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/73218

[as65p]

Originally posted by kar


Urgh where's the vomit emoticon.

Tell you who I miss, Connie Montoya...

[Les]

Ralf was **** so there's no way on earth he would have done well for McLaren. Simples.

[f1rules]

well i say lets try him, it cant get any worse than slowalinen as someone has named him, sorry cant remember who. He is so bad and his irritating excuses. Its actually sad because he seems like a nice person. But top nothch F1 driver HE IS NOT

[f1rules]

If ever bbc and top gear are gonna need a new Captain slow im gonna recommend slowalinen

[Tenmantaylor]

http://forums.autosp...&highlight=ralf

If he drove like he did for Toyota for last season or so he would have done worse than Heikki. If he drove at his best I think he couldve done alot better. I dont think he ever drove aswell after his (2nd?) big crash at Indy where he hit the wall backwards.

[Scotracer]

I want Montoya back - he was a character... :

They always say fat guys have a real personality ;)

[Ultra150]

Originally posted by HP
Something that I think explains a little bit from Ralf Schumacher's side about his final F1 tests with Force India.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/65247

Also, he tested with McLaren at the start of his F1 career. That's because he is friends with Norbert Haug.

Last year in DTM, he had the old car, and that was a deliberate move, so he didn't shine. But he wasn't expected to. This year he's stepped up to the new Mercedes.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/73218

I always find your posts presented as fairly as possible. Good on ya!

[gerry nassar]

Originally posted by paranoik0


Definitely. My bet's on Rosberg. Second bet on Kubica.

I'd say Kubica will pretty much leave BMW if the Spain update isnt any good. Mclaren would be mad not to take him. Rosberg is an option but he wouldnt fair much better than Kova against Lewis. I like Rosberg but I do feel he isnt extracting as much as he could from that Williams on Sat/Sunday.

[Saint Devote]

Ralf Schumacher performed well with inferior equipment during the twilight years of his career. Sure he had his off days and it was fashionable to "rubbish him". But he did get the occasional pole position and podium finish right up to 2006.

Perhaps in a team such as Mclaren, just as Alonso discovered it to not fit, Ralf would have slotted in nicely and coped extremely well. In a good car he did win grands prix.

Maybe personality wise he was much like Jacques Villeneuve that when it came to the race he would lift his game to the occasion.

I dont think he was a world title material - too mecurial in a racing car - but he definitely was a top three driver.

As for Heiki, I think it is too early to write him off. Most drivers take a while to develop and most drivers would find it difficult with a temmate such as Lewis.

The Mclaren team is a different animal this year, the nonsense aside, it will not be the Ron Dennis racing team anymore, and it could assist in helping Heikki.

I think Mclaren will keep him in 2010 - why would they sign Rosberg? On current evidence Rosberg messes up. And Kubica and Hamilton in the same team? Not bloody likely mate!!!

If anything Kubica is headed to replace one of the Ferrari drivers in 2010 - now THAT is a perfect fit indeed.

[raiseyourfistfor]

I think the McLarens have been a bit like the Ducati's in MotoGP. Only a very few drivers can drive it fast.

[Kooper]

Originally posted by gerry nassar


I'd say Kubica will pretty much leave BMW if the Spain update isnt any good. Mclaren would be mad not to take him. Rosberg is an option but he wouldnt fair much better than Kova against Lewis. I like Rosberg but I do feel he isnt extracting as much as he could from that Williams on Sat/Sunday.

I agree Gerry. Nico would not be my first or 2nd choice to replace Heikki. Kubica & Vettel would be my first candidates and I'd rather have Vettel but don't believe he will be available. Kubica would do nicely tho.

Nico, I'm kinda getting the impression he may just end up a journeyman driver. He may eventually win a few races but I don't see great things in his future.

[Saint Devote]

Originally posted by raiseyourfistfor
I think the McLarens have been a bit like the Ducati's in MotoGP. Only a very few drivers can drive it fast.

Thats common to the great cars. The Lotus 72, one of my ever favorite cars, and just so beautiful, was one of the great cars in the right hands. It won grands prix from 1970 through to 1974 but really was a difficult car.

Currently, look at the Brawn BGP001, Jenson Button has claimed pole, won 3 grands prix and a 3rd place, compared to Rubens who is no slouch and on the day beat Schumi.

My point is that as good as Rubens is, Jenson really is that good and, in the Mclarens of 2007 and 2008 would have won races and been a champion.

[slideways]

Ralf would be doing better than Kovalainen. It was a conscious decision from McLaren to put an empty driver in the second car though, just like Piquet at Renault.

[fanboy]

ralf was always strong in good cars. He struggled when the car was poor and over drove. I think in a good mclaren he would have been more solid than Heikki, but its possible he would have lost his head when faced with someone as good as hamilton. Regardless, with his experience he should have been the wiser choice than a raw heikki, but Mclaren obviously wanted someone to be Hamiltons number 2 and ralf would been more of a problem on and off the track.

[klyster]

phhhtttt, a meek shadow of his older brother.

Best leave Ralph to himself..

[Galko877]

I never understood why it's such a fashion to bash Ralf (by fans and the media alike). No, he was not Michael and never will be but he was not worse than your average driver, than a Webber, a Trulli or perhaps even a Button who is now, given the right car, running for the title. And I think he is definitely better than below average drivers like Kovalainen or Piquet.

[bogi]

http://www.sniffpetr...alf-and-mickey/

[Galko877]

Originally posted by Saint Devote

Currently, look at the Brawn BGP001, Jenson Button has claimed pole, won 3 grands prix and a 3rd place, compared to Rubens who is no slouch and on the day beat Schumi.

My point is that as good as Rubens is, Jenson really is that good and, in the Mclarens of 2007 and 2008 would have won races and been a champion.

I think Jenson is good as he is proving it these days, but he is like Kimi or Häkkinen. He needs a great car that suits him perfectly to do great things, but when the car is a bit more difficult he can struggle a lot - let's not forget Rubens beat him over the season last year. Like DC beat Häkkinen in 1997 and 2001, but when the McLaren was great and suited Mika DC came nowhere near to him.

[pUs]

I somehow doubt Ralf's motivation during his last couple of seasons.

Having said that though, in my mind I have no doubts at all he would have been faster than Kovalainen. Still would be. On occasions he would have beaten Hamilton as well, never consistently though.

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by HP

Last year in DTM, he had the old car, and that was a deliberate move, so he didn't shine. But he wasn't expected to. This year he's stepped up to the new Mercedes.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/73218

The old car won a race and was competitive on a regular basis with Paffett at the wheel. Ralf was very very slow all the time.

[MWM]

Didn't Patrick Head say some to the effect of "On his day Ralf Schumacher could be the quickest driver in F1 - the problem is it's not 'his day' very often".

[karlth]

Originally posted by bogi

[Dragonfly]

Ralf is not an option.
Problem is I don't believe any good and ambitious young driver will agree to go to McLaren as long as Hamilton is there.

[sopa]

To me it's no contest. Ralf would be way better without a doubt. On his day Ralf was unbeatable. Has Heikki ever looked even close to that? Besides that Ralf is great in the wet. He was performing poorly in 2007 due to lack of motivation in a bad car, but that wouldn't have been the case in 2008-2009 any more. See, people bashed Button for being unmotivated in 2008, but look at him now. Ralf would have made a similar comeback.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by jesee
On reflection i think Kova was overhyped. I must say i was very excited when he came to Maca and i thought he would be another Hakinnen or Kimi.He has been extremely dissapointing. There is no way Ralf would have been worse.I bet he won't have a drive in 2010 if he continues the way he is. I would welcome Nico with both hands or at least give a rookie like Senna a chance.

Kova overhyped?

After his year at Renault I can't remember anyone really hyping him, and don't forget he wasn't Mac's 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
Ralf is not an option.
Problem is I don't believe any good and ambitious young driver will agree to go to McLaren as long as Hamilton is there.

I'll bet your wrong. Any good and ambitious driver would bite your arm off to get a top seat, regardless of who the other driver is.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by pUs
I somehow doubt Ralf's motivation during his last couple of seasons.

Having said that though, in my mind I have no doubts at all he would have been faster than Kovalainen. Still would be. On occasions he would have beaten Hamilton as well, never consistently though.

I don't think RS was ever the same after his Indy shunt.

[Vegetableman]

My mind does cast back to 2003. Before he was taken off by Rubens at Hockenheim Ralf was on a massive roll and headed for the championship lead. For me that year he had the measure of JPM and were it not for some misfortune could have been in the hunt come Japan. That was Ralf at his best.
I find his Toyota years hard to compare given the state of the car.
Just had a quick look at the Toyota years and he beat Trulli in 2 years out of 3. So to be honest I'd say he would have been a better pick for the seat than Kovi who for me has been a major disappointment.

[ashnathan]

Vettel will be in mclaren before kubica or rosberg.

[peroa]

Originally posted by Clatter


I don't think RS was ever the same after his Indy shunt.

Yep, after 2004 it was somehow game over and the 2005 deja-vu didn`t help much.

[peroa]

Originally posted by kids like ash
Vettel will be in mclaren before kubica or rosberg.

Doubt it. Mateschitz won`t let his superstar go ...

[potmotr]

Originally posted by gerry nassar


I'd say Kubica will pretty much leave BMW if the Spain update isnt any good. Mclaren would be mad not to take him.

Do you think McLaren are chasing another topliner?

It seems to be Team Lewis these days, which is working well for them.

[sopa]

Originally posted by Clatter


I don't think RS was ever the same after his Indy shunt.

Is there anything to suggest that his performances deteriorated after 2004 Indy except that the cars he was driving afterwards, were inferior? You know, driver ratings are based on cars.;) When Ralf was close to Montoya, people say he was performing better than when he was matching Trulli? Why is matching Trulli worse?

[Mika Mika]

Originally posted by sopa


Is there anything to suggest that his performances deteriorated after 2004 Indy except that the cars he was driving afterwards, were inferior? You know, driver ratings are based on cars.;) When Ralf was close to Montoya, people say he was performing better than when he was matching Trulli? Why is matching Trulli worse?

[cheapracer]

Originally posted by Les
Ralf was **** so there's no way on earth he would have done well for McLaren. Simples.

oh really?

180 races, 27 podiums, 9 wins and 6 poles and at that it's actually better because the Indy crash and time at Toyota raises the race count without results considerably.

Wow, your right, he really was ****.

Now for the others with some intelligence, I actualy respect Ralph, he stood out of his brothers shadow and had some impressive drives but when he had a bad day it really was and usually with no excuse for it.

I'm sure his big Indy crash did take his edge off though and like Jenson, going to a big money team (Toyota) without a decent car has to take your edge off (read, makes you just do what you have to - lazy).

I kind of think he would have been a great 2nd man to Hamilton but of course no one knew at that time that Hamilton would be a number 1 type so that went against him I figure.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by sopa


Is there anything to suggest that his performances deteriorated after 2004 Indy except that the cars he was driving afterwards, were inferior? You know, driver ratings are based on cars.;) When Ralf was close to Montoya, people say he was performing better than when he was matching Trulli? Why is matching Trulli worse?

Can't put numbers on it, just a gut feeling really.

[potmotr]

Originally posted by Clatter


Can't put numbers on it, just a gut feeling really.

I've never bought into all the talk that Ralf's crash made him a different driver.

The key factor about Ralf's 2004 Indy crash is that it was so public.

Many other drivers have had massive crashes in testing (Coulthard, Wurz, Raikkonen, Schumacher...) and bounced back just as strong.

The comments about Ralf being 'not the same' came from Patrick Head, his Williams team boss who was no doubt a little jilted that one of his drivers had signed for Williams...