42 replies to this topic

[Matt Wiley]

With Fiat saving Chrysler does anyone think that this would give USf1 the perfect chance to run with a top flight engine(Ferrari) but rebadaged as Chrysler or maybe Dodge HEMI power(even though it is not a Hemi)? This way they could have an all American lineup: Chassis, "Engine", Driver.

[Mauseri]

I'm not sure who would benefit from this badging. I dont remember engines being renamed from one car manufacturer to another. I dont think Ferrari would be very happy about something like this. It would be another reason to leave the sport, together with Max' plans.

[dgduris]

1. That's insane!

2. I don't think that Fiat retains enough actual ownership of Ferrari to make that happen.

3. C'mon Jean Todt - replace Max ("Spanky" - Brilliant!) already so we can get back to the FIA/Ferrari global love-fest/merchandising axis. ;-}

Edited by dgduris, 02 May 2009 - 15:42.

[mkay]

I'm not sure who would benefit from this badging. I dont remember engines being renamed from one car manufacturer to another. I dont think Ferrari would be very happy about something like this. It would be another reason to leave the sport, together with Max' plans.

I think you've forgotten the part saying that Ferrari is OWNED by FIAT. Montezemolo is in fact FIAT'S CHAIRMAN.

[Mauseri]

I think you've forgotten the part saying that Ferrari is OWNED by FIAT. Montezemolo is in fact FIAT'S CHAIRMAN.

Ferrari is Fiat's crown jevel and Montezemolo isnt going to destroy that just for Chrysler. If the scenario happens that Ferrari indeed leaves F1, maybe the situation could be different then. Even in that case I very much doubt Chrysler entering F1 considering the state of the company and the fact that F1 is nothing in US.

[mkay]

Ferrari is Fiat's crown jevel and Montezemolo isnt going to destroy that just for Chrysler. If the scenario happens that Ferrari indeed leaves F1, maybe the situation could be different then. Even in that case I very much doubt Chrysler entering F1 considering the state of the company and the fact that F1 is nothing in US.

If you want some kind of visibility in the US, a Chrysler engine would sound better than Ferrari. Period. That's the way it is.

Thus, for USGPE and Ferrari/Fiat, it would be a great move.

[Mauseri]

If you want some kind of visibility in the US, a Chrysler engine would sound better than Ferrari. Period. That's the way it is.

Thus, for USGPE and Ferrari/Fiat, it would be a great move.

Sure, for USGP it would be good. They would love to have corporations paying their budget. But I dont think the Fiat corporation is very interested to invest in another F1 team while they already have Ferrari. Maybe there could be small Chrysler sponorship in the car if Fiat group owned the team but as there are no connections I dont see it happening.

What do you think will the american people start buying small Fiat cars rebadged as Chrysler? This seems more likely rebadging scenario to happen at this time

[VicR]

Forget about Ferrari supplying anyone else with engines with the current situation that's going on.

[COUGAR508]

I thought that the smart money was on the new US F1 team using Cosworth engines?

[werks prototype]

I would have thought FIAT would want to get the hell out of that particular relationship while they still can. Government subsidies aside (Italian and American). GM next.

[GhostR]

I'm not sure who would benefit from this badging. I dont remember engines being renamed from one car manufacturer to another.

Rebadging is actually very common in the auto industry. Not just engines, either. The Toyota Lexcen sold in Australia was a rebadged Holden Commodore.

[Mauseri]

Rebadging is actually very common in the auto industry. Not just engines, either. The Toyota Lexcen sold in Australia was a rebadged Holden Commodore.

In F1 I mean.

Holden, heh, did they ever design a car of their own?

[Chubby_Deuce]

Peter Windsor said they've put a deposit on Cosworths.

[dgduris]

@mckay,

Why would Ferrari need greater visibility...anywhere?

Why, if they did want to be more "seen" would they dilute the brand with the crap that is Chrysler? That one disproves the theory that any PR is good PR. It is not as if Chrysler buyers would suddenly go buy a Ferrari or Ferrari drivers would suddenly go by a Chrysler product that didn't say "Jeep" on the sides. Hey! Maybe "Jeep F1" in rosso corsa! Have a clue!

See, we've been down this road before...in "rich, Corinthian leather." It didn't turn out so well...http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri33.htm

[Zarathustra]

This won't happen, but Ferrari have rebadged their engines before - as Petronas for Sauber.

[Bloggsworth]

As long as they don't get the Chrysler stylist to design the bodywork, we'd end up with a retro look Lancia D50.

[potmotr]

Am I the only one who finds the USF1 proposal the least credible out of any new team suggested for 2010?

It only has gained a little oxygen of publicity thanks to Peter Windsor's connections at Speed TV.

So far as I can see there's absolutely not a cent of cash behind the plan, nor any firm movement to design a car, nor firm facilities etc etc.

[COUGAR508]

Am I the only one who finds the USF1 proposal the least credible out of any new team suggested for 2010?

It only has gained a little oxygen of publicity thanks to Peter Windsor's connections at Speed TV.

So far as I can see there's absolutely not a cent of cash behind the plan, nor any firm movement to design a car, nor firm facilities etc etc.

They have certainly got their PR and media coverage well sorted, and I hope that they succeed. However, I remain to be fully convinced.

[Madras]

This won't happen, but Ferrari have rebadged their engines before - as Petronas for Sauber.

That was a sponsorship deal. Ferrari probably got paid quite a bit for that. And they werent the up to date engines that Ferrari used in their own cars.

[ensign14]

I'm not sure who would benefit from this badging. I dont remember engines being renamed from one car manufacturer to another.

Remember the Alfa Romeo Indianapolis engine from the late 80s/early 90s? That was basically a developed Ferrari engine. Plus in Group C racing in the early 80s the Lancia engine was a turbocharged Ferrari.

[COUGAR508]

From a commercial point of view, I would assume that the main purpose of any Chrysler badging of "Ferrari" engines would be to promote the Chrysler brand outside North America?

[Welsh]

Interesting idea - but USF1 now have Cosworth engines.

However what with the success of Mercedes with BrawnGP - it seems in the current climate to stick with the one well known brand - Chrysler in the UK is a bit of a joke (sort of Rover) - and the 3rd largest in the US - maybe using the Pontiac name or some other Chrysler linked name would be better?

Also has a customer Ferrari powered team ever won a race?

[potmotr]

They have certainly got their PR and media coverage well sorted, and I hope that they succeed. However, I remain to be fully convinced.

I think time is running out. It is May already. If they're going to be on the track next year you'd think they'd need to have their car at least designed by now. I think it is all toe-in-water hot air actually. Whenever anyone suggests a key element of their operation being a reality tv show I begin to have big doubts...

[potmotr]

Also has a customer Ferrari powered team ever won a race?

Toro Rosso, courtesy of Sebastien Vettel, Monza 2008.

[ensign14]

Also has a customer Ferrari powered team ever won a race?

Yes - FISA, 1961 French GP. Helped by the Ferrari engine being in a Ferrari chassis.

[LuckyStrike1]

In F1 I mean.

Holden, heh, did they ever design a car of their own?

Sauber-Petronas ...

[Blythy]

Sauber ran with "Petronas" engines for a good few years, which were ferrari engines. So it's possible.

[ensign14]

Petronas though is not a manufacturer, which is presumably the point. Ferrari engines were badged as Castellottis when shoved in the back of Coopers, there might be other Ferrari disguises as well.

[V8 Fireworks]

Holden, heh, did they ever design a car of their own?

Yeah, they designed the VE.

It doesn't have much to do with other GM cars (Camaro?), they designed the platform here that went over to go under US 2-door models based on spin in the local papers..

It's arguable as to how much opel is located in VB-VZ Commdores really, obviously the doors and roofline is the same but how it much it goes beyond that is vague???

But proudly with world-exclusive bespoke Inline 6, locally apdated/developed and locally built 5.4 V8, and consistently no connection to euro cars the mighty Falcon is the most australian motor vehicle.

(Even if the stupid Ford US beancounters are always trying to shut the car down, and won't build let 'em built it in LHD and export worldwide... The mix of Euro styling and muscle car dynamics makes aussie cars relatively unsellable in the U.S., even though bland and/or Euro styling like Camry and other bland front drivers are big sellers there by themselves. It seems that Americans only like their RWD cars with over-the-top styling and bodykits, and those that are opting for a big rear driver don't want a plain Euro style car?)

... No expert but as far as I know their (holden) cars, mid-size to small-car range from 50s-70s aren't based on other international cars either, is that right???

[Dolph]

1. That's insane!

2. I don't think that Fiat retains enough actual ownership of Ferrari to make that happen.

3. C'mon Jean Todt - replace Max ("Spanky" - Brilliant!) already so we can get back to the FIA/Ferrari global love-fest/merchandising axis. ;-}

Since when do you need 100% ownership of smth to make deal. If there is enough mutual interests involved then what would stop them.

[Dolph]

Am I the only one who finds the USF1 proposal the least credible out of any new team suggested for 2010?

It only has gained a little oxygen of publicity thanks to Peter Windsor's connections at Speed TV.

So far as I can see there's absolutely not a cent of cash behind the plan, nor any firm movement to design a car, nor firm facilities etc etc.

For me its the concept that is just unbelievable.

[Meanstreak]

Plus in Group C racing in the early 80s the Lancia engine was a turbocharged Ferrari.

But it was still literally a Ferrari engine (not rebadged)?

Edited by Meanstreak, 03 May 2009 - 17:23.

[ensign14]

But it was still literally a Ferrari engine (not rebadged)?

You got me thinking, cos I don't ever remember them being referred to as Ferrari at the time. Automobile Sport, Autocourse and the Le Mans yearbooks only refer to them as Lancias or Lancia-Martinis in the results, although Automobile Sport's marque directory mentions the engine is a Ferrari. But at the time the World Sportscar Championship referred to cars as engine first, rather than chassis (e.g. Ford-Rondeau), although I don't recall any publications following suit, and I cannot think there was ever reference to a Ferrari-Lancia.

[Zippel]

That was a sponsorship deal.

Not just sponsorship. Through Petronas, the engine was also upgraded throughout the season though not often. The original plan was for Petronas to eventually create their own V10 but that was scrapped in favour of continuing with last year's Ferrari engine.

Edited by Zippel, 03 May 2009 - 23:50.

[Sakae]

As distant side-note, FIAT is also in talks with Opel.

[COUGAR508]

As distant side-note, FIAT is also in talks with Opel.

There is talk of them taking over GM Europe. I wonder what re-badging opportunities this deal may bring?

[Kop Alonso]

Also was'nt the Ferrari engine in the Prost rebadged as Acer for a short period...

Edited by Kop Alonso, 04 May 2009 - 20:17.

[Blythy]

If vauxhall/opel were to join f1 as a rebadged ferrari engine, who would win/get damaged more?

F1 getting damaged
ferrari getting damaged
vauxhall/opel winning.

[Mauseri]

Sauber-Petronas ...

Where can you buy Petronas cars? I'm interested.

[lillixene]

If USF1 is supposed to represent the best of American technology then the Engine should be supplied by Ford, GM or Chrysler.... if those companies are still around in a weeks time

[Owen]

Not sure that a programme of F1 racing is on the agenda for ANY car manufacturer right now.

[Dolph]

If USF1 is supposed to represent the best of American technology then the Engine should be supplied by Ford, GM or Chrysler.... if those companies are still around in a weeks time

It's good that you find comfort in the suffering of others

[Dragonfly]

There is a saying that goes like "Don't put the pan on the stove while the fish is still in the sea."
Let us see what kind of fish will come out of this first.