16 replies to this topic

[Keke Rosberg]

I was reading a 1985 Autocourse and it lists various materials for their brake disc used by the Williams team. They had tried Carbon disc / Steel disc / Metal disc / Cast Iron disc etc.

Do you know what's the difference between all these material and how do they differ in performance?

btw - what's the purpose of an air duct to the brake system?

thank you

[Chubby_Deuce]

From what I've read the performance difference is largely in unsprung mass savings, not braking power. Zanardi famously went back to steel when he struggled with the feel of carbon brakes with little loss in performance.

The air ducts are for cooling. Their sizes differ based on the demands of each track.

[cheapracer]

From what I've read the performance difference is largely in unsprung mass savings, not braking power. Zanardi famously went back to steel when he struggled with the feel of carbon brakes with little loss in performance.

Unsprung weight is an overated item to me on billiard board smooth racetracks and tall wall tyres.

The advantage is in the rotational mass - simple terms; easier to accelerate and easier to stop rotating as well as easier directional changes having less weight in the extreme 4 corners of the car.

[gruntguru]

The air ducts are for cooling. Their sizes differ based on the demands of each track.

As discussed recently in the KERS thread the brakes can generate up to 2000 hp of heat.

[Tony Matthews]

The advantage is in the rotational mass - simple terms; easier to accelerate and easier to stop rotating as well as easier directional changes having less weight in the extreme 4 corners of the car.

And did they not allow , or mandate, carbon discs on Super Seedways as iron or steel discs could disintegrate with the high rotational loads?

[Lee Nicolle]

And did they not allow , or mandate, carbon discs on Super Seedways as iron or steel discs could disintegrate with the high rotational loads?

Is that on Indy cars [for lack of a better name] or on stockcars. As far as I know the stockcars all use iron rotors though these days seem to be using Brembo etc rotors and callipers more than the generic US stuff.

[Tony Matthews]

Is that on Indy cars [for lack of a better name] or on stockcars. As far as I know the stockcars all use iron rotors though these days seem to be using Brembo etc rotors and callipers more than the generic US stuff.

Sorry, I should have been more specific! I only found out about the change to carbon discs on ChampCars after I had illustrated a couple in Super Speedway trim with iron/steel rotors, only to be told - 'Oh, by the way...', so I then added 'change rotors' to my list of differences between Super Speedway and Road/Short Oval set-ups.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 05 May 2009 - 08:54.

[gruntguru]

Sorry, I should have been more specific! I only found out about the change to carbon discs on ChampCars after I had illustrated a couple in Super Speedway trim with iron/steel rotors, only to be told - 'Oh, by the way...', so I then added 'change rotors' to my list of differences between Super Speedway and Road/Short Oval set-ups.

Awesome Tony - thanks. BTW - how many differences do we have to find?

[Tony Matthews]

Awesome Tony - thanks. BTW - how many differences do we have to find?

Not many here, gg, only three 'areas'. I would have shown just the brakes, but that would have required two re-scans, and I'm suposed to be decorating...Oops, hello darling, didn't hear you come in...

[cheapracer]

Not many here, gg, only three 'areas'. I would have shown just the brakes, but that would have required two re-scans, and I'm suposed to be decorating...Oops, hello darling, didn't hear you come in...

...and another thing, your lazy (PH11, you still haven't told us who said that, I still vote for Cary Grant or was it you McGuire?)

Even I could have gotten a Nikko pen and coloured those discs black! I want my money back!

[Tony Matthews]

Even I could have gotten a Nikko pen and coloured those discs black! I want my money back!

If I ever illustrate again I'll know who to turn to for help, then!

[cheapracer]

If I ever illustrate again I'll know who to turn to for help, then!

You've stopped? Well thats sad, why if I may be so rude?

How long does it take to roughly complete something like the Indycar above by the way?

Edited by cheapracer, 05 May 2009 - 16:20.

[cheapracer]

Awesome Tony - thanks. BTW - how many differences do we have to find?

I didn't notice any at first! (the brakes duh)

rear wing, front and rear brake scoops.

[Tony Matthews]

I didn't notice any at first! (the brakes duh)

rear wing, front and rear brake scoops.

As I said, not many on this one, but also ........ dump valve.

[RoutariEnjinu]

I thought a property of carbon brakes is that they worked better the hotter they got, and one of the benefits is reduced brake fade?

Or is that just dumbed down Top Gear non-sense.

[Tony Matthews]

I thought a property of carbon brakes is that they worked better the hotter they got, and one of the benefits is reduced brake fade?

Or is that just dumbed down Top Gear non-sense.

There are several benefits to be gained by using carbon/carbon for brake discs, but CART banned them for races other than Super Speedways for cost reasons, as also things like pneumatic valve actuation and titanium rods, etc. Didn't stop it being a terrific series, though!

[J. Edlund]

I thought a property of carbon brakes is that they worked better the hotter they got, and one of the benefits is reduced brake fade?

Or is that just dumbed down Top Gear non-sense.

From what I've read, C/C offers a slightly higher friction coefficient than typically found on conventional brake materials, but since there isn't a major difference, the braking power from C/C brakes and conventional iron disk brakes should be similar. But at high temperature, the heat capacity (2.5x) and the strength (2x) of C/C material i much greater. In aircraft C/C brake applications temperatures can reach 3000 degC, and by then we would have had molten iron everywhere. So C/C brakes obviously works very well at high temperature and conventional fade shouldn't really be an issue. But the main advantage is probably the much lower weight of the brake system.