43 replies to this topic

[stephen green]

Hi folks, I hope I am not breaking any forum rules by posting this thread. If I have then I apologise in advance.

The British Motorsport Marshals Club, who represent some 1,800 British marshals, have launched a scheme to raise money for training and recruitment of new marshals. As many of you may know the number of marshals available to volunteer for meetings over the past few years had dropped to a dangerously low level, leaving some meetings perilously close to being cancelled by the stewards.

The BMMC in conjunction with other bodies (MSA, BARC, MSV & BRSCC) have been actively recruiting over the past three years and at last marshal numbers are on the increase. Being a volunteer organisation we rely greatly on the good will of others to help fund certain things.

To try and make it easier for us going forward, we have launched a 'supporting marshals' sticker 7 inches square, that is available to any driver or team member who wishes to display it on their race car or team transporter. The stickers cost £10 each and if anyone is interested would they please send me a cheque, made payable to BMMC and a SAE large enough to take the stickers (usually A4 is sufficient). For details of where to send your cheque, or for any other questions, please e-mail me at s.c.green@btinternet.com

Thanks in advance for your support, on behalf of all our members.

[rolf123]

Why are marshall's not paid?

Stewards at football matches are paid. I know it's not the same job but it's similar in some respects, local people hired for an event - get to watch the event without paying but really have a job to do.

It's about time marshalls were paid some nominal amount at least for their work.

[cheapracer]

I can't believe with the amount of money in racing and not just F1 why money isn't made available.

Seriously Mate, strike, see what they can do without you.

[stephen green]

Striking is NOT an option. We are a professional bunch of guys and gals who adore motorsport and volunteer to help make the sport safer for those participating.

As I said in my original post we have made strides in attracting new marshals to motorsport but still need to do more. Circuits do help by offering free trade stands etc but there are still other costs involved which if we have the necessary money will make the task even easier to achieve.

No-one would thank us if they turned up at a circuit to race only to discover the meeting had been cancelled due to a lack of marshals.

[Broadway]

I can't believe with the amount of money in racing and not just F1 why money isn't made available.

Seriously Mate, strike, see what they can do without you.

I can understand that some lower series does not pay the marshals, but is it true that they do not even get payed on the GP's? That is definitely not OK. There a strike is maybe necessary.

Problem, as I see it from a personal point of view, with fond raising is that those who race are usually rich or have rich parents. They have all the fun. The people marshaling is often people who is interested in racing but was not born with a silver spoon in the mouth. Then the rich people expect the not so rich to assist them for free and that other not so rich people should chip in to have them educated.

What did FIA make with the $100 million that Ron gave them?

[pRy]

My father used to marshal at Oulton Park and I agree with you, they're a very professional bunch of hard working people.

I hope you get the funding you deserve. Perhaps set up a website to encourage people to support the marshals? Use the internet.. maybe create some youtube videos to illustrate the training they do, what they do etc, the weather conditions they have to put up with, what the flags mean, that sort of thing.

Good luck.

[stephen green]

Thanks for your comments. Much of what you suggest is available on our website www.marshals.co.uk

[Ross Stonefeld]

Thanks for your comments. Much of what you suggest is available on our website www.marshals.co.uk

What the hell does my track rental fee go towards then when I show up to test?

[mclarensmps]

I can understand that some lower series does not pay the marshals, but is it true that they do not even get payed on the GP's?

I know someone who Marshals at the Bahrain GP and he, at least, does not get paid.

[Broadway]

What the hell does my track rental fee go towards then when I show up to test?

The crane driver?;)

[rolf123]

I think you (and all other F1 marshalls) should definitely threaten to strike. Perhaps there needs to be an worldwide associate of marshalls. Racing is big enough for it and all marshalls should be encouraged to join.

You would get your demands because even if the organisers threaten to bring in others for free, they will be inexperienced and the drivers would refuse to race under such marshalls.

[cheapracer]

You would get your demands because even if the organisers threaten to bring in others for free, they will be inexperienced and the drivers would refuse to race under such marshalls.

In Oz you have to have a qualification to be a marshal so that puts paid to bringing in others.

[cheapracer]

No-one would thank us if they turned up at a circuit to race only to discover the meeting had been cancelled due to a lack of marshals.

Oh, they thank you now do they?

Not often in my 20+ years on/off as Scrutineer and Flaggy.

Not putting your efforts down Matey but you need to take a harder line or you will always have this struggle.

While President of a motorsports club we used some excess club money to donate to other clubs in return for volunteer flaggies and we swapped time with different types of motorsports clubs such as Speedway, both ideas worked out well.

[pacificquay]

It's hardly appropriate to describe Stephen Green, the man responsible for one of the best pieces of Formula One marshalling in history, as "matey". How patronising.

He has explained how marshals have a love of motorsport and would never consider striking.

Be constructive rather than advocating mass disruption.

More power to Stephen's elbow - and well done and thank you to everyone who is a marshal.

[Broadway]

It's hardly appropriate to describe Stephen Green, the man responsible for one of the best pieces of Formula One marshalling in history, as "matey". How patronising.

He has explained how marshals have a love of motorsport and would never consider striking.

Be constructive rather than advocating mass disruption.

More power to Stephen's elbow - and well done and thank you to everyone who is a marshal.

Still, considering the money that is flowing for a GP weekend, it is a disgrace that they do not get payed.

I am surprised nobody picked up on my question what Max did with Ron's $100 millions

[rolf123]

It's hardly appropriate to describe Stephen Green, the man responsible for one of the best pieces of Formula One marshalling in history, as "matey". How patronising.

He has explained how marshals have a love of motorsport and would never consider striking.

Be constructive rather than advocating mass disruption.

More power to Stephen's elbow - and well done and thank you to everyone who is a marshal.

That may be so but anyone who refuses to take a stand when needed will have their kindness rewarded with abuse. This happens in all walks of life.

I can understand people objecting to the police and nurses not striking because serious consequences could result. But if marshalls strike then this could not happen.

[stephen green]

Guys, a couple of answers for you to begin with.

When you attend a test or track day there is a reduced marshalling force present, those marshals are usually employed by the circuit and have to be there to satisfy insurance and safety requirements. The majority of your testing fees go to cover the cost of the circuit hire.

I didn't start this thread to get into the whys and wherefores of marshals being paid or not, although the term volunteer does rather cover that. It was to advertise the fact that as a club we are taking a pro-actice approach towards fund raising and hence the somewhat unsubtle advertising of our Supporting Marshals stickers. So far this year we have raised around £1,000 by selling the stickers to drivers and team members and I would like to think there is scope to further that goal with your and others help.

I can understand the various arguements regarding pay and strike but let me assure you, it is highly unlikely it would ever come to that as it would actually do more harm than good. As things stand we have the support of the vast majority of drivers who quite honestly already pay enough to test and race, we also have the support of the majority of the larger organising clubs (in the UK) who help with free trade stands at major events. The stickers are being sold to aloow us to do a better job of recruitment and to be seen to be doing something ourselves without having to go cap in hand to others. The guys and gals who man our recruitment stands are also volunteers.

If you are able to help please drop me an email...

Thanks for your support, it is very much appreciated.

[Suzy]

First of all, good day to you Mr Stephen Green and I hope you are well.

I have a lot of respect for marshals. I find them friendly, helpful and always partial to a bag of jelly babies. I get to spend a lot of time with them trackside and see at first hand the hours they put in plus the , shortened lunch breaks, standing on post in all weathers, standing on post in torrential rain in the middle of the night (Snetterton 24 Hour 2CV race) or staying up all night in the cold to deal with drivers (Britcar 24 Hours), attending to drivers and cars when they've retired (the former are sometimes a lot harder to control than the latter) and are good-natured. In short, the sort of people you would be happy to spend time with.

As Stephen has said, they wouldn't dream of striking. That would not solve the problem; if anything it would make it worse. What Stephen wants to do is advertise the fact that the Marshals Club would like to be able to increase the number of marshals available at race meetings. Surely that's not a bad thing is it?

[Ross Stonefeld]

First of all, good day to you Mr Stephen Green and I hope you are well.

I have a lot of respect for marshals. I find them friendly, helpful and always partial to a bag of jelly babies. I get to spend a lot of time with them trackside and see at first hand the hours they put in plus the , shortened lunch breaks, standing on post in all weathers, standing on post in torrential rain in the middle of the night (Snetterton 24 Hour 2CV race) or staying up all night in the cold to deal with drivers (Britcar 24 Hours), attending to drivers and cars when they've retired (the former are sometimes a lot harder to control than the latter) and are good-natured. In short, the sort of people you would be happy to spend time with.

As Stephen has said, they wouldn't dream of striking. That would not solve the problem; if anything it would make it worse. What Stephen wants to do is advertise the fact that the Marshals Club would like to be able to increase the number of marshals available at race meetings. Surely that's not a bad thing is it?

No, but he's not doing a very good job of answering the question most people are asking, which is why they don't get paid since they provide a professional service. And I think most who are asking that are asking out of respect and admiration for the work they do.

[christoff]

Guess it,s a bit like the lifeboats in some ways, just the way it is I guess.

[stephen green]

I will try to answer the question regarding pay as best I can.

Marshalling in the UK has been since it's inception, a voluntary job. The work people like Jackie Stewart and Syd Wadkins did on improving safety at race tracks has had an impact on marshals as well. When I say we are professional, I mean that we adopt a professional attitude to the work we do, not that we are paid for doing it.

There are many who would argue that if we paid marshals then standards would fall. On the basis I have not experienced this in the UK first hand then I cannot comment. I can say, as someone who has done quite a bit of training of marshals overseas, there are countries where marshals are paid, and the standard or work there is not a patch on those countries where marshals remain a volunteer force.

To be quite honest with you that is the way that marshalling has evolved and in many ways it works. I accept that relying on volunteers is not the best thing in the world, but I do honestly believe that the standards achieved by a volunteer force are far higher than the countries where we have paid marshals.

[schtix]

...Stephen Green, the man responsible for one of the best pieces of Formula One marshalling in history...

What was that then? Did he tackle the nutjob that invaded the track at the British GP a few years ago?

[Vitesse2]

What was that then? Did he tackle the nutjob that invaded the track at the British GP a few years ago?

Indeed he did. Plus having "The Priest Catcher" in his sig is a bit of a clue ...

[Broadway]

Indeed he did. Plus having "The Priest Catcher" in his sig is a bit of a clue ...

But the priest got all the fame:

[Beej]

Hi Stephen nice to see you on here. I will add to your comments about not being paid. As well as the reasons that you gave another big one is that if we were paid then H and S would get more involved and we would not be able to marshal. Also as a marshal I would rather be with a bunch of people who are there because they want to marshal than people that are only there to be paid to see the racing, which I am sure would happen if it became a paid position.

For the other members of the forum, we may not get paid but various organizations will help us out, the ones I can bring to mind is EBC give us a discount and the tours that Stephen has arranged.

At the end of the day I marshal because I want to be involved in motorsport and can not afford to race. I am passionate about the sport and the job that I do trackside.

[Josta]

They do get paid. I presume they don't have to pay to watch the race , so that is at least a hundred quid per gp.

[christoff]

They do get paid. I presume they don't have to pay to watch the race , so that is at least a hundred quid per gp.

Not all marshals make it to GPs, most save £10 or £15 not £100, standing in the precipitating rain all day with a half an hour break (spend 10 mins walking across the track for 10 mins in the warm and then 10 mins back to your post or drink coffee from your by now cold flask the choice is yours).

As is often the case in motorsport attention often centres on the glamorous top of the pile and not so much the less glamorous climb up it.

[rjk]

I accept that relying on volunteers is not the best thing in the world, but I do honestly believe that the standards achieved by a volunteer force are far higher than the countries where we have paid marshals.

Thats correct. You volunteer becos of ur love for the sport and hence you involvement will be complete.

Good job by you people each race. It wont happen without you guys

[kNt]

Maybe you could sell some advertising space on your uniforms to help cover your organisations expenses. Another scheme that works well are alumni, so you could maybe ask retired racedrivers to help you with your cause (or at least start collecting their adresses so you can send them stickers or a letter of what you did (the last year)as an organisation and why you need the money).

I don't know much about marshalling but in other fields there's the same thing with volounteers and paid jobs, when paid marshalling would be a low-pay job that attracts people that need the money.

[stephen green]

We do have sponsors who help support the club but that money is used to reduce the cost of overalls to our members.

So, do any race drivers or team owners wish to participate in the sticker scheme?

[Ross Stonefeld]

We don't have that many. The few people we do have tend to compete outside the UK unfortunately. So if you want to get a sticker on a Penske in the Indy500...

[stephen green]

Any car is welcome UK or otherwise but it is supporting UK marshals. Anyone who is interested please PM me for address details etc

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think you'd be better off in the Nostalgia section. There aren't many racing people in this end of the forum.

[stephen green]

Many thanks for the suggestion Russ

[stephen green]

I have re-posted this in the Nostalgia Form so maybe the Mods would close this thread for me as there is no point in it being duplicated?

Once again my thanks for all your help and suggestions to date.

[Slick]

While there is a discussion on the pay and duties of marshalls at races I can't see too much of a reason to close this thread. If it is restricted just to the fund raising question in the Opening Post then I would agree this is not the right place and would be better in For Sale and Wants forum.

[Arska]

As long as marshals aren't ready to go on strike to get some money for their participation, the powers-that-be will be quite happy with the current status quo of not paying marshals. It's up to the marshals to stop bending over for the general good of racing. I can't see asking the general public for donations (in the form of buying stickers) as a lasting solution, it's just going to make people think "Huh, don't F1 bosses have plenty of cash to be able to support marshals adequately?"

[Beej]

I can't see asking the general public for donations (in the form of buying stickers) as a lasting solution, it's just going to make people think "Huh, don't F1 bosses have plenty of cash to be able to support marshals adequately?"

If you read the OP again he is asking drivers and team members, not the public, if they would like to support the marshals. For club racers etc I am sure that they would not like to have a fee levied on them to support the marshals, so asking for a donation is not so bad, as we also marshal club events as well, not just the GP and as said before in this thread motorsport is a lot wider than just F1. Why should F1 bosses have to pay to support the marshals as most of the season they are out doing other events.

And also the OP is not looking for money to pay marshals, but to help recruit and train new marshals as we are volunteers. We will not be striking to be paid because we are happy with the situation as it is, we would just like more dedicated marshals on the bank to make sure even the most basic club event has sufficient cover to run safely.

[Arska]

Beej, thanks for you reply. I doubt that sticker buyers would be scrutinized in any way (i.e. "you're not a driver or team member so no sticker for you"), so in a way it is still targeted at everyone. I appreciate your point about marshalling lots of events besides F1, this leads me to think that the track owners should be providing funds to marshals and bigwigs of each series should be providing funds to track owners for marshaling purposes. As for how those monies would be used, that would be up to the marshals.

[cheapracer]

It's hardly appropriate to describe Stephen Green, the man responsible for one of the best pieces of Formula One marshalling in history, as "matey". How patronising.

He has explained how marshals have a love of motorsport and would never consider striking.

Be constructive rather than advocating mass disruption.

More power to Stephen's elbow - and well done and thank you to everyone who is a marshal.

Stick it Mate, thats simply Oz speak and nothing was meant by it.

I don't know who he is from a bar of soap but I made some efforts to help from my experience and exactly what have you done?

Did you miss the part in my post about being a Scrutineer and Flaggy? Or the part about being a President of a motorsports club? do you know how many controls and spectator points I've done for rallying? And just to show you what a masocist I am, I have even been club secretary and only those who have been a club secretary know what I mean by that. Well big rewards for me from all of those years .....

I've earned the right to pass comment on the subject, how about you?

[jesee]

Iam really suprised to hear that marshalls are not paid for the good work that they do. It has never occured to me that that was the case....except at my local karting club. I will definately make a point of getting a sticker whenever i can. Thanks Mr green for the good work that you and other marshalls do

[Bothedog]

Iam really suprised to hear that marshalls are not paid for the good work that they do. It has never occured to me that that was the case....except at my local karting club. I will definately make a point of getting a sticker whenever i can. Thanks Mr green for the good work that you and other marshalls do

I'm not. Cause they do get paid. It's kind of like being the dude that sprays water on the super models in swimsuit pictures. The best rewards are not monetary.

[stephen green]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. I've certainly never been able to spray young ladies or anyone else come to think of it?

[Gilles12]

Then you haven't lived!