105 replies to this topic

[potmotr]

In the current copy of F1 Racing magazine, Martin Brundle talks briefly about being hit on the head by Jos Verstappen's rolling Benetton in the 1994 Brazilian Grand Prix.

Martin says: (The bold is mine) "My first race at McLaren nearly killed me, too. Verstappen and Irvine crashed behind me and Verstappen's car rolled over mine and knocked my head. My mind's never been the same. If you hear me slur a word on TV or forget something, it's from that massive hit on the head."

As a Brundle fan I was quite surprised to read this, as he'd not mentioned any ongoing affects of that crash in anything I'd read, including his excellent book Working the Wheel.

I was wondering if anyone here knew anything more about how serious Martin's head injury was, whether it was correctly treated at the time, how it affected his subsequent driving career and quality of life since then?

Head injuries are nasty things.

You can see the original below, with Brundle appearing to be knocked out cold, then getting out of the car quite quickly.

Edited by potmotr, 17 May 2009 - 14:54.

[BigWicks]

i read that and thought the same, i wasn't sure if that was brundle just joking or being serious though !

everytime i watch that crash, i can't believe brundle's neck wasn't broken, he was so so so lucky

[Mat]

you know, ive never noticed his head being hit until then. Wow.

[Clatter]

you know, ive never noticed his head being hit until then. Wow.

Me neither. It's a wonder his neck wasnt broken.

[rdebourbon]

Me neither. It's a wonder his neck wasnt broken.

Yup that was very lucky.. WOW never noticed that before...

[sidny]

The human body is truly remarkable. I think he's still got the helmet with the tyre scuff( a little more than a scuff i know, but i couldn't think of a better word) don't mock me, i'm just a drummer!

Edited by sidny, 17 May 2009 - 15:45.

[lustigson]

I've never heard anything about this crash regarding Brundle. Is he serious in that interview?

[EvilPhil II]

I've never heard anything about this crash regarding Brundle. Is he serious in that interview?

And that crash was before the head and neck restraints that are now mandatory

[postajegenye]

In his book "Working the wheel", his comments about this crash are the following:

"It was the nearest I had ever come to dying."
"... I was working out how to do that while preparing to keep out of everyone's way.
The next thing I knew, I was in the gravel trap at the next corner, regaining consciousness and trying to work out how I had travelled half the length of the straight and left the road without knowing anything about it. I climbed from the car and turned round to find there was complete mayhem behind me."

"... A rear wheel hit my head. I've since seen a picture where my head is not visible, as if it had been knocked off. In fact, I was leaning forward, my head almost in my lap. The roll hoop behind my head carried a huge scar in the outline of a Benetton wheel, a mark that also appeared on my crash helmet. The car had taken most of the impact but if that wheel had been a few centimetres further forward, I would not be here to tell the tale."

He didn't mention any long-term effects.

Edited by postajegenye, 17 May 2009 - 16:18.

[Imperial]

In all the times Martin has covered this accident, including in Working The Wheel I've never seen him mention any lasting effects until this F1 Racing article. The way he mentions it in the article and knowing his sense of humour in the way he writes I think he is actually taking the piss and not being serious about slurring etc.

[OfficeLinebacker]

I think he's starting to get old and he's conveniently now referring to the crash.

Maybe he's also become a bit of a tippler? Thus the slurred word comment? I don't believe this, but I think the former is probable.

Also, having watched the video, wow his head gets tossed around like a rag doll's. Glad he's OK.

Edited by OfficeLinebacker, 17 May 2009 - 17:28.

[nada12]

Its probable that someday someone's killed or at least heavily injured that way. Wurz was also very lucky when Coulthard's car launched over his nose a couple years ago in Melbourne. Thats also why I think someday in the future there will be some sort of a cover over the drivers head, maybe like in a fighter jet. All it takes is one ripped off head (sorry for the mental image) in any OW-series and this discussion will arise.

[Burai]

He could well have post-concussion syndrome.

Either way, he's very good at hiding his slurring and memory loss.

[VoidNT]

I think he's starting to get old and he's conveniently now referring to the crash.

This might be the case, the age doesn't get you healthier, he might be now blaming that crash for new health difficulties. Anyway, I hope he is joking or trying to duck out of responsibility for something like last year's 'pikeys' comment.

Maybe he's also become a bit of a tippler?

After the Barcelona race he was eating the ice cream before the cameras on BBC. Could that be a symptom?

[muramasa]

Its probable that someday someone's killed or at least heavily injured that way. Wurz was also very lucky when Coulthard's car launched over his nose a couple years ago in Melbourne. Thats also why I think someday in the future there will be some sort of a cover over the drivers head, maybe like in a fighter jet. All it takes is one ripped off head (sorry for the mental image) in any OW-series and this discussion will arise.

yeah direct hit to the driver, head or his body, from above cannot be protected for open cockpit cars. btw i always wonder why sports cars adopted open cockpit...
anyway i think F1's head protection should be made even taller at least. current ones are not big enough, especially for some taller drivers.

[BigWicks]

kubica was so lucky in australia this year, that wheel missed his head by inches

but at the end of the day, you can't make the head protection any higher, because you end up in a situation where the drivers can't see out of the car and with open wheelers thats even more dangerous

[OfficeLinebacker]

yeah direct hit to the driver, head or his body, from above cannot be protected for open cockpit cars. btw i always wonder why sports cars adopted open cockpit...
anyway i think F1's head protection should be made even taller at least. current ones are not big enough, especially for some taller drivers.

I echo your sentiments. I think that it's an oxymoron for anyone representing an open cockpit series to claim that safety is of the utmost importance. It's as simple as that.

Safety is one area where I really like to toot the NASCAR horn. <toot toot!>

[BigWicks]

I echo your sentiments. I think that it's an oxymoron for anyone representing an open cockpit series to claim that safety is of the utmost importance. It's as simple as that.

Safety is one area where I really like to toot the NASCAR horn. <toot toot!>

so what do you want to happen, ban all open wheel racing?

and fact of the matter is, there have been more deaths in nascar in the last 10 years than f1. It's as simple as that.

[muramasa]

kubica was so lucky in australia this year, that wheel missed his head by inches

but at the end of the day, you can't make the head protection any higher, because you end up in a situation where the drivers can't see out of the car and with open wheelers thats even more dangerous

head protection can be made as high as you want, it just cant grow forward for the reason you stated.

Edited by muramasa, 17 May 2009 - 19:57.

[potmotr]

Thanks for posting the excerpts from the book postajegenye.

I think Brundle is quite serious about the 'never been the same' comment.

Many people who suffer a head injury feel this way.

Martin also says he still suffers after effects from the broken legs he recieved in 1984.

[Craven Morehead]

Sprint cars and top fuel dragsters have both shown us that it's entirely possible to build a cage around the driver's head. It's really just a question of esthetics then..

[Slowinfastout]

Even a mild concussion without losing consciousness can get you some permanent after-effects.. can do funny things to the memory, cognition and even the personality..

The thing is the changes can sometimes be hard to notice, but when it's your head even the smallest of changes can be fricking annoying!

Mild concussions are taken much more seriously today than back in '94.

[BigWicks]

head protection can be made as high as you want, it just cant grow forward for the reason you stated.

peripheral vision is so crucial for a driver, you completely remove that if you go any higher with the head protection

[Tolyngee]

All it takes is one ripped off head (sorry for the mental image) in any OW-series and this discussion will arise.

But we've already experienced a driver beheading in F1... October 6th, 1973...

35.5 years later, even after Senna, no cover...

[muramasa]

peripheral vision is so crucial for a driver, you completely remove that if you go any higher with the head protection

maybe i didnt make my point clear.

look at this pic, you can see toyota-f1.com logo on the side protection. making the area above the letter "m" higher is no problem.
http://premium.f1-li...a/diapo_174.jpg

here's anohter car just for reference.
http://premium.f1-li...a/diapo_341.jpg

[OfficeLinebacker]

and fact of the matter is, there have been more deaths in nascar in the last 10 years than f1. It's as simple as that.

That's an unfair comparison due to the difference in the length of races, number of races, and the number of competitors.

Edited by OfficeLinebacker, 17 May 2009 - 21:19.

[OfficeLinebacker]

maybe i didnt make my point clear.

look at this pic, you can see toyota-f1.com logo on the side protection. making the area above the letter "m" higher is no problem.
http://premium.f1-li...a/diapo_174.jpg

here's anohter car just for reference.
http://premium.f1-li...a/diapo_341.jpg

Actually from those pics it's clear that the driver's head protection is "head and shoulders" above what it was in 1994.

[muramasa]

Sprint cars and top fuel dragsters have both shown us that it's entirely possible to build a cage around the driver's head. It's really just a question of esthetics then..

i checked sprint car and dragster..

i think sprint car solution could be dangerous for F1. would be extremely difficult to make these pipes over the cockpit survive the impact of 300km+ without being very thick, therefore interfering drivers view.

sprint car's rollhoop over the head is tangible solution. would certainly work for F1 and other open cockpit cars. but yeah, it's a matter of aesthetics.







large pics
http://www4.army.mil...9-06-125745.jpg
http://www.wallpaper...uelDragster.jpg

[EvilPhil II]

Actually from those pics it's clear that the driver's head protection is "head and shoulders" above what it was in 1994.

Yeah there was'nt any until 1996. It was a completely free area and often the shoulders of drivers were visible.

[krapmeister]

Also remember that vision in a top fuel dragster is only required forwards of the driver, generally drag racers don't need to worry about cars trying to dive down the inside into a corner...

Edited by krapmeister, 17 May 2009 - 22:36.

[Apex]

Now that's what I call a rear wing!

[krapmeister]

The huge rear wing also has a safety benefit - it helps to reduce the impact of a roll over by acting as a 'crumple zone'.

[brabhamBT19]

he was cleared to race in the next race, so I suppose the worst case was maybe a minor concussion. I do not think it should left him with serious consequences

[Madras]

he was cleared to race in the next race, so I suppose the worst case was maybe a minor concussion. I do not think it should left him with serious consequences

As someone else said earlier even mild concussions can have lasting effects, often only really noticable to the person affected.

[brabhamBT19]

As someone else said earlier even mild concussions can have lasting effects, often only really noticable to the person affected.

His monaco shunt from mid 80 was far worse, because he couldnt answer doc. Watkins a simple question, and doc.Watkins sidelined him. Maybe that shunt left circumstances. Maybe Mark forgot about that

[sidny]

wasn't there 1 race when in a tyrrell (bad grammer i think) he crashed , ran back to the pits , got in the car and asked which circuit he was at? at which point ken told him to get out.

[Mat]

wasn't there 1 race when in a tyrrell (bad grammer i think) he crashed , ran back to the pits , got in the car and asked which circuit he was at? at which point ken told him to get out.

yeah, i head read that story too. Im pretty sure its true but im not sure which driver it involves. 

[Poltergeistes]

There is no doubt that since the senna accident one of the things that improved the most in F1 was safety, now some will credit that to mosley, i don't simply because it took people dying before they tried to enforce some basics of safety, so to me unfortunatly it was simply demage control.

The good thing was that they never stopped improving, specially the neck/spine protection, i think that is a real life saver in so many ways, I really beleive that if a crash like robert kubiça's had, he wasn't wearing that protection he would either have died, or be paralyzed.

If there is one way that the F1 safety must improve is concerning the new generation of drivers that are coming to f1, they are taller these days, so we need to make rules where they can be protected as well, not only where the head is concerned, seeing that their heads sometimes gets to be sticking out of the car higher than the others, but also concerning the weight.

Maybe have a rule that says they need to add ballast or something along those lines to make it that every driver's weight would be accounted for at least 70 kgs. That way taller drivers wouldn't have to go thru these crazy diets so that they can use kers on their cars... also because the teams push the weight so badly, they want to invest alot of money to gain maybe 1 or 2 kilograms, then can you imagine what they must ask of the drivers?

If you look at todays generation, and the one from the 80's clearly people's average height has gone up.

[Mila]

Tambay left a mark on the other side of Brundle's helmet eight years earlier in Monaco:

[Mat]

Tambay left a mark on the other side of Brundle's helmet eight years earlier in Monaco:

Before my time that one but I dont remember that! Those Marshalls were lucky. 

[PLAYLIFE]

wasn't there 1 race when in a tyrrell (bad grammer i think) he crashed , ran back to the pits , got in the car and asked which circuit he was at? at which point ken told him to get out.

I'm quite sure it's Brundle who tells that story yes.


I remember the Brazil 1994 accident very well at the time seeing Brundle's head get snapped around like that. I think Palmer mentioned in the commentary during the replay as well.

[lustigson]

Before my time that one but I dont remember that! Those Marshalls were lucky. 

Wow, you can say THAT again. It must have been mere inches that avoided the car from going over the armco.

[Ryongsyong]

kubica was so lucky in australia this year, that wheel missed his head by inches

I've seen a few people say this now but still can't understand why. Sure, the wheel nearly hit him, but at the time he was still travelling at the same speed and direction himself, so the difference in speed between him and the wheel as it went past would have been miniscule. Just because something's going fast it doesn't mean it will do any damage if the thing it hits is going at a very similar speed and direction.

[RoutariEnjinu]

Relativity

[ForeverF1]

kubica was so lucky in australia this year, that wheel missed his head by inches

You know, I was stood on the sidewalk in London and a big red bus went past and missed me by inches.... that was lucky....



or was it?.....

[Madras]

You know, I was stood on the sidewalk in London and a big red bus went past and missed me by inches.... that was lucky....



or was it?.....

Well, buses regularly drive next to sidewalks.

[muramasa]

Relativity

the earth is rotating at a speed of 1700km/h (500m/s) on the equator and orbiting around the sun at a speed of 100,000km/h (30km/s).
plus the sun is revolving around in the galaxy very fast
besides, our galaxy is travelling hastily towards somewhere in the space
btw where is the point of speed zero in the universe?

Edited by muramasa, 18 May 2009 - 10:22.

[ForeverF1]

Well, buses regularly drive next to sidewalks.

And, guess what, they miss people on the sidewalks.

Read the topic and the posts which prompted my reply, then you may see the humour.....

[hsvone]

the earth is rotating at a speed of 1700km/h (500m/s) on the equator and orbiting around the sun at a speed of 100,000km/h (30km/s).
plus the sun is revolving around in the galaxy very fast
besides, our galaxy is travelling hastily towards somewhere in the space
btw where is the point of speed zero in the universe?

Well to be more precise our galaxy is on a collision course with our neighbouring galaxy, the much larger Andromeda galaxy, and that should result in the end of our little solar system. And if we don't succeed in destroying our home planet, then you can be damn sure our Sun will do it sometime in the future.

The universe always freaks me out. It makes Formula One seem insignificant in the scheme of things.

As for MB yeah he was damn lucky only part of the wheel made contact with his head or that might have been the first F1 fatality I witnessed that season.

[potmotr]

As someone else said earlier even mild concussions can have lasting effects, often only really noticable to the person affected.

That is true, and it can be a heartbreaking experience, particularly for the victim's friends and family.

The Monaco crash in 1984 was Brundle's too.

He said in his book that he returned to the pits, climbed in the space, had the engine fired up then asked Ken Tyrrell which way the road turned at the exit of pitlane. At that point Ken leaned into the car and turned off the engine and told him to get out.

It isn't unusual for drivers to get knocked out though.

I was amazed to read in Mark Hughes book on Hamilton that the young Lewis had been knocked out no less than three times during crashes in Formula Renault and Formula 3.