429 replies to this topic

[MarkBisset]

 

Barney and Bess Dentry during the December 1936 AGP weekend at Victor Harbor, Riley Brooklands Special (Dentry Family Collection)

 

The pair finished fifth in the South Australian Centenary GP and won the 50 mile Olympic Handicap “their first win in 11 years of racing”. On the latter point they won the Benalla Centenary Race in April 1936, then lost on a protest and recount overnight.

 

 

Has a near the start-finish line feel about the location doesn’t it

Edited by MarkBisset, 24 February 2023 - 10:22.

[Ray Bell]

The long shadows certainly lean towards that...

 

As well as the size of the crowd.

[Porsche718]

Looking at the shadow on the road at the extreme left, Dentry is about to motor under the "Start/Finish" banner hung across the track.

 

Either that ... or batman has made an appearance!!!

[Ray Bell]

I'm glad you pointed that out, Steve...

 

That actually shows that he's just gone under it, one post supporting the banner is visible in the right side of the pic.

[MarkBisset]

  ginger girl names

 

Just bought the eminently forgettable 'Formula One Down Under : Australian Grand Prix History'. Rockpool Publishing have taxi credentials it seems, best to have stuck with that I suspect.

 

They have dealt with 1928 to 1984 most expeditiously, in 10 pages.

 

1927 is out too as an Australian Grand Prix it seems, CAMS Ltd t/as Motorsport Australia President Andrew Fraser tells us that "While there is some debate about the origins of the first ever Australian Grand Prix, that history dates back to at least 1928."

 

There's more on 1927 - perhaps from from contributors Phil Branagan and Luke West, it's not clear who wrote it - (P7) "A small asterix needs to be added to Phillip Island's claim-to-fame as first AGP venue. A year before Waite's triumph (in 1928) the NSW regional city of Goulburn hosted an event it called the Australian Grand Prix on its grassy showground. Lasting just seven minutes, this was more a speedway-style contest, whereas Phillip Island's distance, duration and track was more akin to the European notion of a Grand Prix."

 

 

 

 

 

On page 3 the introduction says that "This book was born from The Official History of the Australian Grand Prix - 80 Races published in 2015 by the Chevron Publishing Group. That tome included 49 chapters on each of the races held between 1928 and 1984..."

 

The foregoing is utter bullshit. The CAMS branded cover of that book (below) reads "The Official History of The Australian Grand Prix 80 Races" and the banner at the bottom reads "CAMS The Australian Grand Prix 1927-2014". That book includes a chapter on the 1927 race, to be clear.

 

I'm a first AGP was at Goulburn in January 1927 kinda guy, I don't mind people changing their minds, but don't bullshit me, don't lie.

 

Putting the merits of the 1927/1928 argument to one side, it seems in the CAMS corridors while 1927 was ok in 2014 when the last AGP tome was published, its now been 'whiteoutted out' in 2023.

 

So...it seems we will be celebrating the centenary of the AGP in 2028 at the Island, not 2027 in Goulburn?...

 

 

A book on the F1 period of AGP history is welcome, needed, it's why I bought it. But don't think this $39.99 book is on the same planet as the Graham Howard led - published in 1986 CAMS badged - "The Official 50-Race History of the Australian Grand Prix" original. That book is thoroughly researched, wonderfully rich in nuance, detail and context whereas this book is 'lite 'n fluffy'. "Its written for ****wits!" one of my more voluble of editors exclaimed yesterday. A better way of putting it is that the publication is a 'well priced' one aimed at the Instagrammers, not crusty pedantic pricks like me.

 

The design is great, the layout works but the Chinaman operating the Heidelbergs clearly isn't a fan of Australian foreign policy as the print/reproduction quality is variable. The photo captions vary from ok to banal to useless. Photo selection is variable too, there are no nudie-rudie body off shots at all - other than crashed cars - which is appropriate at least when there are changes in Formula.

 

The credits page lists "Copyright images Chevron Publishing Group, a division of next media Pty Ltd and John Morris/Mpix Photography. Images in The Road to Adelaide chapter from Bob King Collection, Fred Pearce and Ray Bell". Bob King hasn't got his cheque yet, how 'bout yours Ray? Further, "Copyright text Chevron Publishing Group, a division of next media Pty Ltd. Contributors: Phil Branagan and Luke West"

 

I think this means - but I don't know - that this book uses in modified form prose and happy snaps from the two previous Chevron AGP books with more recent material (2015-2022) written by Messrs Branagan and West. 

 

There are errors of course but I haven't read the book in full yet.

 

For the price of a few frothies I'm glad I bought it, but this latest AGP history book isn't on the same shelf in my study as the previous two.

Edited by MarkBisset, 23 March 2023 - 21:37.

[ellrosso]

Not too sure where to put this one as its about the AGP which finished about 1/2 an hour ago! Anyway Max V did rather better than his dad back in 1996, but my god, what a farce! I was almost speechless watching it all unfold on the box. The fastest car with an obviously top driver won with two equally top drivers behind him.

Oscar Piastri scored his first F1 points and the F2 races were fantastic over the weekend. Mixed bag.......

[ReWind]

Was that Dan or Don Willison?? 
Don Willison was a well known sidecar competitor on the speedways. And a friend of my fathers.
So HRD and 998 sounds familiar. Read Vincent HRD 998
I know he dabbled with cars around that period. What and how serious I have no idea.

A comprehensive portrait of Don Willison is provided by SpeedwayPast.com

[Porsche718]

Why are we so taken by the "The Australian GP In Former Days"?

 

Because the hierarchy of modern "effone" couldn't organise a school tuck shop. 

 

Absolute chaos!

 

What has the FIA learnt from the 2021 Abu Dhabi and the 2021 Belgian GPs?

 

Absolutely nothing.

 

There. I'm done. Where are my pills?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by MarkBisset
.....Images in The Road to Adelaide chapter from Bob King Collection, Fred Pearce and Ray Bell". Bob King hasn't got his cheque yet, how 'bout yours Ray?

No sign of it, Mark...

Nor have I heard anything about being paid for the work I did on the Chevron 80 years book, which I understand used my chapters from the 50 years book unchanged. But I've not seen the book at all, so I haven't been able to check.

And, if one looks at earlier posts in this thread, you will find several corrections I've made to the information in those books anyway.

[MarkBisset]

This article may be of interest to Phillip Island AGP fans; https://primotipo.co...ds-by-bob-king/

 

 

John Whiting, Arthur Terdich, '29 AGP winner, LCCA official, Les Murphy 35-36 winner, Jack Ould, David Watson, Bob Chamberlain - with Bess and Barney Dentry flanking him - Bill Chamberlain, Ron Edgerton, unknown, Bob King and Peter Menere. LCCA GM Ian McNight in the foreground

 

(Bob King Collection) circa 1980

Edited by MarkBisset, 01 July 2023 - 04:36.

[cooper997]

Slightly surprised to find these 1938 Bathurst AGP meeting photos so soon after the meeting in June 1938 Speed (UK) magazine. No doubt spurred on by P N Whitehead participating and winning.

 

A cropped version of this photo appears in Mr Medley's Bathurst tome, missing out on the Beith Terraplane being refuelled in the top LH corner.

 

Part of the pictorial centre pages of the same issue, shows Peter 's ERA.

 

 

Stephen

[Porsche718]

The caption for the Whitehead ERA photo is interesting.

 

"P. N. Whitehead in action in the first New South Wales G.P., which he won."

 

It was advertised as the Australian Grand Prix. The programme says Australian Grand Prix. So where did the English correspondent get this race title from?

[Ray Bell]

Well...

 

There was a time when the whole of the colonised part of Australia was known as 'New South Wales'.

[MarkBisset]

 

Go easy Steve,

 

The BRDC Speed mob probably had Optus as their internet provider.

 

It's hard to have a crack at the Poms when we can't - even in 2023 - get our shite together in relation to the 1927 and 1936 AGPs...dopey fukkahs that we are.

 

m 

 

Edited by MarkBisset, 30 November 2023 - 02:35.

[Porsche718]

I want to see the minutes of the meeting where the brainiacs decided that the 1936 South Australian Centenary Grand Prix would forever be known as the 1937 Australian Grand Prix?

Edited by Porsche718, 30 November 2023 - 04:46.

[Ray Bell]

Perhaps that was the same meeting which decreed that, henceforth, no races other than the Australian Grand Prix would be allowed to be called 'Grand Prix'...

 

Everyone took note of that, of course.

[cooper997]

In a quiet moment this past week Archie Scott-Brown's name came up as a Connaught Engineering entrant for the 2 Dec 1956 Australian GP and the previous weekend's Bryson Industries Cup - both held on the original Albert Park format.

This was of course the biggest meeting held in Melbourne at that point, with international teams and stars attending for both Australian Tourist Trophy and Grand Prix. Archie is listed in the event advert and information appearing in October 1956 Australian Motor Sports.

The simple answer to his non-appearance is possibly the tight budget Connaught ran, But does anyone know of data that might give the proper answer please? Period Autosport back in the UK perhaps (where my issues are lacking in the timeframes involved).


Stephen

[Ardmore]

Scott-Brown was rumoured to be a entrant in the 1957 New Zealand Grand Prix and then later reported as a definite starter.

 

The reason he did not come was said to be that Connaught had retired from racing and were putting their team cars up for auction.

[cooper997]

Thanks Milan, that makes sense in piggy backing internationals between both Australia and New Zealand as several of the other listed in the following advert did.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

[MarkBisset]

That’s interesting, I didn’t realise ASB was slated for Australia.

 

As you both know he wowed the Kiwi crowds in ‘58, did the full summer season, won at Wigram and blew-off Bernie’s Connaughts driven by Stuart Lewis-Evans and Roy Salvadori.

 

Given they didn’t flog the Lister in NZ at the end of the tour I wonder why they made the trip? BP involvement duly noted. Imagine what he could have done with a decent single-seater! 
 

M 

[GregThomas]

My old man always thought it was a combination of attractive start money and the chance to prove ASB's abilities to a wider audience. I believe there was still at that time some resistance in the establishment to allowing ASB to race singles seaters at GP level.

A successful tour down under must have opened some eyes in the UK.

 

As an aside, the same old man, in the 1970's, needing to repair his Mk7 Jag, went to Ransley Motors in Christchurch and bought the Vandervell lead bronze shell bearing set imported as spares for ASB in 1958 - and left on the shelf ever since. Local insider knowledge, lol.

[Catalina Park]

I wonder how CAMS would have accepted ASB?

[cooper997]

Hardly conclusive, but this December 1956 AMS Spotlight item "WHAT WITH..." may give a small clue to Archie's Albert Park non-appearance. I take it the unease would revolve around the Suez Canal issues?

 

 

 

Stephen

[Wirra]

Off topic.

 

Re item #1 above - I still have mine.

 

[TerryS]

No sign of it, Mark...

Nor have I heard anything about being paid for the work I did on the Chevron 80 years book, which I understand used my chapters from the 50 years book unchanged. But I've not seen the book at all, so I haven't been able to check.

And, if one looks at earlier posts in this thread, you will find several corrections I've made to the information in those books anyway.

 

I see that Chevron's 80 yearbook is being offered by them on line for $49.50 incl postage. It is said to be half price.

 

So sales can't have been too good.

[Ray Bell]

Thanks, Terry...

 

I might ask if they'll send me one in recognition of the content in it from me.

[cooper997]

Just placing this here as both cars have AGP history and perhaps a cashed up Aussie might like to bring them back to Oz (unless they are already sold)

 

From the pages of April 2024 The Automobile (that's just arrived in Aussie newsagents) has a bit of a writeup on the Downing Brooklands Riley with pre-war AGP history at Lobethal and then the Polson advert, Eddie Hall MG K3 could just as easily be advertised as longtime owned by Lyster Jackson & Otto Stone. Otto entering in the likes of 1950 and 53 AGP's amongst his many events with the car.

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[MarkBisset]

Cheers Stevo,

 

It's always sad when one of our treasures go back over-yonder, but if I owned one I'd be after a market price, the reality is you probably couldn't get that here for either that Riley or MG.

 

As you know the 'Yer Can't Flog Our Culcha Offshore Act' was invoked recently to stop the ex-Drake-Richmond T37 leaving the joint. As a punter I'm happy, if I'm the owner I wouldn't have been so joyous. I've seen Robbie a couple of times recently but haven't asked him, I must find out what happened. Probably a dibber-dobber situation.

 

See : https://www.arts.gov...ng the material.

 

I wonder when 'you can and you can't?' A question for a KC of course.  It would be a nice problem to have!

 

On the other hand, the good Dr King tells me three or so Bugattis have come our way recently, into Queensland it seems. Swings and roundabouts this year at least! 

 

m

[cooper997]

Mark, I believe they both left Aussie soil quite a period of time ago. But that makes at least 3 cars with Aussie history available in recent months for cashed up folk to bring back this way.. The ex Leaton Motors (Matich/ Chivas) Lotus 15 appeared in a full page Magneto issue advert. Be a good fix for the Lotus 12 going to Germany.

 

 

Stephen

[GreenMachine]

Interesting, back when the Earth was cooling and I was involved in aircraft restoration and museums stuff, there was a lot of interest in the YCFOCO Act (I remember the title somewhat differently  ), for restricting important historical exhibits being exported - in the lead-up there had been several highly significant aircraft exported.  There were some refusals, and one spectacular seizure on the wharf (IIRC) of a BF109 painted up as a P51 Mustang, whose owner (a certain well known Brit IIRC) had entirely innocently overlooked applying for permission to export  .  I believe that aircraft is in the AWM collection, and hopefully will be exhibited in the expanded facility with its 262 and 163 companions.

 

That was before I got more into cars, so how it has been invoked regarding historic automobilia I know not.