29 replies to this topic

[URY914]

The photographer asked if anyone knew what type of car this was. My guess is it's a Longhorn due to what is painted on the nose.

The picture was actually taken at a drag race were the car was on display.

http://www.flickr.co...gie/3560390735/

Thank you

[buckaluck]

Your may be right but it looks like a lotus ford in the back since the exhaust is on top but i'm sure there will be a more informed response.

Mike

[Rob G]

I'm not by any means an expert on 1960s Indy cars, but was there any such thing as a Longhorn in the '60s? There's a B between the horns, so I'm guessing that that symbol was for the team name and not a chassis manufacturer. I think the white station wagon visible above the car's rollover hoop is a 1967 Plymouth Fury, but judging by the shape of the race car I'd guess that the race car was a couple years older than the wagon.

Edited by Rob G, 27 May 2009 - 02:24.

[TrackDog]

I'm not an expert; but if that's a wing on the back of the car where those two spare tires are sitting, then it's probably an F5000 car from 1968-1969 or so. It might have been an Indycar at one time or another, though. And, it could have been a modified version of an older car.

I dunno just what it is...pretty interesting, though.



Dan

[raceannouncer2003]

A Marathon...see post 6 here

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=Marathon

Vince H.

[grandprix61]

A Marathon...see post 6 here

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=Marathon

Vince H.

It is an F5000 or Formula A car. Probably became outdated and end up getting dragged around the country. (no-pun intended) Ron

[raceannouncer2003]

It is an F5000 or Formula A car. Probably became outdated and end up getting dragged around the country. (no-pun intended) Ron

No, apparently an Indycar according to the thread.

Vince H.

[fines]

I think it's pretty clear it's the Marathon, even the paint scheme is the same!

I'm not an expert; but if that's a wing on the back of the car where those two spare tires are sitting, then it's probably an F5000 car from 1968-1969 or so.

I don't think that's a wing, it looks more like a tray connected to the trailer to store the wheels upon.

[kevinbartlett]

No, apparently an Indycar according to the thread.

Vince H.

Fines, I would agree that the structure is part of a trailer. Looking at the offset front suspension clearly defines the car as an Indy (USAC) car of the mid sixties. Longhorn maybe correct though it bares a striking resemblance to the Halibrand Shrikes

[RobertE]

It looks like a quad-cam Ford engine, so Marathon fits. There's a good website:

http://www.quadcamford.com/home.html

[rateus]

The #75 seems to have been singularly unsuccessful even for a Marathon - 3 appearances at Indy between 1967 and 1969 without qualifying and only one other outing, the Indianapolis Raceway double-header in 1968, where Bruce Jacobi at least gave it a couple of (slow) races.

[RA Historian]

Longhorns were built only in the years 1980-82. This car obviously predates that. Conclusion: definitely not a Longhorn!

[URY914]

OK, not a Longhorn

Yes, that is a twin cam Ford so it isn't a F5000 or FA.

A couple of things to note: the right front brake rotor it very rusty so it hasn't been run it awhile and notice the mirrors had to be mounted way up high to see over the intake stacks.

[fines]

Longhorns were built only in the years 1980-82. This car obviously predates that. Conclusion: definitely not a Longhorn!

Not entirely right - Longhorn built Sprint and Champ Cars before that, from the mid-seventies onwards, maybe earlier.

[Direct Drive]

Looks like an old cobbled up Lotus 34 or copy to me. I think, without proof that "Marathon Special" referred to Marathon Oil Co.

I think you guys are talking different "Longhorns."
The ones Bobby Hillin commissioned from Midland TX were Patrick Head designs, the last one an Indy compliant FW07 look alike.

Edited by Direct Drive, 27 May 2009 - 22:23.

[Peter Morley]

Looks like an old cobbled up Lotus 34 or copy to me. I think, without proof that "Marathon Special" referred to Marathon Oil Co.

Gerhardt made Lotus copies with Ford quad cam engines, could it be one of them?

[rateus]

Gerhardt made Lotus copies with Ford quad cam engines, could it be one of them?

Possible, but unlikely - no Gerhardt seems to have used the #75 in period.

However, one genuine Lotus did use that number - a Lotus 29 at the '66 Indy 500, entered by none other than Carroll Horton. The following year his own creations (aka Marathons) appear, with suspiciously Lotus-esque lines. Coincidence?

[DOHC]

Awfully rusty brake discs...

[T54]

I do not know too many F/A-F5000 with offset suspension... this looks very much like a 29 with a 4-cam in it. Since we kind of know where the 29's went, I have to assume that it is a very nice copy by... ???

[RA Historian]

Not entirely right - Longhorn built Sprint and Champ Cars before that, from the mid-seventies onwards, maybe earlier.

Errr, Champ Cars in the mid seventies? I don't believe so. Longhorn Racing (Hillin) entered the arena in 1979 with, IIRC, a Penske driven by Tom Bagley. The first Longhorn Champ Car, the LR-1, was built in 1980, followed the next two years by the LR-2 and LR-3. Driver was Al Unser all three years. Then the operation was sold to Chris Kneifel. My recollection is the same as Direct Drive's, in that the Longhorn Champ Cars were designed (and built?) at Williams.
Tom

[brabhamBT19]

its either

Gerhardt, Brawner-Hawk or Vollstedt.

[Cynic2]

I can't find the reference, but Carroll Horton built three copies of his Lotus 29, painted different colors. I do recall that one was gold, and called "the gold car."

A "Marathon" was entered by Diana Horton, Carroll Horton's wife (and by coincidence, a high school classmate of mine) at Indy in 1968. It was Ford-powered, numbered 75, and was driven by Ronnie Bucknam. It failed to qualify. While I don't have a reference to the color, I would bet that it was the gold car.

I'm certain this is the car pictured, and as it's at a drag strip, probably Indianapolis Raceway Park (which I think has a new name now).

Edit: Post 2 in the thread Vince referenced lists the colors of the three Hortons as gold, white, and green, and lists the source as Andrew Ferguson's "Team Lotus/The Indianapolis Years" as the source. I thought that was where I read the information on the three cars; checked, but couldn't find it. I wish Ferguson (and so many other authors) had used a more comprehensive index; Horton isn't listed.

I think that thread and post give further strong evidence that this is the Horton car.

Edited by Cynic2, 28 May 2009 - 15:30.

[philippe charuest]

Coyote ?? . the early one were lotus copy . like the one of snyder and foyt in 66

[Jim Thurman]

Errr, Champ Cars in the mid seventies? I don't believe so. Longhorn Racing (Hillin) entered the arena in 1979 with, IIRC, a Penske driven by Tom Bagley. The first Longhorn Champ Car, the LR-1, was built in 1980, followed the next two years by the LR-2 and LR-3. Driver was Al Unser all three years. Then the operation was sold to Chris Kneifel. My recollection is the same as Direct Drive's, in that the Longhorn Champ Cars were designed (and built?) at Williams.

Michael will certainly let you know, but I believe he's referring to the original "Champ Car" - as in the uprights used on what was then known as "Championship racing". They were not called "Dirt Cars" formally until 1971, the year after USAC dropped the dirt miles from the Championship schedule and created the series that later came to be known as "Silver Crown".

[fines]

Gentlemen, the question is already solved! Check out this picture:

http://img12.imagesh...llhorton.th.jpg

It IS a Marathon!

I think you guys are talking different "Longhorns."
The ones Bobby Hillin commissioned from Midland TX were Patrick Head designs, the last one an Indy compliant FW07 look alike.

No, different individual cars, but same make of car - from the same Bobby Hillin in Texas.

Errr, Champ Cars in the mid seventies? I don't believe so. Longhorn Racing (Hillin) entered the arena in 1979 with, IIRC, a Penske driven by Tom Bagley. The first Longhorn Champ Car, the LR-1, was built in 1980, followed the next two years by the LR-2 and LR-3. Driver was Al Unser all three years. Then the operation was sold to Chris Kneifel. My recollection is the same as Direct Drive's, in that the Longhorn Champ Cars were designed (and built?) at Williams.
Tom

Yes, Champ Cars in the mid seventies! Just a case of different terminology, I suppose: those Williams copies were what I would call Indy Cars. Champ Cars are to me still Championship dirt track cars, like Bobby Hillin's mid-seventies Longhorn "Hook 'em I, II etc." - I believe Jan Opperman had his terrible Indianapolis crash in one of 'em.


EDIT beat me to it, Jim!

Edited by fines, 28 May 2009 - 19:13.

[Bob Riebe]

Yes, Champ Cars in the mid seventies! Just a case of different terminology, I suppose: those Williams copies were what I would call Indy Cars. Champ Cars are to me still Championship dirt track cars, like Bobby Hillin's mid-seventies Longhorn "Hook 'em I, II etc." - I believe Jan Opperman had his terrible Indianapolis crash in one of 'em.

Also a car that Al Unser said was a near un-drivable whilst the next year Sheldon Kinser took it to sixth at Indianapolis.

[Big Panda]

Hey there....new to the forum. Lived in or around Indy nearly all my life. BIG Indy fan and fanatic.

Just a guess, but it looks very similar to the Lotus 34 that Parnelli Jones drove to 2nd place in 1965. Then again, maybe it's just the gold paintjob.....

The reasoning I'm using is this: the Lotus 34 had more of a 'smashed oval' nose as in this pic BUT the car has one right side intake snorkel (left side missing) which is the kind that was used on the Lotus 38 in 1965. I think this was a 34 that was 'updated' with some 38 parts. Of course there's no way of knowing "when" this update was done.

Loved those old early 'rear engined' cars. But then again I thought the Smokey Yunick 'side car' driven by Bobby Johns was cool too!

Edited by Big Panda, 29 May 2009 - 00:35.

[Big Panda]

A Marathon...see post 6 here

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=Marathon

Vince H.

The word "Marathon" referred to the sponsor of the car. It's not the chassis type.

[Tom Glowacki]

[font="Franklin Gothic Medium"]I can't find the reference, but Carroll Horton built three copies of his Lotus 29, painted different colors. I do recall that one was gold, and called "the gold car."

. . .
Post 2 in the thread Vince referenced lists the colors of the three Hortons as gold, white, and green, and lists the source as Andrew Ferguson's "Team Lotus/The Indianapolis Years" as the source. I thought that was where I read the information on the three cars; checked, but couldn't find it. I wish Ferguson (and so many other authors) had used a more comprehensive index; Horton isn't listed.

I think that thread and post give further strong evidence that this is the Horton car.

The Marathon chassis history is in the Ferguson book at Appendix 3 pages 235-236

[Cynic2]

The Marathon chassis history is in the Ferguson book at Appendix 3 pages 235-236

Thanks, Tom I knew I'd read it, thought it was in the Ferguson book, but Carroll Horton wasn't in the Index. I skimmed the book, apparently skimming right past the pages you mention.