17 replies to this topic

[Finchy]

As this fine gentleman is distantly related to myself and considering my occupation as a motorsport engineer / designer i was wondering if anybody has any further information or can put the information they have in this post please.
If you have any pictures, or know where there is some artwork or know of the owners of the Bugatti's he drove would be greatly appreciated.

We have all of the books and family tree etc tracing this back, but we ideally want to locate as much as possible considering the circumstances of his career and that he won the first monaco grand prix in 1929.

I look forward to hearing from you all

Regards

Brad

[Gary Davies]

Hi Finchy and welcome. You'll find there's a terrific search facility here. (Look towards the top right hand corner of the current window.)

Here are a couple of links at TNF to be going on with. Bon chance!!

http://forums.autosp...Grover williams

http://forums.autosp...Grover williams

http://forums.autosp...Grover williams

http://forums.autosp...Grover williams

Plenty more possible snippets by searching Grover Williams.

[Rob]

As this fine gentleman is distantly related to myself and considering my occupation as a motorsport engineer / designer i was wondering if anybody has any further information or can put the information they have in this post please.
If you have any pictures, or know where there is some artwork or know of the owners of the Bugatti's he drove would be greatly appreciated.

We have all of the books and family tree etc tracing this back, but we ideally want to locate as much as possible considering the circumstances of his career and that he won the first monaco grand prix in 1929.

I look forward to hearing from you all

Regards

Brad

Do you have a copy of Joe Saward's book, "The Grand Prix Saboteurs" ?

The book on Amazon.

He started out competing in local hillclimbs in a Hispano-Suiza. He won the Mont des Mules hillclimb in 1926 and in 1928 as well as a few other French hillclimbs I believe.

[Vitesse2]

I can't pretend this is perfect ...

http://www.forix.com/8w/rb-w-jpw.html

.... but it might help ;)

[rallen]

There was a Sunday Times article on him some years ago which game an amazing account of his life and it also said that it was likely he didn't end his days in a prison of war camp but went on to suggest/say (it was ten years ago I can't quite remember if they said it as fact but if not it was heavily suggested) that he ended up living in France to a ripe old age and was killed - ironically when a bus full of German tourists knocked him off his bicycle. It seemed a thorough investigation and the evidence seemed impressive from memory.

I remember reading it and being totally in awe of him, even now his life sounds made up, like a real life more exciting James Bond. I mean winning the Monaco Grand Prix, dating an artists model and socialite and being a spy!

[D-Type]

Ignore the Sunday Times suggestion that he survived the war, that article was heavily based on the fictionalised biography Early one morning. The meticuously researched Grand Prix Saboteurs by Joe Saward tells the true story.

[RStock]

Ignore the Sunday Times suggestion that he survived the war, that article was heavily based on the fictionalised biography Early one morning. The meticuously researched Grand Prix Saboteurs by Joe Saward tells the true story.

So , I take that he did not survive the war ? I remember reading somewhere a person thought to be Williams was seeking a way to the US , it was noted as unsubstantiated though .

He started his career as a motorcycle racer , from what I've seen also .

[D-Type]

No, and no. Read The Grand Prix Saboteurs and remember that the book is the result of 18 years of research to establish the truth.

Edited by D-Type, 06 January 2010 - 22:21.

[rallen]

No, and no. Read The Grand Prix Saboteurs and remember that the book is the result of 18 years of research to establish the truth.

Thanks D-Type, when I get a bit more money I will invest in a copy!

[Tim Murray]

You won't be disappointed - it's an excellent book.

[David Birchall]

I just ordered my copy-it is cheap from Amazon

Edited by David Birchall, 06 January 2010 - 23:42.

[Michael_Delaney]

You won't be disappointed - it's an excellent book.

Correct! I read it 2 years ago, had often tears in my eyes and was in a sad mood when finished! Williams, Benoit etc - they were very brave men!

MD

[taylov]

You won't be disappointed - it's an excellent book.

I was just finishing this stunning piece of research as you posted.

One aspect in the book that I had not read about before in terms of motor racing was the (understandable) degree of paranoia in 1945/6 about who had or had not collaborated with the enemy during the war.

Ettore Bugatti had his factory taken by the post-war French Government over the terms he had obtained from the Germans during WW2. Jean-Pierre Wimille faced accusations that he had betrayed Robert Benoist and the pre-war racer, Robert Mazaud, almost caused the French drivers to boycott the 1946 race at Nice when he was accused of making money during WW2 from the enemy.

The detail that Joe Saward has included is stunning. One for my top 10 list for sure.

Tony

Edited by taylov, 07 January 2010 - 10:37.

[Rob]

It's a fantastic read. The first book in a long time that I couldn't put down.

[hipperson]

rallen

Send me your address and I will post you the book FOC .

Agreed a fantastic read........................

also done the Richard Seaman book' Shooting Star ' Amazing

Now on the Berd Rosemeyer tome......equally amazing.

Nick Loudon dumped 50 such books on me...........long way to go.

[rallen]

rallen

Send me your address and I will post you the book FOC .

Agreed a fantastic read........................

also done the Richard Seaman book' Shooting Star ' Amazing

Now on the Berd Rosemeyer tome......equally amazing.

Nick Loudon dumped 50 such books on me...........long way to go.

Wow thank you, I have it in my Amazon wish list but I am 'between jobs' at the moment so if I ordered it my partner would kick me out! I have sent you a PM

Cheers!

[P.Dron]

Perhaps the most amusing 'Williams' rumour was that, having survived the war, he ran a haberdasher's shop in Godalming. You couldn't make it up, could you? Well somebody did...

Joe Saward's meticulous research leaves little doubt about the true, grisly fate of 'Williams'. I do wonder though, where that 'Tambal' story came from. Saward does not mention this person in his book. Did Robert Ryan simply invent 'Tambal' to make a convenient ending for his fantasy novel, or was there really someone called Georges Tambal, who moved in with Yvonne Grover-Williams and who later moved to Evreux where he had a final run-in with a German visiting France?

[Edit] I now see that this question has already been asked in another thread...but not answered. I also see that in DCN's version of the Godalming rumour, Williams was a greengrocer. Anyway, I presume 'Tambal' was pure invention (along with most of the 'facts' in Ryan's book).

Edited by P.Dron, 08 January 2010 - 10:43.

[D-Type]

Wow thank you, I have it in my Amazon wish list but I am 'between jobs' at the moment so if I ordered it my partner would kick me out! I have sent you a PM

Cheers!

In all seriousness, try your local library - they can request it from anywhere in the borough's library system and can then go on to approach other libraries. And if you are a "temporary gentleman" I think they waive the fees.