13 replies to this topic

[MPea3]

I'm starting this thread in the hope of finding out more about the car and it's history. I'm also hoping to find out more about the car after the death of George Robson at Lakewood in 1946. One story often told is that Cliff Bergere, owner of the car when Robson died, cut the car to pieces afterward stating that it had killed two of his friends. In spite of that the car seems to have a history afterward, including being the car William Gretsinger (Bill Mackey) died in at Williams Grove on Black Sunday. Story also has it that it ended up in the hands of Buck Baker in NASCAR's Speedway Division before ending up ion Spartanburg, South Carolina before being returned to the Speedway some time in the 70's where it was restored and shows itself in the Speedway Museum.

A photo of the car in the Museum can be seen at http://www.geocities...500/museum.html

It certainly looks nothing like it did at Lakewood in 1946, Robson's car having different looking bodywork and larger tires. I suppose that's normal for any of the cars built in the 30's but raced over the years.

On a related note, I was shown a photograph of the aftermath of the Robson Barringer accident taken from in front of the cars looking back up toward turn 2. While the location of the accident has always been listed as "entering turn 3", this seems to not be true. Just before entering turn 3 the lake came to the inside edge of the track and a cesspool bordered the outside. The accident clearly is on teh back straight before the entrance to turn 3 and just after the second of the two spectator hills. As I find out more I'll post in either the 1946 thread or one of the Lakewood threads.

[fines]

I'm confused, Mark, which car do you want info on - the 1938 Speedway winner, or the 1941 winner? Both ran as "Noc-Out Hose Clamp Specials" for a time, both were built and run by Lou Moore's team, both had Curly Wetteroth bodywork and both were involved in fatal accidents, so it's quite easy to get them mixed up. And it appears you are also confusing Bill Mackey with Walt Brown...;)

To wit: the 1938 winner was apparently built in 1937 for Mauri Rose and Bill Cummings to drive as a "Non-Championship Car", today one would say Sprint Car. It was rebuilt as a Champ Car in '38 for Floyd Roberts, who won at Indy but had little luck elsewhere until he crashed fatally with it at Indy in '39. Rebuilt again, it was apparently raced by George Connor, Floyd Davis and perhaps Duke Nalon, but it's difficult to track without proper photographs - there were several cars running as "Burd Piston Ring Special" in the late thirties, and numbers kept changing. By 1940, it was the "Noc-Out Hose Clamp Special" and run exclusively by Cliff Bergere, who purchased it around this time, and put it on pole at Indy in '46. Later that year, George Robson crashed fatally with it. As you say, the story goes that Bergere subsequently took the car apart, but I've seen this scenario rubbished by a reputed name, but for the life of me can't recall who!!! Ain't that sad... Anyway, this car was never again seen in competition, and so far I don't think I've seen anything in the Historic scene pretending to have its history, but I wouldn't be surprised...

The 1941 winner was built in 1939 with the money won by the '38 winner, and it was co-owned by Moore and Roberts, initially. Superficially, it was very similar, although it was a "two-springer", meaning it had transverse leaf springs front and rear - the other car had a cross spring in the rear, but two longitudinal (or, "parallel") springs at the front! Frank Wearne was ninth at Indy in it, then Mauri Rose won at Syracuse and was third at Indy in 1940, and Duke Nalon also appears to have driven it, but again tracking it is tricky. Fred Peters from New Jersey purchased it prior to the 1946 Indy 500, and Joie Chitwood took 5th, and later that year Ted Horn ran it in Champ Car events, and Johnny Shackleford, Walt Ader and perhaps others in Sprint Car events. This car had an extremely brilliant finishing record, and apparently ran more than 3,000 miles in succession without retirement! Chitwood again drove at Indy in '47, and then Bill Holland on the dirt tracks, winning at Milwaukee and Langhorne. Peters died in 1948, and his long time chief mechanic Ken Fowler appears to have campaigned the car until a buyer was found later that year, Ray Carter, who was apparently also from New Jersey, but relocated to Atlanta (GA). Fittingly, Mel Hansen won a 100-miler at Lakewood Park in September with the car, then Troy Ruttman made his National Championship debut early the following year, almost winning at Arlington Downs in Texas! He barely qualified at Indy, and by now the car was well past its sell-by date, and drivers like Sam Hanks, Henry Banks, Bob Sweikert, Mark Light or Walt Brown couldn't qualify it for any event over the next two years. Brown died on "Black Sunday" at Williams Grove, by which time the car was owned by one Jack Robbins, it seems, then things get a bit murky. Reputedly, the car was fitted with a Cadillac engine, and run in NASCAR's Speedway Division by Penny Mullis for Buck Baker, who promptly won the Championship thanks to its still phantastic finishing record, but in late '53 it seems to have returned to Offy power and AAA competition!??? The last possible trace I can find of it is an entry by Speed McFee in August 1955 at the Bedford Fair 10-miler, finishing 8th - an ignominious end for a once proud warhorse!

[MPea3]

Thank you so much, things are now making more sense. I'd raised the question earlier today if we were talking about two different cars, after seeing two cars entered at Indy in 1946, both listed as Wetteroth/Offy's, both mentioned as being Noc-Out specials, and one bearing the date 1937 (Bergere) and one 1939 (Chitwood).

As far as Bill Mackey, I was going based on this...

http://www.findagrav...p...r&GRid=1410

Next question, any idea what happened to the Wolfe Special in which Tex Barringer also died at Lakewood? I've been told it was rebuilt but don't seem to know of any racing history for the car afterward.

-edit- Now I see where my mistake was in reading the obituary on Bill Mackey. I wasn't confusing them, I just had it totally wrong!

Edited by MPea3, 14 June 2009 - 23:12.

[fines]

Thanks for the link, it settled a question I had on Mackey for a long time: whether his real name was Gretsinger or Greisinger, and I also had the wrong middle initial!

Next question, any idea what happened to the Wolfe Special in which Tex Barringer also died at Lakewood? I've been told it was rebuilt but don't seem to know of any racing history for the car afterward.

Yes, it was rebuilt, and run the following year by Paul Russo at Indy. Built in 1936 by a certain Warren Wilbur Shaw (metal work by Myron Stevens), and modelled after the famous "Catfish", it won Indy in 1937 and collected a lot of good dirt track results over the years, including a second place at Arlington Downs in 1947, the last race it ran in its original configuration. After that, it was bought by Ted Nyquist of Pennsylvania, who rebuilt it completely (http://www.indy500.c...../imsc4102.jpg, compared to 1947 http://www.indy500.c...../imsc4029.jpg). Somehow, it lost speed with this rebuilt and never performed again, and Nyquist sold it to Lee Glessner of West Virginia in 1949, who put George Metzler into the cockpit, only to crash fatally at Indy. Mark Light is said to have completed another rebuilt for Glessner, and was given the car in 1950, but couldn't get up to qualifying speed. Glessner pulled the engine and replaced the Clemons in his Dixon dirt car with it, and the Shaw car was possibly scrapped...

[MPea3]

... but for the life of me can't recall who!!! Ain't that sad...

They say the mind is the second thing to go.

Thank you so much for your help, this goes a long way in answering some questions locally. I'll have the new Lakewood & Robson/Barringer photos up soon.

[JB Miltonian]

By chance, I came across an article on the 1941 car today in the "Escape Road" column of Autoweek, June 4, 1990, written by Donald Davidson, who should know what he is talking about. I know nothing about the subject, but if you'd like to see the article (1 page), send me a PM with your email address and I'll scan and send it to you.

[MPea3]

PM sent. Thank you!

[MPea3]

Just got and read the article, thank you very much. Interesting article, not a lot of new info but well put together. Now if only Donald Davidson and the IMS Museum could learn that Spartanburg is in South Carolina.

[Henri Greuter]

probably long overdure by now.
One of the Hungness yearbooks published in the 70's, (can't remember which one) also had an article about the car and how it got into te IMS museum collection.


henri

[fines]

Just got and read the article, thank you very much. Interesting article, not a lot of new info but well put together. Now if only Donald Davidson and the IMS Museum could learn that Spartanburg is in South Carolina.

Ditto, thanks "Milt"!

Sadly, the article isn't very specific about the whereabouts of the car in later years, except for Bob Harkey driving it in 1957. That being a looong time before he appears on my radar, I'd wager we're talking VERY MINOR leagues here! Also interesting that there appears to be not much left of the original car, just "grille, nose, cowl and tail", and possibly the wheels, all of which heavily renovated, but I guess that's par for historic racing cars in the US.

[ensign14]

More to the point, what the flip is a Noc-Out Hose Clamp? And why were they so important/ubiquitous that a company making them could afford to sponsor a 500 entry?

[MPea3]

The 1946 Indy results show both of the cars discussed, Chitwood driving the Noc-Out Hose Clamp Special and Bergere Driving the Noc-Out Clamp Special. First, is this correct, and second, by this point were these just the names of the cars or did the company still have some sort of sponsorship involved?

[fines]

Bergere: http://www.indy500.c...../imsc4242.jpg

Chitwood: http://www.indy500.c...../imsc3034.jpg

Both cars show "Noc-Out Hose Clamp" signage. I don't think we should look at this kind of sponsorship in the way we look at "Marlboro Team Penske", or "Target Chip Ganassi". In those times, trade companies like "Bowes Seal Fast" (tyre patches!) or "Burd Piston Ring" (well, piston rings!) etc. probably paid only nominal sums to the teams in return for race day privileges and a bit of publicity. Those were sponsors in the way that medieval monarchs would have a few artists and scientists on their payroll, more a case of an enthusiast's support for something dear to his heart, or perhaps for a sort of popular image. Comparable to an ad on the page of the race programme these days, I would think.

[MPea3]

More to the point, what the flip is a Noc-Out Hose Clamp? And why were they so important/ubiquitous that a company making them could afford to sponsor a 500 entry?

According to the Gordon Eliot White book on Kurtis-Kraft, the "Noc-Out" hose clamp was produced by the Wittek Company in Chicago, Illinois and was a standard design which pre-dated the "Jubilee" clamp made by the British company I. Robinson. The Jubilee clamp was the first hose clamp which used a worm screw acting on serrations in the clamp strip.