81 replies to this topic

[wide-front-wing]

I hate to admit it - but they now hold all the cards.

We already know that this kind of split destroys the series. All NASCAR has to do now is go global. They are the only major series who seems to get that at all cost - you never destroy what got you to where you are.

Thanks Max and Luca!

[Brawn BGP 001]

I really got into NASCAR this year and I must say I really enjoy it.

[WillG]

They are the only major series who seems to get that at all cost - you never destroy what got you to where you are.

Sorry, but LOL!

[Ali_G]

NASCAR hasn't much relevance outside of North America.

A lot of Europeans think that F1 is like scalextric. I'd hate to see what they'd think of a series where cars stay on their own slot in the track and where marshalls throw yellows every 50 laps for invisible debris.

[alg7_munif]

Nascar could be the pinnacle of motorsports if they could turn right too, not only left.

[TARKUS]

Yes, soon the world will know about boogity, boogity, boogity....it can`t be stopped. From Alabama to Monte Carlo.

[Northern Munkee]

NO! I like Nascar but a world sport it is not.

I think MotoGP would currently have a better shout at the pinnacle of world motorsport currently, if there is such a thing beyond F1, which in some regards is only viewed that way after Bernie's 'promotion' (by hook or by crook) to put it there, I mean at one time Sportscars/Group C got almost on equal footing until BE set about getting the manufacturers out of there and into F1.

[imaginesix]

I hate to admit it - but they now hold all the cards.

We already know that this kind of split destroys the series. All NASCAR has to do now is go global. They are the only major series who seems to get that at all cost - you never destroy what got you to where you are.

Thanks Max and Luca!

Luckily, NASCAR sucks. It will never gain a worldwide following.

Onwards Formule Libre!

[Lada Lover]

boogity boogity boogity

[HoldenRT]

Gosh darn, will ya'll look at that it's Ricky Bobby coming acrows the finish liiiine. Ryan-Hunter-Billy-Bob-Bush comes across in 2nd.

[Dulok]

They are the only major series who seems to get that at all cost - you never destroy what got you to where you are.

COT? the chase? old school southern tracks? non-SMI/ISC independent tracks?

They've made major changes that pissed off a lot of people. I've been a NASCAR fan a long time but I just don't like a lot of the changes. I don't go to any races anymore and barely pay attention to most races while they are on TV, I'm busy doing other things instead.

[blueracer6]

They are the only major series who seems to get that at all cost - you never destroy what got you to where you are.

You do realize that most NASCAR fans are up in arms about various aspects of the sport, with many feeling like the Brian France tenure has done nothing but weaken and degrade the sport...right?

[PassWind]

I hate to admit it - but they now hold all the cards.

We already know that this kind of split destroys the series. All NASCAR has to do now is go global. They are the only major series who seems to get that at all cost - you never destroy what got you to where you are.

Thanks Max and Luca!

You say it like there is some mystical battle going on, its really not that dramatic regardless of how many on this board try and turn motorsport into Big Brother

[whitewaterMkII]

It's actually very funny.
For some reason Formula racing, wherever it's conducted is totally political.
Meanwhile the France family mafia hasn't changed a thing since 1960 about running their series.
They never saw the need to spend a gajillion dollars, or expand very far from where they started.
Yet they and the racers that are stars in their traveling circus are all rolling fat and happy while the OW racers tear themselves to pieces and blow about ten times the money.
BTW, watch both F1 and NASCAR on a road course this weekend and check in on Monday which race was better.
If you would see politics than racing, f1 is the BEST!

[Supersleeper]

If NASCAR was the only racing series on Earth, it still wouldn't be the pinnacle.

[Yellowmc]

If NASCAR was the only racing series on Earth, it still wouldn't be the pinnacle.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Oh boy, another NASCAR vs. F1 thread.

Nascar could be the pinnacle of motorsports if they could turn right too, not only left.

Funny you should say that...they're at a road course this very weekend!

A winding course with plenty of elevation changes, nice scenery, cheap tickets, a nice crowd, plenty of telemetry and oh yeah, coverage in HD.

Seriously though, they're turning left & right this weekend and there are no less than three ex F1 racers on the entry list.

[whitewaterMkII]

If NASCAR was the only racing series on Earth, it still wouldn't be the pinnacle.

And I'm sure they are totally OK with that.
Meanwhile those dumb ass hillbillys will keep up on counting their $$$ while stuffing their garage with exotics and trying to figure out which is the killer new private jet to buy.

[slideways]

NASCAR is the pinnacle of motorshows.

Edited by slideways, 19 June 2009 - 04:25.

[HoldenRT]

Oh boy, another NASCAR vs. F1 thread.



Funny you should say that...they're at a road course this very weekend!

A winding course with plenty of elevation changes, nice scenery, cheap tickets, a nice crowd, plenty of telemetry and oh yeah, coverage in HD.

Seriously though, they're turning left & right this weekend and there are no less than three ex F1 racers on the entry list.

Maybe you'll have to change your sig if FOTA gets it's way next season.

[REN_AF1]

NASCAR.. phfff Cirkus freaks!! My money is on Russian ice racing as the new pinnacle of motor racing...

R

[UPRC]

NASCAR? Pft, more like this: http://www.letsmow.com/

[The Ragged Edge]

NASCAR hasn't much relevance outside of North America.

A lot of Europeans think that F1 is like scalextric. I'd hate to see what they'd think of a series where cars stay on their own slot in the track and where marshalls throw yellows every 50 laps for invisible debris.

+1

[Lazy Prodigy]

what makes nascar the pinnacle? Its not the speed, not the car, not the technology. What is is? Drivers, competetion, tracks. As long as nascar is a spec series it will never be the pinnacle of motorsports. MotoGP has a better shot than nascar, and possibly even WRC

[dabrasco]

Usain Bolt racing is more pinnacle than Nascar


seriously though, this is just you venting as a disappointed FIA supporter

[Jones Foyer]

I hate to admit it - but they now hold all the cards.

We already know that this kind of split destroys the series. All NASCAR has to do now is go global. They are the only major series who seems to get that at all cost - you never destroy what got you to where you are.

Thanks Max and Luca!

If popularity is what it takes to be the "pinnacle of motorsports" then I want no part of that fan base. Without F1, LeMans is the pinnacle, to me because of the sophistication of the machinery, the heritage of the circuit, and the top level, international drivers.

Just because NASCAR has lots of advertising money and a lot of rednecks who watch it doesn't put it to the head of class, it is simply the popular dumb jock of the class.

[jeze]

With the prosposed 2010 MotoGP rules in mind, that series risks ruining itself anyway, since any rider has only one bike, and if he crashes it i qualifying, he'll be out for the rest of the session! Add the crazy prosposal that factory teams only could hire experienced riders, and you all see where it is going! I don't think opel wheel racing in Europe will be that damaged, since there's no real rival, like NASCAR was to Indycar in 1995. Those series were about equal then, but there are no such rivalry in Europe. The FOTA Grand Prix Series would be the pinnacle of motorsport still.

Edited by jeze, 19 June 2009 - 16:59.

[Ryongsyong]

Le Mans is currently the most technically advanced/free motorsport there is. Unfortunately, it won't be from 2011 onwards after the pathetic new engine rules the ACO are bringing in. Good going guys!

(What is it with French governing bodies?)

[MichaelPM]

And I'm sure they are totally OK with that.
Meanwhile those dumb ass hillbillys will keep up on counting their $$$ while stuffing their garage with exotics and trying to figure out which is the killer new private jet to buy.

Because that is what motorsport is all about

[Collective]

Pinnacle? C'mon... all their engineers do is body-shop spec cars. What does it have to do with the job of F1 teams of designing a car?

[Don_Humpador]

Funny you should say that...they're at a road course this very weekend!

A winding course with plenty of elevation changes, nice scenery, cheap tickets, a nice crowd, plenty of telemetry and oh yeah, coverage in HD.

Seriously though, they're turning left & right this weekend and there are no less than three ex F1 racers on the entry list.

A road course?

Wow.

I must remember not to watch.

Edited by Don_Humpador, 19 June 2009 - 17:25.

[canon1753]

what makes nascar the pinnacle? Its not the speed, not the car, not the technology. What is is? Drivers, competetion, tracks. As long as nascar is a spec series it will never be the pinnacle of motorsports. MotoGP has a better shot than nascar, and possibly even WRC

NASCAR is really not a spec series, like F2 or FPA is. It is, since the introduction of the COT, much more regulated and the COT is a spec chassis, but motors are regulated but you build your own engine, and so on. It isn't spec like junior formulae, but it does allow for engineering and some cost containment while allowing for a good race. Mind you, yeah for the COT because it is safe, but I'd rather 1990 spec NASCAR than todays. It's like F1 actually, too much money isn't good for competition.

[canon1753]

A road course?

Wow.

I must remember not to watch.

Are you a NASCAR fan or not in favor of NASCAR road races, which from a road racer fan perspective is a lot of fun to watch actually.

[ex Rhodie racer]

NASCAR? What´s that? Is that some sort of space programme, and if so, what´s it got to do with motorracing? Please excuse my ignorance, but I´ve never heard of it.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Oh BTW I completely disagree with the premise of this thread.

NASCAR always HAS BEEN the pinnacle of motorsports.

<slinks off to put on asbestos suit>

[OfficeLinebacker]

NASCAR? What´s that? Is that some sort of space programme, and if so, what´s it got to do with motorracing? Please excuse my ignorance, but I´ve never heard of it.

You can't be serious?

Wikipedia that ****.

[whitewaterMkII]

Just because NASCAR has lots of advertising money and a lot of rednecks who watch it doesn't put it to the head of class, it is simply the popular and extremely wealthy dumb jock of the class.

Fixed it for you...

[Bob Riebe]

NASCAR is the result of a creator who ran his series with an iron fist, but who did not let his ego, transfer to how his series was run.
With the death of Big Bill France some years ago (and no matter who was supposedly running what, Big Bill, ran till the day he died) the cracks are starting to show.

NASCAR was a regional series with a very fast track. Through the seventies it had stiffl competiton from other regional series: ARCA, ASA, ARTGO, IMSA, USAC and other local series.

Bill France profitied from the other series mis-managment and after a fiasco conflict with ASA, was careful to pick-up the pieces from other's collapse, and was becoming a 800 pound gorilla without being arrogant about doing so.
When U.S. road racing and open wheel racing, which had been the darling of racing rags through the eighties collapsed, NASCAR was again ready to fill any gaps created.

Stock cars, including NASCAR, actually raced on road courses far more often in the early years, slowly dying off in the seventies.

The change of stock cars from mod. prod. cars into generic tube frame farces will be the death of NASCAR.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 19 June 2009 - 17:56.

[whitewaterMkII]

The change of stock cars from mod. prod. cars into generic tube frame farces will be the death of NASCAR.

In that case it's a long slow death, they have had tube frames since the early eighties. If the manufacturers, and teams, had not gone into the realm of designing body panels to take advantage of Big Bill and his traveling road show, they could have kept hanging stock metal on the tube frames, which BTW, is magnitudes more safe than running 'stock' cars at 200mph. I don't believe that NASCAR had any choice left but to go to one size fits all body panels. The teams were squawking incessantly about taking a half inch off their car and putting an inch on the other teams car. Cey, I think the COT is ugly as a brick shethouse, too, but the teams are the one's that made that decision for NASCAR, not the other way around.

[Seanspeed]

Bit of a knee-jerk thread, it seems.

[BMW_F1]

There is no such thing as pinnacle of motorsport. They are just a bunch of different racing series for different taste.

Some people like coffee others like tea or chocolate ..

[Dragonfly]

NASCAR is now the pinnacle of motorsports.

[ZenSpeed]

Nascar could be the pinnacle of motorsports if they could turn right too, not only left.

[Bob Riebe]

In that case it's a long slow death, they have had tube frames since the early eighties. If the manufacturers, and teams, had not gone into the realm of designing body panels to take advantage of Big Bill and his traveling road show, they could have kept hanging stock metal on the tube frames, which BTW, is magnitudes more safe than running 'stock' cars at 200mph. I don't believe that NASCAR had any choice left but to go to one size fits all body panels. The teams were squawking incessantly about taking a half inch off their car and putting an inch on the other teams car. Cey, I think the COT is ugly as a brick shethouse, too, but the teams are the one's that made that decision for NASCAR, not the other way around.

&
As far as the NASCAR historians have been able to find, the last NASCAR stocker that was built off of body in white was '73 Torino built for Bobby Unser, but remember when the new Ford Thunder Bird came out and exposed the square Chevy Monte Carlos and Pontiac Grand Prix to be the bricks they were, Big Bill told Chevy and Pontiac if you want to race a fast-back then you had better sell X number from your show rooms first.

It was the non-existent RWD tauri and Luninas that started the road to absolute farce, PLUS when Chevy brought out their new post Lumina swoopy design and it turned out to be a absolute failure, Big Bill had passed, so the France boy instead of telling them to go back and redo it, the race cars were simply built different from the production cars, that was straw that truly exposed the farce NASCAR had become. (Engine politics in the past ten years is another reh herring but you get my point.)

[ex Rhodie racer]

You can't be serious?

Wikipedia that ****.

[Victor]

NASCAR is the pineapple of motor sport not the pinnacle...
What a joke!

[OfficeLinebacker]

Look, if you're serious, wikipedia is going to give you a better answer than anything you'll find on here.

If you're too lazy to even do that, then WTF man, you must not care that much so you can just ignore it.

[johnap]

There is no pinnacle of motorsport.

Nascar is the pinnacle of oval racing

F1 is the pinnacle of circuit racing

Le Mans is the pinnacle of endurance racing

Indycar is a pale shadow of its former self...FTG/CART RIP

etc. The whole Nascar vs F1 debate is one of the silliest debates in sport, they are apples and oranges.

[rollover]

..............after winning the Silverstone race, Kyle Bush pulled into victory lane, slapped the Queen on the royal fannie, pissed in the trophy, poured the champagne out and filled the bottle with a mixture of BudLight-Gatorade-moonshine, thanked Halfords, Big Max's European Rib Shacks and Bernie's travelling Souveneer stand along with the rest of his sponsors

Just think,,,,,,,,,it could happen!

[OfficeLinebacker]

..............after winning the Silverstone race, Kyle Bush pulled into victory lane, slapped the Queen on the royal fannie, pissed in the trophy, poured the champagne out and filled the bottle with a mixture of BudLight-Gatorade-moonshine, thanked Halfords, Big Max's European Rib Shacks and Bernie's travelling Souveneer stand along with the rest of his sponsors

Just think,,,,,,,,,it could happen!

And badmouthed Kimi Raikkonen as a drunken hack who can't produce results and decried all of England as having bad teeth and bland food.