17 replies to this topic

[MattKellett]

I've just read an article on the Porsche 917 in the PCA Panorama magazine and it mentions that Brian Redman was classified in both 1st and 2nd places at Daytona in 1970.

Redman piloted both the #1 car with Jo Siffert and the #2 car with Pedro Rodriguez and Leo Kinnunen. From what I have read Brian took over driving the #2 car while the clutch was being replaced on the #1 car.

So have there been any other drivers who have classified in more than one position in the same race and what was the reason for the classifications?

[Lee Nicolle]

Never heard of that scenario, there has been no end of people taking over another car in endurance racing, mid race. But not being classified as a placegetter in both cars. Classified in final results ofcourse, usually the second car as DNF or way down the order.

[MoMurray]

Never heard of that scenario, there has been no end of people taking over another car in endurance racing, mid race. But not being classified as a placegetter in both cars. Classified in final results ofcourse, usually the second car as DNF or way down the order.

Derek Daly was classified as 1st and 2nd at Sebring in 1990. The team moved him from one car to another during the race and he beat himself by almost two minutes...

1. 83 Derek Daly (IRL)
Bob Earl (USA)
DNS - Geoff Brabham (AUS)
DNS - Chip Robinson (USA) Nissan GTP ZX-T 88-01 Nissan Performance Tech. 301 12:00:41,932 1. GTP 4. 1:56,651
2. 84 Derek Daly (IRL)
Chip Robinson (USA)
Geoff Brabham (AUS) Nissan GTP ZX-T 88-04 Nissan Performance Tech. 301 12:02:09,746 2. GTP 1. 1:55,767
3. 61 Davy Jones (USA)
Jan Lammers (NL)
Andy Wallace (GB) Jaguar XJR-12D TWR-J12C-388 Castrol Jaguar Racing 301 3. GTP 12. 2:00,546

[Rob G]

There were numerous instances of drivers being classified as finishers in two cars during Grand Prix races up until the late 1950s, when a rule change disallowed points for shared drives. This is a listing of just the World Championship F1 races; there were probably more of these occurrences in non-championship Grands Prix both pre- and post-WWII. Note that in only two races did drivers finish well enough to score points in two different cars.

1951 French GP: Fagioli and Fangio were both classified 1st and 11th (22 laps down). Fangio's car had a bad misfire that was eventually cured and was driven by Fagioli after the Italian had to give up his own seat to allow Fangio to race a competitive car.

1955 Argentine GP: The intense heat made for a dizzying amount of driver swaps. Farina and Trintignant were classified in 2nd and 3rd in Ferraris, and Schell was 6th and 7th (plus a retirement) in Maseratis.

1956 Monaco GP: Fangio had spun and was driving erratically in his haste to make up time, and when he damaged a wheel he pitted and handed the car over to Castellotti. Later, however, he replaced Collins and finished a close 2nd place. Castellotti brought Fangio's original car home 4th.

1956 British GP: De Portago had to give up his car when Collins retired with mechanical troubles, but he took over for Castellotti later. He was classified 2nd and 10th.

1956 Italian GP: This was the famous race where Collins sportingly gave his car and his chance at a championship to Fangio after the latter suffered suspension failure on his own car. Fangio drove Collins' car to 2nd place and the title, while his original car was classified 8th.

[David McKinney]

Going back even further, Alfa Romeo driver Boris Ivanowski was first and third in the 1929 Irish Grand Prix
Resullts were decided on the basis of performances in the Saorstad Cup for 1500s on the Friday afternoon, and the Eirann Cup for bigger cars the next day. Ivanowski won both, so was given first place in the Irish GP in the 6C-1750, and third in the 6C-1500

[Rob Semmeling]

Hans-Joachim Stuck was classified 11th and 15th at the 2008 Nürburgring 24-hour race. He drove two of the VW Scirocco's. He also finished 1st and 2nd at the race in 2004 driving two BMWs M3 GTR, much like Pedro Lamy, who was his team mate on both cars.

The following year Lamy again finished 1st and 2nd with those BMWs.

[fines]

I believe Rolf Stommelen once finished first and second at Daytona or Sebring, late sixties, but endurance racing is not my forte. At Indy, it was not uncommon during the times when relief drivers were almost the norm, i.e. roughly through to the fifties. Pete de Paolo and Jules Ellingboe were both "classified" in the top six twice in the same year, and Cy Patschke drove relief for both the winner and fifth (?) place in 1911. I'm sure digging will turn up more cases like that...

[Ray Bell]

The infamous Moffat/Ickx - Bond/Hamilton finish at Bathurst was at one time going to be like that...

Bond had been Moffat's team mate all year and they were running strongly towards a 1 - 2 finish. Moffat approached Bond and suggested they swap cars for the final stint so both could be classified winners.

[RA Historian]

Jim Hall and Hap Sharp were first and second in the 1965 Road America 500. Hall started the race in one Chaparral, driving the first third before turning it over to Hap Sharp. Sharp drove a third and Ronnie Hissom finished the race. This car was the winning car.

The second Chaparral entered was started by Hap Sharp. He turned it over to Bruce Jennings and hopped into the first Chaparral. At two-thirds distance (both Chaparrals ran on a two pit stop strategy) Jennings pitted and Jim Hall took over for the last segment.

Hence Hall and Sharp both were first and second in the same race.

Two years earlier Augie Pabst was first and eighth in the 1963 running. He started the race in the Mecom Ferrari GTO, driving the first half before pitting and turning the wheel over to Roger Penske. Pabst was supposedly done for the day, but Bill Wuesthoff, who was driving solo in Ollie Schmidt's new Elva Porsche, decided that he was tiring too much. Wuesthoff signaled for relief, and Augie grabbed him helmet and jumped into the cockpit of a very unfamiliar car for the last quarter of the race. Augie promptly spun the car at turn five on his first lap, but figured out what all the switches and levers did, got the car going, and won the race. Penske brought the Ferrari in eighth.

The next year Augie did it again, but not as dramatically. Mecom entered two cars, a Ferrari 275-LM for Walt Hansgen and a Lola Mk VI for Pabst, with both supposedly driving solo. Augie was running second after a dramatic charge through the field when the Lola broke. He then spelled Hansgen, driving the middle third of the race. The car dutifully won, so Augie was both a first and a dnf in this race.

Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 02 July 2009 - 21:01.

[Stephen W]

I seem to remember Mike Hailwood finishing in first and second at a Spa 1000kms race with Mirage - I'll double check and get back to you on that one!

[D-Type]

I had the impression that 'playing musical chairs' was rife in 1950's endurance racing, but a look at Martin Krejki's site doesn't show that many examples

Sweden 1956 Peter Collins 1st & 2nd (Ferrari)
Buenos Aires 1957 Eugenio Castellotti 1st & 3rd (Ferrari)
Sweden 1957 Stirling Moss 1st & 3rd (Maserati)
Nurburgring 1958 Musso 4th & 5th (Ferrari)
and most remarkable of all:
Targa Florio 1959 Strahle and Mahler and Linge 2nd & 4th (Porsche) - all three drove both cars

At some stage, I think the rule was changed so that a driver pairing could transfer to another car only when their car was eliminated from the race.

But it later changed back as there are some more recent examples which I can't find.

Edited by D-Type, 26 May 2020 - 14:48.

[Rob]

Didn't Dieter Quester finish first and second once?

[timbo]

Not so much classified finishing in two places, but motorcycle racer Steve Parrish once recalled how his team-mate at the time, Barry Sheene had knee problems (amongst all his other injuries) and was unable to qualify his Suzuki 500cc GP bike for a GP, so Parrish put on Sheene's helmet and leathers, and jumped on Sheene's bike and qualified for him, with officials none the wiser that it was actually Parrish on the bike, and not Sheene.

Steve Parrish then joked about making a mistake by qualifying Sheene higher up the grid than himself.

[Kevan]

There were a few 1-hour/2-driver mini-endurance races run in the BTCC in the late 80's- at one of these (Oulton Park 1987), Chris Hodgetts and his Toyota GB team entered two Corollas in the 1600cc class, but arrived with only two drivers, Hodgetts and Tiff Needell, entered in both cars.
Both cars qualified and both started the race, Hodgetts in one, Needell in the other, and once the pitstop 'window' opened, the two cars pitted together, Chris and Tiff swapped cars and went on their way. Final result in the class, 1st Hodgetts/Needell, 2nd Needell/Hodgetts.....

Edited by Kevan, 23 June 2009 - 11:24.

[Roger Clark]

I had the impression that 'playing musical chairs' was rife in 1950's endurance racing, but a look at Mrtin Krejki's site doesn't show that many examples

Sweden 1956 Peter Collins 1st & 2nd (Ferrari)
Buenos Aires 1957 Eugenio Castellotti 1st & 3rd (Ferrari)
Sweden 1957 Stirling Moss 1st & 3rd (Maserati)
Nurburgring 1958 Musso 4th & 5th (Ferrari)
and most remarkable of all:
Targa Florio 1959 Strahle and Mahler and Linge 2nd & 4th (Porsche) - all three drove both cars

At some stage, I think the rule was changed so that a driver pairing could transfer to another car only when their car was eliminated from the race.

But it later changed back as there are some more recent examples which I can't find.

THere was more seat swapping but not necessarily with both cars finishing.

[D-Type]

THere was more seat swapping but not necessarily with both cars finishing.

Ah, that explains it! It's obvious if I think about it.
I wonder... can this count as this month's signature justification?

[Murray Lord]

We have discussed this before: http://forums.autosp...w...c=70437&hl=

[MattKellett]

Well it certainly seems that this is not such a unique result. I had known of drivers taking over another car, but not placing twice in one race.

Murray, thanks for the link, couldn't find anything with search on this topic. Most interesting post on that thread to me was by Frank de Jong where he wrote - Jarama 1974, ETTC, where Toine Hezemans was first (in a Capri) and second (in an Escort) overall - AND won both divisions.

This topic really does fansinate me, not sure why, but I find it very interesting. It also seems like this list will not be added to with the regulations that stand now.


Matt

Edited by MattKellett, 23 June 2009 - 16:57.