49 replies to this topic

[mach4]

This is a slightly different question from what series you will be following. I'm interested in knowing what defines the pinnacle of motorsport for you.

For me the most advanced technology and fastest lap times are a huge factor and perhaps the most important one. If FOTA does breakaway it will be very interesting to see which series has the fastest cars.

One concern though is that FOTA will make sure to have the fastest cars but will not take the sporting side seriously. For example, I'm sure that the 2005 US GP would have been very different under FOTA, they would have put the show over the sport and for me that devalues a series.

[Xig]

I voted for the fastest.

But I think that it must also feature the most technologically advanced racing machines.

[slideways]

Why even have a poll, it's obviously all of the above with various other factors.

[Scaramanga]

... its where the best teams and the drivers race the most technically advanced vehicle.

History counts, so does brands, but its not that one dimensional- its a combination of all those things. A driver and team needs to win amongst its peers, and when it does then they are at the pinnacle.

[Lazy Prodigy]

its where the best of the best compete.

[BMW_F1]

how about they are all different .. and there is no pinnacle. This term was made up based on preference.

[alfista]

Taking only those 3 factors into account, NASCAR is the pinnacle because:
1) it was formed in 1947, F1 in 1950, NASCAR is marketed by far better than F1 so its name is bigger
2) NASCAR involves world largest manufacturers #1 (2007, Toyota), #2 (GM) and #4 (Ford), Renault as the second largest in F1 is only #5; it's very hard to compare how big teams are, but while F1 have only 2 cars each, some NASCAR teams have more
3) Mark Martin's average recently in Michigan was 249 kph while F1 highest average at all is 247.

Actually I think you can't calculate which series is "the pinnacle".

Edited by alfista, 21 June 2009 - 08:11.

[wide-front-wing]

Identity and Branding is everything.

There is one series and one series alone that gets that is is not willing to dick around with it's brand.

NASCAR.

FOTA and Mosley are sealing the fate of the greatest motor sport brand the world has ever seen as each day goes by. Ego maniac executive who don't give a **** about the fact that having this battle out in the open is destroying the sport.

NASCAR's business model is unrivaled, and if and when F1 splits they alone will be left at the top.

[Mauseri]

Best drivers, best manufacturers, fastest cars.

[TwoCents]

Most technologically advanced.

[Victor_RO]

All of the above. 'Nuff said.

Edited by Victor_RO, 20 June 2009 - 20:34.

[BMW_F1]

Most technologically advanced.

LeMans?

[bigginge]

NASCAR is marketed by far better than F1 so its name is bigger

You're kidding right?

[TwoCents]

LeMans?

Ehm no, I was thinking F1. I would not put sportscars as more technologically advanced than F1. That is, before F1 slowly becomes a spec series of course

[Seanspeed]

how about they are all different .. and there is no pinnacle. This term was made up based on preference.

Pretty much.

Trying to claim your favorite series is the pinnacle of all motorsports sounds like arrogant nonsense.

[LB]

It should be the series that all the drivers aspire to race in. everything else is secondary.

[Seanspeed]

It should be the series that all the drivers aspire to race in. everything else is secondary.

But no series encompasses all disciplines. Not every open-wheel racer aspires to go to F1 because some of them might want to do some oval racing. And there's some pro karters that have no interest in getting into car racing. What about bike racing? Bike racers obviously dont follow any sort of car racing ladder. And then there's the drivers here in the States who care about getting to NASCAR and could care less about F1.

There is no 'pinnacle' of motorsports. There might be pinnacles of certain disciplines, but thats it. F1 is simply the pinnacle of open-wheel car road racing.

[Ali_G]

Taking only those 3 factors into account, NASCAR is the pinnacle because:
1) it was formed in 1947, F1 in 1950, NASCAR is marketed by far better than F1 so its name is bigger
2) NASCAR involves world largest manufacturers #1 (2007, Toyota), #2 (GM) and #4 (Ford), Renault as the second largest in F1 is only #5; it's very hard to compare how big teams are, but while F1 have only 2 cars each, some NASCAR teams have more
3) Mark Martin's average recently in Michigan was 249 kph while F1 highest average at all is 24.

Actually I think you can't calculate which series is "the pinnacle".

1. What difference does this mean. F1 can trace its history all the way back to the first Gordon Bennett Cup race in 1900. And what do you mean marketed better. No one gives a rats arse about NASCAR outside of North America.
2. I think you'll find that GM is currently no 3 behind Toyota and VW. You'll also find that GM is in bankruptcy proceedings and shrinking rapidly.
3. What does average speed have to do with anything. Put F1 cars on an oval and lets see what speed they will do. By your logic, top fuel dragsters i the pinnacle.

Edited by Ali_G, 20 June 2009 - 21:12.

[Jambo]

Nascar is bigger than F1 in one way, Nascar = 6 letters/numbers, F1 = 2.

And I like Nascar.

Edited by Jambo, 20 June 2009 - 21:12.

[Seanspeed]

1. What difference does this mean. F1 can trace its history all the way back to the first Gordon Bennett Cup race in 1900. And what do you mean marketed better. No one gives a rats arse about NASCAR outside of North America.
2. I think you'll find that GM is currently no 3 behind Toyota and VW. You'll also find that GM is in bankruptcy proceedings and shrinking rapidly.
3. What does average speed have to do with anything. Put F1 cars on an oval and lets see what speed they will do. By your logic, top fuel dragsters i the pinnacle.

And I'm sure NASCAR's roots can be traced back further if you wanted to get picky about it.

Anyways, I think you're misunderstanding him. He wasn't trying to be serious about it, he was just using those as examples of how you cant really apply those types of logic in order to prove that something is better than something else.

[Arska]

It's the one one with the buzz.

[BMW_F1]

No one gives a rats arse about NASCAR outside of North America.

that's not completely accurate.. Ever heard of an Aussie ex V8 champion called Marcos Ambrose..?

[Arska]

that's not completely accurate.. Ever heard of an Aussie ex V8 champion called Marcos Ambrose..?

I have heard his name mentioned somewhere, but what's your point?

[bigginge]

I have heard his name mentioned somewhere, but what's your point?

It seems he moved to Nascar. I presume the implication being that Australians therefore care about nascar?

Edited by bigginge, 20 June 2009 - 21:56.

[kNt]

Voted fastest cars, it probably should be fastest safe cars or fastest cars with a reasonable set of rules.

[Mauseri]

I cant believe a national stock car series is again raised here.

[OfficeLinebacker]

I voted for the fastest.

But I think that it must also feature the most technologically advanced racing machines.

its where the best of the best compete.

I think that the best of the best competitors will naturally gravitate towards the series with the rules which allow best of the best equipment.

Ergo, fastest. Temporary disruptions will happen but market forces should, in the long run, favor fastest.

[BlackCat]

ultimate speed - Land Speed Record

[OfficeLinebacker]

I wish people would just shut up with the inflammatory comments about NASCAR. I mean the comments making NASCAR out to be more important and/or better than F1.

It's just not true on a global scale and all it does is make people even more biased against NASCAR and NASCAR apologists, of which I am one!

[alg7_munif]

What is the meaning of fastest? Fastest lap time? Fastest top speed?

[Broadway]

I voted "other". It is of course where the best drivers are. Somehow they usually end up where the best cars is. But remove the drivers and there is nothing but a science project. They rarely attract a huge fan base and has zero cap-selling value.

[BMW_F1]

I have heard his name mentioned somewhere, but what's your point?

read the line that I replied to.. and what I said.. "its not completely accurate."

Edited by BMW_F1, 21 June 2009 - 01:36.

[BMW_F1]

It seems he moved to Nascar. I presume the implication being that Australians therefore care about nascar?

that is your implication, not mine.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Why does it matter? Can you only watch racing because it is 'the pinnacle' and won't follow or enjoy other forms of competition?

[F1 Fan 6785]

I will miss the history of F1 but I have had enough of Max and Bernie and the FIA it is time for the teams to move on and form a new series under their own rules this is the best way forward because Spanky and Bernie have lost the plot.

[ex Rhodie racer]

A slight correction to the title of this thread if I may. Shouldn´t it read, what is the pinnacle of 4 wheel motorsport? F1 (or whatever your own personal choice is) can hardly be compared to motorcycle racing, or power boat racing for example, even though they are both "motorsports".

Edited by ex Rhodie racer, 21 June 2009 - 07:26.

[alfista]

And I'm sure NASCAR's roots can be traced back further if you wanted to get picky about it.

Anyways, I think you're misunderstanding him. He wasn't trying to be serious about it, he was just using those as examples of how you cant really apply those types of logic in order to prove that something is better than something else.

Thanks Seanspeed, it's nice when someone reads all the post including first and last sentence before replying. Talking seriously - I am the last one in the world who thinks NASCAR is the pinnacle of motorsport. Eventually it's only regional series albeit a big one.
As I wrote you can't calculate which is the biggest series but IMO it must involve best drivers and teams, advanced technology, lots of money, global presence, big manufacturers, media attention. So it seems to be F1 as we know it (ant this time I am serious)

[PhilG]

The pinnacle has to be the most technologically advanced, no question.

All american racing is about the show, and packing the field, racing $10 cars for $1M purses, which is what makes it a show , and gets it a following. Nascar is about using antiquated equipment to promote the latest stuff,where F1 is the opposite.
I think Sports car racing is best now because of its engineering freedom, and thats where the future design gurus will come from.

[kismet]

The series 10-year-old aspiring racers want to win when they grow up.

[giacomo]

The definition for 'pinnacle of motorsport'? A hollow phrase, most probably.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Depending on what country you grow up in, that series will be different.

[alfista]

The pinnacle has to be the most technologically advanced, no question.

All american racing is about the show, and packing the field, racing $10 cars for $1M purses, which is what makes it a show , and gets it a following. Nascar is about using antiquated equipment to promote the latest stuff,where F1 is the opposite.
I think Sports car racing is best now because of its engineering freedom, and thats where the future design gurus will come from.

Max, it's you? No, you are not, for that last sentence. Real Max tried to sell us technology without show and I don't think those high-speed processions were overly fascinating. I'd rather prefer some old-school low-tech racing. Then I also believe that sportscars will be a pinnacle concerning technology, actually they already are.
Talking about hi-tech, I think the most advanced racing cars ever were those of "old" DTM. Pretty much everything was computer-controlled there.

[kismet]

Depending on what country you grow up in, that series will be different.

Absolutely, but wouldn't that also reflect the perception that there really is no such thing as a single undisputed pinnacle of motorsporting excellence but several in their own way viable candidates?

Edited by kismet, 21 June 2009 - 16:17.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Shhh, don't say that too loud, people will get upset.

[VicR]

Fastest cars on a single lap that turn right and left on that very lep..

Edited by VicR, 21 June 2009 - 19:34.

[noikeee]

Why does it matter? Can you only watch racing because it is 'the pinnacle' and won't follow or enjoy other forms of competition?

[Ducks McTeeth]

GP racing is like the 100 metre sprint in the Olympics - supposedly the most interesting and all but for me the best has always been "the marathon", namely endurance racing (>1000 km) or better still, long rallies like the old East African Safari. All the other stuff is a flash in the pan. That said, GP racing has had its great moments, but unfortunately none of them have been in the past decade.

[Sakae]

Pinnacle of racing is exhibited by its race track success through advanced technology, and competing prestige firms with famous drivers in their stables. Glitz, colors, beautiful girls, noise, fast cars, speed, and danger, all blending weekend charm with suspense, and uniqueness of the event.

[Tomerell]

The pinnacle of motorsport is series where:
-The cars are fastest on the planet
-The technology used is the best possible
-Rules are clear and not changed every year
-Engines are not limited anything else but the amount of cylinders and cc.
-No spec units what so ever

If F1 can get back there it will be but I fear the

[wide-front-wing]

Absolutely, but wouldn't that also reflect the perception that there really is no such thing as a single undisputed pinnacle of motorsporting excellence but several in their own way viable candidates?

The only problem is that Formula One is currently "a single undisputed pinnacle of motorsporting excellence".

Of course, once it splits all bets are off.

And by the way, I see no problem whatsoever in calling a single series the top of the sport (F1) - it's human nature to designate and then aspire to the best.