19 replies to this topic

[Keke Rosberg]

Hello
I was reading the Senna/Lotus book last night, one of the passage says that Piquet and Senna initially started off quite friendly to each other. In 1983, Senna seek advice from Piquet regarding his entry into F1 and Piquet suggested him to join Brabham because one day he'd probably leave the team and Senna could then become # 1 at Brabham. For some reason Senna went to Toleman instead. However at the beginning of 85, Piquet discovered that Senna's management team used underhand tactics to try to poach Piquet's personal sponsor which angered Piquet, this was how the 2 drivers developed a hatred toward each other.

I'm not sure if the above account is accurate as we've heard many times that Piquet had tried to block Senna from joining the Brabham team by talking to the team's main sponsor (Parmalat I supposed) that he'd leave if Senna was joining.

so which story is the truth? anyone knows?
Also, if the first story was accurate, which sponsor was Senna's mgmt team trying to get? because I don't think Piquet had any 'personal' sponsor - he always said that he hated having one because he didn't like doing PR works.

[brabhamBT19]

I heared or read somewhere that Senna actually went to inrtoduce himself to Piquet in 1983 because he thought it is expected of him as he already was confirmed for 1984. I do not know why he thought that, maybe he even admired Piquet at the time. When he came to Piquet they shook hands an Piquet said; sorry I have to go I have something important to do. That actually offended young Senna who expected that they will spend at least an hour chatting about 1984. Ever since Senna hated Piquet. Now I do not know how much of this is true because I cannot really recall the source let alone recall if the source was reliable.

Edited by brabhamBT19, 23 June 2009 - 20:37.

[Chezrome]

I heared or read somewhere that Senna actually went to inrtoduce himself to Piquet in 1983 because he thought it is expected of him as he already was confirmed for 1984. I do not know why he thought that, maybe he even admired Piquet at the time. When he came to Piquet they shook hands an Piquet said; sorry I have to go I have something important to do. That actually offended young Senna who expected that they will spend at least an hour chatting about 1984. Ever since Senna hated Piquet. Now I do not know how much of this is true because I cannot really recall the source let alone recall if the source was reliable.

I remember that Mike Doodson or another reporter that was friendly with Piquet, thought that Piquet was very rude about Senna. That he questioned Senna's sexuality, etc, and furthermore that these scathing remarkts were unprovoked. If someone has Grand Prix Internationals in a complete series, they could look up the last interview Piquet gave before he left Brabham. There's an allusion to Piquets remarks about Senna there.

My idea has always been that Piquet was simply jealous of Senna and also could not understand the singlemindedness of Senna. Senna was of a new breed, and Piquet did not like what he saw.

[Tim Murray]

I think that the interview where Piquet questioned Senna's sexuality appeared in a Brazilian newspaper in the lead-up to the 1988 Brazilian GP. This was shortly followed by another interview, in the Brazilian version of Playboy, where he repeated the Senna allegations and also called Mansell an uneducated fool with an ugly wife.

If this is correct, this would have been over four years after their possible earlier disagreement referred to by 'Keke Rosberg'.

[brabhamBT19]

Well the fact is Senna was naive and maybe even a bit autistic and in his early years benevolent, while Piquet was smart, cunning but awfully malicious and that led to certain kind of mental abuse for sure. Hell he managed abuse Mansell who was mentally stronger than Senna. Only Prost was strong enough to fend off Piquets malicious attacks.

[giacomo]

I heared or read somewhere that Senna actually went to inrtoduce himself to Piquet in 1983 because he thought it is expected of him as he already was confirmed for 1984. I do not know why he thought that, maybe he even admired Piquet at the time. When he came to Piquet they shook hands an Piquet said; sorry I have to go I have something important to do. That actually offended young Senna who expected that they will spend at least an hour chatting about 1984. Ever since Senna hated Piquet. Now I do not know how much of this is true because I cannot really recall the source let alone recall if the source was reliable.

IIRC this episode did not happen in 1983 but during the 1982 Zolder GP weekend, when FF driver Senna went to meet his countryman and WDC Piquet, who did not know him and only had time for a short shakehands. And Senna took it personally.

[brabhamBT19]

IIRC this episode did not happen in 1983 but during the 1982 Zolder GP weekend, when FF driver Senna went to meet his countryman and WDC Piquet, who did not know him and only had time for a short shakehands. And Senna took it personally.

could this be the occasion of incident/misunderstanding

[Formula Once]

As I understand it, Piquet was very much against Senna joining Brabham for 1984, although he did not have to try too hard to stop Ecclestone from signing him as Parmalat did not like having two Brazilians in the team anyway. By the way: as far as I remember, Senna did not impress when he tested the Brabham.

Edited by Formula Once, 08 July 2009 - 17:31.

[Henri Greuter]

As I understand it, Piquet was very much against Senna joining Brabham for 1984, although he did not have to try too hard to stop Ecclestone from signing him as Parmalat did not like having two Brazilians in the team anyway. By the way: as far as I remember, Senna did not impress when he tested the Brabham.

Piquet neverwanted a teammate that could be a challenge to him speedwise.
Look at the list of his teammates. The only decent ones he had were Lauda in his first year (now that wasn't strange) and Mansell at Williams.
Every other teammate he had otherwise were lap dogs.
Fransois Hesnault as the ultimate approval of that.


Henri

[brabhamBT19]

Piquet neverwanted a teammate that could be a challenge to him speedwise.
Look at the list of his teammates. The only decent ones he had were Lauda in his first year (now that wasn't strange) and Mansell at Williams.
Every other teammate he had otherwise were lap dogs.
Fransois Hesnault as the ultimate approval of that.


Henri

Hector Rebaque was worse

but there was good teammates also not only Mansell and Lauda, like Alesandro Nannini, hadnt it been for that accident he could have made great results in F1, also Riccardo Patrese was more than decent teammate.

Edited by brabhamBT19, 09 July 2009 - 07:16.

[Henri Greuter]

Hector Rebaque was worse

but there was good teammates also not only Mansell and Lauda, like Alesandro Nannini, hadnt it been for that accident he could have made great results in F1, also Riccardo Patrese was more than decent teammate.

Well, in defence of Hesnault, he stepped straight into the 1000+ hp Brabham-BMW. And he deserves Kudo's for accepting the car to be too much for him and quit while he was still in one piece and alive....

Rebaque did fairly well in CART in either 81 or 82....


henri

[Formula Once]

Rebaque, Zunino and Hesnault all brought money to the Brabham-team (partly to pay for Piquet's salary), whilst the Italians (the Fabi brothers and Patrese) were mainly there to please Parmalat. Patrese surely was the quickest of Piquet's team mates at Brabham, but he will be able to tell you a few tales of how he was kept on a chain when he was able to challenge Piquet. Monza 1983 is a good example. When he moved to Williams, Piquet demanded number 1 status, which is why he fell out with the team when Mansell proved as quick and often quicker.

[Victor_RO]

Piquet neverwanted a teammate that could be a challenge to him speedwise.
Look at the list of his teammates. The only decent ones he had were Lauda in his first year (now that wasn't strange) and Mansell at Williams.
Every other teammate he had otherwise were lap dogs.
Fransois Hesnault as the ultimate approval of that.


Henri

Probably the ultimate proof of this were Nelson's last 5 F1 races, when Schumacher joined the team. In Schuey's biography it is mentioned that he attempted not to share anything with the newcomer, probably to preserve what speed advantage he thought he had, but when the laptimes were on the board, the writing was definitely on the wall. Proof of Piquet getting rattled and overdriving was a crash in qualifying at Monza while he attempted to beat his new team-mate's time. (crash seen in the 1991 Season Review)

[Formula Once]

Mind you, I always wondered how much the rest of Nelson's career was affected by his horrific practice crash at Imola in 1987. As I understand it, he was OK physically, but the impact was so heavy that apparently his 'biological clock' was damaged dramatically for months and that he had trouble sleeping during the night while feeling tired during the day.

[B Squared]

Rebaque did fairly well in CART in either 81 or 82....

henri

Well, he did luck into a win at Road America @ Elkhart Lake, WI in 1982. That said, he was in position to capitalize on the situation. Hector was Danny Sullivan's teammate at the Forsythe team running an 82C March- Cosworth. Besides the win (in which he led 1 lap, his only of the season. Al Unser ran out of fuel on the last lap) his finishes in his six races were 13th at Atlanta - 13th at Indianapolis - 18th at Cleveland - 25th at Michigan - 20th at Riverside.

His win failed to secure his future.

Brian

[Henri Greuter]

Well, he did luck into a win at Road America @ Elkhart Lake, WI in 1982. That said, he was in position to capitalize on the situation. Hector was Danny Sullivan's teammate at the Forsythe team running an 82C March- Cosworth. Besides the win (in which he led 1 lap, his only of the season. Al Unser ran out of fuel on the last lap) his finishes in his six races were 13th at Atlanta - 13th at Indianapolis - 18th at Cleveland - 25th at Michigan - 20th at Riverside.

His win failed to secure his future.

Brian

OK, not as good as I thought he was after all. One lucky win.

On the other hand, he at least has a lucky winn, there are a number of drivers out with a number of decent scores that deserved to win a major race yet never got one.

henri

[D-Type]

Didn't Rebaque retire immediately after his single CART win? Effectively quitting after the peak event of his otherwise undistinguished career.

[B Squared]

Didn't Rebaque retire immediately after his single CART win? Effectively quitting after the peak event of his otherwise undistinguished career.

While I don't know about his later activities (if any) in racing - I think he had a big enough testing accident at The Milwaukee Mile the week following Road America that he re-evaluated his IndyCar future and did walk away from that formula.

Brian

[brabhamBT19]

havent we had a thread here on TNF not so long ago about 1983 race of champions which was Rebaque's last appearance in major motorrace. It means he didnt retire immediately after RA win in 1982, as it was some 8 months later

Edited by brabhamBT19, 10 July 2009 - 12:43.

[RA Historian]

Well, he did luck into a win at Road America @ Elkhart Lake, WI in 1982. That said, he was in position to capitalize on the situation. Hector was Danny Sullivan's teammate at the Forsythe team running an 82C March- Cosworth. Besides the win (in which he led 1 lap, his only of the season. Al Unser ran out of fuel on the last lap) his finishes in his six races were 13th at Atlanta - 13th at Indianapolis - 18th at Cleveland - 25th at Michigan - 20th at Riverside.

His win failed to secure his future.

Brian

Brian is quite right. Amazingly enough, that win at Road America in September, 1982, was not only his first and only CART win, but it was his last ever CART race! Never drove another. He did have a go the next spring at Brands Hatch for the Race of Champions, as mentioned.
Tom