13 replies to this topic

[subh]

There is a Johnny Cecotto thread elsewhere, mostly about his car racing years, but I wanted to ask the bike racing guys about his 500cc Grand Prix career. He had most success in 350cc and 750cc racing, of course, as well as a couple of 250cc wins. But how good was he on a 500, and why is it that he was never quite a title contender in that class? He only had one points finish in 1975/76, but that was a second place at the beginning of only his second GP season. However, I don’t think he went into the 500s full time until 1977. His best couple of 500 seasons followed, with three race wins, and it looks like he could have challenged Barry Sheene in ’77 if he had managed a full season. I think he had the same works Yamaha support as Kenny Roberts in 1978, but was not that close to Roberts and Sheene in the points. Then in 1979/80 he doesn’t seem to have been a real contender. What is the story here?



Here we go: I have compiled the motorcycle stats on Cecotto, top six results in world championship racing, 1975-80. All machinery: Yamaha. I don’t have all the figures for pole positions and fastest laps:



Edits: Cecotto was only entered by Yamaha Motor Co. for 500 GPs in 1977-79. He was back with Venemotos in 1980. The season he missed several races was 1977, because of a multiple rider accident in the Austrian 350cc race (when Hans Stadelmann was killed).

PS: The Yamaha picture above has been doctored, as he only raced number 4 in 1979.

(most of the above taken from a couple of my other posts elsewhere, but still worth getting your opinions.)

[picblanc]

#4 in 1978 too.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

[Hasselhoff]

Up to '77 he took the GP world by storm, as we know. At the start of '77 he was badly injured in that crash at the Austrian GP which effectively ruined '77 for him. He for some reason had a lot of crashes on the 500 yet was a weapon on the 750. I guess his confidence on the 500 was destroyed as he just kept falling off the thing even though he was quick enough when he stayed on it. On the 500 he had 27 starts for 12 pole positions.....not bad. Injuries as we know effectively ended his motorcycle career and '79 and '80 were basically just a struggle to stay fit. Thankfully he was smart enough to make the switch to 4 wheels while still in one piece. Sound about right anyone?

[Mats Karlsson]

Up to '77 he took the GP world by storm, as we know. At the start of '77 he was badly injured in that crash at the Austrian GP which effectively ruined '77 for him. He for some reason had a lot of crashes on the 500 yet was a weapon on the 750. I guess his confidence on the 500 was destroyed as he just kept falling off the thing even though he was quick enough when he stayed on it. On the 500 he had 27 starts for 12 pole positions.....not bad. Injuries as we know effectively ended his motorcycle career and '79 and '80 were basically just a struggle to stay fit. Thankfully he was smart enough to make the switch to 4 wheels while still in one piece. Sound about right anyone?

"Thankfully he was smart enough to make the switch to 4 wheels while still in one piece" didn't his car racing career come to an end after a bad crash on 4 wheels...........badly broken legs/feet.......worse that any of his two wheel accidents....just wondering.........:-(...........anyways..........great racer and a great career on both 2 and 4 wheels.......

Edited by Mats Karlsson, 30 June 2009 - 02:23.

[HEMEYLA]

Johnny Cecotto website by John Damen .......... Click

Edited by HEMEYLA, 30 June 2009 - 02:41.

[picblanc]

"Thankfully he was smart enough to make the switch to 4 wheels while still in one piece" didn't his car racing career come to an end after a bad crash on 4 wheels...........badly broken legs/feet.......worse that any of his two wheel accidents....just wondering.........:-(...........anyways..........great racer and a great career on both 2 and 4 wheels.......

Yes an F1 Toleman I think possibly at Brands Hatch?

[Rennmax]

Yes an F1 Toleman I think possibly at Brands Hatch?

This crash ended his F1 career but he continued racing touring cars till 2003.

[stuavant]

This crash ended his F1 career but he continued racing touring cars till 2003.

My race memories of him were always off a troubled person. IIRC he had contacts and he always had problems with his eyes. There was spectulation on his health and so on and really he was hard to catagorise as a racer in realtaion to what had come before him. I replaced him at Diemme in 1976 but was nothing like as good much to the Italian's dismay!
We meet up later when he ran our companies BMW 635 at Bathurst and whilst I did'nt bother him it was good to see him punt the car around at a great pace..

[mfd]

I think the '79 promo card has a photo of the 1978 bike? Pssst

Edited by mfd, 02 July 2009 - 09:56.

[mfd]

Yes an F1 Toleman I think possibly at Brands Hatch?

1984 Team mate to A.Senna at Toleman...accident was early on in practice. Green track, 1000hp, Dingle Dell + Armco = ouch
He was Euro F2 champion in 82 (think) followed by a year in F1 with Theodore-Ensign in 83.

Edited by mfd, 02 July 2009 - 10:06.

[ex Rhodie racer]

1984 Team mate to A.Senna at Toleman...accident was early on in practice. Green track, 1000hp, Dingle Dell + Armco = ouch
He was Euro F2 champion in 82 (think) followed by a year in F1 with Theodore-Ensign in 83.

Didn´t Fabi (his teammate) pip him for the F2 euro title?
Superb man on 2 wheels though. I rated him right up there with the best, but as Stu says, he was a bit fragile, both metally and physically, it would appear.
His finest race was probably when he pipped Kenny Roberts in the Assen 500 race in 1978 (?).
Awesome qualifier with so many pole positions.
A top man anyhow.

[mfd]

Didn´t Fabi (his teammate) pip him for the F2 euro title?A top man anyhow.

You're right Rhodie. They had the same points at the end, but on dropped scores Cecotto was a point adrift

[GD66]

Without doubt, Johnny was quick !! But poles didn't transpire into wins, and in spite of somewhat less than stellar form, Sheeney took it upon himself to spruik Johnny's talents from the rooftops...initially, probably a good call, but after a long period where Johnny had failed to deliver, the message started to weaken. Still and all, he did seem to have the talent when inspired, and it was inspirational to see him kick on into F1, and beyond...a good soldier...

[picblanc]

On the 750 he was mustard!! this at Silverstone in 1975, he won the 1st leg of 750 race but had machine problems for the 2nd race & Sheene let him ride his spare Texaco Heron TR750 Suzuki, sadly no pics of that, I only could do the Saturday races. Caused quite a rumpus at the time!! (him on the Suzuki, not me only doing the Saturday!!)

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Edited by picblanc, 03 July 2009 - 16:24.